Conan O’Brien recently included the following in his monologue: “The Mayor of Newark, NJ wants to set up a city wide program to improve resident’s health. The health care program would consist of a bus ticket out of Newark.”
Cory Booker, the mayor of Newark, responded with this humorous video and jokingly informed Conan he’d been added to the No Fly list for Newark’s EWR airport.
I knew right away this was a joke, (a pretty funny one I thought) but after reading some comments around the blogosphere, it seems that some are buying this gag. First off, airports don’t operate on individual No Fly lists. The No Fly list encompasses all airports.
Also, the mayor of Newark – or any elected official for that matter - cannot add somebody to the No Fly list. It is a much more stringent process. The FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center has to add you to their Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB), and they can’t do that unless you are known or appropriately suspected to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism are included in the TSDB per the Homeland Security Presidential Directive 6. (HSPD-6.)
So, if you’re not familiar with the No Fly list, you’re probably wondering what it’s all about.
From the TSA FAQ Section: The No Fly list is a list of individuals who are prohibited from boarding an aircraft. The "Selectee" list is a list of individuals who must undergo additional security screening before being permitted to board an aircraft. After 9/11 the Terrorist Screening Center (TSC) was created through a Presidential Directive to be administered by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, in cooperation with the Departments of Homeland Security, Defense, State, and Treasury, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency. The purpose for the TSC is to consolidate terrorism based watch lists in one central database, the Terrorist Screening Center Database (TSDB), and make that data available for use in screening. Intelligence and law enforcement agencies nominate individuals to be put on the watch list based on established criteria, with the list maintained by the TSC. TSA's No Fly and Selectee lists are subsets of the TSDB and are maintained by the TSC.”
The terror watch lists keep legitimate terror threats off of airplanes every day, all over the world. According to the GAO, terror watch lists have "helped combat terrorism" and "enhanced U.S. counterterrorism effort."
If you think you are on the No Fly list, let me ask you this question: Have you obtained a boarding pass? If so, you are not on the No Fly list. If you obtained a boarding pass and an airline employee told you that you were are on the list, they were mistaken. Your name was probably a match or a similar match to the name of somebody actually on the list. Have you flown? You would not be allowed on a flight if you were on the No Fly list.
This is a good opportunity for me to segue into Secure Flight. Secure Flight is a behind the scenes program that streamlines the watch list matching process. It will improve the travel experience for all passengers, including those who have been misidentified in the past. In fact, Secure flight will reduce mismatched names by 99.9%.
Contrary to popular belief, Conan regulars Eyeballs O'Shaughnessy, Todd the Tiny Guy, Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, and La Bamba, are not on the No Fly list.
Key Takeaways:
-Mayor Booker was joking and did not place Conan on the No Fly list
-If you are able to obtain a boarding pass, you are not on the No Fly list
-Secure Flight will reduce mismatched watch list names by 99.9%
Thanks,
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
62 comments:
How could you possibly think that it was more important to address this "issue" before issuing a comment on the Jason Chaffetz incident?
I'm leaving for the day, but I'll moderate later on tonight. So, it may be a few hours before your comment goes live.
Thanks!
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
So Bob, those reporters a couple years back who wrote up reports critical of TSA were lying to the rest of us when they reported back that all of them had been put on the no fly list?
Bob, years ago it was pretty hard to verify facts. These days the search engines can do a job that used to take several days in just a matter of seconds.
Hello,
So what is the name of the list that one might be on if they consistently get the dreaded SSSS written on their boarding pass?
And what does SSSS stand for anyway?
You said that the FBI can't add someone to the list "unless...", but given the fact that there's absolutely zero oversight, and zero due process behind that, how can we possibly believe that to be true? The FBI can add someone for any reason or no reason at all.
I realize that the TSA itself does not maintain the no-fly list. But that doesn't stop me from believing it's a terrible, unconstitutional and un-American thing.
Besides, if someone on the no-fly list has properly been screened by your TSOs, and is shown to have no weapons or any other items that can harm an aircraft, what is the harm in having that person on the plane? What can they possibly do?
