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I totally condemn the attack on the Israeli bus as cowardly that cannot be justified, even considering the fact that Israel bombed the hell out of Gaza, killing 140 and injuring 1000.

Sadly, you are, to use an English colloquialism, "pissing into the wind" if you are imagining that you will have any kind of rational conversation or dialogue with the individual who hides behind the pseudonym of "Tzatz".
In my experience (being neither a Palestinian nor an Islamist, not a Zionist or an Israeli) trying to deal on a rational level with such a person is akin to trying to have a sensible conversation with a red flag waving Stalinist during the 1930s or a Little Red Book toting Maoist during the 1960s: none of them are either interested in facts or amenable to reason. The only answers they are capable of - because of both the limitations imposed by their ideologies and the intellectual inadequacies that allow such hard-line ideologies to root in the first place - is that "they are right and the rest of the world is wrong..." Sad.

Err, any news yet in identifying the slug who fired the missile or shell into the apartment building that supposedly housed a Hamas leader but which even the Israeli military subsequently (and sotto voce - rather quietly!) admitted was "the wrong target". Only ten dead including children. But, there again, as the State of Israel has awarded itself (under its unique and "exceptional" status) the right to kill at least 100 Palestinians for every single Israeli dead, there's nothing else to be said (or done) then is there. QED.

NO ARAB COUNTRY SHALL ACCEPT INTEGRATION NOR GRANT ITS RESPECTIVE NATIONALITY TO "PALESTINIANS"...This is a decree issued by the SArab League in 1948 and still valid today! No arab country wants the palestinians, they hate and loathe them. They need them to focus their peoples' rage against Jews and Israel and to so control their populations. If those palestinians kicked out their terrorist leaders, made a true peace treaty with Israel, they'd build one of the most powerful nations in all of the Middle East, and this is what Arab governments DON'T WANT!

You speak as a superior condesending racist person. You and your people are not better than Palestinians or any other nation. I hope also that they catch the thugs that killed all those children and women in gaza.

Haniyeh? Meshel? Zahar?

I hope they catch them as well … the sooner the better … off with their heads!

You talk like an Christian Arab who REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE how 'put down' YOU REALLY ARE … WHO REFUSES TO ACKNOWLEDGE THEIR TRUE STATUS IN THE ARAB/MUSLIM WORLD … if you can't get that straight … how can YOU be believed talking about the Israelis?

The JEWISH STATE is the ONLY state in the ARAB/MUSLIM WORLD with a GROWING Christian Population! And it's not converts from Judaism … LOL

SO … KEEP YOUR HANAN ASHRAWI BS TO YOURSELF …

No one is asking Arab countries to give their NATIONALITY to Palestinians. IT IS ONE NATIONALITY. Palestine to an Egyptian is like New Jersey to a New Yorker. They are ALL Americans.

The solution is PEACE based on INTERNATIONAL LAW.

Jews and Arabs must live in peace and LIKE EACH OTHER !

I reject ANTI-SEMITISM in all its forms.

Why do we need another Arab/Muslim majority country?

Especially … one that will have 2 HALVES … separated by Israel AND HAVING TO SHARE JERUSALEM?

What's best is what's easiest to achieve … Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan …

Jordan and Egypt ALREADY have Peace Agreements with Israel … so there won't be issues … 

and

these are STATES WITH existing TREATIES that can keep the peace (as they've proven) … should give Israelis the motivation to be MORE forthcoming … ensuring that Compromises and Concessions would satisfy ALL parties … a slam dunk

The dysfunctional Filistanis … cannot … will not … should not … be allowed to keep the world waiting … let's move on

Omar, be real. Who fired the missiles into Israel? The no army, no navy, no air force?

Wow … raja-poo … you've got Jonny Brit advocating … he's an army of ! … and he's divided calling both sides imbeciles! LOL

It's this way … the Arab/Muslims will continue to wag their finger at Israel … or shoot their guns in the air … LOL but so what? When a tree falls in the forsst … does anybody hear?

Hello?

By the way as a dog owner … I'm having you reported … what's your address?

This isn't genocide. Please don't misuse the word.

Definition:
The deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political or cultural group.

Source: Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary (hardcopy, not from the web)

You need to address yourself to Hamas. If this is genocide, Hamas brought it on the people of Gaza because it is in the midst of a power struggle with Salafists. Place the blame where it belongs.

You seem to be confused about the meaning of the word genocide. This is a war btween hamas, a branch of the Moslem Brotherhood, and Israel. Hamas is using the Palestinian people as sacrificial lambs in order to win its battle with competitors in the power game in Gaza, such as the Salafists. The tribal power struggles are the reason Hamas provoked Israel incessantly until Israel finally retaliated. Crying about non-existent genocide is childish and unintelligent.

