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[Assessment 1632] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Bower, Carol
cbower at necc.mass.eduTue Feb 3 18:37:13 EST 2009
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We, at SABES, have been working diligently to improve the teaching of
math to adult learners and while I am far from an expert on math, I have
learned a great deal from our math leaders regarding the usefulness of
learning algebra. While on the surface it may appear that learning
algebra is unnecessary in order to succeed in post-secondary education
and in life, I have learned from our Math Leaders that in learning how
to do algebra, we actually are learning algebraic thinking, which is a
critical thinking and problem solving skill needed to succeed, not only
in college, but in life. My non-expert take on this is that algebraic
thinking will enable you work with a few unknown variables to figure out
what might happen if x or y occurs. So beyond getting a GED and passing
the Accuplacer, algebra serves a very important function.
On algebraic thinking:
http://www.learner.org/courses/learningmath/algebra/session1/part_a/inde
x.html
Carol
Carol Bower
Director, Northeast SABES
Northern Essex Community College
45 Franklin Street
Lawrence, MA 01840
978-738-7301
"SABES: Training Leaders in Adult Basic Education"
For more information on the System for Adult Basic Education Support
(SABES) please go to: sabes.org/northeast
For information on upcoming SABES offerings or to register for events
please go to: calendar.sabes.org/northeast
"If you're walking down the right path and you're willing to keep
walking, eventually you'll make progress." ~ Barack Obama
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:14 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 8
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Assessment digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. [Assessment 1598] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
(Mechem, Thompson)
2. [Assessment 1599] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
(Ellithorpe, Kathy)
3. [Assessment 1600] Re: Transition models (Donna Chambers)
4. [Assessment 1601] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 2 --
Tiered Instruction (Phyllis Bonneau)
5. [Assessment 1602] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1--
Transitions: Resources, Obstacles, Etc. (Stephanie Moran)
6. [Assessment 1603] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2 (Borge, Toni)
7. [Assessment 1604] Re: Transition models (Marie Cora)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:01:10 -0500
From: "Mechem, Thompson" <tmechem at doe.mass.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1598] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<29CFEE83EDF92741BF0ED3F5D9BC7E87FE753E at exchange2.doe.mass.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
And to support you, Marie, I come back to my pet obsession of the
moment, which is the ACCUPLACER: without sound algebra skills, GED grads
are doomed to the abyss of developmental math courses and/or an often
futile struggle with college-level math. Other states with different
college placement tests have the exact same problem. So lament it or
not, algebra is the world our students must be able to navigate through
to access post-secondary education and training.
Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
781-338-6621
"GED to Ph.D."
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1596] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Hi Kathy, Roger, and everyone,
While I also am math challenged, and I feel competent in my daily math
skills, I guess I would argue that all this depends entirely on the
context and the needs of the student. There are an awful lot of careers
and jobs that depend on the individual having a good command of higher
order math, and there are a lot of people interested in this type of
math (some who do not even realize it).
But perhaps this is what you are saying - that maybe if the curriculum
were better constructed, like a ladder say, then the people who do want
to pursue math will, and in greater numbers.
Is that what you're saying?
Thanks,
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ellithorpe, Kathy
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:53 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1578] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Bravo, Roger. Just put me in the shootong line. I have made it very
well thank you without the knowledge of math beyond basic algebra. I
probably did have the knowledge at one time-but as the old saying
goes..."use it or lose it" In most daily lives higher order math is
just not necessary. Problem IS with the curriculm-not the learners...
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of nqr at mac.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:35 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1577] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Tom is, as usual, correct. My concern is that some students could and
should be able to gain a certificate or, perhaps, even an Associate's
without a knowledge of algebra.
I have a Ph D and slogged through three grad course in statistics.
However, if you put a gun to my head and ordered me to solve an equation
with two unknowns I would tell you to shoot me.
I was a Tenured Full Professor at the University of Nebraska as well
managed world-wide customer research for IBM without knowing how to
solve that sort of equation.
