You’ve heard TSA say how most passengers support the use of our Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT). Well, this time you don’t have to hear it from us. You can read a recent public poll that was conducted by CBS News where 4 in 5 polled support TSA’s use of AIT.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
224 comments:
1 – 200 of 224 Newer› Newest»Why aren't you commenting on John Tyner? This blog has official lost any shred of legitimacy it had. Also, this comment will most likely be censored.
You can't be serous! So many people are outraged and angry about what they've had to experience and what they've read about... and yet the T.S.A. puts this up on its official blog instead of addressing the issues?
I think this proves that this blog is nothing more than propaganda.
And, btw, all this shows is that 4 out of 5 people are a little behind the other 20% in understanding the egregious abuses that are taking place at TSA.
This poll is absolute fantasy. You don't have to be a statistician to look at the data in this poll and see it's bunk. Why not ask people if they approve of naked scans+radiation or Government approved sexual assault? Because that's your choice.
Opt Out America. Push back while we still can.
Nice try. You aren't going to convince us to forget our rational fears, just because you wave the herd mentality under our nose.
4/5 Americans are idiots.
You do realize that you can get a poll to say anything right? I mean honestly, this is little more reassuring than saying, "Trust us, we are the government."
Gee, it's too bad we don't have some sort of document that clearly establishes that we have rights that the state may not violate despite popular opinion...
Also, the wording of the poll was so vague as to render it meaningless. I think you'd find a large majority of Americans would support invading Canada if you asked them "Do you support the full utilization of American military resources to secure the territories to our north?"
And how many of those people have been on an airplane in the past ten years, and seen their rights as passengers gradually erode? It roughly corresponds with the share of Americans who don't have passports. I don't think that's a coincidence.
A two question poll.
How scientific!
Might want to include this CBS Poll too
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/national/main7056945.shtml
LOL!
And as has been pointed out by many, including Nate Silver, that poll is worthless. Most people who were polled don't fly at all, and have never seen a scanner. What are the numbers, Bob, among frequent flyers?
Just because people support something, doesn't make it right. What percentage of the population thought slavery was okay, or that women shouldn't be able to vote?
Just for the record just because the public is in favor does not make it right. In the past, the public has many times supported ideas such as women not getting the to vote and slavery that were wrong. This is one of them. I only wish people knew what they are giving up for a sense of security.
Is this poll indicative of the way TSA makes policy decisions?
Had enough, Curtis?
This issue must be going viral for you to cite this study. How about letting us all know what your posts are running for and against as the public gains awairness of the pornagraphic images of children and women. Please do let us know the stats over the last 48 hours.
So what?
This CBS page shows 79% surveyed on 2010-11-15 choose, "Enough with the scans and pat-downs! They're an invasion of civil liberties."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/national/main7056945.shtml
You know Bob,
If I was in charge of the TSA, and wanted to portray the organization as professional, I certainly wouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon of such a questionable poll.
The poll made no attempt to determine the traveling history of the respondents or find out their knowledge of the equipment.
You're reaching, Bob, you're really reaching with this one.
Our use of ATI is a victory for terrorists and fear mongers and kills our American spirit and national character. The TSA would have us be the home of the fearful and cowering.
Intellectual honesty required, Bob. Post polls from other sites as well, not just the ones that pony to the TSA party line.
I was initially concerned that the questions may have been leading. They were not; rather, they were content-free.
The flying public may be more or less in favor than the general public, but we do not know how many of us fliers the sample included.
What we do know is that for all the promise of AIT machines, the DHS and TSA bureaucracy has handled the roll-out with dishonesty and a lack of common sense.
Just yesterday the DHS secretary made the following risible assertion: "The imaging technology that we use cannot store, export, print or transmit images."
We are adults. We can understand that the units are capable of storing images but that the feature is turned off in deployed units. We would have much more confidence if we were told that the unit transmits securely to the assigned viewer. The secretary's repetition of known inaccuracies only spurs our suspicion that the AIT system installations may not be as secure as they should be.
This person does not support them.
Hmmm, I wonder why you're only linking to one survey that does not say how many times a year (if ever) these people surveyed go through security.
If 80% support, you sure are getting a lot of backlash from the other 20%. Oh, right. The other 20% are the ones who actually fly and have a clue what they're talking about.
OPT OUT! NOV. 24th AND EVERY OTHER DAY!
a poll of 1000 people is not a accurate nor scientific survey. I bet if the questions and methodology on this survey were published, it would show this was a biased poll from the word go.
Hey curtis what about the reuters polls that was 97% against.
I bet this subject has lots of posts that never show because they dont taut the company line.
Its okay curtis you and your employer will be explaining your actions to the OIG and the senate committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation tomorrow soon enough.
Looks like you have a full scale TSA revolt on your hands Bob. Dont you love seeing a country that values liberty and freedom over fear and tyranny. God bless America!
That poll is ridiculous and does not identify whether or not respondents know what a "full body scan" really entails.
I'd like a poll that shows a picture taken from a scanner and then ask whether they approve.
"This poll of 1,137 adults was taken Nov. 7-10, before a rash of negative stories about the screening. The margin of error was 3 percent."
I'm curious to know how many people who took this poll have had to experience the enhanced pat down. I've had thirty people in my office fly in the last two weeks. Every single one was disturbed by the experience they had with the TSA. At least twenty said they will no longer fly unless absolutely necessary (i.e. overseas). Two women felt absolutely humiliated and molested - they were both sent through the body scanner, then felt up (and that's exactly how they describe it - being felt up). This was through Boston Logan, terminal B. Both women reported having a male TSA agent doing the pat down and were told that it would "take too long to get a female agent."
I'd be curious to see what the poll reads after the holidays, once a larger group of Americans gets to experience this new horror of travel.
I would like to see the methodology used behind the survey. My first question is pretty obvious: how many of the sample are frequent fliers (e.g., fly greater than 4 times a year)? Can we break down the responses based on each cohort (frequent vs. casual fliers)?
I'm OK with you having the x-ray spex for people who fail WTMD and don't want a patdown.
However I don't think the CBS poll questions clearly ask about the choice of the new genital imaging and advanced groping choice versus the old familiar WTMD.
Bob, how can you seriously believe that such a poll is reflective of how the flying public feels about the TSA and WBI?
Did you even read the demographics? They chose 1,137 people at random and NEVER ASKED IF THEY HAD FLOWN RECENTLY OR EVEN EVER.
Since less than 40% of the population of our country flies at least once a year, this poll about which you are crowing is totally meaningless.
Let's have CBS go to an airport and do a poll, why don't we? Then we might get some relevant numbers.
So, Bobby, don't hang you hat on this poll as again, the results are meaningless.
From one poll - 4 out of 5. Depends on what it is. In Israel they do not need to do this - it's body language and other things that gives the wanna be terrorist away.
I'm more interested in what experts have to say than in public opinion polls:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/11/fda-sidesteps-safety-concerns-over-tsa-body-scanners.ars
Whatever. Most other polls out there shows the complete opposite. Way to pick out one of the only polls that supports your side of things.
http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/travelers-rate-tsa-as-%E2%80%9Cterrible%E2%80%9D-in-new-poll-%E2%80%9Cthey-treat-us-like-we-are-criminals%E2%80%9D/
and
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
What we really know is 920 people admit they support the scanners.
Why am I not shocked in the least to see the clear polling bias and unscientific (and technically inaccurate) question asked to support this conclusion?