Portion of Appendix: Quotes confirming that Arab leaders told Arabs to flee:
20. "As early as the first months of 1948, the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes ... and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property." -- Bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957.
21. "Israelis argue that the Arab states encouraged the Palestinians to flee. And, in fact, Arabs still living in Israel recall being urged to evacuate Haifa by Arab military commanders who wanted to bomb the city." -- Newsweek, January 20, 1963.
22. "The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead." -- The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.
23. In listing the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948, Khaled al-Azm (Syrian Prime Minister) notes that “…the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it (Palestine) and leave for the bordering Arab countries. Since 1948, it is we who have demanded the return of the refugees, while it is we who made them leave. We brought disaster upon a million Arab refugees by inviting them and bringing pressure on them to leave. We have accustomed them to begging...we have participated in lowering their morale and social level...Then we exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson and throwing stones upon men, women and children...all this in the service of political purposes...” -- Khaled el-Azm, Syrian prime minister after the 1948 War, in his 1972 memoirs, published in 1973.
24. "The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable." -- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin
el-Thawra (“What We Have Learned and What We Should Do”), Beirut, March 1976.
25. “Since 1948, the Arab leaders have approached the Palestinian problem in an irresponsible manner. They have used to Palestinian people for political purposes; this is ridiculous, I might even say criminal...” -- KING HUSSSEIN, Hashemite kingdom of Jordan, 1996.
David Meir-Levi lectures in English, Hebrew, and Spanish and is a contributor to Frontpagemag.com. The Big Arab Lie By: David Meir-Levi
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, May 18, 2005

Omer Kahled has 22 Recommends …

What does this prove? That there are 1.5 BILLION Muslims on Planet Earth … and there are some people who 'fear' their ire …

The Filistanis have 400 MILLION QATAR $$$ … earned on the back of Western OIL USAGE … 

Without OIL $$$$ the Arab/Muslims DON'T HAVE A POT TO PISS IN …

WHAT HAVE THEY INVENTED … DEVELOPED … CREATED?

BESIDES POVERTY … RACISM … SLAVERY … INEQUALITY … DISCRIMINATION?

If there were ethnic cleansing and occupation going on … take it to the courts …

As far as friends goes … THERE ARE 1.2 ARAB/MUSLIM CITIZENS OF THE JEWISH STATE … or haven't you heard? Druze and Bedouin even join the IDF and serve!

So wake up and stop the dis-information BS!

The thugs in Hamas will continue to be 'dead men/women walking' if they launch attacks against the Jewish State … there is no offering 'the other cheek' … 

Arab/Muslims only know ONE THING … RESPECT FOR POWER … Read Lee Smith: The Strong Horse: Power, Politics, and the Clash of Arab Civilizations

"Respect your neighbor"? Didn't Palestine shoot first???

What totally baffles me about this is how no one, on either side, possesses any capacity to see things from the OTHERS shoes. I know enough history (even being an American) to know a little of what this conflict is based around (historically), and none involved see that they are arguing over the same piece of land, for the exact same reasons and, just like in the US, the most extreme of you over there are dictating things to the rest. Unlike the middle eastern nations however, we Americans have the right to stand up for ourselves...The extremes of the world better take notice-the silent middle will not stay silent and passive much longer :/.

Sry, that wasn't meant to come out sounding like an American revolutionary speech: it was meant to point out that, world wide, the silent majority of us are getting tired of what how the extremes dictate politics globally. Here in the US, the 'silent majority' is...restless, to put it mildly (i'm not referring to 'conservatives' either).
Many here question how a president can get re elected with a job performance like his over the last 4 years. Times in the US are changing, but not in the way this current president (or the UN)wants.

It's like this … 'DON'T DO UNTO OTHERS WANT YOU DON'T WANT DONE BACK AT YOU'

This is the mantra that Arab/Muslim resisters must understand … if they follow this simple 'biblical' rule … there would be a lot less dead Arab/Muslims under concrete!

As for changing times in the USA … the USA will make a rebound just like they're capable of making … NEVER discount the ability of the American People … they are the greatest 'hope' of Planet Earth

According to United Nations resolution in 1947,the area of Israel's land is 27 thousand square kilometre.how much area do Israel have? they have robbed Arabian land.

The numbers speak for themselves. The Israelis agreed the swap of 1024 Palestinians for one of their own, meaning they value him as much as 1024 Palestinians. What does that make the Israeli government? Racist. And the latest mass murder conducted by Israel bears out that fact.

As far as the Jewish resistance, they like Hamas were considered to be terrorists. They didn't just kill German soldiers either, like Hamas. Wow, such similarities is Hamas compared to the Israeli government the same as Jewish resistance was to the Nazi government?

Israel has 22 thousands square kilometers. Where could Israel come to receive missing 5 thousands you're giving her?
Frankly, Arabian land is Arabia. Jewish land is Yudea and Israel. Arabs invaded it in 8th century, then Turks, then British, and it's time it's back to Jews. As plain as that. Hamas representative told on official television few days ago "all Arabs here (in Gaza) have roots in Egypt or Saudi Arabia"

300 MILLION ARAB/MUSLIMS

6 MILLION ISRAELIS

The ratio is 50 : 1

Keep that in mind.