Perhaps, the problem is with the curriculum and not the learners.
Roger Berg
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com
On Tuesday, February 03, 2009, at 09:56AM, "Mechem, Thompson"
<tmechem at doe.mass.edu> wrote:
>Stephanie, et al.---
>
>In our state we also find that the low academic skill level of GED
diploma recipients is, if not the biggest barrier to post-secondary
education, at least a very major one. A huge majority of GED students
end up in college developmental courses from which they never emerge.
The unindicted co-conspirator in all this is the ACCUPLACER, the
placement test that all applicants to Massachusetts state colleges must
take. Our data shows that while GED grads do very well on the reading
part of the ACCUPLACER and quite well on the Writing in terms of
avoiding developmental courses, on the the Math they do very, very
poorly. There is no correlation between GED math and ACCUPLACER/college
Algebra: a person can get an 800 on the GED math test and still test
into developmental math at a community college. I am working with GED
math teachers around Massachusetts to develop a GED curriculum that will
allow students to pass the GED test with all due speed and also pass the
ACCUPLACER math t!
est.
>
>Tom Mechem
>GED State Chief Examiner
>Department of Elementary & Secondary Education Commonwealth of
>Massachusetts
>781-338-6621
>"GED to Ph.D."
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Stephanie Moran
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
>To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
>Subject: [Assessment 1563] Reply to Questions 1 and 2
>
>
>
>1. The low skill level of many students trying to transition
from GED to college may be the biggest barrier. We are part of the SUN
grant/College Connection grant here in Colorado, so we are in the middle
of doing exactly this-working in an intensive 8-week program that is
attempting to help our GED grads accelerate their skill levels in
reading, writing, math, study skills, critical thinking-and learn how to
"do college" as well as explore career options. Our students are
dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more sophisticated skills. One of
our grant goals is to help them successfully pass through their current
remedial course, and if they are at the 030 or 060 level, to perhaps
skip over the next one into the higher 060/090 or into credit-bearing
courses altogether.
>
>--Study skills of students-many GED students are episodic in their
attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score, but college demands
consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills that may be unfamiliar
if not downright foreign to GED grads.
>
>--Another barrier is that some teachers perceive their primary role as
helping students earn the GED and although such teachers often support
post-GED studies, they don't want to push students or focus on
higher-level skills. This creates a de facto tracking system, and it may
be that centers will need to formalize such tracking so that students
who know they want to go on to post-GED studies can work with those
teachers.
>
>2. Resources: Having GED teachers who also teach as adjuncts for
community colleges is hugely helpful because we understand both systems
and what is required for a student to be successful in a college
environment; we also can tutor and advocate in a way that teachers who
teach at only one level may not be able or willing to do as effectively.
>
>--THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us time and funding to
develop curriculum, to work in close collaboration with other
teacher/team members, and to introduce this approach to the community
colleges.
>
>
>
>Stephanie Moran
>
>Durango, CO
>
>
>
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>On Behalf Of Marie Cora
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:52 AM
>To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>Subject: [Assessment 1557] Transitions Discussion begins today!
>
>
>
>Good morning, afternoon and evening to you all.
>
>
>
>Today begins our week-long discussion on Transitions in Adult
Education.
>
>
>
>For full information on this discussion, go to:
>
>
>
>http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/09transitions.html
>
>
>
>I have some questions for subscribers:
>
>
>
>1. What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for your program when
trying to successfully transition adult students from one education
level to another, or from education to the workforce? What does your
program try to do about this?
>
>
>
>2. What resources have you found helpful when trying to successfully
transition a student? How have they been helpful?
>
>
>
>3. Please comment on the Introduction and/or Recommended Preparations
for this Discussion, found at the announcement URL above.
>
>
>
>Please post your questions and share your experiences now.
>
>
>
>Thanks!!
