Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h7UDej706308; Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 09:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <011f01c36efb$8a869bb0$02944b43@emac> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Terry McLean" <tmclean@mindspring.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9339] Re: Accept English Only donation? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 10201 Lines: 257 "Not only that, but the state of Florida is always importing migrant workers from Mexico and Central America to work in the fields" I wish to highlight this phrase because I think it is wrong. If the state imports people, would that not be slavery? I think a more appropriate statement would be the state of Florida ignores the agribusinesses and the people that bring people from other countries to work in abysmal conditions. Learning the language of the country in which you reside is necessary. End of discussion. How well you learn the language depends on your personal goals, a little explanation here, bear with me. My second language is French, I don't use it anymore but it still lives somewhere in the murky depths of what is left of my mind. Why did I learn French? Because I was part of a pilot program for inner city kids. I spent 9 or 10 years learning the language. When I went to France, I had some control over my life because I could read and understand snippets of the conversations around me. Oral production was difficult for me but I stumbled through and somehow communicated with my French speaking (ONLY) counterparts. I didn't like the idea of depending on other people for my language needs so I was determined to make the best of it. In the Army, I was stationed in Germany. I spent the first six months, listening to German TV, walking in the streets, eavesdropping, reading a newspaper with a dictionary. I tried to make conversation with everybody. I didn't have time for classes. And I had a choice, I could have hung around the barracks and spoke English only. But I wanted to have the freedom to travel around Europe. Many people spoke English in the little city where I lived but I didn't want to speak English, I wanted to practice my new language and I did. Was I fluent? No, I had trouble with grammar and my writing is horrible. But after five years, I was on the plane going home and when asked in German, I answered in German the document questions and continued until she asked me where in Germany I was born. Now I'm back in the States and I am learning Spanish. I don't have times for classes. I work two jobs and have a household to take care of--so I do what I can. I pick up La Noticia (the local free Spanish newspaper), I listen to Spanish-speakers on the radio, I eavesdrop when I'm standing in line with others who are speaking Spanish, not for content, for accent. I have a dictionary, a notebook, a workbook and a need to understand and communicate with the parents of my primarily Spanish speaking LEP children. So, that's it, if you are still reading, understand that in my viewpoint, learning the language of the country in which you live is not a matter of courtesy, it is a matter of necessity. Annie McLean > >. Most work in > places isolated from larger communities, long hours, and have little > opportunities to mingle with English speakers or attend ESL classes. When > they have children, their children attend school and acquire English in > little time and often start forgetting their native language. In fact, it is > estimated that it only takes three generations to completely eradicate the > native language of immigrants, unless there is a strong effort by the > parents to educate their children in the native language. However, parents > often want their children to learn English only. In Florida, there are, for > example, Mayans, who don't speak Spanish. They are very isolated and cannot > communicate with anyone, except for other Mayans. There are virtually no > services or classes for them. Their children often become their > interpreters. This is true of every single i! > > mmigrant group. Throughout the USA there are colonies of immigrants. The > first to arrive, if adults, preserve their native language and often, don't > learn English, They often get low wage jobs where others from their native > country are hired, and they communicate in their native language. Since low > wage jobs require minimal skills, and virtually no academic skills, it is > often not a requirement to hire English speakers or writers. > > > > Throughout the USA you will find colonies of immigrants that form their > own neighborhoods where the elders only speak their native language. their > children learn English and often move out of the neighborhoods. Depending on > the size of the immigrant group, and the community you will find the > language spoken more or less. When immigrants from a particular country > establish a community, other immigrant from that country often come to the > same community. The older ones don't learn English. This is common > everywhere in the word. In countries in Europe and Latin America, people > speak the common language of the region, instead of the dominant language of > the country. In northern