Hold on there...war is supposed to be just? If every army used the same weapons, number of men etc (and including same number of fatalities) no one would win.

No not racist. I love my kids at least 100 times more than I love yours. Does that make me racist? I think not. I do not know what race you are...I love my family more.

I guess the Nazis loved their kids more than their Jewish brethren then? I guess the holocaust was ok then, war is never just, its just a matter of one side having better weapons than the other? Great to see I'm having a debate with a group of dim witted bullies.

The difference between the two parties: Hamas wants to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible, and does not mind how many Palestinians dies because their deaths are useful in the propaganda effort. If the lives of Palestinian civilians were important, then Hamas fighters would not use the civilians as human shields, and would not locate arms bunkers and missile launch sites in civilian neighborhoods.

On the other hand, Israel tries to avoid killing civilians; it uses expensive and sophisticated smart weapons to attack individual vehicles, buildings, even a particular room in a multi-story building. If it wanted to kill civilians, then it would use the kinds of cheap unguided weapons that the Palestinians use.

Israel is also using a sophisticated defense system to protect its own civilians. The Palestinians have no defenses because they do not care about civilian casualties. I wonder, are there even air raid sirens in Gaza?

You said: "… But there is a difference between fighting for freedom …"

The freedom the Filistanis should be fighting for is …

freedom from Fatah-the corrupt thugs of the West Bank

freedom from Hamas-the Police State thugs of Gaza

These are the dysfunctional leaders of a dysfunctional polity! There are 'some' smart younger Filistanis … educated in the West … who need to step up and take LEADERSHIP ROLES inside the WB & Gaza …

So Victor Koretsky supports what happened in Dresden. Rather creepy. Victor Koretsky had better get a basic education in what happened in Palestine beginning in the 1930s, when Arab tenant farmers began to be displaced from their land by mass Jewish immigration. The situation became so bad that Britain attempted to stop the immigration with the White Paper. And how about the Irgun, that band of 'fighters' who blew up Arab civilians on busses and in buildings with a ferocity that would astonish anyone who thinks terrorism is only the province of Arabs. The same policies that created the Arab Revolt of 1936 - take Arab land and move them into ghettos - continue today. And don't be fooled into thinking that Israel wants an independent Palestine. It is contrary to all its goals.

jbaustian: "The Palestinians have no defenses because they do not care about civilian casualties. I wonder, are there even air raid sirens in Gaza?"

Could money be a factor, jb? Could access to requisite defence materials be a factor? Of course, they could. So why have you ignored those factors? Could you have been blinded by your emotions in relation to this sickeningly tragic conflict?

Paul Ekman, a professor emeritus of UCSF, an author of 14 books, and a researcher who has worked in cultures as far apart as San Francisco hippies and Borneo highland tribes has written 'Emotions Revealed', published by Henry Holt in 2007. You might want to read it because in it Dr. Ekman referred to the concept of a refractory moment as a period “during which time our thinking cannot incorporate information that does not fit, maintain, or justify the emotion we are feeling. This refractory state may be of more benefit than harm if it is brief, lasting for only a second or two. In that short window it focuses our attention on the problem at hand, using the most relevant knowledge that can guide our initial actions, as well as preparations for further action. But difficulties can arise or inappropriate emotional behaviour may occur when the refractory period lasts much longer ..."

So, while I accept that Israel tries to avoid killing civilians, can you accept, jb, that some Palestinians may feel so desperate that they are simply resisting Israeli government behaviour in the only way they can get to feel some hope of gaining a sense of freedom, dignity, and whatever else you too might want?

tzatz: "There are 'some' smart younger Filistanis … educated in the West … who need to step up and take LEADERSHIP ROLES inside the WB & Gaza …"

Yes, there are! Happy to hear you keep a distinction between people educated in the West and people who don't have that opportunity. Perhaps, tzazt, you could champion the idea of Israel offering scholarships to Palestinians to get education in the West. But, if you did, you would still run into the difficulty of the friends of such awarded scholars being suspicious they were 'sleeping with the enemy'. Which means, tzatz, that you and your fellow Israelis have one huge job to do to undo the mistrust of Palestinians of the Israeli Government. Nonetheless, you have no rational option but to begin that work. Otherwise 300 million to 7 or 8 million might prove in due course to be be odds similar to those in Germany around Kristallnacht ...

The difference was that the Jews had NO ONE … NO STATE … to defend them. They were merely citizens of various states that in the end … handed the Jews over for slaughter … in one way or the other.