>
>
>
>Marie Cora
>
>Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------
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Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to kathye at monte.k12.co.us
-------------------------------
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Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
-------------------------------
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to tmechem at doe.mass.edu
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:06:41 -0700
From: "Ellithorpe, Kathy" <KathyE at monte.k12.co.us>
Subject: [Assessment 1599] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<7A7D7C482D76B04E873747A9621D8F4603325FD4 at post.monte.k12.co.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Marie-Thanks you so much for your comments. After a 23 year teaching
career at all grade levels I do know that math as a whole is the subject
we seem to struggle with the most. As an adult educator for the past 8
years, I know that math is the one subject that my students actually
fear. Whether this comes from past experience, i.e. failure , or just
plain old math anxiety - the one subject that adult learners almost
always need the most help with is math. We start at the bottom of the
ladder with them. My approach is actually one using the ladder
metaphore. "If you miss a step on the ladder it's difficult almost
impossible to make it to the next level."
As an educator (not a math major) I do wonder just how much math is
enough math. Just where do we draw the line as far as math education
goes in most career education? Is it valid to assume that a general
business major needs as much math as an engineer? Or even the same kind
of math? If a student learns that kind of math and does not use it on a
regular basis, will he/she lose what was learned? It has been my
experience that as adults we retain the kind of math that we use the
most.
Do we need to construct curriculum to address careers?
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 12:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1596] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Hi Kathy, Roger, and everyone,
While I also am math challenged, and I feel competent in my daily math
skills, I guess I would argue that all this depends entirely on the
context and the needs of the student. There are an awful lot of careers
and jobs that depend on the individual having a good command of higher
order math, and there are a lot of people interested in this type of
math (some who do not even realize it).
But perhaps this is what you are saying - that maybe if the curriculum
were better constructed, like a ladder say, then the people who do want
to pursue math will, and in greater numbers.
Is that what you're saying?
Thanks,
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ellithorpe, Kathy
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:53 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1578] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Bravo, Roger. Just put me in the shootong line. I have made it very
well thank you without the knowledge of math beyond basic algebra. I
probably did have the knowledge at one time-but as the old saying
goes..."use it or lose it" In most daily lives higher order math is
just not necessary. Problem IS with the curriculm-not the learners...
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of nqr at mac.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:35 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1577] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Tom is, as usual, correct. My concern is that some students could and
should be able to gain a certificate or, perhaps, even an Associate's
without a knowledge of algebra.
I have a Ph D and slogged through three grad course in statistics.
However, if you put a gun to my head and ordered me to solve an equation
with two unknowns I would tell you to shoot me.
I was a Tenured Full Professor at the University of Nebraska as well
managed world-wide customer research for IBM without knowing how to
solve that sort of equation.
Perhaps, the problem is with the curriculum and not the learners.
Roger Berg
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com
On Tuesday, February 03, 2009, at 09:56AM, "Mechem, Thompson"
<tmechem at doe.mass.edu> wrote:
>Stephanie, et al.---
>
>In our state we also find that the low academic skill level of GED
diploma recipients is, if not the biggest barrier to post-secondary
education, at least a very major one. A huge majority of GED students
end up in college developmental courses from which they never emerge.
The unindicted co-conspirator in all this is the ACCUPLACER, the
placement test that all applicants to Massachusetts state colleges must
take. Our data shows that while GED grads do very well on the reading
part of the ACCUPLACER and quite well on the Writing in terms of
avoiding developmental courses, on the the Math they do very, very
poorly. There is no correlation between GED math and ACCUPLACER/college
Algebra: a person can get an 800 on the GED math test and still test
into developmental math at a community college. I am working with GED
math teachers around Massachusetts to develop a GED curriculum that will
allow students to pass the GED test with all due speed and also pass the
ACCUPLACER math t!
est.
>
>Tom Mechem
>GED State Chief Examiner
>Department of Elementary & Secondary Education Commonwealth of
>Massachusetts
>781-338-6621
>"GED to Ph.D."
