Sure.

...which has been a tradition, I guess, since the [Harry S] Truman Library,...

Great.

Good.

...you people will want to talk about. So, we just start with some very, very basic questions.

O.K.

No, no, no.

...in '72?

Before the election.

Yeah, I was a consultant to the Republican Convention. Then, after the convention, I was asked to became a part of the White House Staff. I think it was September the eleventh, 1972, that I became, officially, a part of the White House Staff.

Speechwriting, and general sort of idea-giving communications, particularly.

Were you assigned to the speechwriting staff?

At that time?

...at that time?

How did this coordinate with the speechwriting staff?

I coordinated with Ray [Raymond K.] Price. Ray was sort of the coordination point. At times he would brief me on things that the President was possibly going to speak about. At other times, if I heard it from any other source, I'd generally discuss it with Ray.

Were there any particular subject areas that you were covering, such as, even as general as just domestic policy, or...?

No, I really shouldn't put any particular label on it, because it wasn't done with that kind of emphasis.

Were you submitting speech drafts at the same time that there were others being submitted from...

Yes. Yes, I was. Exactly right.

...the speechwriting staff?

Exactly right, yes. I'd generally give it to Ray.

How did your input differ from what was being produced in that office?

No, unless I called for them myself. Unless I said, "Yeah, I'd like to find out about so and so. Could you send over some material?" But, generally, I didn't.

Under what circumstances did you do a draft for a speech? Who assigned a particular speech to you?

The strange thing, it just wasn't really my assignment. It would be something that I would be interested in. For instance, the Statue of Liberty address. I was involved in the decision regarding the Statue of Liberty appearance, so I then drafted a speech. It wasn't used [laughter]. But, uh, I'm just giving you that as sort of a typical example. I'm positive that, at the same time, Ray and his staff were doing exactly that. As a matter of fact, I know they were, because I showed him my draft and we sort of compared notes. I think, in the end, the President did an extemporaneous address. In fact, I know he did, because I was there. And, uh, I don't think he really used any of the material that was prepared for him. Maybe he used sane of Ray's, I don't know.

The Inauguration speech, I was asked to do a draft of my own, which I did. Which, to my delight, I found about one half of one sentence in the speech [laughter].

What, were you, in any way, connected with Ken [Kenneth W.] Clawson's staff...

...when you first came?

You mentioned that you made a recommendation on the Statue of Liberty appearance.

Hm hmm.

Did you also make recommendations on appearances that the President might make?

Hm hmm, hm hmm.

This was a routine activity for you?

These ideas that you mentioned, were they particularly around a media, since your background...

Yeah, right.

...was in communications?

It was really very carte blanche, but, generally, they focused on media, since that really was my area, prior to the time I came into the White House.

And could you give a few examples of type of...?

What, at the time that you did come over here, what was your staff? Did you have anyone working with you?

A secretary. That's all.

Just a secretary?

Yeah.

Correspondence section?

...correspondence section, yeah. Then, finally, when I was on to permanent, because, each time I was on, it kept on being lengthened. It was like, till after the election, then till after the Inauguration, and then, as you know, after the election, everyone wrote off their resignations. Then, it was held over to the Inauguration. Then, after the Inauguration, it was, well, it would be permanent. Then I got Carmel as my secretary.

Until that time you didn't anticipate an indefinite tenure in the White House?

Was there any significant change in your responsibilities after the Inauguration?

Did that, really, just evolve,...

It just evolved.

...or was it any kind of a conscious effort?

No.

[Unintelligible] to assign the....

Who did you coordinate with on these activities?

Again, it was very independent. I just sort of took it over. It started out, in the Autumn, I certainly wasn't giving it full time. It was just whenever something happened. Then, as time went on, into Winter and early Spring, from that time forward, it was really a full time job. I was still doing other things, but mainly that.

Right. Could you describe how this did evolve, as far as what...

As a full time job?

...types of activities you ended up doing?

Well, there were, literally, hundreds of people who called in and wanted to talk about support, or said that they had petitions that they wanted the President to accept. And, what I tried to do over the phone, particularly with those who wanted to visit with the President and have him accept the petitions, what I tried to do was feel out their sincerity, and how much work they did. There's a lot of people who just wanted to come and shake hands with the President. Sometimes it was difficult to determine who was the most worthy of coming to the White House. So, if someone called and said they went door to door, night after night, and got these petitions signed, and they didn't mention that they wanted to see the President, I was more inclined to think, "Well, that's probably a person who should," rather than the person who started out a conversation saying they wanted a visit with the President. It was tough, and it was unfair, at best. But it was all I could do.

Yeah, the White House operators, that if they didn't, yeah.

You said you did not have the correspondence...

No.

...of support the President groups directed to you?

Only the ones that were addressed to me. Alot of than were, most of them were addressed to the President, and I didn't handle them.

Where was that handled?

Correspondence.

Did you work with her?