I realize this is a joke, but you can't blame people for believing it. I mean, after all the crazy stories of people mistakenly on the list, can you blame us for thinking it's some stupid and arbitrary process that gets people there?
Punishing people for terrorist activity should be left up to judges and juries. Punishing them because they are suspected of committing terrorist acts is unconstitutional.
Haven't we learned that blacklists are bad?
--
Phil
Add your own questions at TSAFAQ.net
Isn't it amazing what some people will believe? I think it was hilarious, but then again I get accused of having a darker sense of humor.
West
TSA Blog Team
Here is the press release on the secure flight program:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/12449281/Secure-Flight-Program-Ad-Campaign
Was the Najibullah Zazi (the alledged terror suspect) on the NO-FLY LIST?
If not, then the program is flawed.
If he was, why was he allowed to fly?
GSOLTSO said...
Isn't it amazing what some people will believe? I think it was hilarious, but then again I get accused of having a darker sense of humor.
West
TSA Blog Team
October 2, 2009 7:46 PM
..................
West, people believe things like this because TSA and it's employees have earned a reputation that makes stuff like this believable.
That's the sad fact of the matter!
Mr. Zazi was one of those people that the FBI enlists in terror schemes then "catches" them in the act. It would be counter-productive to put them on a terror watch list. These people are under FBI control and aren't going to cause any problems.
Anonymous said...
Was the Najibullah Zazi (the alledged terror suspect) on the NO-FLY LIST?
If not, then the program is flawed.
If he was, why was he allowed to fly?
October 3, 2009 8:49 AM
.............
It has been reported that no known terrorist are on the list.
So who is?
I have followed the Zazi case and never heard a single mention that he got onto an airplane. He drove to New York. When did anyone ever claim he was on the NO FLY List or that he got onto an airplane after coming on to the FBI's radar?
Blogger Bob:
I highly doubt the Secure Flight program will reduce mismatches by 99.9%. Is that a figure you pulled from your hat? I'd liken that to the fact that my new, updated, fancy & expensive OFAC screening application will actually reduce my false-positive list by the claimed 75% ChoicePoint claims -- yeah right.
So, by adding DOB to the name combo, you are arriving at 99.9 percent less matches? I think not.
And besides, it all comes down to the local drivers license office: if, in the small town of Podunk, Ohio, some terrorist can get a DL by virtual of passing some forged documents, that person is no longer on the "No Fly" list - simple as that. Unfortunately for those unfortunate enough to be in the Vegas black book, life isn't so easy. Which is ironical in itself.
-East
RB sez - "West, people believe things like this because TSA and it's employees have earned a reputation that makes stuff like this believable.
That's the sad fact of the matter!"
I would beg to differ, it was a known comedic set-up and response. If you are going to Conan or other late night show hosts for world or national event information without humor, you are probably not based too firmly in reality. Now, had say, ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox reported on their major news outlets that this was occuring without the appropriate comedic setup, then the misunderstanding could be better explained.
West
TSA Blog Team
I think by now we know the difference between the "no fly" list and the "you will get groped heavily" list.
By the way, what is the name of the "extra groping SSSS" list? That way we can refer to it properly and you will have to answer questions about it (ha ha) instead of simply repeating the mantra "there is no no-fly list".
GSOLTSO said...
RB sez - "West, people believe things like this because TSA and it's employees have earned a reputation that makes stuff like this believable.
That's the sad fact of the matter!"
I would beg to differ, it was a known comedic set-up and response. If you are going to Conan or other late night show hosts for world or national event information without humor, you are probably not based too firmly in reality. Now, had say, ABC, NBC, CBS or Fox reported on their major news outlets that this was occurring without the appropriate comedic setup, then the misunderstanding could be better explained.
West
TSA Blog Team
October 3, 2009 11:30 AM
.......................
The first step to a path of wellness is to admit there is a problem.
Denial keeps to you locked to habits of the past.
