Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8B8a9719416; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3F603248.9020405@csulb.edu> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: Kevin Rocap <krocap@csulb.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9476] RE: Illiteracy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Status: O Content-Length: 33741 Lines: 1066
" What do you do as an adult with children of your own when you can't pass on the "family" language? I have run into this very situation. I cannot communicate with my relatives in another country in their language. I try so hard to make and keep contact but there are so many things I want to explain that I really can't. Tha language has been entirely lost in my family. entirely. I am so saddened by this situation. "How do they converse with the older generations?" They can't and I can't either very well. I "How is culture preserved when the language in which it was born is silenced? " This is really a very good and serious question. My question to all of you is , what should be a uniting factor in any country? If language will not unite us and Religion certainly will not unite us , Food will not unite us, Customs will not unite us because we all have our own , What will? What will happen when we begin to misunderstand one another because we cannot communicate well? Isn't that already happening? Should the country try to preserve anything of its culture? What should it be? Will we end up living in our own little ghettos, all speaking our own seperarte languages? OR, maybe the real question , instead should be, What makes a country??? Tanya Tweeton Adult ESOL Fort Lauderdale, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Varshna Narumanchi-Jackson" <varshna@grandecom.net> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:21 PM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9425] RE: IlliteracyYour point assumes that either the child or the family wants English to be the "first" language. What is so great about having developed oracy inyour"second"/"family" language when it isn't backed up by literacy? Who wants to be an adult whose understanding of her "second"/"family" language stopped at age 3? How do you converse with your parents, withyourgrandparents (as has been my experience), with aunts, uncles, and other relatives who are more comfortable speaking in the "family" language?Whatdo you do as an adult with children of your own when you can't pass on the "family" language? How do they converse with the older generations? How is culture preserved when the language in which it was born issilenced?on 9/5/03 12:51 PM, Susan Ryan at susanefl@hotmail.com wrote:The whole point is for a toddler age, English would be his firstlanguage!Although we have many languages spoken in the U.S., English is thedefininglanguage and children born into it should be first language speakers in English. The other lanuage (family language spoken) would be theirsecondlanguage. They will be bilingual in reverse of their parents'generation.SusanFrom: "kate.diggins" <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9421] RE: Illiteracy Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT) On the other hand, childen need a rich first language. Without that,therewould be a lack of cognitive "hooks", metaphorically speaking, on which to "hang" second language. ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Gustav Kocsis <gkocsis@sfccnm.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9418] RE: IlliteracyI so much agree. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Ryan [mailto:susanefl@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 8:02 AM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9417] RE: Illiteracy Sylvan, I found your information very interesting and surprising. Iwouldhave thought to start English with the toddlers class would be the best way to create English fluency rather than waiitng until they start school and come to it as a foreign language speaker. SusanFrom: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9401] RE: Illiteracy Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT) Thanks for this excellent post. It is certainly true that whenchildrendon't get good early education, they are at a disadvantage,regardlessofwhat language they are trying to learn in. In the Head Start programIworkwith, it's sometimes interesting to compare the immigrant kids withtheAnglo kids here. The problems we are addressing are somewhatdifferent,butwith all kids (and the adults in our Family Literacy Program), wefocusonliteracy in developmentally appropriate ways. With the Pre-K children we work with, language development needs tobeprimarily in the native language, gradually transitioning to moreEnglishas time goes on. The 4-year-old classroom incorporates more English thanthe3-year-old classroom. The Infant/Toddler classroom tries to be predominantly Spanish-speaking. A good solid grounding in native languagedevelopmentisthe best foundation for learning English once children start school. With Anglo kids, obviously literacy and language development areequallycritical, and sometimes just as difficult. We serve special needschildren,too, of course, with various diagnoses of speech and/or developmental delays, and that requires special creativity and techniques on thepartofthe teachers. We work with our Education Service District to get