Yes, I did. At times I did. Just depending on if there was something that she could help me with, or I could help her with. But it was, generally, as a pretty steadfast rule, all of the mail that was addressed to me, I answered. All the mail that was addressed to President Nixon, she took care of. In terms of those that were.... The way in which we coordinated, often I would get a letter that I thought was worthy of a response by President Nixon, rather than just me. So, then I would hand it over to Anne, who would then take care of filtering it.

Oh, yes, always, always, yeah.

At times, at times, hm hmm, yeah.

You mentioned the speaking. What type of speaking were you most involved in?

It was generally support the President kind of speaking. A lot of television engagements, sane radio engagements, and clubs, private groups, wherever I was invited I went.

How did you schedule that...?

Colleges and universities. Pardon?

Did you schedule those yourself, or...?

Is that Alvin Snyder's office?

You just responded then independently?

Sure, sure, yeah, hm hmm.

Practically all of it, almost all of it, was related to charges against the President or the administration. What we call "Watergate."

Was that in the form of just keeping track of what they were putting together?

Or helped handle any of the mailings that might have been coming from the communications office?

No, no, never. Un uh, no.

That's true of speeches, yeah.

...other than the President's?

On consumer affairs?

What type of work were you doing with USIA from here?

Well, at that time, I was coordinating with Gordon Strachan, when he was there. Then, after he left, I didn't coordinate at all. By coordination, all I did was give them my opinion about things that were going on in the agency, and what I felt should be going on in the agency. Also, the American Film Institute, I coordinated with them. George Stevens, Jr., because I was once on the board of trustees, and because I'm a good friend of George's, and because motion pictures was also my background.

[Unintelligible].

In what capacity?

No, I didn't.

Did they have anything to do with that?

No, not really, no. It was an American Film Institute event. But, because the President was going to be there, and because the President was going to give the Medal of Freedom, it sort of became a joint effort. But it was an American Film Institute event.

Oh, I see.

In other words, they were sending out the invitations, it wasn't the White House sending out invitations.

Right. You mentioned the coordination with USIA, and I was wondering if that was in the form of more technical coordination, or whether this was a matter of making recommendations on their programs?

Yes, it was the latter, not the former. More recommendations on their programs.

You had been there just before coming to the White House.

I know you had one activity in the past couple of years coordinating with the National Archives. When you participated in the program that they had with Charles Guggenheim.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. On propaganda. On films and propaganda, that's right, yeah.

Of course, that's our parent.

Sure, I know it is. Yeah, that's right.

Right.

Were there any other projects that just came as a result of your being here? I know so many people on the staff do things that they never anticipated doing,...

Sure, sure.

...or that it wasn't in their job description. It's not like....

Well, I don't think my job description ever said anything about what I eventually ended up doing. Which was the support group coordination, speaking, and in fact, I don't even know if there was ever a job description written.

Whatever it was, it was probably pretty loose. Also, writing articles for magazines and newspapers, which I did. It was sort of a, as it was explained to me when I came in, and it certainly retained exactly that status, it was sort of a drifting position. Wherever I felt I could be of use, or someone felt that they wanted to call on me for something.

I know that most of these support groups, obviously, because of the nature of their activity, they were voluntarily coming in and asking for same kind of an audience in the White House, in one form or another.

Hm hmm.

I don't mean, necessarily, asking for Presidential visits. They just wanted to be heard.

Yeah, right.

Did you have any form of soliciting this kind of activity, or...?

No, none. None. The only thing that would happen, if I'd bring them into the Oval office, we'd invite the White House Press Corps to photograph, or sometimes have those people talk to the people after they had gotten out of the Oval Office. Something like that. But that's all I could think of, in terms of publicity.

Did you make recommendations to other people on the White House staff, trying to greet same of these supporters who were coming in?

Very rarely. If they couldn't see the President, I'm afraid they were stuck with me [laughter]. So, that's the way that it went, generally. Or, if I was out of town, I'd ask someone to do it. John Nidecker, Dave Parker, Terry [Terence] O'Donnell, Guthrie. But, I'd say, by and large, it was either the President or me. Most of them were much happier to visit with the President.

Did you coordinate with any other people on the staff when writing articles?

No, unh uh.

Do you have any idea what percentage of your time was spent with the Support the President groups?

Probably, towards the last half year, I'd say, eighty-five percent of my time, maybe ninety, was either spent with them in one fashion or another.

Right.

Here, on the phone, or out speaking, or,...

Right, yeah, yeah. Probably ninety.

And, I was wondering if you, by any chance, have a, any kind of a log of all of the articles that were published. [Unintelligible].

Yeah, I do, but it's just, I haven't written it out, I just.... Why don't I just say what it is, O.K.? Well, no, there's too many of then.

Would it be in your files?

No, I didn't keep files on it. I've had them in the Washington Post--I'll just very briefly read this off--the Evening Star.... The Washington Post, Evening Star, Newsweek magazine, New York Times, Human Events, Saturday Evening Post, Newsday, Newsday, New York Times, Chicago  Tribune, Washingtonian, Chicago Tribune, Evening Star, Human  Events, and then Publisher's Hall Syndicate. That's basically it, yeah.