The fact that TSA felt a need to make a post about this and the fact that some people did think the report was true weakens your argument severely.
Keep telling yourself that TSA is doing a fine job and everyone is extremely please with how TSA treats people. I'm sure you will be promoted at every opportunity. Just don't look behind you, Congress is closing in and there are going to be changes at TSA in the near future.
Anonymous wrote:
"I have followed the Zazi case and never heard a single mention that he got onto an airplane. He drove to New York. When did anyone ever claim he was on the NO FLY List or that he got onto an airplane after coming on to the FBI's radar?"
He flew back to CO from NY after questioning by the FBI and prior to his arrest. Further, one or two alleged accomplices, who I believe I have read that the FBI has lost track of, flew back and forth between CO and NY while this alleged scheme was being hatched.
How's it feel to know that absurd TSA and immigration procedures helped cost Chicago that Olympic bid? Karma's fun.
RB said...
It has been reported that no known terrorist are on the list.
_______________________________
by who? you? just now? in that sentence?
I love it when you post! You are so entertaining and full of fun 'facts'!
So what is the name of the list that one might be on if they consistently get the dreaded SSSS written on their boarding pass?
Selectee.
Putting someone on the no fly list is a heck of a thing to be joking about.
I remember news reports of law enforcement agencies entering political activists into some sort of database, which promptly translated into their having difficulties at the airport. I also remember one of CNN's anchors having trouble right after doing a story critical of the TSA. Coincidence?
So much for due process....
Mark
qui custodiet ipsos custodes
RB wrote:
It has been reported that no known terrorist are on the list.
Anonymous responded:
By who? you? just now? in that sentence? I love it when you post! You are so entertaining and full of fun 'facts'!
It's been reported elsewhere ... like in this 60 Minutes report:
Cathy Berrick, the Director of Homeland Security and Justice Issues for the General Accounting Office told Kroft that the lists that the airlines get have been sanitized of the most sensitive information.
"They're not given all of the names for security reasons because the government doesn't want to have that information outside of the government," Berrick says.
RB sez - "The first step to a path of wellness is to admit there is a problem.
Denial keeps to you locked to habits of the past.
The fact that TSA felt a need to make a post about this and the fact that some people did think the report was true weakens your argument severely.
Keep telling yourself that TSA is doing a fine job and everyone is extremely please with how TSA treats people. I'm sure you will be promoted at every opportunity. Just don't look behind you, Congress is closing in and there are going to be changes at TSA in the near future."
Ahhh, now we come to the root of your problem. You have locked yourself in denial and try to foist it off on me! Don't worry, noone knows about it, we will just keep it our little secret...
I on the other hand, have admitted to the agency having problems. I have pointed out many areas that we have that provide the opportunity for improvement, and have offered constructive ideas and solutions to those problems, you do not. Usually you screech the same four or five questions, and demand that all operations that you dislike stop immediately. This is not constructive, it is destructive. I welcome Congressional oversight on most areas of the agency because it helps to generate the accountability and direction needed in some areas. It also allows the representatives of the people a chance to shape the direction of the organization. I am not scared of any kind of oversight, because it offers us a chance to work on the shortcomings, and magnify the successes. The easiest thing I see where the agency can make improvement across the board is a more standardized version of the process (for example, going through LAX should be the same as going through GSO - essentially).
First off, why does the TSA have a blog...or why did someone create a blog for it? That is stupid.
I am a pilot. Let me say that.
I googled Conan O'Brien, and this came up....
You all need lives. Off the "TSA Blog". and, No-Fly lists keep suspected terrorists off US aircraft, there is nothing "unconstitutional" about it. I hate people who stick the same ol' story, such as the race card, and the constitution. Just because it is your opinion that something is unconstitutional, it doesn't mean it is. Get a life!
By the way, what is the name of the "extra groping SSSS" list?
Not that any of you have been on that list in the last 5 months, but it stands for Selectee-Selectee-Selectee-Selectee. Not that it matters much...
How many names are on the no fly list?
How many names are on the selectee list?