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
>[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Stephanie Moran
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
>To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
>Subject: [Assessment 1563] Reply to Questions 1 and 2
>
>
>
>1. The low skill level of many students trying to transition
from GED to college may be the biggest barrier. We are part of the SUN
grant/College Connection grant here in Colorado, so we are in the middle
of doing exactly this-working in an intensive 8-week program that is
attempting to help our GED grads accelerate their skill levels in
reading, writing, math, study skills, critical thinking-and learn how to
"do college" as well as explore career options. Our students are
dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more sophisticated skills. One of
our grant goals is to help them successfully pass through their current
remedial course, and if they are at the 030 or 060 level, to perhaps
skip over the next one into the higher 060/090 or into credit-bearing
courses altogether.
>
>--Study skills of students-many GED students are episodic in their
attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score, but college demands
consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills that may be unfamiliar
if not downright foreign to GED grads.
>
>--Another barrier is that some teachers perceive their primary role as
helping students earn the GED and although such teachers often support
post-GED studies, they don't want to push students or focus on
higher-level skills. This creates a de facto tracking system, and it may
be that centers will need to formalize such tracking so that students
who know they want to go on to post-GED studies can work with those
teachers.
>
>2. Resources: Having GED teachers who also teach as adjuncts for
community colleges is hugely helpful because we understand both systems
and what is required for a student to be successful in a college
environment; we also can tutor and advocate in a way that teachers who
teach at only one level may not be able or willing to do as effectively.
>
>--THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us time and funding to
develop curriculum, to work in close collaboration with other
teacher/team members, and to introduce this approach to the community
colleges.
>
>
>
>Stephanie Moran
>
>Durango, CO
>
>
>
>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
>On Behalf Of Marie Cora
>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:52 AM
>To: Assessment at nifl.gov
>Subject: [Assessment 1557] Transitions Discussion begins today!
>
>
>
>Good morning, afternoon and evening to you all.
>
>
>
>Today begins our week-long discussion on Transitions in Adult
Education.
>
>
>
>For full information on this discussion, go to:
>
>
>
>http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/09transitions.html
>
>
>
>I have some questions for subscribers:
>
>
>
>1. What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for your program when
trying to successfully transition adult students from one education
level to another, or from education to the workforce? What does your
program try to do about this?
>
>
>
>2. What resources have you found helpful when trying to successfully
transition a student? How have they been helpful?
>
>
>
>3. Please comment on the Introduction and/or Recommended Preparations
for this Discussion, found at the announcement URL above.
>
>
>
>Please post your questions and share your experiences now.
>
>
>
>Thanks!!
>
>
>
>Marie Cora
>
>Assessment Discussion List Moderator
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to kathye at monte.k12.co.us
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com
-------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Assessment mailing list
Assessment at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment
Email delivered to kathye at monte.k12.co.us
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:21:18 -0500
From: "Donna Chambers" <Donnaedp at cox.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1600] Re: Transition models
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <FF1532D48F664150BB5D6F04A3C0CC3C at donna001>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
David,
Funny you should ask. Here in RI we are in the planning stages of
designing an integrated model for TTC and External Diploma Program
(EDP). Participants will be earning a high school diploma along the
pathway to preparing for college through our Pawtucket TTC program.
These two programs have been working along side each other, but
exclusively We require the learner to complete the EDP before
participating in TTC. In an effort to be more efficient in preparing
the learners for academic college readiness, we will integrate the
academic part of the TTC with the demonstration of skills needed to
earn the high school diploma. The academic secondary reading, writing,
math, and metacognitive skills need to be demonstrated (competency-based
assessment) for EDP will prepare the participants to be college ready.
Since EDP uses all the components of competency-based assessment,
learners are more motivated to learn what is needed to learn and see
immediate results of the learning.
(As an aside, let me say, this approach works particularly well with
ELL since it is not a timed test and the learning is scaffolded) They
will have earned a high school diploma and completed TTC at the same
time.
Since this pilot will combine both programs we already know we need to
be creative in determining how much actual time is required to be in
class, and at the same time we do not want to cut corners for either
program. Many of our participants' schedules do not allow them to spend
more than about eight hours in class and for some this is even too much.