I'm sure you could get the exact opposite response if when "random" telephone polling viewers of MSNBC, you asked the just as technically accurate question of "Some airports are now using Millimeter Wave or Backscatter body imaging machines which will take a picture of your body as if you were naked, though it is difficult to determine exactly who you are and the TSA promises they can't save these pictures. Also, the Backscatter devices emit potentially dangerous x-ray radiation, though at low levels that could only affect those with high risk to radiation exposure, such as cancer patients, pregnant women or pilots. Do you think these body imaging devices should or should not be used at airports?"
5 out of 5 Americans don't know how to read polling data correctly, and 5 out of 5 interested parties can manipulate the terminology in polls to receive a favorable response.
The poll was of all Americans, not necessarily fliers. We don't know how the question was framed. Those polled may not know of the radiation from the scans. They may still believe that the scans don't show any details of sensitive body areas.
And they certainly didn't know that 35,000 of the scans (which were supposed to be unsaved) were going to be leaked.
quick question about the Tyner case.
It is alleged that he broke the law by leaving the security area. what law is that? I mean i want a US code citation.
I will be blogging about this at patterico's pontifications, and this is your chance to clear things up.
First off, the poll didn't show AIT images. $5 says results would have been very different if it did. Even with that missing, 15% saying NO is a large number of people. Drop AIT and "enhanced" pat downs. The $ is already lost. Fighting the public destroys your image. It's not a good way to win hearts and minds.
Oh, good God. You have, in less than a decade, managed to make the TSA even more despised by the general public than the IRS. By far. That in itself should tell you something.
P.S. Don't Touch My Junk!
Come on, find a poll that explains the risk before they ask the question. This is like asking a poll question, "should the government give you money for free?" OF COURSE THE ANSWER WILL BE THAT WAY! Of course, if you started off by listing the impacts of that policy -- for example, debt burdening your children and their descendants for years to come, then you'll get a more balanced view.
So, I'll believe a poll when CBS says, "It is unknown whether full-body X-ray scanners are harmful to the body; they use X-ray radiation which is known to cause cancer and/or reproductive dysfunction. There have been no airplane security threats detected by the scanners in the trials and early implementations around the country. The X-ray scanners increase security wait time over traditional metal detectors by 30%. Should they be used in airports?"
*THEN* you'll get the right answer.
Before you make too much of this poll, you might want to read this article by Nate Silver, the master of polling: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/15/the-full-body-backlash/
This is pure tripe. When was the last time these people (polled by CBS) set foot on a plane? Last year? Last decade? Unless it was in the last 60 days, it's an uninformed response based on an antiquated model.
I'm confident that four out of five folks haven't had the THRILL of a TSA agent putting their hands all over their crotch or watching a three-year-old get felt up. Why not do a real poll and ask frequent fliers what they think?
Nate Silver pretty much demolished polls like this one over at fivethirtyeight.com.
Send better propagandists, TSA.
I'd like to see what questions they asked.
I suspect that people were not a) given the proper background for the question; b) told they would be seen naked by others when using the scanner; c) told about the unknown effects of the radiation used to do the imaging; d) told there were other, more effective means of performing the same task.
The question asked was probably something like: If there was a way to prevent [insert scary terrorist story #96 here], would you be in favor or using this technology?"
Don't be fooled, the "S" in TSA does not stand for Security.
Half of those polled probably never fly, much less do so frequently.
Of course most people support it, when the TSA lies about the details. We all know that the images can and are saved and printed, yet the official line is still that they are deleted immediately.
All this poll proves is that the TSA is effective at spreading lies.
Huh!!! How about linking to all the articles and op-ed pieces across the country that highlight the issues and chagrin Americans have with your processes and scanners?
So, now it's standard practice to sue citizens who protest your illegal searches?
seems to me..."blogger bob". sold his soul to the devil. You should re-think your career choices "bob". someday you will realize your on the wrong side and by then. it might be too late.
You trust polls from a cable network.. Seriously.
You should take clues from Isrealis : http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
So they polled 1,137 americans. Any of those americans actually been through AIT or a an enhanced patdown?
Funny...according to the pdf of the full survey available on the cbs site linked here, the question about using full body scanners failed to mention how revealing the images are, the fact that there is no data on long term effects of the x-rays, and that the machines are operated by untrained TSA employees, while similar technology in hospitals has to be operated by radiology technicians who have completed extensive training, passed certification exams, and who enroll in 24 hours of continuing education credit each year.
The IDEA of full body x-ray scanners IN THEORY might not seem problematic to a lot of people. Tell them those three bits of information (naked pictures, unknown long term effects, and utterly un-qualified operators) and I bet that approval number would go way down.
I am really not sure who those 4 out of 5 people where - people at the TSA??? I just traveled last week and can assure you that 5 out of 5 people who where in our group where appalled by these machines and the subsequent humiliating pat down when we refused to enter the machine. I will not be traveling via air any more, as long as these inane policies are in place - especially since they do nothing for security, and pose a radiation risk. It's not worth it for the illusion of security.
How can you say the people viewing out naked pictures are professional? Your professional people made fun of a guy that got scanned until he became unhinged and attacked his tormentor. And from what I read it was one or your supervisors who began to torment him. I'm sure nothing happened to them. If I were the guy I'd sue you for sexual harrasment. Unwanted comments and such. Any other place all those people would have been fired.
Yes I really want your professional tso's looking at my picture. I'm sure they don't compare notes at the end of the day. Why should I let you see me naked when a cop can't even do it without probable cause.
My late father was in the defense intellgenc ageny and the army for 28 years and I'm sure he would be shocked at what is going on now. I was in the miliary too defending this country and I don't recognize it anymore. I'm sad to see that this is happening to our freedom and the country is turning into an armed camp.
You should exchange your blue shirt for brown shirts
"Should airports use full-body x-ray machines?"
That's it? That's the question? And you present it as "support" for your radiation machines? Please.
Airports should use radiation machines compared to what? Aggressive crotch groping? Cavity searches?
This is poll is flawed big time, Mr. Bob. Your spin on the results is grossly misleading.
Instead, how about asking people which they prefer: metal detectors or radiation machines (which frequently flag people with nothing more than creased clothing for the full-on crotch grope)?
Umm, yeah, that probably wouldn't turn out so well.
From the TSA website.
Q. What has TSA done to protect my privacy?
A. TSA has implemented strict measures to protect passenger privacy, which is ensured through the anonymity of the image. A remotely located officer views the image and does not see the passenger, and the officer assisting the passenger cannot view the image. The image cannot be stored, transmitted or printed, and is deleted immediately once viewed. Additionally, there is a privacy algorithm applied to blur the image.
With the recent release of these images - is this statement still accurate? Will you update to reflect that these images are not indeed deleted but saved, transferable and availiable on the Internet?
So what you're saying is 20% of people either aren't sure, or don't want to be scanned.
it's funny that the TSA website states a person can refuse the screening process at any time - yet the TSA agent says otherwise. what is correct? also - please explain what this 11,000 fine is? i do not plan to be radiated or groped while travelling next month.
If the scanners can't store or transmit images, does that mean the results of a scan could never be used as evidence in a criminal case?
If someone is caught trying to get a gun or knife through a scanning machine, I would think the image from his/her scan would be useful evidence in a trial. Obviously, there would be several witnesses saying he had the weapon, but still...
Seems odd the machines wouldn't be able to output a scan result in a case like that.
This is great news. It means that 1 out of every 5 travellers still has brains left.
Honestly, I know that you guys are doing your job but this excessive focus on airline security is meaningless because people who want to do harm will find other ways.
This is plain STUPID TSA. linking to the only poll that supports you. It's disingenuous. Shame on you.
How about a poll that is relatively current? This poll is from 2009 prior to wide deployment of the AITs. And prior to the debunking of DHS's claim that images are not stored. That, as has been proven by the release of the 'unstorable' stored images, was an outright lie to the flying public.