Israel is the defender of the Jewish People … despite their numbers … they have the BEST EQUIPPED … BEST TRAINED … BEST MOTIVATED … BEST AIR FORCE … ARMED FORCES in the Middle East … 

In case you haven't noticed … they will not be attacked by the Arab/Muslims since the country of origin would be reduced to rubble. It's not a boast … the Arab/Muslim street may shout but their military's no better than to wage war against Israel …

The non–state actors … Hezbollah and Hamas … DON'T KNOW BETTER … they just act out with their hearts NOT THEIR HEADS … that is, looking for a PROPAGANDA VICTORY … that they can sell to their publics … as long as they can survive the onslaught … they win! Well … that's what they sell to their public looking for ANY glimmer of victory … but in the end … it takes LONGER AND LONGER for even these 'purist' Islamists to come back and start trouble.

tzazt: "Israel is the defender of the Jewish People … despite their numbers … they have the BEST EQUIPPED … BEST TRAINED … BEST MOTIVATED … BEST AIR FORCE … ARMED FORCES in the Middle East …"

Israel is also required by international law to protect the people it has conqured. That takes more than the best (blah, blahs) you have pridefully mentioned. And the better you are at those blah blahs the better you must learn to be at peacemaking.

"In case you haven't noticed … they (Israel) will not be attacked by the Arab/Muslims since the country of origin would be reduced to rubble. It's not a boast … the Arab/Muslim street may shout but their military's no better than to wage war against Israel"

On the contrary, Palestinians seem to me be attacking Israel with whatever weapons they can get. Perhaps Israelis could forget at least some of the horrors of the holocaust and start to learn something from other minorities in the position of an occupying power -- like for example the British in Palestine until she handed her mandate back to the UN, or the Americans in the Phillipines, or the British in Malaya or Northern Ireland, all the latter three of which are today comparitively peaceful, although not yet totally so.

This is not to say that those minority occupations were conducted faultlessly, but it is to say that, after 65 years have passed, the Israelis don't seemed to have learned anything but to beg for money and arms from America and then to use those arms in a disciplined way to quell desperadoes. Perhaps Israeli governments' priorities have simply been misguided by heartless heads ...

Tsk, tsk, tsk. The same fatuous old irredentist drivel from the ultra-Zionists. It's a case of never knowing when enough is enough to compromise.

You could have reached a reasonable settlement years ago broadly based on the pre-1967 borders but you've done everything possible to frustrate such a deal, instead stealing, thieving, expropriating, robbing and then downright mugging an entire indigenous population of their land and water. Back in the 1930s and 1940s, another group of zealots in Germany used their own version of state religion to justify what they called "lebensraum" or "living space". You might want to have a chat to any remaining grand-parents for you to develop a better understanding of what that lead to and to what modern Israel is now comparing itself against. There is a choice either to learn from history or to pervert it; it would appear that your choice is the latter.

People are responsible for their choices, including governments they vote for and following policies pursued by those governments.
You, John Willow, are right - basic education is must for this discussion, and you lack it severely:
Arab population of Palestine came in following Jewish immigration creating jobs and modern economy, before British even occupied Palestine; the whole point of British mandate for Palestine was creation of Jewish national home (not Arab!) - yet first move they did was creating Jordan kingdom on 60% of the land of Palestine. British, afraid of Arab revolts, put deadly restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine in late 1930-s, factually helping Nazis in Europe to murder Jews there. Even after the war ended, British continued stop Jewish immigration, intercepting immigrants and putting people just released from Nazi's concentration camps into British concentration camps on Cypress, until British were thrown out of Palestine by armed resistance and lack of will to keep holding it. Arabs killed Jews before, during and after those events, regardless to ideology, excuses and explanations. Arabs killed Arabs more than they killed Jews - even this days, every day in Syria more people are killed than in entire clash with Hamas - and yet, nobody cares about it - it's "normal" that Arabs kill Arabs, no?
Shame.

You said: "… learn something from other minorities in the position of an occupying power …"

Your premise is false. Israel is NOT an occupying power! The occupier of Gaza was Egypt … the occupier of the West Bank was Jordan … Israel swept these states from the battlefield!

The examples you mention … went home … America and Britain … the ISRAELIS ARE HOME!

What you don't get is … the Arab/Muslims agenda is the removal of Jews/Zionists/Israelis from ALL THE LAND BETWEEN THE SEA AND THE RIVER … that's their goal.

You said: "… beg for money and arms from America …"

The total amount of the $$$ given Israel in military aid is $3 BILLION … a lot of $$$ … but the total GDP of Israel currently is … $235.446 BILLION Israel is thankful for the aid given by its great ally … BUT in reality it's a 2-way street … Israel offers the USA … research … strategic information … weapon enhancement … and much more … THEY ARE TRULY ALLIES …

• liberal democracies under the rule of law
• sharing freedom
• equality for all citizens - men, women, gays, arabs, muslims, Druze, Christians et al
• separate judiciary … separate police … little corruption
• free market economy

That's why the bond between the USA and Israel can't be broken … it's because they share the same vision … breathe the same air!