It is expected that most participants will need to remediate their basic
academic skills. With all this in mind, we know it will require a
blending of online self-study with face-to-face class instruction and
assessment time.
This is still in the planning stages, but since we have already been
working with the processes of these two programs, I am very optimistic
about the results. I believe we will end up with an effective model
combining high school completion and transtions to college.
Donna Chambers
RI EDP Coordinator
---- Original Message -----
From: David J. Rosen
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:43 AM
Subject: [Assessment 1581] Transition models
Assessment Colleagues,
I have some questions for the guest experts and for others who work in
transition from adult secondary (GED/ADP/EDP) to post-secondary
education:
1) what is the range of models of current transition programs? Are
they all separate transition classes? Are some ASE/GED classes that are
beefed up with transition content? Does anyone use a blend of online
instruction and face-to--face mentoring (for example 2- 3 hours/week of
one-on-one or small group mentoring accomianied by 6-10 hours a week of
online transition self-study)? Does anyone use a pure distance learning
transition model? Are there other models?
2) Given the thin resources available to support separate transition
classes, how can adult secondary education programs add an affordable
transition component? What strategies are you thinking of?
3) I have been thinking about a design for a blended transition model
-- face-to-face mentoring in combination with a highly-structured online
transitions curriculum. How does that idea strike you? Does it already
exist someplace? Is anyone using it now? How is it working?
Thanks.
David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:22:27 -0500
From: "Phyllis Bonneau" <PBonneau at eastconn.org>
Subject: [Assessment 1601] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 2 --
Tiered Instruction
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<F6FE03F9773D4E4F84E782706C30A3D301787894 at ecexch01.eastconn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Charlene-
I'm curious what regs your state has for those that wish to take the GED
test. Can students "just" sign up to test and bypass your system
without preparation? 99-100% pass rate is extraordinary and the fact
that you have a track for GED prep which includes college prep is
enviable!
Phyllis Bonneau
Regional Coordinator
EASTCONN Adult Services
________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Charlene Salazar
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:24 PM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1595] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41,Issue 2 --
Tiered Instruction
Dear All -
Here at the Del Mar College Department of GED Instruction all students
must be reading at the 7th grade level or higher. We are part of a CO-OP
that implements tiered instruction. The Adult Learning Center focusses
on students reading between the 4th and 6th grade level. The Corpus
Christi Literacy Council focusses on students with a 3rd grade reading
level and below. During our 12 hour mandatory orientation all students
are given a Locater Test (1st day) and TABE Test (2nd day). The two
exams contain a Reading section, Math (math computation/applied math),
and Language Arts. The exams are then given to our test assessor who
determines the academic level each student is functioning at. All
students reading at the 7th grade level or above are allowed to register
in our program and the remaining students are divided among the CO-OP
members that can specifically meet their needs.
The Del Mar College Department of GED Instruction no longer serves ESL
students. However, we do have some students that at one time were ESL
students and have remained with us over time and are functioning as well
or even better than some of our English speaking students. In fact,
several have transitioned into college level courses at DMC. There is an
ESOL Program at DMC that specifically serves ESOL students and
eventually mainstreams with the rest of the student body.
Our classes are divided into two tracks; Track II and Track III. Both
classes teach the same material needed for the GED exam, but the Track
III class is taught at a faster pace and students are introduced to
college level material.
We have developmental labs, expanded academic classes, and a Friday only
math lab which run outside of our usual class schedule(s), which allow
students to get extra instruction.
Our current pass rate for first time test takers is between 99% and 100%
and our average test scores are among the highest in the United States.
Last year 72% of our student body transitioned from our GED program and
into college.
Charlene Salazar
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 14:04:02 -0700
From: "Stephanie Moran" <stephanie at durangoaec.org>
Subject: [Assessment 1602] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1--
Transitions: Resources, Obstacles, Etc.
