This is a FREE country!!!! How is forcing anyone to do anything freedom????

OMG there was workplace rules that made union membership a condition of employment for GOVERNMENT workers?? that is the most backwards insane destructive anti-American thing i have ever heard. Special club you must join and pay fees to in order to work for the government? What is that union there for? Who is that Union protecting the government workers from? The public??? .. Does anyone else see a major problem with such a work place rule? Government is the PUBLIC SECTOR unions have no business controlling the public sector at all. Unions even police and fire Unions should be banned in all levels of government everywhere in this nation. The existence of them in fact is what limits the peoples control over them. It is a gross violation for them to exist. Good for you Michigan now get rid of those police unions and give the control back to the citizens of the state!

Mackinac Center analysis indicates a right-to-work bill would do the following:

• Right-to-work means that unions can't require an employee be fired for declining to pay union dues or agency fees, while maintaining a union's ability to collectively bargain.
• Right-to-work offers in-state opportunities for young workers. Between 2000 and 2011, right-to-work states have seen an increase of 11.3 percent in the number of residents between the ages of 25-34, according to the Bureau of the Census. Non-right-to-work states, over that same period of time, have seen an increase of only 0.6 percent.
• Right-to-work means increasing wages. Private-sector, inflation-adjusted employee compensation in right-to-work states has grown by 12.0 percent between 2001-2011, according to data taken from the Bureau of Economic Analysis and Bureau of Labor Statistics. That compares with just 3.0 percent over the same period in forced-unionization states.
• Right-to-work means low unemployment. Between 1999 and 2009, non-farm private-sector employment grew 3.7 percent in right-to-work states, but decreased 2.8 percent in non-right-to-work states. Further, the vast majority of jobs created during the Obama administration have been in states with a right-to-work law. According to the National Institute for Labor Relations Research, right-to-work states (excluding Indiana, which passed a right-to-work law in early 2012) “were responsible for 72 percent of all net household job growth across the U.S. from June 2009 through September 2012.”
• Right-to-work makes states more attractive for business. States with right-to-work laws dominate the “Top States for Business,” as determined by CNBC. For 2012, nine out of the top 10 best states for business are right-to-work states. By contrast, Michigan is currently 33.

http://www.mackinac.org/16278

JanJoyce, your ignorance perhaps...

Unions protected the workers industrial age to what OSHA and many regulation agencies do now. This is the problem I have with an established union at a work site:

- After 30 days you need to join and pay the dues

- Your money at the union automatically goes towards democratic elections regardless of your political affiliation

- You are bullied to believe in what the union preaches. We've all seen this before in high school, they are called clicks...and yes they are bullies

- They use words like corporate greed and rich fat cats to justify your thousands of dollars a year membership, then blame those fat cats when you cant pay for gas, food, etc. They the company goes under (Hostess) because the world is not a union run system and can not compete on a global scale

Only thing that Unions have done:

-increased the pay of every worker today. non-union workers have benefited from union lobbying. unfortunately from the above point, we can no longer compete in this global economy so its starting to nullify the point.

- if you force the 'fat cats' to stop receiving big pay checks, they will leave to profitable companies that do pay and, said point above, the company will fail regardless and you back to square one

Eric-913730,

You obviously have no idea what fascism is do you? If you want to see an example, check out Obamacare. Forcing you to support a private company is fascism.

This is a great victory for workers and a setback for the thieving libs to force people to join their union then take money from them to give to other libs to get nice kick backs. Public unions are unconstitutional at best, and down right damaging to our very foundation at worst. Thank God these leaders are standing up to these working thugs. You will probably see a lot less demoncrats being elected in those areas now that they cant steal worker's money while doing nothing for them. People opposing this bill are just pathetic thieves and nothing more.

Libs are for choice, unless they dont like the choice, they you are racist, sexist, or in bed with the 1%. And they call conservatives fear mongers. ahahahahahaha, pathetic.

Was going to comment...but it seems all the smart folks out there have already lambasted the unions.

So...my 2 cents? Unions have outlived their usefulness. Their job is done. they only cause employers to pay out more money to hire an individual and EVERYONE knows you can't fire a useless union person.

I see unions as a good thing if they are managed well. I do not think it should be a requirement for employment. I choose to belong to my union because I want fairness in my workplace. The right to work law in the state of Iowa has not had a negative effect for my union or hampered it's ability to do it's job.

Well, well, libbies, while you were gloating with loud mouths over Obama's win at the federal level, you failed to see how many states elected GOP governors and legislators. Too bad, because a hell of a lot can be done by states to counteract the awful, damaging policies and practices of the would-be Emperor in the white house.

Many republicans would like to pass their fortunes down to junior tax-free. Junior would like that too. He would be in control of a lot of money and power and never have to work a day in his/her life-

Yeah, because all the rich democrats are very happy not to pass it down to junior. What a dip@!$%# statement you just made and keep your hands out of my wallet and my kids' wallet...get a job.

For Dennis, read this link.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A

Tell me again about the where the Union money comes from that's used to support the Democratic party? (chirping crickets.....)

P.S. Good for Michigan, about time they did something good for their own state! Now if only Ohio would do the same......

These right to work laws should not only allow people to decide whether or not to join a union, they should also protect a worker from getting fired without cause. It's just not right to fire an employee without reason, or without discussing a problem with an employee and allowing him/her to correct a problem, and not have to fire him.

These union thugs must be stopped. You should not have to join a union if you do not want to.

Imagine this: Michigan is like a ship that is sinking with a repairable hole in it (union demands) and unions don't want to do anything about it. Just let it sink. Look at the city of Detroit. The unions have destroyed the city because most of the industries there left for other states or countries.

If unions are so bad for so many people, they could vote to de-certify, abolishing the union in the process by a simple majority vote. This, however is not the case. Unions still exist in many industries, and they exist for a reason, to place checks on corporate abuses toward workers and to provide a strong bargaining position to their members. This is not to say all unions are good, as some exist who do not fulfill this obligation.

Historically, when union membership was at its peak of roughly 30% of the workforce in the 1950s-1960s, the nation was doing very well economically. People of my father's generation were able to be raised on one income (usually from the father), and businesses that didn't have unions compensated their employees better in an effort to eliminate any appeal that unions would have to their employees. All this "Right to work" Bull@!$%# does is turn the clock back to 1912, minus the polio.

It boggles my mind that people would have such trust in a company's ability to self regulate and treat their employees fairly, but not have trust in democracy in the workplace. The fact that corporate executive compensation has increased exponentially since 1978, while hourly worker wages have stagnated, and even regressed is proof that companies, when left unchecked and unregulated are a menace to the middle class, and to better wages for workers.

The fact the people can now freeload on the backs of unions and reap the benefits unions protect and fight for without putting their share of skin into the game (so to speak) is appalling. Snyder lost my support with this act, and I'll be voting against him in 2014.

There is a silver lining. Once the people of Michigan discover the havoc on wages and benefits caused by this bill, the Republican reign of terror will end for decades. I fully expect the same on a national level after the battles of the fiscal cliff and raising the coming debt limit have been concluded.

The Republicans have forgotten their last 20 year banishment from the White house (1933 to 1953) while Congressional majority was withheld until 1996. These are different times with the very same Republican worn out tactics. Adios and good riddance.

Scruffy

Yea right... vote to de-certify. Technically you are right but the union/workers bully any type dissidence and shut it down immediately. You heard the woman at the rally "i dont want to work next to someone who hasnt paid their dues!"

if you dont join them you will be austricized....

Republicans are taking away workers choices here, by not allowing the law to be overturned by referendum.

This is all purely political, and fascism at its best.

Michigan had a mandatory union referendum on the ballot November 6th and it was defeated.

Commensense101: No one has voted for you. YOU LOSE!

We see what the Republican plan for America is now. 2014 will be the end of the Republican Party in Michigan and many other places in the country. No more "I vote for the candidate who I think is the best guy",its straight party line from now on. When you vote for any Republican you have to accept their whole anti-worker,anti-middle class,anti-women's rights,leadership. Their people are tied to them or they wouldn't be Republicans in the first place. Remember that people. Don't vote for ANY Republican,even for dog-catcher.

Starting next year the Democrats and the middle working class need to oppose any legislation supported by the Republicans in Michigan,no more bi-partisan cooperation. Cooperation with the Snyder gang,just helps him. He's a "dead man walking" as Governor. So show him from the start he's done in Michigan politics. Target any Republican that voted for that bill and the anti-women's bills they are pushing. We need to show the Republicans in 2014 what happens to a party that attacks the workers and women in our country. Especially in Blue States we should clean out the whole vile crowd.

The coming elections in 2014,are more important even than 2012 was. The robber barons lost their attempt to buy the Presidency and now their trying to buy the Statehouses instead. We have to shut them down. If it takes outspending them,strikes,mass demonstrations,or all the above. We can't let them destroy the future of the middle working class and women's rights in America so they can get even richer and further their evil ideology.

