Following is the transcript of General Ham's testimony before the House Armed Services Committee, April 5, 2011: HEARING OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE SUBJECT: "U.S. TRANSPORTATION COMMAND (TRANSCOM) AND U.S. AFRICA COMMAND (AFRICOM) BUDGET REQUESTS" CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE BUCK MCKEON (R-CA) WITNESSES: AIR FORCE GENERAL DUNCAN MCNABB, COMMANDER, U.S. TRANSPORTATION COMMAND (TRANSCOM) ARMY GENERAL CARTER HAM, COMMANDER, U.S. AFRICA COMMAND (AFRICOM) LOCATION: 2118 RAYBURN HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING, WASHINGTON, D.C. TIME: 2:00 P.M. EDT DATE: TUESDAY, APRIL 5, 2011 REP. MCKEON: The committee will come to order. I apologize for tardiness; we had a vote and then a suspicious package. And I didn't think they were ever going to let us back. The House Armed Services Committee meets today to receive testimony from the commanders of the United States Transportation Command and the United States Africa Command on the posture of their respective commands. Although these are two combatant areas that sometimes fly beneath the radar, this hearing could not be more relevant than it is today. In AFRICOM's area of responsibility, U.S. forces have been conducting active military operations against forces loyal to Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi in an effort to prevent a massacre of the civilian population of Libya. Although this humanitarian intervention is motivated by a noble impulse, there's a strong possibility of a strategic stalemate emerging in Libya. I fear we may find ourselves committed to an open-ended obligation through our participation in NATO operations, and that poses real opportunity costs, given the volatility of other unstable, more strategically important countries in the region. Beyond Libya, this weekend, as many as 1,000 civilians were massacred in the Ivory Coast as that nation's political standoff escalated violently. This brutality could be an ominous foreshadowing of future events in the Sudan as the southern portion of that war-torn country becomes an independent nation in July. Further east, Somalia continues to be a source of instability, hosting both al-Qaida and affiliated al-Shabab terrorist organization and the various piracy networks that have intensified attacks in the Gulf of Aden and beyond over the past several years, recently killing four American citizens aboard a private yacht. Just as it was virtually impossible to foresee the United States becoming militarily involved in Libya, at least at last year's posture hearings, this Congress may be called upon to fund a number of possible contingency operations or humanitarian missions in AFRICOM's AOR. I think when we made New Year's resolutions this year we did not foresee Egypt, Libya, all of the other things that are happening. Wherever U.S. forces may operate over the next year, TRANSCOM will be charged with getting them there, sustaining them throughout their operations and getting them home to their families. As General Omar Bradley famously said, "Amateurs talk strategy, and professionals talk logistics." The events of the past 18 months are an instructive example as to the relevance of that quote today. Not only did TRANSCOM have to respond to the surge of forces in Afghanistan while they simultaneously orchestrated the drawdown of forces in Iraq, but they also had to respond to the devastating earthquake in Haiti. Things have not gotten any easier for the men and women of TRANSCOM as they are now supporting combat operations in Libya, in addition to operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and are working desperately to assist the people of Japan following the horrific earthquakes of the past month. What they do is not easy, and it oftentimes goes unnoticed. But the capabilities of TRANSCOM are truly unique among nations. We're fortunate to be joined here today by two officers with long and distinguished records of service to their nation: General Duncan McNabb, commander of U.S. Transportation Command, and General Carter Ham, commander of the U.S. Africa Command. Gentlemen, thank you for appearing before us here today, and thank you for your lifetime of service to our nation. And please convey our thanks to those who serve with you in your combat areas. We look forward to hearing your testimony today. Ranking Member Smith. REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, General McNabb, General Ham. Appreciate you being here to testify this afternoon. Look forward to your comments and your answers to our questions. Two very important commands within the military. Transportation Command, first, does an amazing job of what the chairman referred to as logistics. You know, you can imagine all the capabilities we have and where we would like them, but General McNabb is the one who has to make sure that those two things match up. And it's not an easy job when you consider our interests throughout the world and where we have had to move our equipment in recent years. You do an outstanding job, as do the men and women who serve in the Transportation Command. We appreciate that. We have the C-17s out of Joint Base Lewis-McChord and McChord Air Force Base who are a big part of that, so we're very proud of what they do as well. Going forward, I think, in this hearing, a number of issues we're going to be interested in, but in particular, as we figure out how to downsize in Iraq, move equipment out of there, how does that work in terms of getting it back to the states or getting it back to where we want it based? How is that process progressing? What contingencies do you have in place if for some reason, sometime in the next seven to eight months, it turns out that we're going to be leaving more equipment there than we expected? If the Iraqis make a request that we're able to grant for a continued U.S. presence of some, you know, very limited scope, I would anticipate, but still, that will complicate the transportation of that equipment? And then second, of course, the ongoing challenge of providing for the warfighter in Afghanistan. There are many logistical challenges. We bring a lot of our equipment in through Pakistan, not always a very stable place. The countries to the north of Afghanistan also have their challenges, as we have heard. So I would be interested in your feelings about how we're doing on that, what the major challenges are going forward and how we can better make sure that we get the equipment to Afghanistan that we need. In AFRICOM, as the chairman mentioned, you