***Update 4-13-2011 7:07 PM*** Welcome Drudge readers and anyone else who’s new to the TSA Blog. Seeing that many of you have never been here before, I wanted to provide links to a couple of posts we've written on pat-downs. They will give you a better idea of why pat-downs are used and when.
Also, please note that we’re receiving many more comments than usual thanks to the Drudge link, so please bear with us as this is a moderated blog. Thanks! ***
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A video taken of one of our officers patting down a six year-old has attracted quite a bit of attention. Some folks are asking if the proper procedures were followed. Yes. TSA has reviewed the incident and the security officer in the video followed the current standard operating procedures.
With that said, you may have read recently that our Administrator is looking into ways to move past the cookie cutter approach to screening. Recognizing that terrorists are willing to manipulate societal norms to evade detection, TSA has been actively assessing less invasive screening methods for low-risk populations, such as younger passengers, while still maintaining a high level of security.
Also, you may have heard in the video that someone references a drug test.TSA does not test for drugs. It's possible those individuals are referring to the explosive trace detection test that can detect the smallest traces of explosives.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
If you’d like to comment on an unrelated topic you can do so in our Off Topic Comments post. You can also view our blog post archives or search our blog to find a related topic to comment in. If you have a travel related issue or question that needs an immediate answer, you can contact a Customer Support Manager at the airport you traveled, or will be traveling through by using Talk to TSA.
773 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 773 of 773Blogger Bob,
There are no distortions when it comes to the TSA. Let's be clear that Ms. Drexel and her family spoke to the media about the TSA incident and their child because they did not believe the TSA would take meaningful action to change current procedurs without an outcry from the public. To date, the TSA has not modified their procedures based on feedback from the taxpayers who you (TSA) are supposed to be protecting.
As for your officers who take things personnally, too bad. Law-abiding taxpaying Americans do not have choices when they pass through airport checkpoints. If your officers are uncomfortable patting down same-sex women, men and children and the negative incidents that are sure to occur....FIND ANOTHER JOB.
Selena Drexel said...
What happened to Anna cannot compared to those types of tragedies. She was "groped" in the English definition: to search blindly or uncertainly with the hands. In my opinion, that's what happened as the video shows.
April 15, 2011 11:45 AM
..........................
Yes Blogger Bob, Mrs. Drexel certainly clarifies what happened.
TSA GROPED her 6 year daughter.
"TSORon said.........
TSO’s are not LEO’s, please don’t go there."
Yes, we know this but it appears that your personnel don't, please remind them.
"Administrative Searches do not require a search warrant."
Yes, we know this too. The definition reads as long as the search is no more intrusive than what is necessary. See the problem here?
"TSA’s job is not to “catch” terrorists."
Given recent incidences we can understand why you would finally admit this fact. What we would like to know is what exactly is your job since we have always been told the TSA is the last line of defense against terrorism in the sky (although this appears to be the function of the passengers and air marshals.
"“Profiling” is against the law, and it’s useless in this environment anyway."
Yet you continue to use the SPOT program.
"Children have been getting pat-downs since airports began screening passengers in the 1970’s, and you just noticed it now? I sleep just fine thanks, how about you? If you are going to quote the 4th Amendment you might want to try and understand what it is telling you. “Disgusting” is what happened on 9/11, get some perspective."
I'm glad you mentioned the 4th Amendment I did go back and read it along with the rest of that document and in mine and many others opinion you are still in violation.
"And on and on and on.
Anonymous asked ….
“"Pistole ... pointed out the pat-downs are not mandatory -- passengers receive them only if they opt out of a screening with advanced imaging technology."
Who's the liar now?”
------------------
You are, but you already knew that. Look up the word “can” (I can’t believe I have to explain that to someone, geez)."
Actually you would be considering that a TSO can require it any time before during or after going through the check point with no more cause than they can. So please at least try and be completely truthful.
We still haven't forgotten about YOUR searching of SIX years olds!!! Booooooooo !!
A lot of 6 year old bomber attacking us lately? The fact is the TSA is a joke, the "red flags" they look for are things that normal people do, not terrorist.
The TSA's funding needs to be cut to ZERO!
TSORon wrote: “"Pistole ... pointed out the pat-downs are not mandatory -- passengers receive them only if they opt out of a screening with advanced imaging technology."
Who's the liar now?”
------------------
You are, but you already knew that. Look up the word “can” (I can’t believe I have to explain that to someone, geez).
"Passengers receive them (pat-downs) only if they opt out of a screening with advanced imaging technology."
That's the lie, right there. People who agree to the AIT are still subject to a "pat-down" at the whim of the TSA employees.
Ms. Drexel wrote:
"I'd very much like to see a more collaborative effort between the critics and the TSA/DHS to develop procedures and policies that would be endorsed by parents, advocates for other special populations, as well as those who promote adherence to the US Constitution."
So would we all, Ms. Drexel. However, you would need to ask an amputee just how well the TSA's procedures and policies, allegedly developed after consultation with Walter Reed and our soldiers who have lost limbs in the war, is going.
Sadly this will have to go all the way to the Supreme Court before it is resolved.
Screen shot made.
OH NOES!!!!
MUJAHIDIN FERRETS ON A PLANE!!!