Going through the index of any of those for the past two years would certainly come up with all of the articles [unintelligible] ....

Excuse me. Here, let me give you a couple from Human  Events. Got them. March 10, '73 and April the twenty-first, '73.

O.K.

I'm sorry, go ahead.

I'm kind of skipping around, I guess, but were there particular groups of supporters with whom you worked more frequently?

Yeah, Rabbi [Baruch M.] Korff's Citizen's Committee to Defend the Presidency.

Did you coordinate on that dinner also?

Yeah, on both dinners. He had a dinner, excuse me, he had a luncheon and then he had a dinner. I did the coordination on both of those events. Practically anything that Rabbi Korff got involved in. He did a book and I worked on the book with him. I think you'd call it editing, probably. Yeah, that would be the name for what I did. Chapter titles I did, and the book title I did, and those kind of things. I wrote a thing in it too, about the author, on the back cover. The book was called The Personal Nixon: Staying on  the Summit.

Yeah, that's right, that's right, yeah, yeah.

Then you probably also coordinated his meetings with the President.

I did, I did, that's right, that's right.

Were you involved in his decision to write the book?

Well, it was something he wanted to do. I certainly didn't try to discourage him [laughter].

O.K. Where would a record of your activities be found? I know that you have your office files.

Yeah.

No, I don't think so.

Not really.

Did you use Central Files?

Those mysterious people...

Were you [laughter].

...were archivists that were trying to collect this material so that when it was shipped out, we got it all packed up and ready to go, we hope.

Hm hmm.

We sometimes wonder it we'll ever get it all. Were there any areas that you feel that you would like to talk about in more depth in an oral history project, if there is one conducted on the Nixon administration? Either in more philosophical areas, or specific events that you may have participated in?

There's a great deal. But, I guess, everything would probably be in the articles that I wrote 'cause what I generally did, when I had some kind of thought regarding the administration, or the charges against the administration, or the charges against the President, I either wrote it in a speech, or in an article. I don't even know if you have them all. If you don't, I'll see that you do. So they're preserved for [laughter] ....

Sure. One thing I didn't ask you, you were talking about speech drafts for the President. How were those submitted to the President, and where would they have ended up in the files?

My God, they're all different, at all different times. Some of them to Ray Price, some of then to Bob Haldeman, some of them to Dwight Chapin, some of them to General Haig, some of than to President Nixon. Depending upon the mood of the time.

Are there copies of all of then in your files?

Would they be identified in the file?

I don't know. Do you mean my files?

In your files, even, as to which ones were submitted...?

You know, I honestly can't answer that. I just don't know. If there are those that are written that so obviously are "presidential,"...

Sure.

Did you have any opportunity to have contact with the President--I know that you did escort some of these supporting groups in.

Not really, except, well.... The day prior to his announced resignation, I had a meeting alone with him. About a half hour, I suppose, something like that. Then, of course, all of the general support meetings.

Well, I think [unintelligible]....

Oh, no.

I think there was an article commenting on that.

Was there? That I had tried to do that?

Hm hmm.

Maybe it was in the Post.

In the Post?

Oh, really?

I'll check on it and get a copy for you.

Gee, I'd love to, yeah, I'd love to know, yeah. It was an absolutely marvelous meeting and there's no question in my mind that he resigned for what he believed to be the good of the country. But it was something that I felt the other way about. But, I lost.

Well, four days after President Nixon resigned, I sent my letter of resignation to President [Gerald R.] Ford. Within it, just looking at the stack of material that I had on my desk, and the supporters I had to call back, and so on, I wrote in my letter that I'd selected the arbitrary date of September the fifteenth, and I'd leave earlier if he wanted me to, or a little later if he wanted me to. Something like that, I said. Then, I received a letter back, and no date was specified, but I want to keep to the original intent of September fifteenth. So. I figure this coming Friday is the thirteenth (Friday the thirteenth), and since Sunday's on the fifteenth, so, I plan on Friday being my last day.

Well, we find that most people here, family addresses are much more secure [laughter].

Yes, you're so right, you're so right.

Yes.

Dr. Herbert L. Herschensohn, and my mother's name is Mrs. Ida E.

I know that we were talking about all of the articles that you have written.

Hm hmm.

Are there any particularly good articles or, for that matter.,...

Oh, they're all terrific!

Oh, about me?

Yes, about you.

Yes. Yeah, there were.

Your activities. Which you feel are....

Yeah, there were a number of them. None of them accurate, but [laughter] ....

Well, would you like to dispel any inaccuracies?

No, it's O.K. That would take much too long. Wall Street Journal had a very large article about me. It was this year, it was 1974. I just don't remember when.

Was that relatively accurate [unintelligible]?

O.K. So they did talk with you [laughter].

Yes, yes.

Not positive yet, not positive. No.

If we need a forwarding address, we'll have to send it to your parent's, I guess.

Hm hmm, hm hmm.

Yeah, I do. I can give it to you.

If you already have one handy.

I can give it to you right now.

Then I'll talk to you a little bit about your files. I think there were some things that you....