have a fair number of challenges in that region. I think the best way to summarize them is "instability." Certainly there's a lot of political unrest in a number of nations across the top of Africa, to varying degrees, from Tunisia and Egypt and Libya and Morocco, and also further down in the Ivory Coast there are major challenges right now. The Democratic Republic of the Congo has an ongoing challenge, particularly in the Eastern Congo with maintaining stability. And that instability can have a very real impact on our national security interests. Al-Qaida is present, both as you know, AQAP, al- Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, close to Somalia, and then al-Qaida in the land of the Islamic Maghreb, AQIM, which is throughout the sort of Malia-Mauritania area. And they feed on instability, vast, ungoverned spaces where they can operate without people being able to control them. So AFRICOM has a strong interest, not just, you know, in Libya where we're very aware of what's going on, but throughout the continent and trying to figure out how we combat the political unrest, combat poverty, which drives instability, to make sure that these unstable, ungoverned areas don't become a threat to us, and that we can help make sure that the continent is a more peaceful and prosperous place for those who reside there. So, I appreciate the opportunity to have this hearing today. I look forward to your testimony, gentlemen. With that, I will yield back to the chairman. REP. MCKEON: Thank you. General McNabb, your full testimonies, without objection, will be inserted in the record, so you may tell us whatever you feel most appropriate. General. GEN. MCNABB: Chairman McKeon, Congressman Smith, and distinguished members of this committee, it is my distinct privilege to be here today with you, representing more than 145,000 of the world's finest logistics professionals. Throughout 2010 and continuing today, the U.S. Transportation Command team of active duty, Guard, Reserve, civilians, Merchant Mariners and commercial partners accomplished incredible feats in the face of historic challenges. We have a saying at U.S. Transportation Command: We view our success through the eyes of the warfighter. We've always been about support to the six regional combatant commands and their joint task force commanders. Working with the Defense Logistics Agency, the Joint Staff, the services and the combatant command staffs, our log nation and trans-nation teams have provided unparalleled logistics superiority to the regional combatant commanders. From the services and the Joint Forces Command getting the forces ready to go, to the TRANSCOM team delivering the force, to the theater commanders receiving the force, this is the best overall performance I have seen in almost 37 years of service. Sitting next to me is one of our finest warfighters and my good friend General Carter Ham. I was proud to support him as he commanded military operations over the skies of Libya in Operation Odyssey Dawn, and I look forward to continue to support him as he takes AFRICOM to new and even higher levels. It is he and the other combatant commanders that I am always supporting and we view our success through their eyes. I feel blessed to be the custodian of one of the nation's greatest asymmetric advantages, our strategic ability to move. Since taking command of U.S. Transportation Command in the fall of 2008, I have been amazed to see some of the unique capabilities inherent in this command. First and foremost is the power of the total force team. Nobody matches up our active-duty force with our Guard and Reserve partners like the U.S. Transportation Command. When we called for volunteers to help relieve some of the suffering in Haiti last January, the men and women of the Guard and Reserve stepped up in huge fashion. This included a contingency response group from the Kentucky Guard that was just coming up to speed. During the surge of forces into Afghanistan, we relied heavily on activated C-5 and C-17 crews, maintainers and aerial porters, and they were crucial to meeting President Obama's deadline to complete the plus-up by 31 August of last year. Most recently, we saw their patriotism in action in responding rapidly to the air refueling requirements in support of the Libyan operations. I'm also in awe of the power of the U.S. flag fleet in the air, on the seas and over land. The U.S. flag maritime fleet and their outstanding Merchant Mariners stepped up during our historic surge last year into Afghanistan and out of Iraq, and we didn't have to activate one ship for either operation. And they delivered. They continue to be key to supplying our forces in Afghanistan, coming up through Pakistan or over the Northern Distribution Network. In the air, our commercial partners have continued to meet the demands of the surge in Afghanistan, and most recently responded brilliantly to bringing Americans home from Japan following the recent earthquake, tsunami and nuclear incident. We know the combatant commanders around the world depend on us to deliver the forces and their sustainment day in and day out, from resupply of the South Pole, to air dropping food, water and ammo to a forward operating base in Afghanistan, to delivering fuel to our fighters and bombers enforcing the Libyan no-fly zone, U.S. TRANSCOM delivers. If we do this right, our warfighting commanders do not worry about their logistics lifeline. This is what the secretary of defense intended when he made U.S. TRANSCOM the distribution process owner, or DPO, in 2003. He gave the DPO influence over the entire supply chain, from factory to foxhole, and we constantly look for more effective solutions for the warfighter while also being good stewards of the taxpayers' dollar. Since its inception, the DPO has realized over $5.3 billion in savings, and we're still counting. Last year alone, that savings was $1.7 billion. A big part of that savings is taking advantage of lower-cost surface transportation whenever possible. When we match surface-to-air and commercial-to-military modes of transportation, we are leveraging our enterprise to maximum advantage for both the warfighter and the taxpayer. We recently saved over $110 million a month moving lifesaving, mine-resistant, all-terrain vehicles to our forces in Afghanistan, using a combination of commercial surface and military air. We continue to look for every opportunity to use multi-modal operations throughout our global enterprise. My final call out is to the power of the interagency and the joint