@Keeninsight-if you get fired it's because someone is not happy with your work. Why should your job be protected when you are not doing it properly. The problem with the union is that you can go to a job and not do your job andnot get fired while others have to work their butts off. The post office has this problem of incompetent workers that do nothing but sit around all night while others do their work for them and the union protects them from getting fired. Why should you be protected when you are not doing the job you are being paid to do? Good for Michigan-what gives anyone the right to decide for another if you should be union or not. Pay your dues if you want to be, but don't force it on those who don't want it-this is America, it's not Unionerica. Of course, Obama is going to stir the crap about it because he made big promises. He wanted the union to take over-they own him, but it won't happen in America. Actually statistics have shown that nonunion people are paid better wages. We the people have had enough.

You never negotiate with a republican period. Democrats need to remember exactly how the republicans treat them and the independents when they have majority powers. There is nothing these people can do that cannot be undone even if they do majority vote in their own versions of constitutional laws and call them non-repeal-able. It all begins with the 2014 vote. 2012 sealed the 3-4 supreme justices that will be replaced during the next four years for the democratic party and unseated a majority of the remaining republicans that ran election campaigns. 2014 will take out the rest of the tea party members so much of what they pull in their respective states are merely a learning tool for the 2014 elections.

Apparently, the protesters we see in the news must be a very tiny minority of the citizens of Michigan.

Otherwise, this makes no sense: the citizens of Michigan voted into office all these corporately owned republicans, so now they're surprised that they're behaving like corporately owned republicans?

does this mean that those 15 Chrysler employees caught drinking and smoking on the clock can get fired for good now? rather than the company being forced to keep them because they are union?

You should do your OWN research about donations. Hollywood elite, and unions make up democrats base (you should also check out the corps and hedgefund mgrs that not only donated but threw hefty fundraising dinners for YOUR Mr. O). Democrats are owned by a wide array of entities and people. So get off the left wing BS and do something constructive for the country -- like contributing to society. Givers VS takers. What are you people going to do when there are a lot fewer givers and a lot more takers (which is what the dems are doing, growing their base by making people dependent on government programs so they'll vote like the lap dogs you are).

"You obviously have no idea what fascism is do you? If you want to see an example, check out Obamacare. Forcing you to support a private company is fascism."

Umm, well... No, actually. I know you specialize in being brainless, but you really oughta consider knowing what you're talking about before you start talking. Because it's kind of hilarious watching someone attack someone else for not knowing what fascism is and then proceeding to provide an example of something that is decidedly not fascist.

I also strongly suspect that you don't know what "communist" or "socialist" actually mean either, but rather you use those terms to refer to anything that doesn't fit your radical, horribly distorted Right-wing worldview.

Freedom wins for what seems like the first time in years. Finally, employers in Michigan can decide who they want to hire or fire without being forced to hire and keep whomever they're told they must and for how much money, even when that person is completely unqualified, disruptive, or even downright hostile to staff or clientele. Naturally Unions don't like this because it also means their members can leave the union and find work for themselves without having to be dependant on fat cat union bosses and sleazy recruiters who tell them when and how they must vote if they want to keep working in their state. No longer will the Michigan worker be required to pay increasing fees to keep their shoddy health benefits and licenses which they pay for out of their own money to begin with.

Yes sir, this has been a good day for Michigan and for America. People may still have difficulty finding work, but they can rest assured that the work they do get is dependant upon them and them alone, their own performance being rewarded or punished appropriately without their wages being garnished and gouged. Likewise, businesses can hire people for appropriate wages without being forced to shell out twice as much as they put in simply for non-worker profit (Union bosses, primarily). Anytime a Union worker makes $15 an hour, the company is paying out $45 an hour for that worker in total - that may not seem like much but when you consider that worker could be getting paid $20 and the business pays $25 (government employment taxes still apply, but we'll deal with that when we can), it's a situation where everyone ultimately wins.

God. Maybe now Detroit will get some economy back and those hundreds of thousands of homeless starving people can get community aid to get them back on their feet and in charge of their own lives again at long last.

rightwing said:

if you were worth a sh!t as a worker you wouldn't be worried. OSHA has standards for workplace safety and UCLA protects civil rights. Unions do nothing except take your money and provide nothing back.

Unions not only stand for workplace safety and civil rights, but they also represent workers in bargaining for a decent working wage and benefits. Pray tell us rightwing, what law is out there that protects workers rights to fair wages and benefits? What this law will do is weaken the union pool so that they will have less power to stand up for worker rights - the goal of Republican lawmakers. They want complete control of the Middle Class. Everyone has a right to fair wages and benefits. The Republicans are whittling away at the rights of every Middle Class worker in this country with the laws they pass. If we continue down this road, most people won't be able to get anything but slave wages with no benefits, no thanks to the Republicans.

Since when is freedom a bad thing? Have you ever wondered what made the people in the middle east hate Americans so bad? It is because they have been taught that way of thinking from a young age. We non-union workers wonder the same thing about many of these die hard union people. How could they possibly think the unions are as important as they believe them to be?How could they be so commit ed to the unions? How can they see freedom to choose as such a threat? The only answer is like the misguided people that hate America these people have been convinced they can not survive on their own without the unions help. It is sad that some people are that unable to look out for themselves.

The Union Mobsters are howling like wounded hyenas.... to hell with the unions.... nothing but money grabbing mafia style organization who promote piss poor production and use strong arm tactics to intimidate workers and employers. I have belonged to two unions in my working life and neither has done anything i can point to with pride...just the opposite...

Katherine M. Comment collapsed by the community

Many republicans would like to pass their fortunes down to junior tax-free. Junior would like that too. He would be in control of a lot of money and power and never have to work a day in his/her life- think the old European aristocracy model. The Death Tax sounds bad but it is a "new" name for inheritance taxes

Well there is one of the stupider things I've read in some weeks. Surely you can't honestly believe that the inheritance tax only affect the Paris Hilton types? Give me a break, when you've got that much money a pesky little inheritance tax is an easy thing to avoid. The people who end up paying the inheritance tax are the people who don't have money for armies of lawyers. Some of these people are small business owners whose children end up being forced to close the business and sell of the assets because it is the only way for them to raise enough money to pay the tax.

And aside from that, the idea that people should not be allowed to keep what they earn is friggin stupid. Why on Earth are liberals so hell bent on removing any possible incentive for people to become successful? There are states now where you can live better on 29k per year than you can on 55k when you lose access to benefits and pay higher tax rates. Why bother working hard to advance when your hard work will only earn you a step back?

Finally Michigan You made the Right Choice.... There is still Hope for Your State. I thought it was going down, but now there is New Light at the end of the Tunnel. Congratulations

Uncle Bob 512

We see what the Republican plan for America is now. 2014 will be the end of the Republican Party in Michigan and many other places in the country.

What a joke.

In the last Presidential Election Republicans won more seats in the State level 25 states in fully control , how ever they lost the Presidential race, that is the problem , you don't see the whole spectrum. Republicans will be alive for many years to come as well Democrats. However the right to work bill has the support also of Independents and Democrats voters.

Uncle Bob 512 your post is too funny.

I live in a right to work state. We have no issues, and our voting seems to be uneffected by coworker/management bullying...that is what freedom means.

We see what the Republican plan for America is now. 2014 will be the end of the Republican Party in Michigan and many other places in the country. No more "I vote for the candidate who I think is the best guy",its straight party line from now on. When you vote for any Republican you have to accept their whole anti-worker,anti-middle class,anti-women's rights,leadership. Their people are tied to them or they wouldn't be Republicans in the first place. Remember that people. Don't vote for ANY Republican,even for dog-catcher.

i am repub, but I voted from some dems, reps, and indy. My job did not cast my vote for me, I did it for myself and none of my wages or dues went to electing a man i do not agree with...that too is what freedom is.

You clearly state that your party is all you care about. Its party first, family and friends, and citizens of this nation are last. Something tells me you disowned a family member based on their party or that you would if given the chance. that too bad.

Dottie,

Libs dont do research, they come to MSN to get their slanted info. They still think Unions are relevant in this day because unions are made up of democrats that are too lazy to compete for a position with the threat of actually having to work hard to keep it.

wall-mart worker...government food stamp eater...free ride this and that...hell yea give the hard earned money to the rich...so they can pay the hordaseians...anti-union is good so we can work in factories 12 hr.days to compete with china...thank you BILL CLINTON for NAFTA...

those unions are just freaking out about not having the money they did this year to elect a UNITED States President. They are mad the money is going home with the people and not to their candidate. This is all about the Unions money that they wont have in the future to buy an election. This state, just freed part of America from hostage politics. Good day, I said good day.

No more bought elections through unions. whooo hoooo yipppie skippie. I see nonpartisan on its way....maybe just maybe, our next President, d or r, will be honest, and fair. Instead of sleeping with union every spit second of his or her term.. SWEETNESS!!! I don't care what party takes the presidential seat, as long as its not bought with citizens wages who dont want him..now its a choice!! did I say SWEET!! SWEET

I have to wonder how many of those out there protesting voted Republican.

This is nothing more than the systematic destruction of the working class by the GOP in order to kiss the collective a$$e$ of their contributors.

Can anyone say: Andrew Carnegie? How would that have worked out for the employees in the mills without the protection of the union?