Blogger Bob, substantial portions of the US population think Elvis is alive and that aliens have done scientific investigations on humans. A poll like this is not very useful.
In particular, there are several reasons I'm less than happy with the promotion of this poll as a justification of the new scanning tech and pat-down procedures.
The poll was a poll of random-dialed Americans, with no indication of if those individuals are travelers. Informal polling of people who have traveled by air within the past year comes up with substantially different numbers.
People who don't travel by air and who have not experienced current procedures are not really well equipped to have an opinion on either older or newer procedures.
Since 9/11 the security procedures have been entirely effective at stopping workable bombs and weapons from making it aboard commercial aircraft. Even "failures" such as the much-touted underwear bomber were designs and attempts which didn't work, would not have worked, and could not have substantially damaged an airplane. Like the times square van "bomb" is this is the best the terrorists can do, bring them on.
The privacy invasion of having an unknown TSA agent viewing the backscatter or millimeter radar image, the further privacy invasion of the enhanced pat-down procedure, provide such a marginal improvement in airplane security that I don't understand the point.
Even without those additions, the process of checking through TSA security is painful at best and humiliating at worst. To get through security this past weekend, after arriving at the airport silly early, waiting in a long line, and getting up to the security point, I had to remove my laptop from my backpack, my shoes, wrist-watch, glasses, belt, pens, coins, billfold, hat, jacket, hold up my pants with my hand so they didn't fall down, and have a TSA agent tell me that I had to let go of my pants and put my hands up over my head. At which point, despite my best efforts to enhance my posture, my pants would not hold their position at my waist. That's why I WEAR a belt.
(I admit, I'm fat, and that since I don't really have a waist, without a belt, my pants fall off. I'm hardly alone.)
Every year my "Never mind I'll drive" circle has gotten larger. It's up to about 800 miles now. At some point, the diversion of people from air travel to driving results in MORE deaths from the higher death rate per passenger mile than the occasional loss of an aircraft to terrorists would kill. I suspect we've actually already crossed that line.
This makes me very sad.
TSA is cherry-picking polls that support its policies; there are plenty of other polls about the same subject that contradict the CBS poll. If TSA wants the real pulse of the people regarding the use of airport scanners, then they should look at the posted comments at the end of any on-line article about the TSA whether it be local, state, or national-level MSM-sites. I think TSA would be surprised at the opinions posted, by average Americans rather than by anonymous poll responders. One can manipulate poll results however they see fit, especially if theres a hidden agenda.
Personally, until Janet Napolitano or John Pistole are willing to publicly go through a Full-body Scanner or the Opt-out Option, I will remain suspicious of these so-called 'security techniques'. The problem with the brass at TSA is that they have a "Do as I say, and not as I do...OR ELSE" mentality when dealing with the general American public, and these same people are completely oblivious to it. Sooner or later, TSA will cross the fine-line, and suffer a avoidable backlash from the same public they are charged with protecting--but are instead unjustly persecuting.
The new procedures are more emotionally stressful than the old procedures. They may be more secure than the previous procedures, but that doesn't by itself convince me that they're the right thing to do.
Every year, as TSA has made the process of flying less pleasant, the radius that I'm willing to drive increases. It's up over 700 miles now, and I know that I am far from alone.
At some point the increased loss of life from the higher death rate per passenger mile of cars will over-reach the number who might die from something that could sneak through the pre-October-2010 security but not through the post procedures.
I suspect from casual conversations with fellow travelers that his crossover has already taken place.
Who did they poll? The TSA?
I don't think you understand statistics very well. 20% of people upset about something this serious is still a pretty damn high number. If airlines' business goes down by 20%, that's pretty severe. If 20% of people on airplanes are unhappy and perhaps moved to panic attacks by TSA's new procedures, that's going to have serious implications for security in airports. Also, it's worth noting that 1 in 5 is close to the number of people in the United States who've experienced sexual assault -- if you're doing things that could potentially trigger 20% of your passengers due to their past traumatic experiences, I'm sorry, but that's simply a bad idea and NOT in the best interests of national security. I don't understand why the TSA can't learn from the security systems in place in Israel, which are far less invasive yet more effective. TSA has been told this time and time again, yet they continue to ignore it.
Also, when the poll was conducted, did the pollsters mention that the scans often AREN'T deleted? I wouldn't be surprised at all if people were answering these questions without having the full story. The answers might have been quite different had respondents known that the scans aren't as private as has been claimed.
TSA, why don't you add your own poll to your website and encourage people to vote?
Now that the public can see for themselves and experience firsthand the invasiveness of both the full-body x-ray machines AND the full body pat downs, they are NOT happy! This is a complete violation of our 4th Amendment rights.
In case you don't know about those rights, go read about the 4th amendment on wikipedia (http://bit.ly/aLe5Nk). It defines "search" for you and gives numerous Supreme Court rulings that make it quite clear that our 4th amendment rights are being violated by the TSA.
I fully do not expect my comments to be approved after moderation by the invasive TSA, but I want someone over there, even if it is just their webmaster, to know, as an American citizen, I am AGAINST this invasion of my privacy and my private parts! Period!
Here's another poll for you, Bob.
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
The only reason they want the full body scanners instead is because of the sexual abuse they would have to submit to otherwise.
You realize you are breaking dozens of laws by sexually abusing people thought naked photographs and rape through your "pat downs", right?
Since Secretary Napalitano supports the use of the strip search machines. Why did she opt out at the press event when they asked for volunteers to go use them?
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. But in this case, you can replace 'statistics' with 'polls'.
All I have to say is HIP HIP HOORAY to Senior Management, for the unwavering support of their officers!!!!YEA
Other polls show otherwise.
Perhaps a properly designed and conducted scientific survey conducted by the well respected University of Michigan Institute for Social Research might shed a more unbiased light on this.
Even better if it were not funded by DHS, perhaps the Congressional Budget Office could commission such as study as part of an overall budget decision making process when it sharpens its budget cutting axe to bring the federal budget under control.
In other news, 4 in 5 people in this country almost never fly...
The TSA is spinning, spinning desperately....
Polls can be manipulated. One such way is the particular way the questions are worded. The link at the bottom of the article promises "Read the Complete Poll", but only two of the 32 (or more) questions are shown. This is...interesting, because the other 30(+) questions can have a huge effect on the answer to this one.
The wording of this particular question is suspicious to me, as well. "Do you think these new x-ray machines should or should not be used in airports?" This questions says the machines are "new" (which they aren't). Why point out their newness, unless it was relevant? (Like if you were trying to ask 'are you afraid of new technology?')
It also specifically asked if "these...machines" should be "used in airports", not whether they should be used AT ALL.
Again, the phrasing of the question can influence the answer, as can the attitude of the poller, and the questions asked before the one in question.
I'd really like to see the results of the following poll (posters here feel free to answer in your post):
1) Do you feel comfortable being seen naked by strangers?
2) Do you feel comfortable being touched in private areas by strangers?
I have a feeling that the results will differ significantly from the CBS poll.
From the CBS site: "This poll was conducted among a random sample of 1,137 adults nationwide, interviewed by telephone November 7-10, 2010. Phone numbers were dialed from RDD samples of both standard land-lines and cell phones."
Bah.
The poll was a sample of random Americans, most of which probably don't fly. And therefore meaningless.
Let's see a poll where the sample is random Americans who have taken a flight in the last 3 months.
That is outstanding, considering every other poll I have seen showed 70-90%+ as being against these scans and enhanced "pat downs"
try again
A high number of people supported slavery. What's your point? Naked searches and/or groping by government employees is a violation of our rights. The TSA should not be contributing to terrorism.