I suggested to tzatz and his colleagues: "… learn something from other minorities in the position of an occupying power …"

tzatz replied: "Your premise is false. Israel is NOT an occupying power! The occupier of Gaza was Egypt … the occupier of the West Bank was Jordan … Israel swept these states from the battlefield!"

You have written that the occupier of Gaza was Egypt … the occupier of the West Bank was Jordan. So who NOW IS THE OCCUPIER of the West Bank, and who know is 'ring fencing' Gaza? You cannot escape the fact that Israel is NOW an occupying power without pretending you are living decades ago.

I won't bother to address the rest of your fatuosities, tzatz, until you make a genuine effort to write accurately about the present circumstances, in which ISRAEL IS AN OCCUPYING POWER. This is not to say there are not extenuating circumstances for Israel's temporary occupation, but the facts are undeniable that cowardly and, I dare say also, dishonest Israeli governments have failed to stand up to Israeli extremists demanding to build residences in the lands of Israel's occupation.

How many Jews lived in Mandate Palestine at the time of the Arab Revolt beginning in 1936? Care to guess? ~370,000 … IN THE ENTIRE MANDATE … approx 25% of the TOTAL POPULATION ARAB/JEWS …

Notice how it's called the Arab Revolt! That's because it was an Arab War against Jews and against the British who kept the peace. Frankly, the numbers of dead Arab/Muslims was OVER 5,000 … was that a GENOCIDE TOO? Just asking? LOL

BTW … you're mixing up HISTORY AND FACTS … the Irgun was created after the British White Paper ended Jewish immigration … and the British became the impediment to realizing the goal of homeland/statehood … the British tried to solve the Arab Revolt by suggesting to divide the land between Arabs & Jews … GUESS WHAT? THE JEWS ACCEPTED AND THE ARABS REJECTED.

Let me know if anything has changed?

You said: "This is not to say there are not extenuating circumstances for Israel's temporary occupation …"

OK … Israel is an occupying power … JUST LIKE … America after WWII in Germany or America after WWII in Japan …

Israel will give up the occupation once they can seed control to a governing body over which there is a permanent PEACE AGREEMENT AND SIGNED OFF BY THE ARAB/MUSLIM STATES (the ARAB LEAGUE) … such an agreement has NOT YET BEEN ACCOMPLISHED …

BTW … UN242 which ended the hostilities never mentioned a return to the Green Line of 1967 … the armistice line of 1948 …

"The most controversial clause in Resolution 242 is the call for the "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict." This is linked to the second unambiguous clause calling for "termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and the recognition that "every State in the area" has the "right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."

The resolution does not make Israeli withdrawal a prerequisite for Arab action. Moreover, it does not specify how much territory Israel is required to give up. The Security Council did not say Israel must withdraw from "all the" territories occupied after the Six-Day war. This was quite deliberate. The Soviet delegate wanted the inclusion of those words and said that their exclusion meant "that part of these territories can remain in Israeli hands." The Arab states pushed for the word "all" to be included, but this was rejected. They nevertheless asserted that they would read the resolution as if it included the word "all." The British Ambassador who drafted the approved resolution, Lord Caradon, declared after the vote: "It is only the resolution that will bind us, and we regard its wording as clear."

This literal interpretation was repeatedly declared to be the correct one by those involved in drafting the resolution. On October 29, 1969, for example, the British Foreign Secretary told the House of Commons the withdrawal envisaged by the resolution would not be from "all the territories." When asked to explain the British position later, Lord Caradon said: "It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of June 4, 1967, because those positions were undesirable and artificial."

Furthermore, "The resolutions clearly call on the Arab states to make peace with Israel. The principal condition is that Israel withdraw from "territories occupied" in 1967, which means that Israel must withdraw from some, all, or none of the territories still occupied. Since Israel withdrew from 91% of the territories when it gave up the Sinai, it has already partially, if not wholly, fulfilled its obligation under 242."

These are ONLY the facts … the Arab/Muslim narrative is WISHFUL THINKING … IN OTHER WORDS … BULL SHIT!

Thank you for acknowledging that your pretence that Israel is not an occupying power was fatuous. Please take care never again to introduce fatuous notions in this blog, or anywhere else. You do no one a favour but you certainly attract anger to your self, and very rightly so.
.
Thank you also for detailing the facts you have troubled to express here. They do justify my allowance that there are extenuating circumstances. However, you end your resort to the facts with another insult hurled at the people your government occupies. That is reminiscent of an insult hurled by a British brigadier at an Indian protest group in the 1920s. For that behaviour, the brigadier was hauled on the carpet by the British House of Commons.
So tzatz, consider yourself hauled in the carpet here, and get your now hopefully unfatositized self into the Knesset and apologize for contempt of the people your governmnt is solemnly charged, AS AN OCCUPYING POWER, to protect, or else heap more disgrace on your gratuitously insulting head and gratuitously insulting fellow citizens.
Wasn't two wrongs don't make a right the very first parental judgment you can remember? Never forget that. NEVER.
Next, there has been no sign of Israelis wihdrawing from the West Bank. Indeed, the reverse has been the case. Why then would the people you wantonly insult trust you or your blinkered government?