Here is what you will get when the protection offered by unions is eliminated:

• Every time management has a nephew graduating from school they can fire a loyal worker, give the nephew the job then bump him up the ladder over the people who have been dedicated workers for years.
• Employers can get rid of those workers who have been dedicated workers for many years so they can hire people in at minimum wage.
• There will be no negotiations regarding wages or benefits; it will be 'Our Way Or The Highway".
• Workers can expect to work for the same wage they were hired in at ad infinitum.
• Your retirement accounts, if any are offered at all, will not be vested. After you have worked for 29 & 1/2 years preparing for retirement at 30 years they will fire you, your retirement will disappear and you can start over at square one. (Can you say Bain Capital?)
• The corporate greed monsters will continue to pick away at OSHA, DEP, EPA and Labor & Industry health and safety regulations, leaving workers' at the mercy of the corporations.
• This is the first step in a corporate take-over of our government. They want to eliminate minimum wage laws, workers compensation insurance regulations and overtime requirements. Our workers will be in no better shape than those in third world countries.

This is the GOP proving who it is that they represent. Big money, big business ... and to hell with the working class!

Did you all see this headline:

Surprise: New insurance fee in health overhaul law

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/12/11/new-health-insurance-fee/1760479/

UncleSlob, I'm so sick of your liberal diatribe. It is the democrats that are being exposed, first on January 1st when the first of the Obamacare taxes are implemented, and again in 2014. Democrats say that they are collecting money to protect the poor, and then they spend the money on one of their pork projects. We've seen the Fannie and Freddie debacle (give loans to people even if they can't afford it), the attempt to keep people as slaves by keeping them on welfare, instead of creating jobs for them, and the building of the financial base for contributions, the unions. The unions had their place in the early 1900s, but now, they are nothing, but money grabbers for the democrat party. They cripple business by making it impossible to get rid of the slackers. And smart women are on to your lie about their rights being in jeopardy. It's the unborn child's rights that are being taken away by democrats by allowing murder. Women can use contraceptives to control pregnancies (but I shouldn't have to fund it, that's not their right).

Once again the republican party has defended the rich on the backs of "we the people". One small step for the republican party, one giant leap for the hidden rich.

And to the republicans: when your children are paid even less then they are now, I hope you live an extremely long long life so you can watch it all. Enjoy their pain.

Michigan in January 2013 will lose a bunch of Republican seat they lost in election to democrats. They rammed this legislature in and it is not a good thing.

Lower wages and less benefits, but hey red states already take more federal money then they produce..

Hey Dennis. Speak to your "Democratic Machine" before you say more about

passing constitutional muster. Or will looking in the mirror scare you to death?

SMlFry2 said: something stupid and not worth repeating but I will humor your idiotic response with a counter response.

"Unions not only stand for workplace safety and civil rights, but they also represent workers in bargaining for a decent working wage and benefits. Pray tell us rightwing, what law is out there that protects workers rights to fair wages and benefits? "

Why would you need a law unless you were worried about poor performance? Since you are not a slave, you are not obliged to stay working for a company who offers unfair compensation. If you don't like it, go work for the competition or step up your performance. You are entitled to nothing and your Boss is paying you for a service and DOES expect something back.

"What this law will do is weaken the union pool so that they will have less power to stand up for worker rights - the goal of Republican lawmakers. They want complete control of the Middle Class. Everyone has a right to fair wages and benefits."

Wow conspiracy theory much? Based on the mindless liberal dribble on these vines, I would have concluded that conspiracy theories were strictly reserved for GOP radicals. Right to fair wages and benefits, I couldn't agree more! You have the right to show up to work on time, abide by company policies and do a good job - and now if you don't, you have the right to be fired! You had the right to go to school and take the risk of student loans and putting yourself on the line too and if you failed because of stupid decisions, that's your fault. I went to school, do my job, have a good relationship with my boss and I get all the things you mentioned too, WITHOUT A UNION!

"The Republicans are whittling away at the rights of every Middle Class worker in this country with the laws they pass."

Like the right to earn what you deserve and keep what you earn? Like the right to take risks and the right to deal with the consequences of failure or success? Like the right to spend highschool smoking pot, early 20's F***G anything that moves and demanding equality in your mid 30's because you finally figured out you're a loser? OR maybe you mean the right to force thousands of businesses to lay off workers when a communisty piece of sh!t implements thousands of dollars in fees or taxes, making businesses unable to stay competitive and keep producing profits.

"If we continue down this road, most people won't be able to get anything but slave wages with no benefits, no thanks to the Republicans."

You couldn't be more correct. IF we keep implementingn socialist policies and don't adress our spending and entitlement problems and get serious with illegal immigration we will most CERTAINLY HAVE SLAVE WAGE ISSUES. Why do you think so many people who were once in construction are now unemployed!? CAn you say... Juan, Julio and Jose?

And most importantly, "NO THANKS TO THE REPUBLICANS", your damn right NO THANKS TO THEM, they didn't do anything to cause this and they were villified for trying to stop it. Thanks for proving my point you liberal jacka$$.

Schools in at least three districts were closed because so many teachers and other staff were at the rally.

Looks like there's some teachers that need to be reprimanded or fired for playing hookie! It's nice that they care so much about their students that they can't be bothered to show up and teach. You know, provide them with a quality education rather than going out to join a mob to fight for their right to use extortion to get what they want.

If any one of these paid shills of the anti union actually had a brain you would stop posting the anti union crap. Let me tell my story about how fair big business treats its employees. I work for a company recently for 4 years 11 months and 3 weeks. I was the go to guy when anyone had a question about things at the store. Yet 3 weeks before I turned 50 I got 3 write ups for judgmental things like not sweeping the floor properly. I had never gotten a write up in almost 5 years yet I got 3 in 2 weeks. I was fired just 1 week before I was eligible for almost $1500 in sick leave and vacation pay. I later found out that the real reason I was fired was since I had been diagnosed with arthritis and would be turning 50 the companies insurance would be going up so they fired me. Since I was only 49 at the time I was fired age discrimination laws didn't apply to me and MO is a hire at will state so I was without any legal recourse. That is what happens when you aren't a member of a union.

Also for all the IDIOTS that think that 60% of the people in this country don't want Obama care I suggest you turn off Limpbomb and actually do some fact checking. The number commonly used in the election was 54% didn't want Obama care. Want to no how the lying Republicans came up with that number? They combined the minority that didn't want it with the people that thought it was good start but preferred a single payer system. Those people comprised 23% of the population. So in actuality 69% of this country is in favor of Obama care, a super majority. Dont let the FACTS get in your way of spreading lies. It never has stopped you Republicans before. A minority of only 31% don't want some sort of national health care. I find it a funny that that is almost the same amount that think Limpbom tells the truth.

Hey tired old man: can any of you liberal Dimocrats ever spew a sentence out without resorting to saying the mindless "paid shills" and Rush insults? No? Didn't think so. And just so you know, the majority of Americans ARE against the way Obamacare was rammed down their throats. But they'll REALLY get to feel it when they start losing hours and jobs after it kicks in because smaller companies can't afford it. That's what you people get!

Anyway, anyone know what's missing in this story? Where is the reference to the union thugs that assaulted two pro-right to work people, one of them being a WOMAN before they attacked their tent and tore it down? Nary a peep from the liberal media, huh? No surprise, that's the same people who lie that the Tea Party is full of violent racists.

But let's call it like it is here: unions are 80-year old mentality of a time that was long ago past before we had laws to protect worker's rights. Now, unions think they can control companies and mandate what companies do as if THEY are the elected board members and leadership. Well, as we can see with Eastern Airlines, Hostess, and many companies in between, unions and their "paid shills" are only good for two things: violence and destroying companies. And then they wonder why jobs continue to shift overseas or to right to work states where every single foreign auto company has built manufacturing plants since the early 1990s.

Go pound sand, union goons.

I'd be upset about this if unions didn't only and automatically hire the sons, grandsons, and nephews of other union members rather than the most qualified candidate for the job. The rest of us would also like a job where we can only work a portion of the shift we're getting paid for, get the day off with full pay whenever it rains, call in sick then get 1.5X pay for "picking up" the following shift, not use all of the 15 or so sick days we get per year in order to cash them in and retire a full year+ early while still receiving our latest salary and full health care for the rest of our lives (and work a lot of overtime the final year to make that everlasting paycheck much higher), get paid way more and have better benefits than non-union people in the same exact business/building that have far more difficult jobs, actually have a pension, receive full scheduled raises regardless of any performance standard whatsoever, not get fired for practically any reason, etc... Yep, EXTREMELY jealous of my union friends in various fields and wish I would have had an uncle or daddy that could have hooked me up like that.

Union members in Michigan were caught on camera punching reporters, taking down tents and even assaulting people in a counter protest.

Real mature!!

Fed up with fred

Sure the top 4 states are best for business but if you look at the other end the scale, 10 of the 6 states in the bottom 50 states are right to works states that blows your Ideal

Congratulations to Michigan for passing your Right To Work (For Less)Law in record time ,six hours, without debate and public scrutiny. That's republican democracy in action, Whether you're pro or anti union, this sucks and bodes poorly for the country.

All of the truthful comments have been collapsed. We now know that this forum consist of many union and Obama supporters.

Right to Work legislation is progress on individual civil rights and liberty.

With Right to Work legislation, workers still have the right to freely associate with whom they will and decide to join together in a Union, and collectively bargain... and they should.

