It is certainly difficult to use data in a meaningful way and the process 
requires some (but not a lot of) technical skill, but more importantly, it 
requires a changed way to think about what data are.  This is what we are 
trying to move toward now in our trainings related to using data for program 
improvement. We focus on two main ideas: looking at data more broadly as a type 
of information of which accountability data are just one type and (2) to go 
beyond accountability data and use other information available to gain a deeper 
understanding. 

These two goals, I think, get a bit closer to what Janet is saying about seeing 
accountability data as part of a continuum of information available to 
programs.  NRS data are a certain type of information collected for specific 
purposes.  As such they also provide some information as well for program 
management, but NRS data are often far too narrow for teachers and others who 
need to know more about their learners.  But accountability provides a 
structure and approach for organizing and collecting the information that that 
I think teachers and program directors can fill with additional information -- 
classroom assessments, qualitative measures, learner goals and classroom 
practices.  With a more integrated approach, you can use data in ways that are 
meaningful, and not feel that data are just using you.

Larry Condelli


-----Original Message-----

--------------------------------------
Date: 5/18/04 7:49 AM
From: Janet Isserlis
In response to Sandy's comments:


>>Larry's questions about how we use data for program improvement are >>based 

on the assumption that program leaders actually find value in >>collecting and 
analyzing data as a basis for decision-making. >>Clearly, some do and others do 
not.  I'm wondering if any >>discussion related to using the NRS for program 
improvement might >>need to start with an exploration of state and federal >>
accountability systems in general and the impact they have had, and >>continue 
to have, on our field.

I would add that while yes, we are accountable, first and foremost to learners 
and then to those who fund the work we do with learners, what is maddening are 
the ways in which this actual work can get lost, manipulated, translated and 
otherwise described as data -- sometimes usefully, sometimes not.  When does 
this data gives us helpful information, and when is it merely data that shows, 
yes, people came on average for 27 hours and made a gain of [x] on [x] test?  
How *do* we use this data without losing the critically important details of 
how learners' lives change (incrementally, maybe, or  in bigger ways, too) - 
and also recognize that sometimes numbers help inform us and sometimes they 
just complete data reports that tell us little about learning and the 
conditions necessary to support it.

How can we work to incorporate accountability into our ongoing work in ways 
that productively inform what we do?  There's a growing body of work and 
literature around ways in which  ongoing classroom assessment includes and 
informs learners and practitioners; is it possible to see some sort of 
continuum  that includes our understandings of ways to measure and acknowledge 
those kinds of learning/skills/knowledge gains as part of a larger process of 
understanding the relationship of those gains to program improvement, change 
and growth?

  I'm hoping that Larry might join this discussion and respond to our 
responses, if he's not already subscribed to this list.

Janet Isserlis
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