I refuse to fly domestically because of the TSA. I can't wait to leave the country.
And a lot of us will not be flying until these procedures are stopped.
The economy and airlines are on the edge already and it will not take much to financially bring this to a stop
Reuters poll of 72,000 people concluded 96% will change planes to avoid naked body scanners and grope downs.
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
But the majority of the polls out there reflect the exact opposite, but that doesn't further the agenda of the TSA, so they are ignored.
How convenient.. Tell us Bob, how many of the people that responded fly more than once or twice a year? How many of them are aware of the risks of AIT?
Polls are funny things Bob...here is one from Reuters that says that 90% of people are going to change their travel plans to avoid TSA.
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
The CBS poll in question does not inform the person that these "Full body X-rays" create naked images of the individual detailed enough to tell whether a traveler is circumcised.
Without that knowledge a person cannot accurately decide how great an invasion of privacy these new scanners are.
Hmm. Consumerist has an article on this same story, and a poll attached to it.
http://consumerist.com/2010/11/poll-americans-deeply-in-love-with-full-body-scanners.html
So far the results:
Do you approve of full body scanners?
Yes! 7.09% (183 votes)
No! 86.32% (2,228 votes)
No matter what poll options you include, I'm still going to complain in the comments. 6.59% (170 votes)
Flashback: Feds saved over 35,000 nude scans from just one Florida courthouse
In light of flaring controversy over the Transportation Security Administration's enhanced pat-downs and nude body scan imaging systems, officials have continued to stress that detailed photographs of passengers' anatomy are not saved and do not get passed around.
But, that's not true in all cases. An attorney for the US Marshals admitted in August that over 35,000 images from a body scanner in an Orlando, Florida courthouse were recorded and stored.
Tech blog Gizmodo published 100 of the images on Tuesday, obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request, noting that marshals had "mismanaged" the machine. The photos are not of a graphic nature as they were taken using a less advanced scanning method than what's generally employed in airports.
The admission was first made in a letter by Marshal Service attorney William Bordley, in response to a lawsuit by the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC).
Continued: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/flashback-feds-saved-35000-nude-scans-florida-courthouse/
If that poll is accurate that means 45 million Americans don't support the scanners. Regardless of who might be ok with it, body scanners and enchanced pat-downs are an invasive abuse of power.
The poll is not real. I think that the poll gave people the impression that the scanner was the old one they are used to. The online poll has a large majority against. People overwhelmingly HATE the choice of a strip search or a grope.
Hmmm - ya know what's cool about polls?
You can always find one to say whatever you want to say depending on how you ask the questions and who you ask.
Any comment on the poll in the link below.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/national/main7056945.shtml
It is also from CBS News. Which is ironically the same source you cite.
The only question is "What do you think about about the new invasive airport security screenings and all the hoopla surrounding them?"
So far 80% of the people have answered..
"Enough with the scans and pat-downs! They're an invasion of civil liberties"
So - this could tell us a few things.
One of the polls is wrong.
OR
People are in general, ok with the idea of using these machines when needed (the poll you love made no mention of running everyone through them and patting down those that refuse)
BUT
Even though they are ok with the machines being used sometimes, they really, really, really don't like the way you are doing it.
Which do you think it is?
Wow! I never knew how much fun polls were. Why don't you show some of these..
Poll: Air travelers “more confused than ever” about TSA rules
http://www.elliott.org/blog/poll-air-travelers-more-confused-than-ever-about-tsa-rules/
Travelers rate TSA as “terrible” in new poll: “They treat us like we are criminals”
http://www.consumertraveler.com/today/travelers-rate-tsa-as-%E2%80%9Cterrible%E2%80%9D-in-new-poll-%E2%80%9Cthey-treat-us-like-we-are-criminals%E2%80%9D/
Poll: Travelers dislike TSA as much as IRS
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2007-12-20-tsa-survey_N.htm
Ok the last one is from 07. But the rest or recent. As for the 07 one - think they like you more or less than the IRS now?
Funny thing though - the poll was conducted BEFORE most American were informed of what was going on with the pat downs and scanning - November 7 through 10th.
A more recent poll is showing that Americans, once informed of all the facts are now voicing great concerns about the injustices TSA is inflicting on people travelling in the US.
You should take down this post, as it is an ill representation of the facts.
Based on my anecdotal experience at BWI recently this statistic seems to reflect the reality.
Naked body scanners may be dangerous: scientists
WASHINGTON — US scientists warned Friday that the full-body, graphic-image X-ray scanners that are being used to screen passengers and airline crews at airports around the country may be unsafe.
"They say the risk is minimal, but statistically someone is going to get skin cancer from these X-rays," Dr Michael Love, who runs an X-ray lab at the department of biophysics and biophysical chemistry at Johns Hopkins University school of medicine, told AFP.
"No exposure to X-ray is considered beneficial. We know X-rays are hazardous but we have a situation at the airports where people are so eager to fly that they will risk their lives in this manner," he said
Continued here: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/body-scanners-dangerous-scientists/
I wonder how many air travelers would be in favor of the x-ray scanners if they knew that it is highly unlikely that the panty bomber would have been discovered by the scanner. I also wonder how many air travelers would be in favor of the x-ray scanners if they knew that some scientists have disputed TSA's statement that they are safe.
Considering the effects of x-ray are cumulative TSA cannot categorically state the scanners are safe for everyone.
Moreover, considering there have been no long term tests of MMW scanners for repeated exposure, and that the FDA has not certified these scanners as safe, TSA cannot state these scanners are safe.
So what?
How many people in 1955 though separate but equal was just fine? The liberty of the individual should not be determined by the tyranny of the majority.
Just wondering what the polling criteria is for these two polls. Of course I would rather go through the AIT then be sexually abused by the pat-down.
Only 39% of people in the US believe in evolution. What's your point?
I read the poll, and I am curious as to how the responses would change if the pollsters explicitly detailed the extent to which full body x-ray images show nudity, genitalia, etc. I think that most Americans think of X-rays in the sense of the kind that you get when you break a bone, showing a skeleton? Certainly before two days ago I had no idea what the images from AIT looked like. Seeing the images certainly changed what I thought about this procedure.
Is this a joke?
How about this CBS News poll: Do New TSA Airport Screens Go Too Far? So far, 80% say "Enough with the scans and pat-downs! They're an invasion of civil liberties."
Or this USA Today Poll: Travelers dislike TSA as much as IRS.
Nationalizing airport security has worked out so well hasn't it?
Defund and disband the TSA now!
CBS News reports, on the same day, that the results of the poll cited by the TSA might not be reliable writing "Those numbers could be skewed because one of the plethora of online opponents to the new scanning procedures may have asked readers to go to the site and vote." In fact, another CBS poll on the same day which has unquestioned reliability shows that 79%, in fact, say the "New TSA airport screens go Too Far."
If I implemented a new system for a customer, and one fifth of my user base didn't support the system, I'd think I had a problem to solve.
Mark
qui custodiet ipsos custodes
In grade school, an 81 is a B-. The TSA is proud of that grade? I hope not.
4 out of 5 people in America like eating copious amounts of cheese, too. That doesn't mean it's good for us.
Nice poll. I note that the poll was a random telephone sample.
Why didn't they ask travelers instead of random people on the phone?
This is the question that 81% of 1137 respondents from November 7th to November 10th responded "should" to:
Some airports are now using "full-body" digital x-ray machines to electronically screen passengers in airport security lines. Do you think these new x-ray machines should or should not be used at airports?
Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/politics/main7057902.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
What would be interesting is to compare the results of the polling data, collected between November 7-10, 2010 with the results of asking the same question, today. I think you'd see a dramatic shift in public opinion. I'm sure the shift will be even greater after Thanksgiving weekend.
While I believe that the sample size was adequate, at least to ensure an RSE of ±3% at a p-value of .5, I would like to see greater detail of the demographic breakdown than simply political self-identification, including age, gender and frequency of travel by airline.
There is also an inherent flaw in Random Digit Dialing (RDD) polling: a non-reponse rate of greater than 50%, which introduces a significant self-selection bias. Furthermore, RDD relies on the respondent to furnish all demographic data, without any potential to verify the accuracy of the demographic responses.
CBS omits the overall no-answer/no-response rate, so it's impossible to know how many respondents were discarded from the final survey.
Regardless, why is the TSA trumpeting 3rd-party opinion research data on its public affairs blog? How does this inform the traveling public about security practices? Would the TSA provide equal coverage of an opinion poll in which fewer than half of the respondents agreed with TSA policies and practices?
[This is the first attempt at submitting this on-topic comment.]
8 out of 10 non-flyers think that Body scanners and pat-downs are a good idea. ASK THE ACTUAL FLYING PUBLIC what they think. Then ask them again after they're experienced it or watched it on video. Different answers I'm sure.
Profiling and explosive sniffing dogs are the answer! Get serious about where our security efforts are directed. Leave grandma alone!
So a CBS poll validates security decisions? Seems like bad policy.
That's interesting. 78% in the CNN poll said you'd "gone too far".
The poll says that four out of five Americans support the use of “‘full-body’ digital x-ray machines to electronically screen passengers.”
It’s an antiseptic description that strangely emphasizes computing. (X-rays are neither digital nor electronic, though the data the x-ray machines collect is digital and its processing is done with electronics.) The question doesn’t capture people’s feelings about images of their own denuded bodies being observed by a government official as a condition of travel. And, of course, it doesn’t capture feelings about the intimate pat-down alternative.
Scoffing to Reuters poll 96% of people are against them.
Can we see what questions were used in the poll?
Why does this poll show the opposite?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/15/national/main7056945.shtml?tag=channelMore;pop
4 out of 5 have likely never encountered them, either... so I don't know that you can say the American public is in love with them quite yet.
Maybe that's because 4 out of 5 people don't know that X-rays can cause cancer and damage DNA. The TSA has consistently minimized the risks to human health of these full body X-Rays, but the truth is it can have bad effects on some people who are at a higher risk for cancer or have compromised immune systems.
Would those be the same 4 in 5 who make at most 2 roundtrip flights per year? The actual poll doesn't distinguish between people who fly and those who do not - in fact it doesn't even ask if the person has taken a flight.
Informal polls of frequent fliers - occurring now on sites like FlyerTalk and several travel communities - shows strong opposition to both the AIT scanning implementations and the enhanced pat down implementations.
While most of us anticipate TSA will not and cannot listen to the body of business travelers, the general consensus is that the airlines will. It's surprising after all these years that TSA has not matured sufficiently to recognize how frequent flyers perceive the recurring operational and procedural errors - and turns a deaf ear to the public at the same time.
Consumerist poll now says:
Do you approve of full body scanners?
Yes! 6.18% (385 votes)
No! 87.67% (5,462 votes)
No matter what poll options you include, I'm still going to complain in the comments. 6.15% (383 votes)
The CBS poll was done with a sample of just "1,137" people. The Consumerist poll already has 5 times that many people. Hmm. I wonder which'll be more accurate?
I fly on a weekly basis out of a variety of large airports all over the United States. Most passengers (like myself) are very happy that TSA has placed body scanners at most airports. Using a walk through metal detector or hand wanding people is old technology, a thing of the past and does NOT detect explosive material. I, as well as ALL of my coworkers at Boeing would feel a lot safer if TSA eliminated all the walk through metal detectors. EVERY PASSENGER SHOULD BE FORCED TO EITHER SUMMIT TO A BODY SCAN OR A FULL BODY PAT-DOWN. None of this "I just want to walk through the metal detector" nonsense!
Most people would not be ok if the TSA were more forthcoming about health risks involved in these scanners, brought up by doctors and scientists from around the country.
I am very worried about my parents, who are in their late 70s. They are planning to come visit me overseas from the U.S., and since my mother has had breast cancer, and my father has had skin cancer, as per recommendations from UC,SF scientists, their doctor recommends that they do not go through the back scatter scanner due to their age and health history. I am extremely concerned that they will be subjected to a punitive, possibly particularly rude and brutal invasive body search as a result. My mother already suffers from nervous stomach and other symptoms related to flying... and I can only imagine what my dad (who has a bad heart) is going to say to someone grabbing his penis. Aaaargh! Even without this rather horrific treatment, I was worried about the rigors of such a long trip for them...
Is there any chance that a letter from their doctor will convince TSA agents to not "punish" them for refusing the scan? (I do know that it's not supposed to be overtly cruel, but apparently practice is different than theory!) I am so worried I literally start crying when I think about this.
The poll sampled 1,137 random individuals nation-wide and it failed to indicate whether any of them had ever passed through TSA security measures to experience AIT or pat-downs.
This is a country of roughly 300 million people. A poll of 1,137 simply has no real value.
1 in 5 DO NOT support Full-Body Airport Scanners. I'm not flying anymore. I hope they don't start pulling these gestapo tactics at interstate borders and court houses.
Wow. WOW! What a LIE this post is! I encourage everyone to read the actual poll. The poll question asks whether the airports should "use full-body x-ray scanners", NOT backscatter or advanced imaging technology!
The poll also did not present any option other than "yes" or "no". So if the person thought that full-body "x rays" should be used ONLY when a significant suspicion of threat is discovered, that person's answer was simply recorded as a "yes".
It's a horribly conceived and terribly executed poll and the blatant twist on the results by TSA is even more horrifying to me. The American people should not stand for this type of abuse of freedom.
CBS? Really? You're going to use CBS to "accurately" say that most Americans don't find objection to body scanning procedures in order to fly? Considering how low their ratings are, I think you should reconsider using them as a source of valid, accurate information as to how Americans truly feel.
My concerns are the lies that TSA says claiming these images aren't saved when these images have been leaked all over the internet, proving there is no anonymity whatsoever with this.
My concerns are that TSA is so willing to put small children, mothers, fathers, and the elderly through this but can't do a pat down on certain individuals because of their religious beliefs, this kind of hypocrisy is absolutely inexcuseable and a violation of my rights since I would have to be subjected to a pat down if I chose to fly and yet other individuals can claim exemptions because of their beliefs. This is a violation that borders on Constitutionality and I can only hope someone will sue TSA into Oblivion for such vast indiscrepancies and blatant catering to one group of individuals over the other, not to mention the flagrant lies of scans not being saved images.
Really? 4 out of 5? Please read at the bottom of the article that the poll was only taken from a sampling of 1,137 people. The more people you sample, the more accurate the results. Let's direct our attention to this Reuter's poll that to date has been taken from a sample of 72,601 people.
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
96% say: I will make alternate travel plans to avoid intrusive security scans and patdowns
Total fabrication of statistics.
Really, Bob? Of all ways to attempt to defend this violation of our civil rights, this is the one you choose?
Never mind that every other poll says the exact opposite. And we have no idea how the question in this survey was asked or introduced.
You guys are playing a losing battle and it really is just a matter of time before sanity returns to our travels.
You'll understand if we are somewhat skeptical of the poll's accuracy.