But they do not have the right to force compulsory unionism or confiscate money to support the union for those workers who do not consent.

One fundamental basis of contract law is getting both sides together to consent and agree prior to transactions.

What the Unions essentially argue is that they can come in, provide you a service you neither ask for nor want, and then use the government as a bludgeon to force you to pay for that service regardless of your consent.

No one should wield that kind of authoritarian power over free citizens.

A Union that faces members who have the right to opt out if the Union is not adequately representing them must provide better services to their members to stay attractive and keep those members. It forces Union bosses to not be able to free ride on their members dues without giving them commensurate value in return. This is good for workers, if not the Democratic politicians that use forced unionism to confiscate money from people who might not otherwise support them channeled through the union and into their campaign coffers.

Just don't let the pro-union propagandists fool you. Right to Work law is about liberty, pure and simple. You ought to have the right to join and union and collectively bargain as a matter of free association. But as an equal part of that right to free association, you ought to have the right to tell them no, you don't want to join them too, and not be forced to support them financially as a precondition of work.

That's a basic fundamental human right, look it up, article 20 in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml#atop

Article 20.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Hard to argue with that.

So this is a historic day for civil liberty and workers rights. Congrats to the citizens of MI, your government no longer will force you to join unions against your will and consent as a precondition of work.

It's a good day.

40 empty chairs 40 empty yrs of Rep rule

Sure the top 4 states are best for business but if you look at the other end the scale, 10 of the 6 states in the bottom 50 states are right to works states that blows your Ideal

9 of the top ten states in terms of economic growth are "right to work" states, NONE of the bottem 10 are. In addition the average unemployment rate in RtW States is 6.9% and in other states it's 8.7%. You have to do some pretty hard twisting and spinning to "blow the ideal".

YES MICHIGAN!!!!! Way to go, there is hope for your state!! Union thugs are up to their usual tricks, too bad, so sad union a$$ wipes. Unionistas, go F yourselves.

A tent set up by supporters of the measures also collapsed amid what authorities described as "pushing and shoving" among protesters. No one was hurt, police said.

That's not what I saw on TV. I saw a union thug start swinging at a supporter of the legislation like he was in a backwater tough guy competition. I find it frightening at how violent the Left has become. I believe a lot of it has to do with the juvenile mentality. Can't win a verbal argument? Resort to physical violence.

Valerie Constance, a developmental reading instructor for the Wayne County Community College District and a member of the American Federation of Teachers, sat on the Capitol steps with a sign shaped like a tombstone. It read: "Here lies democracy."

LOL! This is hilarious. How does a moron like this, who teaches reading no less, keep her job? Oh yea, she's in a union. She believes in her heart of hearts that the union mob is democracy and the Michigan legislative process is not. How pathetic.

Individual freedom scares the unions to death. They don't like the idea of a worker choosing to take a pay cut in a poor economy to ensure the family is fed and the job will continue into the future. I wonder what the employees from Hostess are doing these days? Probably on food stamps and welfare; I guarantee you that they aren't getting any money from the union that cost them a living. My experience with unions has shown me that the rules don't apply evenly, the incompetent are protected, and corruption is the rule (not the exception). In a union I was forced to work long overtime for crap wages while certain people did nothing and couldn't be fired. Time for them to become extinct.

JoeyJoeJoJunior Unions aren't interested in expanding workers rights!

BS - all the unions want is their almighty $$$$$$$$$$ - even if there is a strike the union bosses get their $$$ !!! Down with the Unions!!!!! Right to work states are the ONLY way to go - it works both for the workers and the bosses!!!!!

Aren't democrats supposed to be pro-choice?

0123456789

Even though studies have shown our economy was strongest when unions were strong?

Unions have declined along with the middle class when Unions over stepped their bounds and drove the jobs overseas. No need to be in a Union if there are no jobs.

I can almost guarantee those that are screaming "bad unions" and RTW is the way to go, weren't around when unions fought to make the 40 hour work week the standard. Before that...you worked as many hours as the boss SAID you worked. And at the wages they gave you.

I am not saying all unions are perfect- far from it- but they are the ones that actually gave us the middle class that the US was built on. It is eroding (the middle class) and it is NO coincidence that it is also because unions are being gutted like this state is doing.

Trust me folks...when times get tough and the employers think they need to save a few bucks, they will take it from your wages before anything else. And you will have been ok with that by being for this RTW law. Remember that.

It will be fun to watch the union numbers drop like a rock in Michigan once the workers get control of their money back. In Wisconsin public union membership dropped by more than 50% when the State had to stop automatically taking union dues out of state worker's paychecks and the employees had to sign up to have it taken out. Hilarious!

It's a shame that employees in Michigan might now have to compete for jobs, salaries, raises & benefits on the basis of their merits rather than their seniority or on the negotiating skills of their union bosses.

How can anyone who takes pride in their work, who values their own skills and experience, be upset about free market competition? If I'm twice as productive as the guy next to me doing essentially the same job, you better believe I expect better compensation than him. If my employer is a cheapskate and doesn't reward those employees that are the ones generating most of the profits, I'm more than happy to go work for his competition if I can get a better deal there.

It's a free country, or at least it's supposed to be.

Government is not some corporation. Unions in government are collective bargaining for tax payers money yet they do not get elected by the tax payers. Unconstitutional

Fatomdog,

Ummm NO, Kathryn, 'right to work' ONLY works to the advantage of the EMPLOYER, the EMPLOYEE has NO recourse/protection from being fired for NO reason.

Wrong. I'm a manager in a right to work state. It takes a hell of a lot of documentation to fire someone. If it's not documented the former employee can sue and usually win.

I taught Chemistry and Physics for 8 years at the High School level. I finally resigned because of the union that I was FORCED to join preferred teacher's rights more than the rights of students, and fighting against them was a lost cause. I would still be teaching if this State was a Right-to-Work state, but it is not. As it is, I own a computer software business and am doing well, but had to give up my love of Education. I applaud the State of Michigan.....but denounce those teachers who called in to their schools to support the selfish agenda of their Union and of themselves. Your students who had no school to go to today are supposed to be more important than your self-centered greed....but clearly they are not.

Without Unions, people will actually have to work to a higher standard because they would have to stand on their own MERITS, rather than rely on the BULLYING from their God Father Unions!

Union dues are nothing more than EXTORTION..... can't imagine why people would object.... just check out the states with the BEST economies today..... conservative & NON-union...... guess that's why Barry is so pro-union..... more votes for whatever the union bosses decide in the next election.....

Get a clue people.... make you OWN decisions, go into business for YOURSELF, build for YOUR FUTURE....

I work for a union hotel as a server in fine dining, and it's a mixed bag, but mostly good. Bad because some lazy employees have been there for years, and some have never know any other job and feel they don't have to perform. Good because we have rights, some paid vacation time, and a decent hourly wage plus tips.

In a non-union job, I would be making $2.77 an hour. This in Washington, DC ! At 2,77 an hour, let me tell you, you'd better make the tips you need to afford to live here, one of the most expensive cities in the nation. The minimum wage in most states is way too low, and politicians don't seem to care about that. How is a junk food worker making 7 dollars an hour supposed to survive ? Mc donalds and all these corporations have the means, but not the will, to pay a living wage. But for many people, that's the only job they can find..

I think unions overall should be more flexible in working with management to make sure they don't do things that are detrimental to the business.

"Who's fooling whom here? If you limit worker's abilities to belong to a union, your employer has the advantage. How much more advantage do workers in the US plan to allow employers to take?"

Who is limiting the workers from forming a union? All this bill says is YOU CAN'T FORCE SOMEONE INTO A UNION.

Wisconsin Public Sector Union Membership drops like a hot rock once they no longer have dues automatically taken out of their paychecks....That's what the Union Bosses fear the most....No More GravyTrain for them....

"Wisconsin membership in the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees-the state's second-largest public-sector union after the National Education Association, which represents teachers-fell to 28,745 in February from 62,818 in March 2011, according to a person who has viewed Afscme's figures. A spokesman for Afscme declined to comment.

Much of that decline came from Afscme Council 24, which represents Wisconsin state workers, whose membership plunged by two-thirds to 7,100 from 22,300 last year."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/05/dramatic_drop_in_union_membership_among_wi_public_employees.html

They may have shown up at the protests like Good Unionista's but afterwards decided they liked keeping their money....

Actually studies have shown that Unions actually slow an economic recovery during a recession, which we currently are in. Quality is not improved by unions rather the opposite in fact. The unions had their purpose, but they have outlived their usefulness. There are laws that do the same thing that unions did at their peak. Now the child labor laws, I wish they would bring down to about 11 or 12. Heck I was doing construction since I was 11 and I was born in the late 80's. My generation has been crippled by some of these laws. We simply don't know how to work. How is that beneficial to society?

Detroit teachers...they are union are some of the worst in the country...7% of 8th grade grads are at or below skill level. Now that is really sad performance by anyone's measure it is pathetic.

Take look at Paccar, Peterbilt trucks in Denton, Tx. They are not union if fact they ran the union reps out trying to get them to vote union and they make union wage or above with great benefits, Tn plant was union they struck for 2 years...2 years...the plant closed for good moved production to Denton, those unions folks are out of work thanks to the union leadership's greed so greed goes on both sides.