26. “Abu Mazen Charges that the Arab States Are the Cause of the Palestinian Refugee Problem” (Wall Street Journal; June 5, 2003):

• Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) penned an article in March 1976 in Falastin al-Thawra (cf. supra), the official journal of the PLO in Beirut: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe" (emphasis added).

• As Abu Mazen alluded, it was in large part due to threats and fear-mongering from Arab leaders that some 700,000 Arabs fled Israel in 1948 when the new state was invaded by Arab armies. Ever since, the growing refugee population, now around 4 million by UN estimates, has been corralled into squalid camps scattered across the Middle East - in Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Gaza, and the West Bank.

• In 1950, the UN set up the United Nations Relief and Works Agency as a "temporary" relief effort for Palestinian refugees. Former UNRWA director Ralph Galloway stated eight years later that, "the Arab states do not want to solve the refugee problem. They want to keep it as an open sore, as a weapon against Israel. Arab leaders do not give a damn whether Arab refugees live or die." The only thing that has changed since then is the number of Palestinians cooped up in these prison camps.”

The Big Arab Lie By: David Meir-Levi
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, May 18, 2005
Last entry to the Appendix: Appendix: Quotes confirming that Arab leaders told Arabs to flee/

"The Big Arab Lie" ... sounds like such an unbiased source there. Go back to your hand party with Victor. You aren't convincing anyone here.

Hmm … sorry I missed your diatribe … as I said … Israel is an occupying MILITARY FORCE … replacing the previous OCCUPYING MILITARY FORCES … EGYPT AND JORDAN … occupying respectively … Gaza and the West Bank.

The insult is hurled with malice … (the British General was a colonial hack in the employ of her Majesty) … Israel is doing an unpleasant and unrewarding occupation … had the Arab/Muslims deemed to make peace AFTER the war in 1967 … there would have been NO OCCUPATION … instead the Arab/Muslims met to announce their infamous … 3 No's … no recognition … no peace … no talking to Israel …

Get yourself acquainted with the details of the Arab/Israeli Conflict … and stop yourself from insinuating a colonial comparison …

Don't school me on parenting … I've been a teacher and a parent … 

The Filistanis on the West Bank and Gaza … don't have to trust the Israelis … they need to make a deal and desist from violence … GOOD FENCES MAKE GOOD NEIGHBOURS … it's a lesson I've learned as a homeowner … LOL

An occupying military force has obligations to protect the people resident in the teriotory it is occupying. My father was a Colonel in the British Army which conducted the process of the country of Malaysia emerging as an independent nation even as Chinese Communist guerillas were seeking to make it communist, so I know of which I speak. And it is NO coincidence that, as a derivative of his and his soldiers hard and disciplined work, that Malaysians were recently found, in a global poll, to be the happiest citizens on earth.

You may hurl any insult of malice you wish, tzatz, but the fact is that until Israel learns from the British experience in Malaya which was a learning from the British experience in many other parts of the world over two generations, Israel will continue to look like racist pigs by comparison.

I certainly shall tell you of my experience as the coach of a grandmother and teacher, born in Holland, in the Toronto school system. Joan Pennings is a retired elementary school teacher from the Ontario Catholic School Board, mother of three successful children, grandmother to four more beautiful people, and the owner, and generous lender, of a small library of books written by many wise moderns. Here is her testimony:

"Authentix group sessions are truly stimulating and enjoyable ways to become more clearly aware of each others' needs and wants. Becoming consciously aware of my emotions or moods can be very helpful in certain circumstances, and practising IHXENs has helped me become aware that my feelings often originate in my emotions or moods. A conscientious practitioner of Adlerian psychology in the classroom would be able to use IHXENs, I believe, to empower certain children to become consciously aware of their emotions, which would save them having to learn this lesson much later in life when it becomes more difficult to undo earlier acquired habits whose existence and dysfunctionality had escaped their notice. Now that Angus has given us an overview of the entire Eye-Zen suite of Rational Emoto-Linguistics and their synergistic relationships one to another, I look forward to discovering more of the power of the Eye-Zen process to solve both individual and inter-personal problems. Following Angus' suggestions for use of Eye-Zen English in composing my narratives of recent family history, I have come to quite a few new insights. Moreover, after feeling safe with Angus to express feelings of rage, or intense anger, or abject grief, or exasperation in the carrying out of my material responsibilities, I am learning to channel the energy of such socially incorrect emotions to state what I don't like and suggest what might satisfy me. I have also been motivated to improve my diet. Angus' book should be a bestseller1" -- Apr - Oct 2007
"Having meditated regularly for many years, I was suspicious at first of IHXENs. But the fact is I cannot meditate just when I have strong emotions, which often arise when I am in public. So now I continue regularly meditating and also practise IHXENs occasionally with a partner. This is resulting in my experiencing virtually complete relief from having inadvertently let other people rely too much on my natural sympathies for whatever plight they describe to me. I have hope this will, in due course, facilitate the emergence in conversation of creative possibilities for putting the talents, skills, and relationship assets of a small group to good use. I am also enjoying using the Eye-Zen English Starter Kit to refesh my knowledge and stimulate my thinking". -- Feb-Mar 2012