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <010b01c98642$f1cae7e0$d560b7a0$@org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Dear Ann and All,
It's inconceivable to me that we would ask students to take tests and
wait
for their scores for any extended period of time-no question that
motivation
would fall dramatically. Search other areas where you can cut costs, or
go
to an understanding donor for funding specific to this expense since
getting
test results is so crucial to keeping a student's motivation strong
(rarely
do our students fail a test and they almost always do quite well in the
sense of being pleased with their scores).
As others have pointed out, one of our greatest barriers is episodic
attendance, and if we were to delay test results, I am sure that
attendance
would become even spottier.
Stephanie Moran
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On
Behalf Of Coyle, Av
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:47 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1566] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1--
Transitions: Resources, Obstacles, Etc.
Dear Maria,
Thank you for describing your very insightful and sensitive approach to
the
power of motivation and support.
I'm interested in others' experience and views, and perhaps relevant
research and data, on the motivational effect of prompt feedback of
assessment results and the discouraging effect of delayed feedback I
teach
GED Distance Learning in a California adult school with a very tight
budget,
and one of our ways of saving money is to send in a student's GED
reading,
social studies and science tests together for scoring, not singly as the
student takes them. This means that a student might start out taking
the
reading test, then do preparation in science and take that one, and
finally
prepare for the social studies test and take that one. Only then are
the
students' 3 tests sent off for scoring. The rationale is that this
saves on
the cost of answer sheets, postage, fees and handling. The result is
that a
student might wait several weeks or a month or even several months
before
getting any results at all.
While I have regretted this practice, I now have subjective and
anecdotal
evidence of the very positive motivational effect of feedback. In
December
of 2008 we were required to send in all GED tests for the year for
scoring,
whether or not a student had taken the "big three." Every one of my
students who received results in January was enormously happy and
motivated
to realize that s/he had received passing scores. Already, in less than
a
month, I observe renewed commitment and perseverance on the part of
those
students who now realize that they have passed one or two tests, and
know
that they CAN pass others. Receiving those passing scores, sometimes
after
a wait of several months, has been a major incentive to students to keep
their appointments and persevere in their GED preparation.
As I prepare to lobby for sending in students' tests for
scoringindividually
as they take them rather than waiting until they taken the 3, even if it
means a slightly increased fee, I would be grateful for your input on
this
topic.
Ann Veronica Coyle
Watsonville/Aptos Adult Education
294 Green Valley Road
Watsonville, California 95076
av_coyle at pvusd.net
831-786-2160
831-786-2100, Ext. 2528
831-786-2193 FAX
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On
Behalf Of Charlene Salazar
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:14 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1561] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 41, Issue 1--
Transitions: Resources, Obstacles, Etc.
Maria -
I went over your questions for the subscribers and I hope that the
information that I provide you with will help. I am the Transitions
Liaison
for the Del Mar College Department of GED Instruction. When I was hired
for
this position there were no guidelines. I was given the opportunity to
design it in any fashion that I wished just as long as the job was
successful and it got done. As a former GED graduate, I thought to
myself
what were the things that helped me move into post-secondary education.
The
first 2 things were motivation and support.
When students step into a different educational arena it can be very
intimidating for them; scary. Fear can make students turn and run in a
different direction. A direction that will often not include a college
education. So I told myself that when I met with a student, I was going
to
do everything in my power to motivate, support, and encourage these
students. I try to make my students feel comfortable and confident and I
do
that by informing them of my educational journey of GED student to
college
graduate. I don't sugar coat anything and let them know that it will be
tough and challenging, but so very rewarding in the end.
Changing a student's "I can't" mind set to an "I can" allows them to
start
peeling away the layers of fears they have developed. I tell my students
that there is no way they can move forward if they have one foot stuck
in
the past. Whatever it was that led them to this GED program doesn't
matter
anymore. They are here to get a GED, enter college, and/ or workforce
and
they must focus on the here and now.