I consider myself a moderate when it comes to fiscal policy and I think this is good for Michigan. The Unions in the past have served purpose, but with the government getting so big they regulate everything now so the union is unneccesary. I will say the pressure is now on the employers to invest in Michigan's economy and to bring jobs back otherwise it becomes a government who doesn't care about the people battling businesses that don't care about their people and the middle class loses either way.

That's great news! Now when I bring my company to a trade show in your state, I don't have to pay $500.00 for you to run 8 screws into my display and hang 2 lights.

Studies show that right to work legislation leads to 6-8% lower wages.

http://www.epi.org/publication/datazone_rtw_index/

One of the best teachers i had was in HS. He refused to join the union when it came to town. He was ostracized, his tires got slashed, etc, etc. He was never accepted as an equal in the teachers lounge.

He was one of the best teacher i ever had through a BS in Engineering. He had a choice back then and teachers should have a choice now. That is just one example of the good that will come from this bill. People in Michigan will have a CHOICE to join the union or not. They won't get strong armed into it unless they let themselves.

Way to go Michigan! One more step to recovery.

Job well done..

The Rev. D. Alexander Bullock, state coordinator for the Rev. Jesse Jackson's Rainbow PUSH Coalition, "This is an issue for the greater community."

Yes he is correct, It was called an election where the greater (not just the Union lackeys) community voted for the right to not join a union.

Steve, why don't you take a look at annual income averages, as well as % of food stamp recipients, and then just for the fun of it, check out the number without health insurance in the right to work states. Go ahead, we'll wait...

123456

so you say if we lower min. wage to chinas pay levels we would bring in more jobs? the union was so good a person turning screws thought they should be paid the same as a doctor. that is an overstatement but an example of how the unions think. if a company treats its employees right and pay them what a job is worth they can grow. if a person that takes advantage of a company knows they can't be fired they will cost the company money. if the company treats its employees bad they will not last long. and why would anyone compare the U.S.A. to china

123456

so you say if we lower min. wage to chinas pay levels we would bring in more jobs? the union was so good a person turning screws thought they should be paid the same as a doctor. that is an overstatement but an example of how the unions think. if a company treats its employees right and pay them what a job is worth they can grow. if a person that takes advantage of a company knows they can't be fired they will cost the company money. if the company treats its employees bad they will not last long. and why would anyone compare the U.S.A. to china

ewent said, "If labor isn't important to the Republicans in this country, get the hell out of the USA."

While you are telling those who disagree with you to leave the country, you might want to take your own advice and take yourself and your unions to Greece.

People in the workplace who are competent, trustworthy, and who don't drink or smoke MJ on their lunch breaks (e.g., Chrysler workers who's Union just got them back on the job after being fired for this) have no fear of being mistreated or taken advantage at the work place. Employers value good workers and want to keep them at all costs! The only people who, to use your words, ewent, "suck up" to Unions are those who would otherwise be out of a job because of their incompetence, poor attitudes, and inferior workmanship.

I know a paramedic that makes 10.25 and hour and has to belong to a union and is forced to pay the dues. yet the union does nothing to help them. He works a 72 hour shift with a 12 hour brake, has to Post in remote location in temperatures that range from 115 to 30 And is expected to preform at the highest level. The uniforms are without reflective strips making night work even more dangerous. The Union know all this and does nothing but take their money. I say F%%K unions that do this.

01234....

If our "populace" had been better educated we would have a different president come January. Which party survives on the votes of the poorly educated ??? Have you checked the demographics on November's election ???

Okie...It would be better if we lowered our CEOs salaries to the levels of China's CEOs...whoooeeee...I can hear the CEOs caterwalling, sobbing, whining and crying already.

Touch anything in a corporation but the sacred CEO salary. It's the only thing in this country you can guarantee always goes up. See anything wrong with that?

Eric-

That 6-8% you call lower wages is what the union dues add up to. So.......same take home pay.

Unions protected the workers industrial age to what OSHA and many regulation agencies do now. This is the problem I have with an established union at a work site:

- After 30 days you need to join and pay the dues

- Your money at the union automatically goes towards democratic elections regardless of your political affiliation

- You are bullied to believe in what the union preaches. We've all seen this before in high school, they are called clicks...and yes they are bullies

- They use words like corporate greed and rich fat cats to justify your thousands of dollars a year membership, then blame those fat cats when you cant pay for gas, food, etc. They the company goes under (Hostess) because the world is not a union run system and can not compete on a global scale

Only thing that Unions have done:

-increased the pay of every worker today. non-union workers have benefited from union lobbying. unfortunately from the above point, we can no longer compete in this global economy so its starting to nullify the point.

- if you force the 'fat cats' to stop receiving big pay checks, they will leave to profitable companies that do pay and, said point above, the company will fail regardless and you back to square one

Not for nothing but my state is dead broke....$450 million in the hole right now with $1 billion + deficits projected for the next two years after this one. Our state has the most poorly funded government employee pension program in the nation and yet twice per year, government hands out 'longevity payments' that have nothing do with anything except years on the job. $27 million was recently handed out and it happens twice per year. Newspaper reports state that some municipal school system's employees have taken a pay freeze for a year...but automatic "step increases" in pay of 1.5 to 2.5% are not considered "pay increases" so they're rarely mentioned in the articles.

And I'm supposed to be sobbing for the crybabies in front of the Michigan capital ???

There is no need for unions in this day and age. If you feel you are being mistreated at your job you can find a new job of or to court. This is what the union does anyway and there is no need for a middle man.

I'm still confused on why states like MI, WI, and OH are overwhelmingly against the unions (a good thing) yet still voted in our idiot-in-chief to a second term. I guess Romney was a weak candidate.

0123456789...

There was a whole lot more going on during the unions heyday that can't even be compared to in todays economy.

Regardless, blame the U.S. dept of labor for leveling the playing field for all workers. Unions are no longer relevent in the way you want them to be so stop living in the past.

Private sector unions have to compete with non-union shops. Yes exceptions still exist like for the training and expertise given in the masonry, pipefitters and possibly millwrights. The other trades are regulated to specific standards set by the government. As for public unions, their time will soon end amid a taxpayer revolt if they don't change to meet the new economy moving forward.

BTW - notice how the articles editors purposely gave such an inflaming headline to to having government provide for a balanced approach to every workers rights?

ewent,

I see you are back making absolutely no sense yet again.

Why should someone be forced to join an organization that gives money to ideals and organizations that they are against in order to work? This makes no sense. Unions do nothing for workers except protect the dumb and lazy, which probably explains why you are rallying for them.

Randoo

Have to agree with one point you brought up... there was a time when unions were absolutely essential to the health and financial well-being of workers. But that was long ago... now we have laws that codify safety and protect workers from arbitrary firing (despite what the hystericals are squealing). And the unions have just become an arm of the socialist party along with the media. And the marketplace determines what jobs are worth... no, there aren't too many $40/hr "tighten five bolts" jobs anymore.... but there are plenty of jobs that pay well with skills... machinists, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, painters, shipfitters, welders, heavy equipment operators, and the list goes on. One lesson is clear... the market is changing and we're competing globally... once upon a time there were companies that made buggy whips... and when the auto came along, they had to adapt. Today is no different.

JJ, looks like the right wing propoganda machine (e.g. the Fox misinformation network) has gotten you again - and others with similar comments to yours. Even a fool knows that if you can get union benefits without having to pay for them, unions will take in less revenue and have less political clout. Of course, this is exactly what Republicans and the Kock brothers really want (the so called "right to work" slogan is necessary for the brainwashing to work...just like "citizens united"). This is just a part of how the Republicans think they can cling to power despite having failed ideas that only benefit the plurocrats. This strategy, evil and anti-American as it may be, is actually pretty simple:

1. Choke funding and organizing of democratic operatives (e.g. "right to vote")

2. Increase funding and organizing of republican operatives (e.g. "citizens united")

3. Win state control, stack the courts with partisan judges who will push the right wing agenda (e.g Florida, Ohio, Texas, Arizona, Kentucky, etc..)

4. Suppress votes of democratic voting blocks (e.g. see above)

Problem is, 53% (and growing) of Americans have already caught on to the right wing sham...and are inpenetrable to Fox News brainwashing. Of course, that will not stop the right wingnuts from continuing to play to the angry, white, science-hating, gun-loving religious fundamentalist base. You know, the people from the real welfare states; the ones that take more than they give but accuse others of socialism; the ones that have "right to work" legislation but have the lowest pay, benefits and worker safety; the ones that value the unborn more than the born; the ones that don't believe in science, consumer protection, financial regulations etc..

Fortunately, the sham is over. You just don't know it yet.

Terrific news!

Americans have the Right to Work!!

Tony....are you saying that the states of LA, MS, AL, AR, TN, SC (the southern 'redneck' states) that voted for Romney contain more educated people per capita than those in the Northeast (famous for their education system) that voted for Obama? I'm afraid you need to re-check your demographics.

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money, and put their leaders in prison.

We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike.”

Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933

Mr. Burns...I see you are back with that autocratic Know it All Attitude? Don't you hotchas of the right ever give it up? CEOs join organizations...like The infamous Chamber of Commerce that is so on the attack against employees it reeks of BS. I see you are also unable to grasp the idea that this is a government and a democracy...not the Norquistian Do As I Say regime?