Our constitution, in large part, was designed to protect us from the "opinion" (in some cases, tyranny) of the majority. Just because a poll shows support for a form of "protective" oppression, doesn't mean it is right. A large percentage of the German people supported Adolf Hitler and the perceived safety and strength he offered. If the TSA really wanted to protect Americans, they would be better off devoting their resources to random screenings on American highways for drunk drivers. In 2009, almost 12,000 of us died in alcohol related traffic accidents. How many died in terrorist related activity on aircraft? Isn't it time for a little uncommon sense? Risks are part of life. They are normal. Maybe we should focus on the real dangers and serious risks we face.
Use any scanner you want. I'm not flying, and it's because of draconian security theater like this.
The survey design is flawed. The survey was taken November 7-10, and by phone.
First, the sample isn't truly random by virtue of you are only getting response from people who happened to answer the phone.
Second, the survey doesn't make any distinction between the attitudes of those who have been to the airport and subjected to the screening vs. those who haven't.
In other words, it's one thing to have an opinion about something when the issue has little to no impact on your life compared to having an opinion directly impacts you.
In 1857, 7 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices ruled slavery was legal.
In the subsequent military conflict, an estimated 600,000 - 700,000 citizens lost their lives.
So what exactly is your point? If ten out of ten TSA employees believe constitutional protections don't apply to TSA activities, does that make it so?
TSA has over reached with the new search policies. The BEST course of action would be an admission of the over reach and a solemn promise not to do it again.
Instead the administrator and his minions continue to push a flawed policy in the hopes the 'noise' will just go away.
There is simply no 'reasonable' justification for a government sponsored virtual strip search and/or sexual groping of millions of innocent human beings.
TSA is wrong. The policy is immoral, unethical, and illegal. It needs to be stopped and stopped now.
Correction: 4 in 5 prefer naked images over being sexually assaulted.
You don't exactly strengthen your argument by pointing to a poll that only sampled 1,137 people. That's not exactly a proper sample size to determine how everyone feels about the full-body scanners.
Yes, and 4 out of 5 Americans want to sell their constitutional rights. That doesn't prove your point--popularity contests don't change the meaning of the constitution.
It's interesting that the poll does not report the exact question asked. I wonder how many of the respondents were aware that "X-ray scanners" make a very clear nude image of you for inspection by TSA officers. That information was publicized mostly in the last 3 days, but the poll was apparently carried out 5-7 days ago.
Could the blogger please comment on that? Do you know how many respondents were aware of the full meaning of x-ray scanners and was that the only description used?
Perhaps if the poll included the full name of the scanner technology it would be more accurate? After all "x-ray scanner" does not describe the back scattering technology and that it amounts to a virtual strip search.
This blog post is very short on details about the poll. Please provide more detail so I can consider if the poll has any validity.
Thanks.
I am glad you brought up the topic of polls about Americans' views on the scanners. More on the CBS poll - CBS reports at the link you provided that it polled 1,137 adults.
In statistics, higher sample sizes are considered more accurate. Just a little over one thousand people isn't a huge sample size. So it would be worthwhile to compare to other polls.
Consumerist.com also did a poll - theres is about SEVEN TIMES larger, having asked (at the time of this writing) 7,653 people.
Their larger, and presumably more accurate, sample size yielded enormously different results, with (at the time of this writing), 87.44% of respondents (a total of 6,692 people) answering "NO" to the simple and straightforward question "Do you approve of full body scanners?".
So, we have two studies that have dramatically different results. One that asked 1,137 people, and one that asked about 7 times as many. Many, many more responded "no" in the Consumerist poll, than CBS even asked overall.
So let's bring in all sources of polls, for honesty's sake.
I do not support the full body scan as I have seen enough reports of it being misused to not trust anything TSA says.
I also will not submit to having my genitals 'frisked' by TSA.
Signed, An Average American
I would be very curious to see the same poll conducted with example images produced by a testbed scanner next to the poll, so potential flyers could see exactly what it is they're voting on. I'm not sure the general public is aware that this isn't just a new advanced metal detector. They hear "advanced imaging technology" and "backscatter x-ray" and to most people that just sounds like "tech babble that means I'm safer now"
CBS News? You mean the outfit that forges documents to create news? Well, I guess you get style points for finding a study, at least.
The word for the day is "credibility". Look it up. We'll wait.
Were those polled people who actually travel? Many people who do not travel are in favor of all kinds of security nonsense.
The scanners are bad enough. The groping is bad enough. Personally, I've opted out of the scanners in the past as my own little protest against your unconstitutional search. I'd prefer my children not go through the scanners but the scanner would be much less traumatic for them than the groping. However, now, even if you do go through the scanner, there is no guarantee you won't grope a person. I'm not flying with my children until I can be sure that none of you are going to be traumatizing them.
How conveniently you ignore the Reuters poll in which 96% (over 66,000 people) HATED the screening.
That would be 4 out of 5 TSA agents, correct?
... if you leave out the naked part. Or x-ray bit.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20101116/17225811903/81-of-americans-support-naked-airport-scans-if-you-leave-out-the-naked-part-in-asking-the-question.shtml
Yeah. 4 out of 5 support body scanners when you don't give them the full details about the scanners.
Here's another statistic - the majority of the house of representatives (310 to 118) favor not using the scanners as a primary screening tool.
Hey, I have an idea. How about you allow an independent, scientific polling company poll people as they come through TSA's "security" theater. That way you'll only be getting the opinions of the people that are actually effected by your ridiculous fascist-state policies. And those are the only opinions that matter.
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
I have yet to talk to a single person that approves of the new, invasive security measures. Both the new scanners and what you call the "pat-down" (I would call it a disgusting invasion of our privacy) go too far. The American people will not stand for it.
Don't speak for everyone. I think the majority of people do support body scanners (they aren't here bellyaching like you). Believe it or not, this is not about YOU. This is about the security of airline travelers and the prevention of more terrorist acts that could devastate our economy. You do have a choice, you can choose another mode of transportation. TSA-keep doing what is right for the many and not worry about the few.
Forget the 4th Amendment and any concept of reasonableness.
This picture really tells the story. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Naked+scanners+%20airports+dangerous+scientists/3819955/story.html
The article also disagrees with TSA's claims of the safety of these machines.
So the battle lines are drawn and TSA is ready to take no prisoners, WE (American travelers) are the enemy. That's our government in action. And Janet we know our roles. Unlike you we believe in upholding the Constitution
What is most insulting is that our government seems to continue to think that the American public is ignorant and uninformed. While our representatives say they know, unlike us, what is best for us and the secretary of homeland security tells us we need to "know our roles" is it any wonder that Americans no longer trust their government in general and specifically the Obama Administration? Now to use an unreliable poll and one by an unreliable source to support this unreasonable position of TSA is nothing more than a sign of true desperation.
TSA:
Go back and read the comments posted on that report. 4 of 5? Yeah, right? You guys are blind!
Nice that you are citing a poll conducted in July of 2010 prior to the announcement of enhanced screening/groping and the most recent incident.
I'd be curious to see if these numbers hold up today.
Hey Blogger Bob.
A WFTV (Orlando) poll found that 78 percent of those polled thought the TSA process was an invasion of privacy. Doesn't sound like 4 out of 5 approve to me. Care to explain?
J. Avalokitesvera
This blog is pure TSA propaganda and fantasy. Call your local airport to have their contacts terminated.
Why don't you talk about how Sorros and Chertoff is making a bundle off this scanner technology? Your'e little brown-shirts are being trained to dehumanize the public like Jews going into the camps - all for the profit of the big boys at the top.