How does secure flight help? If a person knows they are listed, they can avoid matching by adding a fake date of birth when booking (birth dates are not printed on the boarding pass, so the declared information is never checked against the ID!). They can also get fake ID. This is the most leaky layer of security ever created!!
Bob said:
The FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center has to add you to their Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB), and they can’t do that unless you are known or appropriately suspected to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism are included in the TSDB per the Homeland Security Presidential Directive 6. (HSPD-6.)
---------------------------------
So, Bob, care to explain what a four year child has done that got the FBI in a tizzy?
Rob Pugh said...
How's it feel to know that absurd TSA and immigration procedures helped cost Chicago that Olympic bid? Karma's fun.
Rob, please learn of which you speak. TSA plays no role in people entering our country. Only those leaving. It sounds like you seem to be one of those people on the left who will take no responsibility... it is always someone else's fault. Maybe Rio was a better choice... maybe like a growing number of us the IOC doesn't like BO... whatever it is, Chicago didn't get it, I'm happy about that.... but it wasn't TSAs fault.
Bob,
If I suspect someone, how can I report him to the unnamed watch list?
Anonymous said...
Rob, please learn of which you speak. TSA plays no role in people entering our country. Only those leaving.
--------------------------------
Really? So I arrive at an International terminal in city XXXX, and have a connecting flight in the domestic terminal. So what you are saying is that I will not have to go through TSA security to catch my domestic flight. That is GREAT to hear.
Or maybe it is you that needs to learn of which you speak.
Going though customs and going through TSA are two different things... one could probably argue that Customs turns more people away than TSA on any day. That being said, if people uninformed people like you like you are unable to get a direct fight form anywhere in the world to Chicago, you have bigger problems. If you read what I wrote, I said TSA has plays no role with people entering our country. True statement. TSA screens people who have entered and are looking to fly domestically. LEARN ANYTHING?
Anon said...
"Rob, please learn of which you speak. TSA plays no role in people entering our country. Only those leaving."
...............
Anon what role does TSA play in regards to people leaving the country?
Honest question.
How about addressing some real questions regarding no-fly-list abuse?
1) Did Napolitano's TSA add AZ state treasurer Dean Martin (or a name close enough to his to cause false positives) to the no-fly list out of political retaliation? The first time Martin flew after Obama took office, he suddenly started having no-fly problems.
2) Did the Bush-administration TSA add CNN reporter Drew Griffin (or a name close enough to his to cause false positives) to the no-fly list as retaliation for an unfavorable article written about TSA?
The problem with an unaccountable secret blacklist with no effective redress and no due process is that it is ripe for abuse. Even if the abuse doesn't actually happen, there is the perception that it could. And I find both of these cases highly suspicious and personally believe that someone at some level did add these two people to the no-fly list. What will the punishment be if someone is caught politically or personally abusing the no-fly list? What if the person committing the abuse is a high-level official?
Why must I inform my height and weight in order to submit a selectee list redress form?
What is the percentage of persons who effectively are eliminated from the selectee list after submitting redress forms?
How are names collected for inclusion in selectee forms?
Why are there persons out there who are too dangerous to fly without being invasively searched, but safe enough to drive, enter supermarkets, movie theaters, shopping malls etc, without extra scrutiny?
I am all for some brevity, but do we have to make jokes about something like this.
What are the determining factors for the no-fly list anyway? Is it something that someone in power can just put your name on? This seems a bit scary to me.
RB said...
It has been reported that no known terrorist are on the list.
-------------
Reported by whom RB? National Enquirer? According to 60 Minutes there are many suspected terrorists on the list. Care to comment about their reporting?
Rob Pugh said...
How's it feel to know that absurd TSA and immigration procedures helped cost Chicago that Olympic bid? Karma's fun
----------------
Really Rob? I suppose the TSA is responsible for sunspots and black cats as well, right?
Jim Huggins said...
It's been reported elsewhere ... like in this 60 Minutes report:
Cathy Berrick, the Director of Homeland Security and Justice Issues for the General Accounting Office told Kroft that the lists that the airlines get have been sanitized of the most sensitive information.