What sense does it make to pay a CEO who points and delegates all day long more than the employee busting butt doing heavy lifting? All so Mr. CEO can afford his $7,000 shower curtain? Please...spare me the autocratic Know it All BS...not impressed. I know when employees are getting screwed by employers...I've seen enough of it to write a book...and in fact, that might be my next non-fiction. The reality is the men in this country who achieve CEO status think their bowel movements are made of 14K gold...they are employers...that's all...they have not yet achieved rank and file supremacy. And come spring, there's already a huge push to stop the Middle Class from pay a dime more in taxes to the very thieves helping themselves to our tax dollars in corporations...So...do tell..how will CEO salaries go when there's no tax subsidies to rely on to pay the corporate bills? Hmmmmmmmm?

An interesting abstract on effects of unions. I added the emphasis. Also, there was a comment above about union people making more 6-8% more in salary. This is correct. However in right to work states the overall cost of living tends to be lower so in reality everyone has more purchasing power for their $$.

Appeared in Barry T. Hirsch, "Unionization and Economic Performance: Evidence on Productivity, Profits, Investment, and Growth," in Fazil Mihlar, ed. Unions and Right-to-Work Laws, Vancouver, B.C.: The Fraser Institute, 1997, pp. 35-70.

Abstract

The effect of labor unions on economic performance is a crucial factor in evaluating public policy toward union organizing and bargaining rights. This paper evaluates theory and evidence on the relationship of unionization with respect to productivity, profitability, investment, and employment growth. The clear pattern that emerges from the research literature, primarily for the U.S. but also elsewhere, is that unions do not on average increase productivity and that collective bargaining is associated with lower profitability, decreased investment in physical capital and research and development (R&D), and lower rates of employment and sales growth. As long as unionized companies operate in a competitive environment, poor economic performance implies a continuing decline in membership, absent changes in labor law favorable toward union organizing. Yet deleterious union effects on performance tend to undermine rather than buttress the case for labor law reforms that increase union strength. Policies that enhance competition in product and factor markets promote economic growth and limit the costs associated with unionism, yet do little to facilitate the exercise of collective voice and employee participation in the workplace.

Make up your own minds on whether or not unions are good for all.

Employers value good workers and want to keep them at all costs!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, man! That was a good one, especially the "at all costs" part!

Steve,

No, those southern states have less major cities crammed full of entitlement grabbers.

so ya'll don't mind paying for someone else's expenses. that's what this is doing. people who choose not to pay for their union protection, don't have to, but they still get that protection and the paying members have to pay. it's like you paying health insurance at higher premiums because people out there who can afford to pay insurance choose not to since they know they will get the same coverage as you!

you know, you will be the first ones to complain when the unions are gone. you say we have labor laws to protect us now. yeah right. have you ever tried filing a complaint with them? good luck. and more important, those labor laws are subject to state and federal legislatures and just like collective bargaining can be taken away so can your rights as a worker. the only reason you get at least 8 hrs between your shifts is because unions fought for that and the law was enacted. that law can be rescinded just as easily as it was passed. right now in states like pennsylvania they are trying to lower the working age to 14. in california they did away with the 8hr work day so that your boss could force you to work without overtime. the democratic governor that came into office after that reinstated that law.

without a voice, your employer has all the power and you will be at his mercy. look at the people who work at walmart. you think they have it made? the average income is $12 an hour. i guess you could live on that...if you live in your car or a homeless shelter and you have no kids and you're not sick with anything. after taxes that's about 370$ a week. that's $1478 a month. so, what kind of ghetto are you willing to live in? i know, you work, your wife works...well, that's $2956 a month. that sounds like a lot of money and maybe it is in louisiana or kansas and you choose to live like a pauper. but wait! your boss will be able to fire you for any reason and one day you could come to work and find out you don't have a job. or maybe better, without any restrictions your boss can come in and tell you that from now on you get $5 an hour. why should he pay you $12 when he can hire someone else for $5? then you'll have to work, your wife will have to work and i guess your kids will have to work. but, that's ok, because there won't be any school anyway. the republicans backed by big business is fighting like crazy to turn public education into a for profit institution. i mean, public education, giving all kids equal chance to make something of themselves is "SOCIALISM!!!!" aaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!

so, this is the future you want. americans working 16 to 20 hrs a day for $5 an hour (maybe). they work, their wives work, their children work. they live in tenement housing is crime ridden ghettos with no police protection because there aren't enough people who are willing to risk their lives every day for $5 an hour. and if your house catches fire, you better hope your friends can put it out, because there won't be enough firemen out there willing to work and risk their lives for $5 an hour. and if you get sick, i hope you can cure it yourself because you won't be able to afford the for profit hospitals and the 'free' clinics will be run by people who couldn't get licenses anywhere else.

what a wonderful world you have planned. now, unions don't prevent all this, but oh wait! they did. this was life before unions were formed in this country. this was life before workers started standing up for their rights. and the only thing that prevents it from happening again, is the threat of strike and the demand of the multitude of workers. but, you want to live like indentured servants to the corporate overlords.

luckily, this isn't gonna happen. there are too many of us who WILL NOT BEND OVER TO THE LIKES OF THE KOCH BROTHERS! there are enough of us that will stand up and refuse to give in. let's see how all those corporate overlords do when they don't have anyone working for them. are they gonna do the work themselves? that would be cute. when the grocery store workers went on strike here in california a few years ago, the stores lost millions of dollars a day. this time around, when the contract came up they compromised with us. otherwise, we would have had to take cuts in pay(bty-i don't make hundreds of dollars an hour-i don't even make $20 an hour-i don't even work full time-no one does unless you have 25 years senority) meanwhile, the company made 584 million $ in NET profit last year. while they're telling us that we are so difficult, they're rolling in dough, enough that they were able to donate 68$million to charity. that's laudable. if they gave their employees another $68 million in raises, they'd still have $448 million in NET profit. NET-that's after taxes, after expenses, after medical and wages. that's the cream on top of the milk.

ewent " If corporations can't run a business without taxpayer funds, they don't belong in business "

Just like GM & Chrysler huh ?

JV-733028: While you are busy condemning those who disagree with you as hate-filled people, read your own posts JV-733028. They are filled with hatred, bigotry, and the racism you accuse others of having. If you really want to condemn these things, start with yourself.

Do you honestly believe it is just to have a person who belongs to any other political way of thinking forced to pay hefty dues to the Democratic Party via his/her Union dues????????

And finally, instead of saying that "right-wingers" value the unborn more than they do the born, you may want to re-phrase that into stating the fact that those people value life more than they value the murder of the helpless that is done, in most cases, as a form of birth control.

Correction: In one of my previous posts, I wrote, "who's", rather than "whose", which was the correct word I was looking for.

ewent,

My oh my, how in the world have any of us survived not being ruled by a union? Ya know I have never been a member of a union, and I feel like I have made a pretty darn good living for myself. I have worked hard, took pride in what I do, and because of that I have excelled and advanced in my profession. You make it sound like no one will ever get a fair shake if they are not a part of a union. Well, guess what, thousands of hard working Americans do not agree with you.

GOP is going down in flames once again, and once again they are oblivious to their own stupidity.

ewent,

And they say age makes you wise. I see you have gone the vinegar route in old age. My grandfather got Alzheimers when he got old so I can see you are deep in those stages.

For one, I am definitely not on the right. Im more liberal on social issues than almost any person I know. I simply got a degree in economics and that has taught me just how dumb liberal fiscal policies are. They make absolutely no sense and rely on moronic people such as yourself believing that the rich are all evil since you never made anything of yourself. Im also not even close to rich btw. Im simply not blind with jealousy and my own inadequacies.

Yes CEO's join organizations. And workers can too. Im all for workers joining unions if they want to. Im for this thing called choice. You only claim to be when it comes to abortion. When it comes to what people eat, use as a light source, or whether or not they join a thug organization (union) you libs are as anti-choice as possible.

Now onto your other jokes, or ah points. One, it is a republic, not a democracy. Two, the representatives decided to give the workers the choice of joining a union or not. Anti-choice people like you want to force them to join an org. that they dont want to join. Three, I know you guys hate Norquist since you want to get your hands on all those evil rich people's money to pay for more stuff as you leech off everyone, but as this debt crisis is showing, we dont have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. And we dont subsidize companies like you libs keep clamoring. Obama has definitely, but they all pay taxes. Many people in our country do not. They provide jobs, you do not. They help the economy, you slow it down.

Please make a more coherent point next time. It may be hard to see with the tin foil blocking your eyes.

Marksman....Actually, the entire states of MS and LA are nothing but entitlement grabbers....they are the poorest, most uneducated of all the states in the union. But...their religion and culture won't allow them to vote into office either a black man or a Democrat.

ewent: "What sense does it make to pay a CEO who points and delegates all day long more than the employee busting butt doing heavy lifting? All so Mr. CEO can afford his $7,000 shower curtain?"

Rather than complain, why don't you start your own company, and be its CEO? Make it a union shop and compete in the open market for customers. What's stopping you?

ewent is simply a union drone, worker bee. Performing the tasks the hive has assigned. Buzzz buzz buzz buzzzzzzz!