Another thing that works for me is making sure all our students know who
I
am. I teach new student orientation, attend awards assemblies, do
classroom
visits, and eat lunch with them whenever my schedule permits. So by the
time
a student comes in for a transitioning appointment, they already know me
and
feel comfortable talking to me.
Knowledge is my best resource. I must be knowledgeable about everything
the
transtioner is going to have to deal with:
1. Knowing all the key people in every department on campus(s)
2. College Majors - does Del Mar College have associate and certificate
programs in the students field of interest
3. Admissions requirements and placement tests such as the THEA and
COMPASS
4. Tuition Costs
5. Financial Aid - What is it and how do I apply for it?
7. College Advising - Placement test scores and will the student have to
enroll in remedial courses, degree plans and class schedules.
8. Registration
Availability is also key. I have an open door policy and make myself
available to all our students day or night. For example: If a student is
trying to register and doesn't know where to go or who to talk to, they
can
call me on their cell phones and I will walk them through the whole
process
over the phone. You have to let your students know that you care and you
are
there.
If you ahve any other questions, please send them my way.
Charlene Salazar
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:05:06 -0500
From: "Borge, Toni" <tborge at bhcc.mass.edu>
Subject: [Assessment 1603] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<25C5446CAEEA054E8087E673DF6C1F59026B673E at mercury.bhcc.dom>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Writing from Bunker Hill Community College Boston one of the 5 colleges
profiled in Torchlights in ESL; I can confirm that the majority of GED
and ESOL students place into developmental math. That said, 90% of all
students who enroll in community colleges in Massachusetts place into
at least one developmental course. And this is the trend nationwide.
>From my experience there are a number of factors that play into
developmental placement; one that Tom mentioned is the lack of alignment
between the Massachusetts Adult Curriculum Frameworks and community
college math or English curriculum - and between Adult Ed ESOL and
community college ESOL curriculum also. It also should be noted a large
number of high school graduates who pass the MCAS - Massachusetts state
K-12 competency test also test into developmental classes, again lack of
alignment between the secondary education and community college
curriculum is a factor. Steps are being taken to address this issue.
Another factor is test taking skills. Students need to learn how to
take a computerized test. The test taking strategies we learned about
skipping the questions you know and then go back or review the
questions after you have completed the test can't be done on a
computerized test. Also many students do not take the time to read the
directions carefully. You can't go back and correct on a computerized
test.
Instead of thinking how to get students to pass Accuplacer, I would
recommend the focus should be on what math and English academic skills
that are required to place into college level classes and adapt the
curriculum to address these deficiencies.
Toni
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Mechem, Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1574] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
Stephanie, et al.---
In our state we also find that the low academic skill level of GED
diploma recipients is, if not the biggest barrier to post-secondary
education, at least a very major one. A huge majority of GED students
end up in college developmental courses from which they never emerge.
The unindicted co-conspirator in all this is the ACCUPLACER, the
placement test that all applicants to Massachusetts state colleges must
take. Our data shows that while GED grads do very well on the reading
part of the ACCUPLACER and quite well on the Writing in terms of
avoiding developmental courses, on the the Math they do very, very
poorly. There is no correlation between GED math and ACCUPLACER/college
Algebra: a person can get an 800 on the GED math test and still test
into developmental math at a community college. I am working with GED
math teachers around Massachusetts to develop a GED curriculum that will
allow students to pass the GED test with all due speed and also pass the
ACCUPLACER math test.
Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
781-338-6621
"GED to Ph.D."
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Stephanie Moran
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1563] Reply to Questions 1 and 2
1. The low skill level of many students trying to
transition from GED to college may be the biggest barrier. We are part
of the SUN grant/College Connection grant here in Colorado, so we are in
the middle of doing exactly this-working in an intensive 8-week program
that is attempting to help our GED grads accelerate their skill levels
in reading, writing, math, study skills, critical thinking-and learn how
to "do college" as well as explore career options. Our students are
dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more sophisticated skills. One of
our grant goals is to help them successfully pass through their current
remedial course, and if they are at the 030 or 060 level, to perhaps
skip over the next one into the higher 060/090 or into credit-bearing
courses altogether.