helpwiththat. In addition, many of those kids are dealing with homesituationsthatare absolutely horrendous -- drugs, abuse of all sorts, neglect, aswell asbasic illiteracy on several levels. All of that has to be addressedinsomefashion, or nothing will change in the life of that child. You canteachthem phonics all you want and send them off to kindergarten, and itwon'thelp much. With adults, no matter what language they speak, if they haven't hadathorough grounding in their native language -- in conversation,grammar,and/or literacy -- they are going to struggle with learning a newlanguage,with basic job skills, and with figuring out how to teach theirchildren.How can you ask a parent to read to a child, when the parent can'tread?I completely agree that adult literacy is a crucial issue in thiscountry,and I continue to maintain that the single best way to improve the education of the children is to improve the education of the parents,especiallythemother or primary caregiver. ------- Sylvan Rainwater mailto:sylvan@cccchs.org Program Managaer Family Literacy Clackamas Co. Children's Commission / Head Start Oregon City, OR USA -----Original Message----- From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of KenTaberSent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 5:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9390] Re: Accept English Only donation? Albert et al, The Pew Hispanic Research identifies the problem that Adult ESLProgramsface in this country. It also confirms that it is actually easier toteachthe foreign-born K-12 student than it is the adult. Thesefrustrationsleadus to ask the ultimate question. How do we solve the problem? Infact,thesame is true for the American in this country that does not get agoodearly education. Nationally, 22% of Americans are considered functionally illiterate. That figure remains about the same. We used to have an educational system that supported the industrial age where teachingonly80% was acceptable. Now that we have entered the information age andtheirareless jobs in former industries, we must get near 100% literacy inthiscountry. And of those 22%, and in some cities, that figure is muchhigher,only 5% of those needing adult education services actually receivethem.The only answer the government has in more accountability but thenumbersstill have not changed. Even with a great title like the "No ChildLeftBehind Act," we are losing the battle of adult literacy in thiscountry.The problem as was pointed out by some is adult literacy, and not justfortheforeign-born, but for all Americans. There are American-born UScitizenswho speak English only that are illiterate. We have become experts atpointingthe finger. We have a lot of research. What we need are applicable solutions. We know the problems, they have not changed. Our current solutions have not work. I have made some observations that deal with what all teachers shouldbedoing. Teachers need high expectations for all their students.Teachersalso need to know the how best to teach the diversity of students in their classroom. This requires staff development. Sometimes, it is simplythecase of real research bang applied to an old problem. I actually had a principal from another school that told me that"Researchshows that English-Only programs (for LEP students) were better."Thismythhas reached not only the some of the classrooms in my district buthasreached its administration as well. These principals were sold a billofgoods from the English-Only Movement and are calling it research. Thefactis the federal law allows for almost any program that can showresults.However, it does not allow for an English Submersion Model, a sink orswimapproach or dead end approach. There are some states that interpret the federal law to mean thattheycanrun an English-Only Approach with no staff development of theirteachers.When this principal made this comment, I asked whether this districthad anEnglish-Only Approach? The coordinator (with no ESOL training) who Ihadspoken to about the law said we have an Structured English Immersion Approach which we didn't because this approach requires a highlytrainedstaff. We may have had a Structured English Immersion Approach onpaperbutwe had an English-Only or English Submersion Approach in reality. The SC State House tried to write a bill (H3703) last year limitingLEPinstruction to only the first two years foreign-born students arriveinthis country and mandating a Sheltered English Immersion Approach. Theyclaimedin their bill that English could be learned fast. Sheltered English Immersion is perhaps the least recommended approach but also theleastcostly. The only good part of the bill was that the state actuallyrealizedthat it had a constitutional duty to teach these students. The billnevermade it out of the SC House but it was interesting to see howlegislaturesdon't understand the real problem or the legal history of LEPprogramsbutmost of all they do not understand that English-Only laws may be acivilrights violation in an educational setting. Ken Taber kentaber@inetgenesis.com_________________________________________________________________ Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! https://broadband.msn.com------- End of Original Message -------_________________________________________________________________ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
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