You do not own your success, this Obama ideology extend to unions, workers do not own their sucess Unions own their success , like the Government has the right to take money from your succes if you are a business owner , unions has the right to take money from your paycheck.

Union worker= slave to union

non union worker= free worker

VIVA!!!!!!!! Michigan

Mr Burns....I'd like to point out that you are wrong about a couple of things. While I do agree with you about the unions (they really are outdated and have been for decades), corporations really do tend to be on the greedy, evil side. Most (not all) really don't care about the environment or workers rights. That's why they tend to have a gaggle of lawyers on their staff. They are interested in making profits for themselves and for the stockholders...everything else is secondary. Many do not pay any taxes at all....as a matter of fact, most of the large corporations get refunds from the govt. The tax loopholes and subsidies make sure of that. And, the reason I hate Norquist is because of his stance of 'no higher taxes'. That's like a fireman using a bucket of water to fight a fire and saying 'no matter how bad this fire gets, we are going to continue to just use this bucket to fight it'. That is non-sensical. We are in desperate times, which require more revenues and less spending....but BOTH. The defense department should be the first on the hit list. They generate more spending than the next 17 countries combined on their militaries. If the two parties would just open their eyes to these facts, then we would be much better off.

I've worked in a right to work state for years. Best thing a state could be.. The disparity in incomes are lower in our state because of this law. I've always made a great income here and employers treat worker fairer because of it.

If you want to join the union, you can. Nothing prevents you from paying your dues and we have several unions here, however it is your choice, unlike the laws in Michigan were before the laws changed there, which forced workers to join the union whether the union did anything for them or not. Its now a choice for the people of Michigan. Democracy at it best!

This is just another Republican scheme to destroy the USA! They just enacted a "right to work" law that destroys making unions! (No, it doesn't stop the ability to form unions). They are trying to break unions! (No, the law doesn't stop unions from existing). The workers don't have a say anymore! (Yes they do- they have federal, state, and local laws protecting their rights and statutes protecting a safe working environment). They are breaking up collective bargining, the workers will suffer! (No, the legislation doesn't change collective bargining). OK smarty, what does the change do?!?! (It stops unions from forcing you to pay dues/join if you don't want to). So I don't have to belong to a union to work at the factory? (No you don't. They can't force you to pay for something you don't necessarily want. They can't use your earnings to promote their own political agenda- thus protecting you from giving your money to things you wouldn't support on your own.) That's Un-American!

My original post gets collapsed? Really? So not only do they want to spin this law as an attack against rights but they'll also collapse comments that state otherwise? The truth hurts.

How? By allowing choice rather than forced membership? How is that "sharply" limiting anything? It's expanding rights.

It doesn't allow choice. It's the exact opposite. It limits the rights of two private entities,s a company and a union to come to a mutual agreement. As an individual you are not forced to join a union. You only must join if you insist on working for a company that requires it. It's like saying you are forced to give your boss a weekly report. You can always find a different job if you don't want to meet the job requirements.

No one is saying lower wages in the U.S. If you want a level playing field on goods sold, tax the imported products so the price point for the U.S. produced product is lower then the import price or at least the same. Then it is just an issue of quality for the consumer. Price is no longer part of the equation. Jobs and industry will come back to the U.S.. Who in Washington actually has the guts to mandate that kind of initiative? (I don't know anyone in Washington that has the guts). Washington panders to India and China especially when India & China line the back pockets of both Democrats and Republicans in Washington with money and continue to buy our bad debt. Now, you say, "My congressman and senator would never do that". Who are you kidding! It should be considered treasonable to take a payoff from competing countries. India and China aren't looking out for America's best interest. India and China are the problem, as they create the avenues for this massive transfer of wealth. This is what really should be discussed. Lack of jobs and a weak economy are what's driving the union vs. "right to work" issue in the first place.

We in the U.S. still have the power to reverse the flow of wealth. We still control a GDP of over 25% of the total world GDP. We need to act like we have that kind of power for once. Tell your President and Congressmen to get some backbone in negotiating with the world markets instead of slowly giving everything away that we have worked for, for many generations.

You want change. That's change. Stay focused on the real prize instead of bickering about things that will not help you or your descendants in the long run.

stevef00,

Dont say Im wrong then come at me with stupid talking points.

1. Corporations would be considered sociopaths. I know not a big difference, but they dont purposefully do evil things.

2. And you are wrong about them not paying taxes. They most certainly do. If you ever took a finance class, they all pay taxes, and if you get money through dividends, they are being double taxed. Evil oil companies pay millions in taxes. This whole, they dont pay taxes they get subsidized is a made up fantasy of jealous people.

3. Again, we dont have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. We dont need more taxes, we need to stop spending so much damn money on useless stuff that the left keeps adding on. And the defense budget is less than 20% of the budget. Cut it out completely and tax the wealthiest 400 people in our country 100% of their money and we would still be spending too much money. The math is there in front of you, why dont you people ever look it up?

While I am not a union supporter it should be mentioned that some unions get it today in regards to the work environment. The current winner in the highest production and lowest defect rate is a company that makes auto engines and transmissions for Ford and is beating the world in all levels of production period. I say good for Ford and good for American business. This is however the exception and not the rule. Unless you can compete in your market area on cost, quality, and service someone else will figure out a way to do so. Unions you have been served now lets see the unions start and run their own businesses.

Next

Mr Burns....I tried taking the high road and you come back and insult me....you ignorant POS! Who the hell told you that you are the only one that can be right! That is the biggest problems with morons like you. You think you know everything and that there is only one side of issues....YOUR side! Well....I know quite a bit about corporate structures and the way that they work financially. And while you are indeed correct that corporations do pay taxes, it is offset by the billions that they make as both profit and revenue returns from the govt. Many companies are enjoying record breaking profits in the midst of a recession. And....I agree...that defense spending is 20% of the fed budget, which in effect means that they get 1/5 of all the spending in the entire country! And you don't think that is too much....who's the idiot not looking at the math? And, regardless of what you say....spending is out of control, but so is the lack of revenue. You are using the same old tired talking points of the top 400 people....I got news for you....there are a lot more than 400 people in this country making over 250,000.00 a year, which is what the proposal is for. Why don't you people ever look these things up?

Even though studies have shown our economy was strongest when unions were strong?

Purely coincidence. To be honest, I think unions are more necessary the last couple of years and will be in the near future, but only until this recession is really fixed. And for only one reason, and this is why unions made our economy awesome following the great depression: Business says it can't find the talent and skill it needs coming right out of university. So what can they do? They can train people - the same way it was done in the unions when people were working rather than going to school. Yes, unions were around before the Great Depression, but they would never have become as powerful in the US as they were 20 years ago without it.

Did you all see this headline:

Surprise: New insurance fee in health overhaul law

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/12/11/new-health-insurance-fee/1760479/

see what happens when you dont question your dictator

@Swan37,

Except it doesn't limit the unions' rights or the companies' rights. The relationship between the union and the company still exists. They can still negotiate and come to a mutual agreement. Companies can still hire who they want and unions can still acquire new members. The only "right" that is going by the wayside is the "right" of the union to collect money from people who don't want to be members. The individuals' rights are expanded to have that choice of whether or not to join.

Unions are upset because now they'll be held accountable since poor performance will cost them money that used to be guaranteed regardless of what they did. They'll actually have to work to attract and retain members. Union officials are more worried about their own pocketbook than they are about their members'. If I get the same employment benefits without paying dues, what incentive do I have to join? If I'm a good employee that doesn't run into discipline problems and need the union to back me, then the union has to come up with something else to entice me to join. That cuts into their bottomline and ultimately affects the big money that the higher ups reel in for themselves.

flbikerchick,

Employers value good workers and want to keep them at all costs!

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, man! That was a good one, especially the "at all costs" part!

You have obviously never been valued. Not surprising. You also have no clue what it takes to find, train, and develop a good employee. They are not a dime a dozen. They are extremely valuable. Again, obviously have never been valued.

Did anyone else notice that all the union members were dressed in red? Ya'll know that red symbolizes communism. Red flag and little red book. Interesting reading how unions were developed out of the red movement in the early part of the last century. At that time they served a purpose and can be thanked for the labor laws we have today. Unfortunately along with that came the Communist mentality that still exists today.

stevef00,

Sorry, but when morons put out horrible ideas, someone has to point it out to them.

Let me help you out since you have no clue what you are talking about.

1. Yes, companies make profits, how this means they dont pay taxes, idk. Just about every corporation has to pay net taxes, even if they use subsidies that every other corporation uses. There is no such thing as corporate welfare. Educate yourself.

2. I brought that up because if you take out all of our military spending, we would still run at a deficit. You libs try to say that if we just didnt spend all that money on our military we wouldnt be running up debt. I also want to cut military spending, but the fact that you focused only on that shows that you are ignorant on the costs. Educate yourself.

3. We take in about 15% of our gdp through taxes (federally), then spend about 25% of our taxes in government spending. The wealthy already pay (at over 33%) a fourth of all taxes. Multiply it by three and you get about 26% of our gdp. So yes if you tax the richest people all of their money, you would not run a deficit. If you taxed them at half, and got rid of our military spending, we would still have a deficit. Educate yourself.