"They're not given all of the names for security reasons because the government doesn't want to have that information outside of the government," Berrick says.
----------------------
And your point Jim? According to the link you provide 60 Minutes confirms that there are quite a few known as well as suspected terrorists on the list. Hmmm, just a curious coincidence?
Bubbaloop said...
This is the most leaky layer of security ever created!!
--------------------
And I hope that the terrorists think the same way you do. All the easier to catch them before they can board an aircraft.
Bob, reports are surfacing that people you refuse the MMW STRIP SEARCH machine are being subjected to agressive enhanced patdowns.
Is this the correct policy?
Also reported that no signage is present at Houston IAH Terminal E for the STRIP SEARCH machine.
So just what the heck is going on here?
Is this TSA's way to intimidate people into accepting a STRIP SEARCH?
Anonymous raised a valid point when they said:
Why are there persons out there who are too dangerous to fly without being invasively searched, but safe enough to drive, enter supermarkets, movie theaters, shopping malls etc, without extra scrutiny?
Bob stated in his post:
The FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center has to add you to their Terrorist Screening Database (TSDB), and they can’t do that unless you are known or appropriately suspected to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism are included in the TSDB per the Homeland Security Presidential Directive 6. (HSPD-6.)
This does not make any sense. If the FBI knows about these individuals and their bad behavior, why are they not tracked down and arrested?
Letting them freely walk around puts innocent people at risk.
As Anonymous alluded to, are these people ONLY dangerous when they fly?
If a person is a known terrorist, and the government knowingly allows that person to freely go about their business, and only is worried when/if they fly, then those agencies should be charged with "dereliction of duty".
Anonymous said...
"1) Did Napolitano's TSA add AZ state treasurer Dean Martin (or a name close enough to his to cause false positives) to the no-fly list out of political retaliation? The first time Martin flew after Obama took office, he suddenly started having no-fly problems."
How is he on the no-fly list if he was able to fly? Mr. Martin himself said, "It took me two and a half hours to get through security when I first discovered this."
http://www.kpho.com/travelgetaways/20068895/detail.html
Seems to me he was on the Selectee list.
Drew Griffen was never on the no-fly list. Watch his own news report. He was on the selectee list, called a "watch list" in the video. Yet is often reported he was/is on the no-fly list, despite the fact that he even says its more difficult for him to fly - FLY. If he was on the no-fly list, he wouldn't fly at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qr5EsCoz5s
When people make jokes about something, they usually are saying they think it is worth making fun of.
Anonymous wrote:
How is he on the no-fly list if he was able to fly? Mr. Martin himself said, "It took me two and a half hours to get through security when I first discovered this."
...
Seems to me he was on the Selectee list.
Drew Griffen was never on the no-fly list. Watch his own news report. He was on the selectee list, ... If he was on the no-fly list, he wouldn't fly at all.
Notice how I used the phrase "or a name close enough to his to cause false positives" to preempt your argument, which is typically used by TSA apologists. I'm sick and tired of TSA apologists saying someone "isn't on the no fly list" after it took them hours to get a boarding pass and/or go through TSA (SSSSelectee screening takes a few minutes, not a few hours.). TSA's word-smithing is as bad on the NFL as it is on denying that they confiscate items.
If someone named "David Nelson" is on the NFL or SSSS list, and everyone named David Nelson suffers inconvenience every time they travel, then it is still wrong.
Maybe AZ-treasurer "Dean Martin" and CNN reporter "Drew Griffin" weren't added to the NFL. But maybe Obama's/Napolitano's TSA added "Dean Martin" with a different DOB or "Dean Marton" with the same DOB to the NFL, knowing that the near-match would cause Napolitano's political enemy to suffer hassle. Maybe Bush's TSA added "Drew Griffen" (sic) to the NFL knowing it would cause delays to the reporter Drew Griffin who they didn't like.