--Study skills of students-many GED students are episodic in
their attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score, but college
demands consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills that may be
unfamiliar if not downright foreign to GED grads.
--Another barrier is that some teachers perceive their primary
role as helping students earn the GED and although such teachers often
support post-GED studies, they don't want to push students or focus on
higher-level skills. This creates a de facto tracking system, and it may
be that centers will need to formalize such tracking so that students
who know they want to go on to post-GED studies can work with those
teachers.
2. Resources: Having GED teachers who also teach as adjuncts
for community colleges is hugely helpful because we understand both
systems and what is required for a student to be successful in a college
environment; we also can tutor and advocate in a way that teachers who
teach at only one level may not be able or willing to do as effectively.
--THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us time and
funding to develop curriculum, to work in close collaboration with other
teacher/team members, and to introduce this approach to the community
colleges.
Stephanie Moran
Durango, CO
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:52 AM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1557] Transitions Discussion begins today!
Good morning, afternoon and evening to you all.
Today begins our week-long discussion on Transitions in Adult
Education.
For full information on this discussion, go to:
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/09transitions.html
I have some questions for subscribers:
1. What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for your program
when trying to successfully transition adult students from one education
level to another, or from education to the workforce? What does your
program try to do about this?
2. What resources have you found helpful when trying to
successfully transition a student? How have they been helpful?
3. Please comment on the Introduction and/or Recommended
Preparations for this Discussion, found at the announcement URL above.
Please post your questions and share your experiences now.
Thanks!!
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 16:12:23 -0500
From: "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1604] Re: Transition models
To: "'The Assessment Discussion List'" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <3B42EAE03817404E84406CE169F554EE at litnow>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Toni - welcome! Bunker Hill Community College is another of the
programs profiled in the resource Torchlights that can be found in the
Recommended Preparations.
Glad to have you with us!
Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Borge, Toni
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 1:10 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1591] Re: Transition models
Hi,
I have been managing a transitions program based at a community college
for 9 years. Here a few suggestions/strategies that adult secondary
programs and even all ABE/ESOL adult programs can implement that do not
utilize large sums of money.
First, start at the beginning levels to help the students become
independent learners, it has been my experience that students become
overly dependent upon their teachers and staff at programs in giving
them the information. When they are in a transition class and are asked
to research topics, the students have not developed these skills. And
we know how to research and find information is a skill that is not just
academic but a life skill.
Next start early and talk about life beyond the GED either in post
secondary education or a technical trade.
Give homework. I found that the students were shocked to find out how
much homework is expected in college. But before you start giving
homework, discuss with the students time management strategies so they
can plan their study/homework time. The transitions teacher has the
students fill out a 24 hour clock of their daily activities and often it
is 30+ and that is before homework time is added in.
Provide longer reading passages. In college there is a lot of reading
expected and GED /ESOL students struggle because they have not yet
developed the reading muscle.
Toni
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of David J. Rosen
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:44 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1581] Transition models
Assessment Colleagues,
I have some questions for the guest experts and for others who work in
transition from adult secondary (GED/ADP/EDP) to post-secondary
education:
1) what is the range of models of current transition programs? Are they
all separate transition classes? Are some ASE/GED classes that are
beefed up with transition content? Does anyone use a blend of online
instruction and face-to--face mentoring (for example 2- 3 hours/week of
one-on-one or small group mentoring accomianied by 6-10 hours a week of
online transition self-study)? Does anyone use a pure distance learning
transition model? Are there other models?
2) Given the thin resources available to support separate transition
classes, how can adult secondary education programs add an affordable
transition component? What strategies are you thinking of?
3) I have been thinking about a design for a blended transition model --
face-to-face mentoring in combination with a highly-structured online
transitions curriculum. How does that idea strike you? Does it already
exist someplace? Is anyone using it now? How is it working?
Thanks.
David J. Rosen
djrosen at theworld.com
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