team. President Obama, in ordering the plus-up of forces in Afghanistan and drawdown in Iraq, set a very tight timeline for our execution. We knew we would need some help, increasing capacity on our existing supply lines and helping establish new supply routes. We took our recommendations to the interagency, and the whole of government came through with excellent results. The National Security Council, ambassadors around the world, the State Department, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Maritime Administration, the combatant commands and the log nation and transnation teams came together to make logistics magic. This was at a time when we were asked to expand quickly and redirect flow due to an earthquake in the Caribbean that devastated Haiti, which the chairman alluded to, a volcanic eruption that shut down European airspace for three weeks, a coup in the country where we have our main passenger trans-load operation, the Deep Horizon oil spill in the Gulf, and the worst floods in Pakistan history during the last month of the plus-up. And, we still closed everything by 31 August that the president has asked us to do. And our operations continue today at record-breaking pace. We continue to support our forces in Afghanistan and the drawdown in Iraq. We pivoted the transportation enterprise rapidly to support General Ham and the implementation of the no-fly zone over Libya. And we moved out urgently to help with disaster relief in Japan and provide immediate responses to the nuclear incident with special equipment and nuclear specialists from the United States. I could not be more proud of the men and women of the United States Transportation Command. I've flown with our air crews and loaded and moved containers with our stevedores. I've walked through the pallet-holding areas with our aerial porters in Afghanistan, and explored the cargo holds of our ready-reserve fleet with our Merchant Mariners. Daily, I am amazed and humbled by what our people accomplish. Chairman McKeon, Congressman Smith, and all members of this committee, thank you for your continued superb support of U.S. TRANSCOM and our men and women in uniform. It is my distinct honor and privilege to appear before you today to represent the men and women who are the U.S. Transportation Command, and to tell you their story. Again, thank you for taking my written statement for the record. And I look forward to your questions. REP. MCKEON: Thank you very much. General Ham. GEN. HAM: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Congressman Smith and members of the committee, and thanks for the opportunity to discuss with you today the accomplishments of the men and women of United States Africa Command. I would like to introduce to the committee Command Chief Master Sergeant Jack Johnson, the command's senior enlisted leader. He and I have only just begun our service together at Africa Command, but I see already that he is exactly the right person to lead several important initiatives and to ensure our service members and their families are well trained and well supported. And I'm indeed honored to appear alongside General McNabb, a highly distinguished Airman and joint force leader. This is a historic time for United States Africa Command. We completed a complex, short-notice operational mission in Libya, and have now transferred control of that mission to NATO. The situation in Libya and the conduct of Operation Odyssey Dawn highlights some important matters about Africa. First, this event illustrates the dynamics of the African political-military environment, one that has seen the growing threat of transnational extremists in Somalia, election crises, coups, the southern Sudanese referendum, the scourge of the Lord's Resistance Army, to name just a few of the challenges to security on the continent. In order for Africa Command to reduce threats to our citizens and interests, both abroad and at home, we need to contribute to operations, programs and activities that help African states provide for their own security in a manner that is consistent with the rule of law and international norms. And we must continue our efforts to enhance regional stability through partnership, not only with African states, but also sustained, reliable support to African regional organizations. Africa Command's programs are designed to help prevent conflict while simultaneously ensuring that the command is prepared to respond decisively to any crisis when the president so directs, as demonstrated in our conduct of Operation Odyssey Dawn. Secondly, building the coalition to address the situation in Libya was greatly facilitated through the benefits of long-standing relationships and interoperability, this time within NATO. This is the kind of regional approach to security that U.S. Africa Command seeks to foster on the continent. U.S. Africa Command's priority efforts remain building the security capacity of our African partners. We incorporate regional cooperation in pursuit of interoperability in all our programs, activities and exercises so that our African partners are postured to readily form coalitions to address African security challenges as they arise. Everything U.S. Africa Command has accomplished is the result of the professionalism and dedication of the uniformed and civilian women and men of the command, and our many teammates from across the U.S. government. Their dedicated efforts are a testament to America's spirit and determination, and reflect our commitment to contributing to the well being and security of the people of Africa. Our guiding principles are first, that a safe, secure and stable Africa is clearly in the best interests of the United States. And secondly, that we seek to help Africans find solutions to African challenges. I am cognizant that the command is only able to accomplish its missions with the enduring support of this committee. And I thank you for that, and invite you to come visit us at our headquarters. Or better yet, come see us at work in Africa. And Mr. Chairman, I would welcome your questions. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. MCKEON: Thank you. General Ham, despite the numerous briefings we've received from the administration regarding our military operations in Libya, I think many areas of uncertainty still remain. One question I have is where AFRICOM fits into the command and control structure of NATO enforcement of the no-fly zone and attacks on regime ground targets? General, does AFRICOM have a clear role in the chain of command or targeting boards of Operation Odyssey Dawn? Or are you liaising with NATO's Joint Task Force Unified Protector at this point? And what has the reaction of Libya's African neighbors been to our intervention there? Will this operation affect our partnership efforts in the region, in particular Operation Enduring Freedom, Trans-Sahara and our efforts against al-Qaida in the Maghreb? GEN. HAM: Chairman, first of all, on the command and control side at present, with the transition of the operation from U.S. AFRICOM to NATO, NATO now has full operational control of the forces that are actually conducting missions over Libya. So, U.S. AFRICOM is presently in a supporting role to Admiral Stavridis, Admiral Locklear, General Bouchard, in their efforts. So, I don't, at present, have an operational responsibility. There is always the potential for some U.S. unilateral military missions. One could think of, for example, personnel recovery of a downed pilot, or something like that. And if that were to occur, then that would fall to U.S. Africa Command to execute those responsibilities. Sir, with regard to the regional reaction, it is, frankly, it is mixed as we see that particularly play out in African Union. Many members, many states in Africa have voiced their support for the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, the imposition and execution of those responsibilities. But frankly, there are other states who did not agree with that U.N. Security Council resolution. I think, frankly, as we proceed, I'm going to have the responsibility, as I engage with our African partners, of just having a very frank discussion about what U.S. Africa Command's role was, why we did what we did, and just be as truthful and forthright as I can, and just try to maintain the great relationships that we have with most African states as we move forward. But your point is valid. There is an impact and there will be an impact within the region. REP. MCKEON: Thank you very much. Ranking Member Smith. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. SMITH: Right, and create a bigger target. Thank you. General Ham, just a quick question about Africa. I mentioned that stability is a main challenge there in making sure that we, you know, do what we can to help create a more stable atmosphere. There's a strong interagency approach that's necessary -- State Department, USAID, in particular, and elsewhere. I've done a trip across Africa to a variety of different countries a couple of years ago, and I know that that's critical to being able to be successful,to leverage your assets in cooperation with the State Department. Can you talk to us a little bit about how that interagency process works country-to-country in Africa, and how you see that as part of your mission there? GEN. HAM: Yes, sir, absolutely. With the design of United States Africa Command, there was a recognition, I think, early on that the problem itself that you just identified was key, that it is about instability, and it does require a whole-of-government approach to advance U.S. interests on the continent. And with that in mind, the command headquarters was designed with a considerable amount of interagency support. So, we look at our headquarters in Stuttgart, which is not surprisingly, overwhelmingly Department of Defense, but we have 12 other government agencies who are represented at some pretty senior levels, to include deputy to the commander, who is a very experienced and senior Foreign Service officer, former ambassador. We have senior representatives from USAID, from Treasury, from Commerce and many other organizations to help us look at the challenges, the security challenges in Africa, through more than just a military lens. And that helps us, first of all, better define the problem so that we can then, in concert with our interagency partners, bring to bear ideally the whole of government, the various assets that different branches bring to help African states build the secure environment that they need to build. Our aspect of that is, again, very largely weighted toward the military, but the other aspects of government are key. The second point, Congressman, that I would say is, we work very, very closely with the chiefs of mission in the countries, and of course, they are the senior Americans in each of those countries. We make sure that all of our efforts are nested with the ambassador and with the country team, which are inherently interagency, and we think that that works to our best effect. REP. SMITH: OK, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. REP. MCKEON: Thank you. Mr. Bartlett. REP. ROSCOE BARTLETT (R-MD): Thank you, both, very much for your testimony, your long service and your stellar performance. I have a lot of questions about our Libya involvement, which I believe is both unconstitutional and illegal. But these are policy questions, and I know yours is not to reason why, yours is but to do and die. So I will avoid the temptation to ask you questions which you cannot answer, by yielding my time to our most junior member here at gavel fall, which was Mr. West. REP. ALLEN WEST (R-FL): Well, thank you, Mr. Bartlett. And also, thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member. And Generals, it's good to see you. General Ham, always great to see you. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. WEST: Well, thank you, sir. And if I could ask one other question. General Ham, you know, we sit back, as Ranking Member Smith talked about the unrest and the political instability in Africa, do you see an encroachment of any al-Qaida type of elements? And also, I'd like to get your assessment of China's interventions into the African continent as well. GEN. HAM: Thanks, Congressman. If I could take the second piece first, the Chinese are very active across the continent, but primarily in an economic way. And I'm learning more about that as I get further into the command. And I would note that tomorrow would be four weeks, so I have a lot yet to learn about this. But, I see the Chinese influence primarily in an economic vein with construction, with oil and the like. Your first point about al-Qaida and, more broadly, violent extremist organizations in Africa, is indeed the number one security challenge that we face in Africa. And I would say, most notably in East Africa where we see the efforts of al-Shabab in Somalia, and attempting to expand their reach more regionally with linkages with al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, in Yemen, and potentially linkages with al-Qaida in the lands