Difference is they are readily supplied with arms by the US and UK... and France gave them the nuclear bomb a few decades back. Yes, I would think that the Jews in the Israeli government would know better, considering how much importance they attach to the holocaust. Instead you get comments like "bomb them into the middle ages" from Sharon's son. Matan Vilnai, deputy defence minister, "The more qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah (holocaust) because we will use all our might to defend ourselves."

"Bomb them into the middle ages" seems like a reference to Netanyahu's remarks to the UN General Assembly, where he referred to the wars between modern societies and those Islamist groups with a medieval mindset. According to this view, returning to the Middle Ages is exactly what the Arabs want to do.

Wait!! You are agreeing that the Israelis are better or should know better than you? Sad that you think so low of yourself. No one respects a person who does not respect himself.

jbaustian, I call bullshit on that. regardless, there have been several politicians quoted making similar remarks. How about the deputy defense minister?

Bret? Try and make some sense when you post something. Are you trying to say the Israelis are better, because I sure as hell am not. Maybe you should get Netanyahu to be your prime minister there in Trinidad if you like him so much.

The court of world opinion is against you. Mr. Guest.

You said: "But, we can wait."

For Godot? You Muslims believe in fate … well the fortune teller told me your fate is MORE OF THE SAME … CONTINUED SUFFERING … AND SUDDEN DEATH FROM THE AIR!

You wanna wait? Wait for what? To move to America?

I think not sir. The court of Arab opinion yes. World...no!.My name is Bret, I will change settings to show this. You see it is simple....who straps bombs on and kills innocent people? Not Jews. Who tried to take over my country (Trinidad) ? Not Jews. Do you see where this is going or must I continue?

Desperate rhetoric will never replace facts, Mr Poru.The Israelis neither enslaved nor robbed Palestinian. Hamas, on the other hand, has been using its on peope to further its agenda.

You seem to be losing raja-poo … boo hoo hoo on you poo!

what are you in, tzatz, the 4th grade? Time to go in timeout in the corner.

When Arabs were powerfull, they attacked jewish cities and occupied them Now Jews are powerfull and they are killing you. But they had to wait 1000 years to get revenge. Question is not who is right or wrong? Question is, with modern warfare instruments, would Palestine be able to wait for 1000 years?

And Muslims are no saint. They have been most vindictive attackers in middle ages. Whereever they went, they brought only distruction. So stop pleading for kids like your predecessors haven't killed one.

According to your view, I guess another hundred years and the Arabs will be picking off Israelis with there precision weaponry, sitting back with their tea.

I dont think another 100 years will do it. Maybe 500 years and you guys should be able to do it. Lets face it, despite all the oil money, Arabs can make a good automobile, so i dont expect them to be able to make missiles.

It's a pity that the Economist didn't add the number of people killed during this period in Syria and other Arab counties

Just wanted to point out that South America, although nice, is not a country.

"Israel is doing to innocents of palestine exactly what nazis did to innocent jews. "

No they are not. You may want to read up on the Nazis, their plans and practices, and WWII in general before making statements like that.

Otherwise, Israel was established after the British gave up on their mandate in Palestine, and a partition plan was conceived by a special UN committee.

Michael: Half right. No, the Israelis have not pursued a deliberate policy of racial extermination against the Palestinians. However, what they have done is pursue a "lebensraum" policy of territorial expansionism and usurpation of water rights to the detriment of the indigenous population and in defiance of international law. If you have any doubts about the latter, then do look up the BBC TV documentary researched, written and presented by Lord Paddy Ashdown, former leader of the British Liberal Democrats and UN High Representative to Bosnia-Hercegovina.

He was calmly analytical, factual and entirely convincing about how Palestinian land rights are routinely denied in the West Bank and how US funded ultra-Zionist groups have systematically bought up and expropriated land and buildings to drive out the indigenous population. It could not have been clearer.

I'll let you 2 Brits fight it out. Good luck Michael …

@HH79..this is nothing like the Nazis and Jews. Absolutely nothing. Denying it will not change the facts. You do not help the Palestinian cause by uttering such crap.Are the Palestinians treated fairly? I say NO! Are they helping their plight by denying Israels right to exist? No! Are they treated as the Jews were treated by the Nazis? NO!