Since the content of the blacklist is secret and there is no due process or effective means of redress for false positives, let alone actual matches, we don't know what happened. That is exactly why any denial of liberty such as taking away the ability to fly should require due process in an impartial court, and US citizen who has been denied that liberty should be able to challenge the denial and hear the evidence against them in *open* court. Anything less is disgusting an un-American.
Anonymous said...
edited...
"Notice how I used the phrase "or a name close enough to his to cause false positives" to preempt your argument, which is typically used by TSA apologists. I'm sick and tired of TSA apologists saying someone "isn't on the no fly list" after it took them hours to get a boarding pass and/or go through TSA (SSSSelectee screening takes a few minutes, not a few hours.). TSA's word-smithing is as bad on the NFL as it is on denying that they confiscate items.
If someone named "David Nelson" is on the NFL or SSSS list, and everyone named David Nelson suffers inconvenience every time they travel, then it is still wrong.
Maybe AZ-treasurer "Dean Martin" and CNN reporter "Drew Griffin" weren't added to the NFL. But maybe Obama's/Napolitano's TSA added "Dean Martin" with a different DOB or "Dean Marton" with the same DOB to the NFL, knowing that the near-match would cause Napolitano's political enemy to suffer hassle. Maybe Bush's TSA added "Drew Griffen" (sic) to the NFL knowing it would cause delays to the reporter Drew Griffin who they didn't like.
Since the content of the blacklist is secret and there is no due process or effective means of redress for false positives, let alone actual matches, we don't know what happened. That is exactly why any denial of liberty such as taking away the ability to fly should require due process in an impartial court, and US citizen who has been denied that liberty should be able to challenge the denial and hear the evidence against them in *open* court. Anything less is disgusting an un-American."
------------------------
Your preemptive tactic doesn't really work does it? Why? Despite what you say about how long it takes to get a ticket or get through the checkpoit, these people were not on the no-fly list.
Think of me as an apologist, if you want. But I will tell you I am not apologizing. I am simply stating to whoever post the original questions: get your facts right.
No apology there.
If you are going to be critical of TSA, fine, by all means do it. But if you want your argument to carry weight, know what your talking about.
Its an altogether different matter to talk about someone being on the no-fly list and someone on the selectee list. If you can't see the difference, thats your problem.
Another thing, before you start to lament what happening to this country - "there is no due process or effective means of redress for false positives" (as you state) - I suggest you learn about this country.
Can you show me anywhere where a person who finds themselves on one of these list can not bring the TSA to court? If you find yourself on the no-fly list, or the selectee list, sue. You have every right to do it; that is a means of due process, and despite what you think, you and everyone else has the right to do so.
Now, you may not win in court, but that does not mean you do not have that right.
But back to my original point. I do not know if it was you who post the original questions I responded to, but that does not matter. Why would someone ask about a particular person being on the no-fly list when it is known that the person was NOT on the no-fly list because they flew? I think Bob has made it pretty clear that if you or anyone is able to get a ticket then you are not on the no-fly list. Simple as that.
I was not apologizing, or saying this or that about TSA policy. I made a simple statement - which maybe you didn't get, which may be my fault - so I will make it again:
These 2 men cited were not on the no-fly list. Period (btw, one of them is a reporter for CNN, and he can't even seem to get his facts straight about which list he was on, which calls into question the quality and reliability of his new reports).
For those of you who were commenting on the lack of signage at IAH, I contacted the Public Affairs Officer for TSA Texas and was provided with photographic evidence that the signs are there.
Go Here to see the pics.
Thanks,
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
Bob said...
For those of you who were commenting on the lack of signage at IAH, I contacted the Public Affairs Officer for TSA Texas and was provided with photographic evidence that the signs are there.
Go Here to see the pics.
Thanks,
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
October 7, 2009 3:37 PM
...................................So how long did it take for PAO TSA Texas to get the signs in place before taking these pictures?
and Blogger Bob knocks it out of the park and the crowd goes....silent? Those are some very nicely placed easy to read vived signs you have their Bob as I figured would be placed at every checkpoint.