Italy many people speak mostly German. In > Switzerland, the Netherlands and Belgium, you will find four or five > different language spoken depending on the region. In Argentina, Paraguay > and Brasil, people may speak, Spanish, Portuguese or guarani, depending on > where you are. In Mexico and central America, p! > > eople will speak either Spanish or an Indian language. In Louisiana, > people will speak English, french or the regional dialect. > > > > In every one of these countries, the elders often speak their native > language and little or nothing of their second language. It is the children > who acquire the second language if this is a dominant language in a > particular region. > > > > Andres > > > > >>> antjemeissner@yahoo.com 08/29/03 08:37AM >>> > > Hello, > > I am from Florida too. Last time I talked to my > > teacher friends in Miami, they had very long waiting > > lists for their adult ESOL classes and I heard them > > complain about funding cuts by the state, so that they > > have to send more and more students away. > > > > << Welcome to America. > > > > Do what u like. > > > > We'll give u tax dollar > > > > As a tax paying immigrant, I take offense in this > > "poem". And I think you know that you are wrong, or > > you would have added some facts that prove your point. > > > > Antje Meissner > > > > > > > > > > --- ttweeton <ttweeton@comcast.net> wrote: > > > Welcome to America. > > > > Do what u like. > > > > We'll give u tax dollar. > > > > > > > > Xenophillically > > > > > > Joe you are so funny.! I am in agreement with what > > > you say. The issue of > > > Bilingual programs ( or not) IS a problem for the > > > children, but a most > > > irritating situation is the immigrant (parents of > > > those children??) who > > > comes here and decides that it is not necessary to > > > learn English( or ver y > > > little of it ) because he/she can get along pretty > > > well (particularly in > > > Miami ) without it! AND finds all kinds of > > > government help in his/her native > > > language just as you stated ( so why learn English > > > if you don't have to!!!!) > > > If you are from Miami you know this but when you > > > call govt. offices here, > > > the first language spoken when answering the phone > > > is Spanish. I > > > personally speak Spanish AND French AND Italian > > > etc...., no problem, > > > BUT...... how presumptious of these people to think > > > that I will > > > automatically understand what they are saying!!!! In > > > this case, with these > > > govt agencies English MUST and should be spoken , > > > AND come first! I ,as > > > a taxpayer, pay their salaries and have a right to > > > expect that I will be > > > helped in "correctly and clearly spoken "English > > > FIRST. To speak in Spanish > > > first , only intimidates me, as Mrs Consumer. I also > > > have rights as a > > > consumer . How can they possibly know who is at the > > > other end of the line?? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Joe Little" < > > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" < > > > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 5:48 PM > > > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9300] Re: Accept English Only > > > donation? > > > > > > > > > > > One suggestion would be for students to > > > investigate the group (as an > > > > > exercise). Financials should be public, as are > > > mission statements, > > > etc. > > > > > See what percentage of their budget goes for > > > ESL. There is no paucity > > > of > > > > > newspaper articles at relatively easy reading > > > levels that go into an > > > array > > > > > of issues and cases associated with English > > > Only. Some go into > > > employees > > > > > suing employers for their right to speak their > > > native language on the > > > job; others > > > > > tell the exact opposite. And of course, > > > English Only's strong > > > connection to > > > > > right wing, anti-immigrant forces are well > > > documented and easy to > > > understand. > > > > > > > > Laurie, Cathy, and all, > > > > > > > > I love the idea of investigating the financial > > > statement and mission > > > statement of the English Only organization. That's > > > clear,factual stuff. > > > Many folks-- present company excluded, hopefully -- > > > would stear clear of > > > that, opting instead for liberal-rant, leftist- > > > > rave articles from our libero-centric friends in > > > the media. > > > > > > > > > That the group approached you with the > > > unabashed intention to use their > > > > > donation as a PR stint to push "their" > > > political agenda reminds me of a > > > > > slogan on a t-shirt complete w/caps and > > > exclamation points I saw just > > > last > > > > > weekend in NJ: "Welcome to America. Now SPEAK > > > ENGLISH!!!!!" As ESL > > > > > professionals, we know that the bottom line is > > > xenophobia. > > > > > > > > Bottom line of what? That slogan? Produced by > > > whom? Probably the vast > > > left-wing conspiracy...but seriously, the t-shirt u > > > saw reminds me of a > > > haiku i read not three > > > > hours ago: > > > > > > > >, > > > > > > > > sincerely, > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com >
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