of the Islamic Maghreb. All of those, I think, pose a very, very real strategic concern to the United States, our people and our interests, both abroad and at home. So, I take that as our number one mission and our number one area of emphasis. REP. WEST: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. REP. MCKEON: Thank you. Mrs. Davis. REP. SUSAN DAVIS (D-CA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, both, for your distinguished service. I wanted to follow up a little on the interagency question, because I think over the years, we have acknowledged that the military operations and interface probably will always overshadow, to a certain extent, in many of the areas in which we're engaged, we're involved. Are there some metrics? Are there some areas that you're really looking at to see, whether in fact, that has changed dramatically? And what has really contributed to that change? Are we, in fact, seeing that military operations or the activities, per se, are really not getting in the way of the diplomatic efforts that we've had ongoing? GEN. HAM: Yes, ma'am. I think, for us in Africa Command, the operations in Libya were certainly a different nature, a different type of the operation. And those, while certainly an overwhelmingly military aspect of the U.S. application of power, more commonly throughout Africa, U.S. Africa Command is operating in a supporting role, in most cases, supporting chief-of-mission initiatives or Department of State-led initiatives. It is principally through Department of State authorities that building partner capacity, security-institution building is done through state authorities, though DOD through U.S. Africa Command has a supporting role in that regard. A good example is the development of forces from Uganda, Burundi, who operate in the Africa mission in Somalia under a State Department program that U.S. Africa Command supports. So, I think we have the balance about right in terms of who is in charge. The Department of Defense and, again, through U.S. Africa Command, we bring a lot of capacity and a lot of ability to enable those programs, but by and large, we are doing so in support of others. And that seems to me to be about right for most of the programs in Africa. REP. DAVIS: Are you checking in, I guess, fairly frequently to be sure that everybody agrees, I think, that that balance, where it's appropriate -- obviously, there are areas that you pointed out, of course, where the balance is not appropriate. But I think one of the -- I think it was the trips that I took actually with our ranking chairman, where, despite the fact that we talked about how important it was, in fact the people who were engaged in this effort didn't feel that they had the same seat at the table. GEN. HAM: I think that's a very real concern and something that I would tell you that I'll take a look at as I get my feet under me in this new command. I will, as I told Assistant Secretary Carson of the Africa Bureau at State Department, that most of the time when I come back to D.C., I'll make an effort to see him as he has pledged to come see me on the continent or in Germany. I think it's very, very important that we have that very strong linkage to make sure that all of the assets of government get a voice and an important voice as we move forward. REP. DAVIS: Thank you, sir. May I just -- you noted, I think, two areas in which you're reaching out to military families, particularly in Stuttgart, I think, where they've had some questions and some problems. How else are you able to make certain that our military families feel that they have the support that they need in that command? And some of those are accompanied. I believe the majority, I suspect, are probably not accompanied, certainly in Djibouti where we have some forces there. GEN. HAM: Yes, ma'am. The quality of life for our service members who are at the headquarters in Stuttgart and in our service component commands, who are largely based in Europe with one here in the U.S., those families have excellent support. I do worry more so about the small contingents that are either in our embassies, kind of separated away, that the military service members and families have the programs that they need. But generally, that's pretty good. And at places like Camp Lemonnier, which is a pretty large deployment of unaccompanied service members, again, thanks to this committee, they actually have very good quality of life. It's never as good as being separated, but it is quite good. REP. DAVIS: Thank you. REP. MCKEON: Thank you. Mr. Wilson. REP. JOE WILSON (R-SC): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Generals, thank you for being here today. And General Ham, I am very familiar that the Southern Command is located in Miami. And we know that the people of my birthplace, Charleston, South Carolina, have a keen interest in the potential of AFRICOM being located in Charleston. And we would, if my colleagues, Congressman Tim Scott, Congressman Jim Clyburn, were here, they would want to make a few points to you. And that is that Charleston is the transportation hub for the United States Transportation Command as well as the primary seaport for container traffic between the United States and the South Atlantic. The Charleston Air Force Base provides all the strategic airlift support for Africa, for our government, to include embassy support. SPAWAR at Charleston is the leading provider for command, control and communications for EUCOM's role in Africa. The relationships for the Charleston medical community -- which would be so helpful in the event of an emergency in Africa; the medical university of South Carolina is located in Charleston, a world-class facility. We know that most of the rapid-deployment forces that would be used in an African operation include Special Operations that are in the southeastern part of the United States. Charleston is the hub for all military transportation -- airlift, sealift and pre-positioning -- to Africa. And then there's an extraordinary cultural linkage. I had the privilege of visiting in Monrovia, Liberia, and the great cultural association of West Africa to Charleston is very clear. It's a shared culture. In fact, we have the same accents and I felt right at home when I was visiting with the people in Monrovia. And then I found out, to my pleasant surprise, that the diocese of the African-American Methodist Church for South Carolina is actually South Carolina and Liberia, and it sponsors the AME University there in Monrovia. And so, with that in mind, the