"Really Rob? I suppose the TSA is responsible for sunspots and black cats as well, right?"
http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/chicagos-loss-is-passport-control-to-blame/
I think Conan wrote this so he can take himself off the no fly list to ewr... lol
http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/chicagos-loss-is-passport-control-to-blame/
Not really sure what that link has to do with TSA since CBP is in charge of incoming travelers from other contries, TSA is only in charge of outgoing travelers getting on board planes.
Anonymous at
October 5, 2009 2:33 PM said: That being said, if people uninformed people like you like you are unable to get a direct fight form anywhere in the world to Chicago, you have bigger problems. If you read what I wrote, I said TSA has plays no role with people entering our country. True statement. TSA screens people who have entered and are looking to fly domestically. LEARN ANYTHING?
and
TSOWilliamReed said:
http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/chicagos-loss-is-passport-control-to-blame/
Not really sure what that link has to do with TSA since CBP is in charge of incoming travelers from other contries, TSA is only in charge of outgoing travelers getting on board planes.
___________
Well, yes, anonymous, I did learn something. I learned that you and William need to get out more and that you really need to get some training. The world is a much bigger place than either of you imagine. THERE ARE NO direct flights to Chicago from, for example, Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa. None from Moscow. It's just way too far for a single flight. There are nearly 200 countries in the world. I'm sure there are some others that don't have direct flights to Chicago. Passengers from those places arrive at somewhere like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Atlanta or Newark, then GO THROUGH TSA SCREENING for a connecting flight to Chicago. And when they leave, they go through TSA screening in Chicago and again at whatever other city they have to transit.
I'm sure not a lot of people fly into Ketchikan on their way to somewhere else, but it doesn't mean that foreign visitors don't go through other airports on their way to destinations in the US. As I said, you guys need to get out more.
And even if passengers only had to go through TSA screening once when leaving Chicago, that would be enough exposure to TSA to give a lot of people a bad impression.
I know lots of people overseas who have decided NEVER to visit the US again while TSA is doing airport "security." So yes, I can believe that bad experiences with TSA were part of the decision by the Olympic committee not to choose Chicago for 2016.
Rob Pugh said...
"Really Rob? I suppose the TSA is responsible for sunspots and black cats as well, right?"
http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/chicagos-loss-is-passport-control-to-blame/
------------------------
I’m sorry to tell you this Rob, but the TSA has nothing to do with flights arriving at an airport. Departing, yes, but not arriving. I believe your argument would be most appropriately directed to the folks at Customs. That is a different division of the Department of Homeland Security.
Question for William Reed.
I've never been to Ketchican although my dad worked on a small boat there shortly after WWII. He speaks highly of his time in Alaska and how great the people treated him.
I'm curious though about how many people transit the TSA checkpoints at your airport on an average day.
Looking at the airport from Google Earth shows a fairly small one runway airport. On average how many flights that have to clear TSA operate per day? I'm not looking for an exact number just a rough guesstimate.
Isaac Newton said...
Anonymous at
October 5, 2009 2:33 PM said: That being said, if people uninformed people like you like you are unable to get a direct fight form anywhere in the world to Chicago, you have bigger problems. If you read what I wrote, I said TSA has plays no role with people entering our country. True statement. TSA screens people who have entered and are looking to fly domestically. LEARN ANYTHING?
and
TSOWilliamReed said:
http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/chicagos-loss-is-passport-control-to-blame/
Not really sure what that link has to do with TSA since CBP is in charge of incoming travelers from other contries, TSA is only in charge of outgoing travelers getting on board planes.
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Well, yes, anonymous, I did learn something. I learned that you and William need to get out more and that you really need to get some training. The world is a much bigger place than either of you imagine. THERE ARE NO direct flights to Chicago from, for example, Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa. None from Moscow. It's just way too far for a single flight. There are nearly 200 countries in the world. I'm sure there are some others that don't have direct flights to Chicago. Passengers from those places arrive at somewhere like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Atlanta or Newark, then GO THROUGH TSA SCREENING for a connecting flight to Chicago. And when they leave, they go through TSA screening in Chicago and again at whatever other city they have to transit.