You?

Yes, do wake up and smell the blood. I say war! War on Palestine and any of their supporters until their will to fight is totally crushed. Better that than nuclear annihilation for the region. The Islamists deserve no better than death...they are a stain on the human condition.

Funny. Very funny. Some Nordic gentlemen used to say the same about your entire nation, if you can call it that.

An interesting and rather typical post-facto attempted justification for Israeli political extremism and military excess.

I will put to you some of the questions that I have posted elsewhere on this blog. Who was it who, pursuing a "divide and rule" policy with respect to the Palestinians, funded and helped promote Hamas in the beginning? Answer: the State of Israel. Who was it who insisted upon, before agreeing to a "partner for peace" (remember the expression?) insisted upon elections within the Palestinian populace? Answer: the State of Israel. Who was it, when it became clear that Hamas had won in the Gaza Strip, decided to ignore the result and declare that they would not talk with the winner? Answer: the State of Israel. Who is it that has pursued a siege, otherwise an act of war, against the Gaza Strip, its elected government and population since the Palestinian elections? Answer: the State of Israel.

As this is possibly rather too much for you to understand so I will point it out to you: you cannot have it both ways! Israel has been in a state of war against the Hamas controlled Gaza Strip since the Palestinian elections. Even though I deplore, condemn and despise the methods used by the Islamist loony-tunes in Gaza (because they are utterly self-defeating), it is nevertheless the right of any people to defend themselves from what has been an armed siege and state of war imposed by the State of Israel.

As my parents met in Palestine during the remaining days of the extant League of Nations Mandate that Britain (regrettably) inherited after 1945, I have long been well versed in how the State of Israel was founded, the methods employed, the personalities etc. Consequently, I find it ironic that you should be whining about Gilad Sharit's capture and detention by the Palestinians. The Hagganah, Stern Gang and Irgun had no problem during the Mandate with capturing British soldiers, stringing them up from trees and hanging them before planting booby traps on their bodies to cause further casualties. Zionists have used terrorism since the struggle for the foundation of the State of Israel and terrorism is in the very DNA of Zionists to this day.

Amongst the reading, listening and looking that I have done over the decades, one of the most revealing - and shocking - books is Avi Shlaim's "The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World" (ISBN: 0-14-028870-8; first published 2000). As a warts and all expose from within the Israeli mindset of the doctrines of hard-line Zionism since the 1920s and how this has informed and structured Israeli policy and conduct to this day, it is seminal. But for the fact that it might cause you to evaluate what you think and why, should try reading it. You have a lot to learn.

You said: "As my parents met in Palestine …"

So … thanks for the truth! So you do have some 'skin' in the fight! But …

What did they say about the Arab/Muslims? What are your recollections of their dealings with the Arab/Muslims?

The Arab/Muslims were carrying on a Civil War against the Jews between Nov 1947 to May 1948!

The Arab/Muslims were carrying out a Civil War against the Jews in the years 1936-1939!

Let me know …

British put a mess in their colonies??? I beg your pardon...Canada? Australia? No mess there! Even my country Trinidad, the mess only started after the British left.

The virulence and personal offensiveness of your postings again speaks volumes for the Zionist mindset. Your repeat references to skin colour indicates a seriously skewered racist mindset that helps explain the "second class citizen" status demonstrated by the Israeli state towards its Arab ethnic minority - and that's before the "untermensch" mindset towards the Palestinians - or the "Filistanis" as you call them.

My parents, during their time in Palestine, encountered violence and hostility overwhelmingly from the Zionist terrorist groups. It was their first hand experience that the use of violence came overwhelmingly from your fellow Zionists. So no change there then.

OK … I got it … they came after 1940 and left in 1948 … this was the period when the British IMPOSED the closure of immigration to Jews … the British were deemed 'the enemy' and hostilities began against British Policy … and British Mandate … meaning your parents … oops

So … they have their memories … good for them

I have to tell you about your comment "Your repeat references to skin colour" is directed at raja-poo … HE'S THE ONE WHO BEGAN REFERRING TO 'WHITE' AMERICANS AND 'WHITE ISRAELIS' … and I then 'went off' on his comments! I have no prejudice to anyone of colour … except for racist comments like raja-poo began … so your comments are OFF BASE and should be seen to be as well …

Your view of the Arab/Israeli Conflict is skewed by their 'experience' … 'dems da breaks' … Your comments about Arab/Israelis being '2nd Class' is UNTRUE … they have equality before the law … but just like everywhere on Planet Earth … there is individual prejudice … IT'S NOT INSTITUTIONAL … as far as the WB & Gaza … THEY ARE NOT CITIZENS … THEY ARE ENEMY ALIENS UNDER MILITARY OCCUPATION … THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS CITIZENS … WHEN THERE'S AN END OF CONFLICT PEACE AGREEMENT … NOT BEFORE …