decision Secretary Gates has indicated to be made for moving Africa Command or retaining it won't be considered until next year, but when the decision is made, what are the considerations that will be made as to quality of life for dependents' access to schools, jobs, medical care? What do you see? GEN. HAM: Congressman, first, I would say, I've only had the opportunity to visit Charleston once, but it was just a few years ago, and it was indeed a very enjoyable visit to a great city. As you mentioned, the secretary of defense has asked me to take a look at and provide a recommendation back to him as to, you know, what should the stationing of the Africa Command headquarters be? And he's essentially asked me to start from a clean sheet of paper and look at the factors that you've identified -- security, suitability, quality of life, transportation nodes, accessibility to the area of responsibility -- a whole host of requirements that we would like to station our headquarters. And so that process has begun. And we will look at, first of all, to make sure we've got the methodology right. And then, we will look at a wide variety of locations to see which we think would make -- be most suitable for the command to accomplish its missions. But, it will take us a little bit of time to do that. REP. WILSON: Well, you indicated you have visited Charleston once. You are welcome back, obviously. And you will see such a symbiotic relationship with West Africa to the low country of South Carolina. And the people there are very proud of the shared culture. But then, obviously, all the other features that I told you. And I know that if Congressman Scott were here, or Congressman Clyburn, they would want to make that point. And General McNabb, as my final question, in regard to refitting rail cars, what's the status of refitting old rail cars as opposed to buying new? [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. HANK JOHNSON (D-GA): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And to Mr. Wilson, I would comment that when I've been to South Carolina, Charleston, I've enjoyed myself in that area. But I would also point everyone to the fact that I live in the Atlanta, Georgia area, which is the transportation hub of the southeast. We've got the world's busiest airport, high capacity. We have approximately quite a few military aviation facilities. We've got one of the country's largest Diaspora communities from Africa. Superb infrastructure to support the military's communication needs. World-class educational institutions -- Georgia Tech, Emery, the Atlanta University Center; high quality of life for personnel who were assigned or who would be assigned to that area. And, I think that it would be a great thing. I know that Ambassador Andrew Young is very much interested in AFRICOM choosing to locate its headquarters in Atlanta. And I certainly join in that desire. If not Atlanta, then someplace in Georgia would be great. But I want to also congratulate you, General Ham, for your new assignment, four weeks in. I know that you're still trying to get adjusted and it seems like you came in at a time of great action going on in Africa with the Libyan situation. We've got a situation in the Ivory Coast. Now, I understand that President Gbagbo has resigned and is asking for U.N. assistance, or U.N. protection actually, and that's good that he will be moving on. I would like to ask you, are U.S. personnel or equipment taking part in the U.N. operations in the Ivory Coast? GEN. HAM: Congressman, we are not. We are in very close dialogue with the U.S. embassy and also with the French, who have a large presence in Cote d'Ivoire. As we typically do in the U.S. military, we plan for possible contingencies. And as the chairman mentioned, the security situation in Cote d'Ivoire had been deteriorating for some period of time, so we looked at a whole range of possible military actions that might be necessary. But, we have the people at the embassy are present. The ambassador has asked for a small coordinating team just to maintain communications and we've got that available to him as well. Your information is probably a little more current than mine, but as I was departing the Pentagon to come over here, we were at the situation where Mr. Gbagbo had indicated his apparent willingness to turn himself over. But, that had not yet been accomplished by the time I left. But, hopefully, that will be accomplished in [having] a calm return to Abidjan and to the country. It's sorely needed. REP. JOHNSON: Thank you, sir. And would you also update us on the progress toward increasing the professionalism and accountability of the forces in the Democratic Republic of Congo? GEN. HAM: Yes, sir. It's an ongoing effort. We have trained one battalion and we think that one battalion will perform pretty well. But, we think there's more that we can and should be doing to help Congo become a more professional military force, support the civil control and responding under international norms. But initial indications are pretty good, I think, but still certainly some work to be done. REP. JOHNSON: Thank you. General McNabb, I had questions, but Congressman Wilson kind of threw me off track there. So I'll get back to you at some point in the future. Thank you, gentlemen, for your service to the nation. REP. MAC THORNBERRY (R-TX): Thank you. The chair recognizes Mr. Kline for five minutes. REP. JOHN KLINE (R-MN): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And with all apologies to my colleagues from South Carolina and Georgia, most everybody knows that Minneapolis-St. Paul is roughly the transportation center of the entire world. (Laughter.) [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. KLINE: I am, too, General. Thank you. Thank you very much. If there's anything this committee can do, I trust you will communicate that to us. General Ham, I want to go back to the command structure for Operation Unified Protector, and I have a little thing here from Admiral Stavridis, I think, NATO sort of a command structure outline, and it says that we've got apparently Lieutenant General Jodice, American, Vice Admiral Rinaldo Veri -- I should put my glasses on, I'm sorry -- an Italian, and we've got a Canadian lieutenant general, and they're reporting to Admiral Stavridis, Supreme Allied Commander, Europe. You should have lobbied for a title like that. The question is: do you see your relationship as commander of AFRICOM as the same as General Mattis' is to General Petraeus and Admiral Stavridis? We're trying to -- the