---
“Mr. Chertoff should not be allowed to abuse the trust the public has placed in him as a former public servant to privately gain from the sale of full-body scanners,’’ opined Kate Hanni, founder of FlyersRights.org, which opposes use of the scanners.
Chertoff’s group represents Rapiscan, a California based firm “which until recently was the only company qualified to sell full-body scan machines to the TSA.” Last summer, “TSA purchased 150 machines from Rapiscan with $25 million in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act funds.”
... George Soros, the billionaire funder of the country’s liberal political infrastructure, owns 11,300 shares of OSI Systems Inc., the company that owns Rapiscan. Not surprisingly, OSI’s stock has appreciated considerably over the course of the year.
What a surprise, you sent a press release to CBS and they reported exactly what you wanted them to. How about figuring out reasonable and effective security measures instead of just trotting out your dog and pony shows that are increasingly a disgusting invasion of personal privacy and liberty.
QFT
Gee, it's too bad we don't have some sort of document that clearly establishes that we have rights that the state may not violate despite popular opinion...
It's not okay with me. When you get to the point of trading freedom for security, you've lost.
It's more than the terrorists could hope for.
why doesn't the TSA put up an official poll here? a real one that actually shows a sample image, describes the technology and radiation risk, and asks people how they feel about being subject to it? I'd respect a poll like that, not the one from CBS that was clearly phrased to slant the answers.
I will not fly until the scanners and the TSA feelers go! My family will have to do without me and my vacations will be where I can drive.
Bob, why does TSA continue to lump together backscatter and millimeter-wave systems? They pose very different levels of concern to our health. And presumably the different machines have different retention methods. Stop lumping them together.
Most importantly, backscatter uses ionizing radiation and there's some significant evidence these x-ray levels are very dangerous. Yes, the total dosage is ok, as DHS says, but the total dosing rules are for an entire body.
But backscatter is concentrated in and under the skin, where the dose is much higher than it should be in such a cancer-prone area. And areas just under the skin are where the very common/deadly cancers (breast, testicle) come about...
This is precisely why the Pilots Association has advised their members to avoid backscatter machines.
The problems with this poll are well documented. But even so - take it at face value. Say it's only 20% of flyers that are against this. If the TSA faces a 20% opt out rate, that's enough to scuttle AIT. The enhanced pat down exists for precisely this reason - to make opting out more painful, to keep the percentage down.
This is not true. You are moderating the posts. In fact, most of America is against this charade and joke.
Fact- the scanners are not catching what they need to.
Fact- it's against the fourth ammendment to th constitution.
Fact- the radiation is NOT safe, and can cause skin cancer in the long run.
Fact- the TSA is reactive and proactive. The terrorists will just stick the explosives in their body cavities. Are we going to do strip searches and cavity searches next?
Question: In what country are these scanners made??
The CBS poll did not look at only people who actually went through the procedure. Who keeps an eye on TSA? Would love to know where the sign up sheet is for citizens to sign up for a TSA oversight board...hmmm don't see that happening anytime soon.
run this poll after the holiday.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/17/national/main7063414.shtml
http://consumerist.com/2010/11/you-might-be-in-serious-for-refusing-to-be-tsa-screened.html
Check out these polls.
That CBS poll only had around a thousand people. The standard deviation of error is extremely high. Compared to the consumerist poll which has as of now "Total Votes: 11,144" 58.5% "final straw"
A poll of just over 1100 people, before the brouhaha started in earnest? That's 1100 people who didn't have all the info. Your poll fails.
Here's a poll that states the exact opposite of the CBS poll... 4 out of 5 think the Body Scanners are an invasion of privacy!
http://www.nydailynews.com/nydn/poll.do?pollCmsUniqueId=20101022_a_closer_look_at_body_scanners&pollTitle=A+closer+look+at+body+scanners&pollQuestion=Do+you+approve+of+the+introduction+of+body+scanners+at+the+nation's+airports%3F&voteExpirationDate=&option_labels=Yes!+They+will+improve+security.;No!+They're+an+invasion+of+privacy!;I'm+not+sure.&20101022_a_closer_look_at_body_scanners=2&vote=vote
Funny, I saw that to. Then I clicked on the "vote" thing below. The numbers were almost exactly the opposite..hmmm....After CBS OBVIOUSLY bent to government strong arm tactics and printed that drivel I assure you I will NEVER watch that channel again..
The CBS poll was conducted before John Tyner revealed just how invasive and capricious the body scan and groping search can be. I'll bet a poll conducted today would have inverted results.
I do not care how many people supposedly support these procedures. You have no right to endanger my life because someone does not understand the risks
Wake up people! Do not let the TSA give you cancer!
I prefer this to Scanners. Looks fun. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16643843
I 100% support the advanced imaging technology. I don't know why everyone is being dramatic over the whole ordeal. Flying is not a right it's a priveledge get over it people. Did everyone forget 9-11?!?! over 3,000 people died because we didn't even have airport security well we did but it really didn't do much. If AIT is what we need to keep are country safe so be it.
Let's assume for a moment that the poll accurately reflects the opinion of intelligent, fully-informed Americans. Let's also agree with Bob's implication that 80% of Americans believe that they trust the TSA to provide effective security, so they're entirely willing to sacrifice whatever privacy and human dignity the TSA decides is necessary. And also that 80% of Americans will unhesitatingly enter the scanner and freeze in the correct "mugging" position when the TSO bellows the command into their ears.
That still means 20% of Americans do not believe that the tradeoff is worthwhile. By crowing about this poll, Bob apparently wants is to believe this amounts to a small minority of "losers" who are best ignored. But it still amounts to millions of people who refuse to become the good little sheep that the TSA would like everyone to be.
That means the TSA still has a lot of work to do. Those millions of non-Believers are too numerous to ignore or dismiss. And they're most likely not going to read the poll, decide they've been wrong all along about the TSA, and just give up and join the herd of sheep. But I suppose Bob feels obligated to try to make that happen.
Really? CBS! Do you seriously belive them? Please, get a poll done by a reputable POLLING company. This whole thing is about fear and money. Why do we not use the same techniques that El Al uses and hire ex-military to screen along with using dogs? I would trust them over who the TSA currently has. But,Heaven forebid we should insult those that would do us harm by doing anything that makes any common sense. Do the people who work on the planes and load the planes have to go through this also? My bet is not.
are you seriously believing this poll. there is absolutely NO way this can remotely be correct. any child would realize that there is an issue with the data that would relay such a message. who audited and what validity would this have in any way.
Here's the question CBS asked (according to them):
"Some airports are now using "full-body" digital x-ray machines to electronically screen passengers in airport security lines. Do you think these new x-ray machines should or should not be used at airports?"
I don't think the question means to be biased, but it's also information-free. Unless the respondent knows something about the machines, he or she won't understand what they really are. Give it a couple of months, as people keep seeing images in the media of "naked" passengers and hearing more reports about the health risks. As information (and personal experiences) trickle down, I bet this poll number will change.
"1,137 adults nationwide, interviewed by telephone November 7-10, 2010. "
1,100 adults only interviewed via telephone makes for a very small sample of the population. Without further information, it's hard to tell whether this survey is a good representation of American opinion. Likewise, it was conducted prior to much of the controversy regarding the TSA's new digital strip search machines.
Everyone needs to fight against the new TSA procedures. We have a 4th Amendment to protect us against such abuses. Until security at airports is left to the free market we'll continue to see obsolete and obtrusive means to deal with the security threats of yesterday.
It's very misleading to tout this poll as evidence of public support. The wording of the question is vague, and whether or not you care about the opinions of people who don't actually fly, many people who don't fly, certainly prior to the media coverage, would not have been informed what the scanners were or why someone wouldn't want them. I hope that when a new poll is released showing a drop in support, that you post that on your blog as well.