I'm sure not a lot of people fly into Ketchikan on their way to somewhere else, but it doesn't mean that foreign visitors don't go through other airports on their way to destinations in the US. As I said, you guys need to get out more.
And even if passengers only had to go through TSA screening once when leaving Chicago, that would be enough exposure to TSA to give a lot of people a bad impression.
I know lots of people overseas who have decided NEVER to visit the US again while TSA is doing airport "security." So yes, I can believe that bad experiences with TSA were part of the decision by the Olympic committee not to choose Chicago for 2016.
October 9, 2009 8:27 AM
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I know that Issac but the article was about foreigners having trouble entering the country not traversing the country once they are allowed inside.
RB said...
Question for William Reed.
I've never been to Ketchican although my dad worked on a small boat there shortly after WWII. He speaks highly of his time in Alaska and how great the people treated him.
I'm curious though about how many people transit the TSA checkpoints at your airport on an average day.
Looking at the airport from Google Earth shows a fairly small one runway airport. On average how many flights that have to clear TSA operate per day? I'm not looking for an exact number just a rough guesstimate.
October 9, 2009 3:43 PM
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At Ketchikan we have 4 flights per shift in the summer (all AK airlines) and 3 flights per shift in the winter. We have two shifts total and about 9-10 officers a shift. We have between 90-120 passengers a flight in the summer and in the winter we have about 40-80 passengers a flight. Ketchikan income is about 90% tourism so we get a huge variety of passengers not only from every part of the US but also from around the world. Heavy traffic from japan, russia, new zeland, australia, canada, and supprisingly mexico. Also a very large amount of traffic to the philipines.
For RB:
Operational Statistics for Ketchikan:
Aircraft Operations: 59/Day
Air Carrier: 24.6%
Air Taxi: 45.5%
General Aviation Local: 1.9%
General Aviation Itinerant: 2.7%
Military: 0.7%
14 flights a day that "require" the presence of TSA?
Ketchikan International Airport
Address: Ketchikan County, AK
TSOWilliamReed
At Ketchikan we have 4 flights per shift in the summer (all AK airlines) and 3 flights per shift in the winter. We have two shifts total and about 9-10 officers a shift. We have between 90-120 passengers a flight in the summer and in the winter we have about 40-80 passengers a flight. Ketchikan income is about 90% tourism so we get a huge variety of passengers not only from every part of the US but also from around the world. Heavy traffic from japan, russia, new zeland, australia, canada, and supprisingly mexico. Also a very large amount of traffic to the philipines.
October 9, 2009 5:15 PM
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Also wanted to add, at our airport we see about 4 times as much baggage as we do passengers. The reason for this is our tourism is mainly due to resort fishing. About 80% of the passengers on each south bound flight are fisherman and each one checks on average 2-3 50lb boxes of fish and a normal checked bag. Ketchikan is actually featured in one of the evolution training videos for TSA.
How does the no fly list protect the general flying public against those "will-be terrorists" who (to date) have done nothing worthy of being placed on the list? The no-fly list by its own design becomes more and more useless each passing year. Silliness!!
Not going to tell me how I can report someone for checkpoint harassment if I suspect ill intent?
Wow, very interesting that 80% of passengers are fisherman. Makes it hard for security when you have a 4 to 1 bag to passenger ratio.
Right now I think the TSA has its hands full (no pun intended) with passenger pat downs and screening people who just don't want the invasion of their bodies.
I believe this increases the voluntary no fly list by quite a bit.
The straw man argument about intrusive security searches is that "we have to maintain a balance between safety and security".
The Constitution constrains the government by absolutely limiting their latitude to establish "balance": the government cannot trade my Constitutional rights against some other factor in order to achieve "balance". That is an unbalanced approach applied by a government out of control.
Uh... are you going to add me to the "Selectee" list now? I'll be flying is a couple of weeks, and you can "teach me a lesson"...
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