Sorry for being rude, but you said I was wrong then never took an economics or math class and tried to say the same tired talking points which mathematically do not work out if we dont tackle our biggest problem, entitlements. Educate yourself.

I voted against the unions adjusting our consitution not because I am against unions, so much, as I am against ANYONE hi-jacking OUR constitution. Now business' want to hi-jack OUR constitution.

What the H-ll is the difference? Doesn't anyone get the idea of WORKING TOGETHER?

All this is doing is creating a new battle ground, Good Job Ricky, you turd.

dogs80, the people did not vote for this. The Republican Congress in Michigan did. This was not on a voters ballot. Where do you come up with your so call facts.

dogs80...the people of Michigan did not vote for this. As a matter of fact, it was attached to an appropriation bill, so people would not be able to vote for or against it.

When I voted this last august there was a measure on that ballat to allow the right to work to be added to the bill. SO YES WE DID VOTE FOR IT.

Thanks Steve,

I was going to answer them but you did it for me. They are proving my point of blaming the Republicans just as I said they would.

The people of Michigan voted against a measure put forward by the unions to force unionization and put it in the state constitution. Thats the vote by the people everyone is talking about. Unions are collapsing and have been for a decade. If you simply look at facts not politics you will find that right to work states have better economic growth. The collapse of the auto industry is the result of unions. Thats why non union Toyota,Nissan, etc thrive and dont need bailouts..Hmmmm

So, I didn't vote for Obama and the Dems but I still get stuck with the healthcare law. Elections have consequences---Michigan voted for a Republican Legislature and they pass bills in the interest of their constituents. Thus, this bill passes.

Look for this governor and the Republicans that supported this to be voted out next cycle.

If you simply look at facts not politics you will find that right to work states have better economic growth.

They also have higher levels of poverty, higher workplace fatality rates, lower average wages and fewer health benefits. Guess who benefits from the "better economic growth?" Give you a hint: it's not the employees.

Right to work states have 6-8% lower wages according to studies.

http://www.epi.org/publication/datazone_rtw_index/

Right to ignorance libtards can generate anything that supports their flacid arguments

@rightwingscrewball

You mean actual empirical evidence and not just the same repeated narratives over and over again in a desperate, yet successful, attempt to make ignorant people believe them?

Wrong, a-hole! This was by a lame duck legislature and an even lamer Governor. The people had no say and there was a one million dollar budget piece added just to make sure the people couldn't override this travesty.

Funny isn't it when actual facts are brought into the conversation. Sometime check out the actual statistics of right to work states. Lower wages, increased worker fatilities, lower graduation rates, and the list goes on.

Yes lyaso, I mean exactly what you said, actual emperical evidence as opposed to scripted libtard talking points. Glad were on the same level.

rightwingscrewball...LMFAO. I am reading lyaso post saying you have not got a clue, and you are agreeing with the post.

corybud3325

Well, other than the higher accident rates... which is hysterical BS... And lower graduation rates, which as usual, is predominantly inner city Liberal Welfare Plantation inhabitants (the suburbs are doing FINE). All of those things you mention add up to lower cost services and goods... in other words, competitive companies... and the cost of livng is way lower in right to work states, so we live better on less....

And uh, voters, yes voters elected those Republicans... guess they got tired of the way Liberals had been fleecing them all those years...

DeJay,

Cool story bro.

@Ewent, People are inherently evil the only difference between republicans and democrats is democrats take advantage of people through government and republicans do it through business. Either way no one is looking out for you. Personally I vote republican because morally I agree more with them and because if you give government the money and the gun (law enforcement) the people have nothing and that is when dictatorship and socialism destroy once great nations.

"The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history"

The back-handed way this bill was rushed through a lame duck legislature and Republican Governor tells us there is something rotten in Lansing.

There is a silver lining. Once the people of Michigan discover the havoc on wages and benefits caused by this bill, the Republican reign of terror will end for decades. I fully expect the same on a national level after the battles of the fiscal cliff and raising the coming debt limit have been concluded.

The Republicans have forgotten their last 20 year banishment from the White house (1933 to 1953) while Congressional majority was withheld until 1996. These are different times with the very same worn out Republican tactics. Adios and good riddance.

The workers have nothing to do with it...Republicans are reducing union income so it will be easier for them to buy elections...republicans can now get unlimited donations from corporations and crime families, democrats have to rely on millions of small donations and some from the very few and getting fewer unions.

They just want to be sure they can buy all elections in the future and pay no taxes and pay workers slave wages and no benefits.

Republicans really miss slavery.

Actually, if you knew anything about history amazedandalarmed you would know it was the Republicans who were against slavery and actually abolished it.

Actually if you knew anything about history then you would know it was the Republicans who abolished slavery and southern Democrats who were for it.

The problem the state faces, the unions don't wish to face, because it puts the unions at odds with each other. The states have to pass a budget, as do the municipalities and the school districts. They can tax, and as such, there are state income taxes, property taxes, and sales taxes. A portion of the taxes goes to the salary and benefit packages of the state, municipal, and other employees like teachers. These employees are members of what are deemed as public employee unions. All who pay state, property, and sales tax are paying into the costs of public employee union members.

In private industry, their revenues are generated by sales of goods or services. The car style must sell on its own merits, which once it sells, generates sales taxes. The auto industry employees pay state, federal, property tax and sales taxes, and maybe union dues... all on the sale of the product. If the product doesn't sell, it's not like they have the power to tax, so the plant gets shut down. If there are diminished tax revenues, for whatever reason, then there are cuts to public employees. So to a public employee, it's to their advantage to have smaller, more numerous and more diversified labor and industry to guarantee the property and sales taxes revenue base of their salaries. If companies get too small however, there's no justification for labor union involvement. And that's where unions clash. You can't raise the property taxes on the public employees to pay their own salaries and benefit packages, without raising everyone's property tax. If property declines in value due to closed manufacturing, you loose property taxes, sales taxes, and state income taxes.

And this is where right to work pops in. It's intellectually designed for smaller industries of few workers, thus maintaining stability to state tax revenues, property tax revenues, and sales tax revenues. So a public employee union member who is opposed to right to work is either a liar or a fool. On the other hand they have to support the private unions, knowing their own union might be the private sector union's reason for demise. Now they are hypocritical besides. The private sector union needs the property tax revenues to increase, and therefore the wage and benefit demands. but to do so can't be competing against small non union shops... which again means less property tax revenues if they fail. It's a snake eating its own tail, as the head gets bigger, the body shrinks.

Mikey:

How many times do we have to remind you brain dead idiots that civil rights passed by the LBJ admin caused the Southern Dixiecrats to change parties and become the KKKGNOP we know today.

Commonsense: Kinda like Obamacare, huh? "Just pass it...we can find out what's in it later" (Maybe not an exat quote, but spoken by Nancy Pelosi during debates about the healthcare bill). Something's rotten in more places than Lansing...seems to be wherever politicians gather! (You may have noted that I did not mention one party or the other...that is not an oversight!)

If the union does what they are supposed to do, then they can collectively bargain for good rates. Nothing has changed... except for the union leadership's "aristocratic ruling class" freedom from accountability to its workers.

Really??? Is the illuminati in on this too??? You silly liberals are the biggest hypocrites on the face of the earth! You all were simply "giddy" when the almighty bho finished buying his re-election bid, and wagged your finger at anyone who didn't agree like a bunch of freaking children. The good people in Michigan participated in the Democratic Process, and elected these people into the offices they are currently holding. Didn't your hero say something to the effect, "Well, I won. So it's my way or the highway!". Silly liberals want their cake, and to eat it too! Hypocrites of the absolutely worst degree.

It never takes nutters long to display their Koch dimentia.

NPCDan, yes those officials were voted in.......but just wait until the next election.....they will then be voted out. Just watch.

It never takes someone without an argument long to go to ad hominem attacks.

Hey Einstein-how many plants do GM, Ford, and Chrysler have overseas? Oh yeah Ricky sent those jobs over there didn't he??

Right on the money big daddy !. In steady of maintaining educational/ living standards here let's lower them to a third worlds economy. The only winners here are corporations and their investors

JC, Unions or no unions. Doesn't matter. Our world is run by something much bigger than our government. Our government does what they are told by an elite group of bankers. (I know it sounds like parinoia...) The goal is to remove the middle class. This in turn creates the "Have's" and the "Have-Not's". I would like to suggest that you, or anyone reading this, read: Creature from Jekyll Island which is non-fiction (by: G.E. Griffin) and Captains and the Kings which is fiction (by: Taylor Caldwell). I used to be a "Rebublican" but now I'm a person that doesn't care much for politics. I do care about how we as people can change our country. Right to work doesn't bother me. What bothers me is how the system we are all part of operates. Think about how daunting it is and what little we really know about it. Think about how nothing is really done for the people by the people. Take care...

You all were simply "giddy" when the almighty bho finished buying his re-election bid

And the right were dumbfounded when Romney couldn't buy the election, despite massively outspending the competition.

You won't find anyone of the left admitting that we spend too much, not one. Seems like they think money grows on their green trees. Some day they will wake up when it all gone and the debt is completely unserviceable.