I am a statistician, and I think it is bunk. The sample size though is typical of opinion polling though.
Also people may not like them so much when they realize it doesn't guarantee them an out from the invasive patdown procedure.
the poll was taken before the recent SAN incident and most of the respondents were once in 10 years flyers... also the wording was extremely vague.
It's worth posting again here to spread the news on THIS poll, of over 70,000 people: http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
Please repost as you will and make sure THIS poll gets as much attention as the one TSA says proves their case.
Really, 4 in 5? Did you check out THIS poll that your own blog is quoting from?
http://blogs.reuters.com/ask/2010/11/12/are-new-security-screenings-affecting-your-decision-to-fly/
96% of people voted that "I will make alternate travel plans to avoid intrusive security scans and patdowns".
Get it straight before you use propaganda.
The answer is so simple. Just put up signs in each airport declaring them to be a "No Bomb Zone"
Some context for this poll would be nice. This is a snapshot of one place and time. I wonder how small that number of people opposing full-body scanners would have been a year ago. How about two years ago? I wonder how big it will be 6-10 months from now?
Before you can draw any conclusions from polling data, you must get some sense of the trend. I'm betting the trend is moving sharply against this kind of invasive and illegal techniques. Let's revisit this poll question in 6 months and see how convincing this argument is then.
I cant believe people.You know when you fly there are metal detectors, scanners, pat downs. You CHOOSE to fly.No one at the airport or the TSA tells you to fly.If you do not agree with the rules you can go by car, train or bus.NO one forces you to fly. I for one have no problem with it. I would run to an airplane with properly screened people.I think they should have a plane of those who are not screened and let the complainers fly on that one.Have you forgotten the outrage when you heard about 911? What if that underwear bomb went off.All of you people would be the first to point a finger! It is quite simple and I cant believe no one thought of it. If you dont like an airline you dont buy a ticket from them right? If you dont like the rules of flying DONT FLY! No one forces you to buy a ticket, go to the airport, or get in line.If you dont agree with the scanners there is the pat down.It sounds to me like you all think you should make your own rules and have the luxury of someone else to blame when the worst happens.They offer options and YOU opt out of all of them.Do you think they will smile and say Have a night flight? I just dont understand why everyone is upset.You are there voluntarily.The problem is on you. I was molested as a child. Because of that I am sensitive to touch in cerain areas and become uncomfortable easily.I had a pat down and they went over areas so fast I didnt feel uncomfortable and trust me I would get upset if it did.They did not linger or cross the line. Why do I share this?Because you dont know how you sound.You are getting upset about something that is for your safety, that is not personal and is the same for everyone.I am upset people are calling it sexual assault.Until you have been sexually assaulted you have no idea, and no right to use that term casually.And I do not see this as that.Assault happens against your will and to your detriment. You are there by choice and this is for your protection to say nothing of the fact that even with my experiences I have yet to see this as the same thing.It is disrespectful and not for reasons you think.
As a military service member, I do my job to keep us safe. I'm appalled that I get to be seen nearly naked or groped...that is not a choice and that poll was worthless. I felt safer in an airport in Israel than I do in my own country and security was not this intrusive...that's very sad to me.
This is, in a way, like asking people if they believe we should have speed limits. Of course most people will say yes, until you tell them that the question really was, "Do you believe all speed limits should be 5 MPH?"
Similarly, a person could reasonably conclude - before all this press - that a "full-body x-ray" simply means you get a picture of a skeleton along with any metal/dense bits (i.e. weapons). Rephrase the question to, "Should airports use full-body x-ray machines which will create an image of travelers naked in order to better identify dangerous materials?", and then we might have a more meaningful poll.
Actually, the only thing the poll shows is that 4 out of 5 people surveyed haven't travelled recently. That sentiment may change radically after the Thanksgiving holiday.
With respect to Allen, 1,137 responses is a perfectly adequate sample to gauge national sentiment. The science of research has established, in fact, that 440 answers is adequate for any sized population so long as the sample is random and representative. Once you start breaking populations out of the sample, you need to increase the overall sample size to ensure each subset has adequate representation. Thus, if this poll were to separate frequent vs. non-frequent flyers, men vs. women, urban vs. suburban or any other groups, the sample size would need to increase accordingly. But to represent Americans at large, more than 1,000 responses will be accurate and adding tens or even hundreds of thousands more respondents will shift the numbers only within the margin of error.
My comments relate ONLY to sample size raised by Allen, not the validity of the question asked or whether population breakouts should have been ascertained.
The majority of Germans also supported the policies of Adolf Hitler. That didn't make him right. Let's remember that the TSA policies have nothing to do with what the majority wants-- they relate to what the constitution demands. And the constitution says that what the TSA is doing is illegal. I have complete confidence that Pistole and company will be shown to be breaking the law before long and we can stop using evidence from a CBS news survey.
TSA says and I quote "approx. 2 million Americans fly per day." 2 million geez that's a big number, so my question is out of those 2 million a day how many really needed to go through all of this extra screening? That's some statics I'd like to see.
Besides we all know TSA is grumpy enough, please give them more work so they can look even meaner when they yell at me to push my things through the belt or not to depending on the airport.
I think the next will be to make us walk nude through the scans.
TSA says and I quote "approx. 2 million Americans fly per day." 2 million geez that's a big number, so my question is out of those 2 million a day how many really needed to go through all of this extra screening? That's some statics I'd like to see.
Besides we all know TSA is grumpy enough, please give them more work so they can look even meaner when they yell at me to push my things through the belt or not to depending on the airport.
I think the next will be to make us walk nude through the scans.
Anonymous seems to be running this blog...with his/her thoughts. Does anyone know "WHY" TSA does what they do? If you remember 911 and people falling out of burning high rises and the Pentagon innocent and the Pennsylvania flight that attempted to fight for their lives.....you might wonder why TSA does what they do. New threats every day, bra bombs, underwear, liquids used with an ignition source, items placed within the anus..are all part of what these terrorists do. They will not stop until they show us that they are in charge. TSA will not stop until they can show them they are NOT in charge. We need to protect our families, friends, pilots and flight attendants. Whether it be the little old lady or the baby in the stroller...everyone will be checked to be sure an airplane will be safe in the sky. Anonymous.....it takes 4 oz of a certain explosive to blow a hole in the side of a plane. Please think before you write agin....
so the TSA has let pilots and flight crews opt-out, even though more passengers have been killed by crew (egypt air flt 990) than by either the shoe or underwear bombers. The real reson for this is that Mr. Chertoff's profits as Rapiscan's advocate, (The Chertoff Group), are not affected by the non-using pilots/crews. The scanners will not statistically keep anyone safer. Mr. Chertoff as head of homeland security created the scare, offered the solution; returned to private self-employment and now profits by selling the "solution" to the "problem". Anyone want to take bets that there is a rapiscan or chertoff group job waiting for Mr. Pistole or Ms. Napolitano?
Did you read the poll question? It provided zero explanation of any of the issues underlying the full body scans, in particular failing to mention anything about the kinds of images produced. Grasping at straws, Bob?
I bet that the majority of the people interviewed for this "survey" do not visit airports, have never flown before, and don't even own a passport.
That's because the vast majority of Americans don't fly on a regular basis. They fly maybe once a year at Thanksgiving or Christmas. They are approving in theory of something that they have never actually experienced. CBS should re-do that poll after the Thanksgiving holiday, when thousands and thousands of average Americans will fly and will experience the madness that business travelers have been experiencing.
i support it i love the scanners
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