chairman asked you about that relationship, and you said that there might be a uniquely American operation where presumably you insert yourself into this chain of command and take U.S. forces and use them for in your example, it was a pickup of a downed pilot or something else. Just help me understand what your relationship is to this -- I know you don't have this -- but to this command structure that I've just described, which is a NATO command structure. GEN. HAM: Sir, it is quite analogous to what you described in Afghanistan, where in Afghanistan Admiral Stavridis in his NATO role overseeing General Petraeus, a NATO commander, supported by General Mattis, a United States geographic combatant commander. So that relationship is very similar to what we have here. I do not have a day-to-day operational role, but Libya is in the area of responsibility of U.S. Africa Command, so we have obviously an enduring interest. And when Operation Unified Protector is complete -- when the alliance decides that its missions have been accomplished -- then Libya is still in Africa Command's area of responsibility, so I remain very closely connected with Admiral Stavridis, Admiral Locklear and indeed the Canadian General Bouchard, who is a very competent commander. REP. KLINE: OK, thank you very much. I yield back. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. MIKE COFFMAN (R-CO): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] And General Ham, thanks for your service to our country. And congratulations on your recent command, taking over U.S. Africa Command. First of all, can you just share with me what the rationale was for putting it in Stuttgart, Germany when Central Command was your predecessor, and it deals with an area geographically further away than Africa, and yet they're in Florida? GEN. HAM: Yes, sir. Africa had been divided between European Command, which had the bulk of Africa, Central Command, which had Egypt and the Horn of Africa, and Pacific Command, which had the island nations and Madagascar. So there actually were three geographic combatant commands previously that divided the continent. But the majority was in European Command. And so when the decision was made to stand up Africa Command as a separate geographic command, the bulk of the resources were already in Stuttgart, the facilities were already in Stuttgart. So for purposes of getting the command off to an expeditious start that seemed to make a lot of sense. REP. COFFMAN: I understand. Now, in the situation in the Ivory Coast right now, where you have a constitutionally elected government that is not being permitted to assume the government, and you have a president-elect there that has not been allowed to assume his position in the government, that there's not been a peaceful transfer of power, were there any communications between that president-elect and your command in reference to any assistance? GEN. HAM: No, sir, only through the U.S. embassy. But it was specifically focused on U.S. missions, for example, planning for a noncombatant evacuation. REP. COFFMAN: I see. So there was virtually no communication whatsoever from this constitutionally elected government that was not able to assume power, to provide any assistance whatsoever? GEN. HAM: Sir, not with Africa Command, to the very best of my knowledge. REP. COFFMAN: Well, what you know -- how would you define your mission in Africa? Because if you cannot influence that situation in any way, you know, tell me how you define your mission. GEN. HAM: In Cote d'Ivoire, there was already a very large United Nations presence. It focused on [inaudible]. There were efforts under way through a variety of international and regional organizations to try to seek a solution to this other than through the application of military force. My sense is, that proceeded over the past couple of days as violence escalated. We saw the United Nations take a more forceful role and I think that's what, perhaps, compelled Mr. Gbagbo to decide that it was time to change. I think the best role that Africa Command plays in these situations is to try to prevent them, to try to work with the militaries and security forces of African states so that they are loyal to the duly-elected and constituted government -- which is not something we saw play out in this situation where we had forces loyal to both the duly-elected president and to the man who would not relinquish power. So, I think we can be more preventive rather than the application of military power, to displace the application of U.S. military power -- to displace someone in an African state. REP. THORNBERRY: Thank you, General. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. THORNBERRY: Thank you. The gentleman from Georgia Mr. Scott is recognized for five minutes. REP. AUSTIN SCOTT (R-GA): Thank you. General McNabb, General Ham, I represent Robins Air Force Base. And just to the south of me, I have Moody, and just to the west I have Fort Benning, and just to the east, I have Stewart. Both of the Air Force and the Army are extremely important to us. And as you look for additional commands, I think Georgia will be a -- you will find open and welcome arms there. REP. THORNBERRY: The gentlelady from Guam is recognized for five minutes. DEL. MADELEINE BORDALLO (D-GUAM): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I'd also like to welcome General McNabb and General Ham. Thank you for your testimonies. Well, earlier, you heard my colleagues speak about the great attributes of their states. Well, I represent the beautiful island of Guam. And if I were to tell you about all the advantages of living on a tropical island, it would take all day. So we'll put it off for another time. But Guam is the home of Andersen Air Force Base and Naval base. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] DEL. BORDALLO: Very good. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. REP. THORNBERRY: The gentleman from Texas Mr. Conaway is recognized for five minutes. REP. K. MICHAEL CONAWAY (R-TX): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm sitting here listening to some of my colleagues, and I feel like I've gone through a time warp back when earmarks were OK and mostly earmark requests going on for General Ham to move his command. So I'll refrain from doing that. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] REP. CONAWAY: General Ham, congratulations on the new command. Just a quick [inaudible]. When Gates was here last week, he said that one of the core missions of NATO that we would support would be the search and rescue. And maybe I misunderstood you to say that was an ad hoc thing that may occur. But it seemed to me that we were going to provide the search and rescue for the Libyan work. Did I misunderstand that? GEN. HAM: No, sir, you understood it correct. It is, it falls under the category of what we call unique U.S. military capabilities. And we probably were the best suited to do that. REP. CONAWAY: Are those your assets? GEN. HAM: For the most part, they are, yes, sir, with our Special Operations Command Africa. REP. CONAWAY: All right. Your budget request for 2012 is $289 million. How much out of hide is this Libyan operation going to cost you, assuming it goes past September or October 1st? GEN. HAM: Congressman, financially, it won't affect the headquarters very much, but where the cost is borne is with our service components, in this case, particularly the Air Force and Navy service component commands for AFRICOM who have sortied ships, aircraft and personnel at a rate higher than they were anticipating to do. REP. CONAWAY: OK. So they'll have to figure out some way to pay for that. That is not necessarily your responsibility. GEN. HAM: That's correct, sir. That burden will, through the service component commands, fall back to the services. REP. CONAWAY: OK. One of the advantages that we were told about AFRICOM was that you would, in effect, create long-term relationships between the mil-to-mil kind of things that would go on in these developing countries. Given it's a relatively young command still at this point in time, are you experiencing the kind of opportunity or availability to send folks back to the same countries on enough of a basis so that we are building relationships there that can be used in a crisis if we need them? GEN. HAM: I'm just learning about this, but in my first two trips to the continent, which were admittedly far too short, but to Djibouti and to Kenya, I, in fact, found exactly that circumstance, where U.S. service personnel had been back for repetitive assignments. And in those two cases, the Djiboutians and the Kenyans very welcoming of that, because it's people they know and understand. I think there's probably more that we can do in the future, and I'll look to do just that. REP. CONAWAY: Thanks, Chairman. Yield back. Thanks, General. REP. THORNBERRY: Thank you, Generals. [Discussion not related to U.S. Africa Command] General Ham, just a couple of questions for you. Just a few weeks ago, I had the privilege of being over at your command and had just gotten back from visiting several countries in Africa. And one of the things on every briefing that you would find is that there would be a host of arrows that would be drawn from all of the different operations that are going on, some of them by State Department, some of them by DOD. And the question that always puzzles me is: who is managing all the arrows? Who is the one authority that is making sure that we are not overlapping and that those missions are all coordinating in the right fashion? Can you shed a little bit of light on that for me as we see that overlap between State and DOD and all the various operations that we have going on in Africa? Who is ultimately managing that to make sure the jointness is done right? GEN. HAM: Yes, sir. Well, there isn't an overarching command that is in fact directing that. This is our interagency process at work. And each of us who participates in that has a responsibility. So me, at Africa Command, certainly Assistant Secretary Carson at State, the folks at the Office of the Secretary of Defense and then USAID and other agencies, what I think we've got to do is make sure we've got a forum through which the most senior folks can collaborate and make sure that we have in fact synchronized our efforts to the highest degree possible. My sense is probably a bit the same as yours, at least my initial blush at this is that, at least within the military side, I'm not sure that that's quite as tightly wound as it perhaps ought to be. And it is something that I'd like to take a look at as I begin my tenure. REP. THORNBERRY: And if you do take a look at that, if you would give us that information back as you examine it. Just two other quick questions. One of the other concerns I had was, in talking to the various players over there, one of the things we consistently heard from the State Department was, Defense doesn't do anything unless we OK it. That gave some of us just a little bit of concern as to the role that the State Department had and the role that the Department of Defense had. Can you tell us and explain a little bit about those two functions and how they're collaborating? GEN. HAM: Yes, sir, certainly. We would all agree that it's far better when State and Defense agree on a way ahead, in any particular matter. REP. THORNBERRY: That's given. GEN. HAM: But sometimes that's just not the case. But we have a mechanism, again, through our interagency process, through the national security staff, for the various departments to bring forward matters where there is perhaps some disagreement on the way ahead. I'm confident that, again, as I'm able to get started in this command and build the relationships with Secretary Carson, with others in the interagency, that those times will be few and far between where we'll have very strong disagreement. But where we do, I don't feel any reservation whatsoever about saying, I'm sorry, I just can't get to agreement on this. We need to take it into the interagency deliberative process to have disagreements adjudicated. We know how to do that. We do it all the time in our government. And I'm very comfortable inside that process. REP. THORNBERRY: Last question. What are the authorities granted to the U.S. chief's mission regarding combatant command activities in the countries to which they're posted? And do you believe that these authorities are sufficient? GEN. HAM: Sir, in general, they are. I mean, clearly, the chief of mission is the senior American representative. He is the representative of the president in those countries, and so our efforts are nested with the chief of mission. There may be some very unique circumstances where there would be a military effort that might require an authority other than the chief of mission. Those are probably addressed not in an open session. REP. THORNBERRY: OK. Well, I think we've had all our questions. Thank you so much for your service to our country and for your patience today and for sharing your experience and expertise with us. And this hearing is adjourned. END.