Ferrets have been hidden inside peoples bodies.
What is the TSA doing about this!!!
I find it interesting that my brief comment was not posted. I shall try again.
If this is the modified pat-down for children 12 and under, how is the unmodified pat-down (for those of us 13+ years old) legal?
What the TSA is doing is outrageous. This is not common sense security, it's cartoonish paranoia. I'd rather take my chances with the terrorists than submit my child to this.
Anonymous said...Well After being hospitalized, I am back on the road and the same old tacks....
--------------------
Sorry to hear about your experience. Please provide more details to me by emailing tsablog@dhs.gov, or contacting a customer support manager at the airport you traveled through at http://www.tsa.gov/talktotsa
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
I want to believe that the initial goals of Department of Homeland Security and the TSA agencies are to keep Americans safe.
__________________
I believe the goals of the people who run DHS are to 1) keep themselves in well-paid government positions and 2) funnel money to friends & colleagues who manufacture and sell body scanning devices -- you know, the ones they are buying to the tune of millions of dollars.
I also believe they will engage in any amount of fear-mongering and deception needed to achieve both ends.
I don't feel any safer with TSA in our airports and I feel 100% ripped off as a taxpayer.
Blogger Bob said...
Ms. Drexel,
Thanks so much for stopping by the blog to clarify things for us and our readers. We completely understand how things can get distorted. Once the media reports on something, a story can take on a life of its own. Our officers read these distorted accounts and comments and take them personally...
****************************
Well, Bob, I do hope your "officers" take these accounts and comments personally.
I have been patted down multiple times, most of which were as professional as could be expected. However a few, including a TSO at ELP who firmly jammed the side of his hand 4 times deep up into my crotch until I winced with pain, were completely unacceptable.
Each time I told him it was not appropriate, and each time he threatened me with a thinly veiled "are you telling me that you want to stop the screening process?" and performed the next thrust even firmer. He followed up by grinning all the way back to his position near the x-ray belt.
I completely believe this was in retaliation for opting out, and am still furious about that experience.
For every one of these screening reports that makes it into the media, there are many others that are not publicized.
I hope you get defunded in the budget debate.
You have done nothing more but LOWER THE STANDARD for Civil rights in this country.
Now a 6 year old Girl will know that she no longer has rights in the USA and will no longer expect a free country.
My family will be driving 12 hours to Florida this year so I can spare my 5 year old daughter from this degradation.
Please link to the legal decision that exempts Airline passengers from 4th Amendment protections.
Looking at the history of writs of assistance, it seems the 4th was written EXACTLY to prevent what the TSA id doing.
Drexel
The cooperation would be the disolution of the TSA and a return to Private security with the standards set by the market.
MAYBE some sniffer dogs in the airports under control of the DOT.
The TSA is a failed experiment.
The provisions on knives, firearms and anything else that could be used as a personal weapon is useless in a country that has already learned NEVER to let a plane be hijacked. So that threat is now 0
The only remaining threat is of explosives and that can be detected with dogs less intrusively and more effectively than any technology that lines the pockets of campaign contributors
Blogger Bob said...
Anonymous said...Well After being hospitalized, I am back on the road and the same old tacks....
--------------------
Sorry to hear about your experience. Please provide more details to me by emailing tsablog@dhs.gov, or contacting a customer support manager at the airport you traveled through at http://www.tsa.gov/talktotsa
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
April 16, 2011 2:46 PM
.................
Bob, are you responding to one of the post your censored?
You know that censorship by the government is clearly illegal and is a civil rights violations.
Of course being legal is of little concern to TSA is it?
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/JohnMica-TransportationSecurityAdministration/2011/04/16/id/393095
Rep. John Mica says the Transportation Security Administration has become a huge bureaucracy that has “spun out of control” and cries out for reform.
“We’re shaking down little old ladies. We’re shaking down military, patting down children who don’t pose a risk, for goodness sakes. We should pick people out there who can make a better determination of who to go after, and we should have the information. It should be embedded in the ticket.
“These systems have been around. I’ve seen them tested and actually operating in other countries. Instead they create a huge 63,000-person army with 3,700 administrators in Washington, D.C., making on average of $105,000 apiece. The system absolutely cries out for reform.”
Mica said in December he tested the new technology for naked body scanners and in January tested new pat-down procedures “and I can tell you the results were dismal. Neither of these are effective.
“I was an advocate of using behavior [to screen passengers], not profiling by race or other ethnic measures.
“TSA has hired 3,300 additional people at a quarter of a billion dollars cost. The results that have been disclosed show that has been a failure too.”
.........more at the link.......
Botton line according to Congressman Mica is that TSA is a complete and total failure and is wasting many billions of taxpayer dollars for nothing!
Administrative searches like administrative subponeas have no force of law.
Those who enforce 'administrative' searches on the general public are criminals.
I find it interesting how blogger bob and tsoron or west try to play good-cop/bad-cop with the commenters on this blog. And even more interesting that it never works.
You people are the real terrorists here. Terrorizing little girls. I threw up in my mouth after watching this disgusting video. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Anonymous said...
"I am concerned about where those TSA gloves have been before being put down MY pants. Do they change gloves between patdowns? They should, that's gross. I think they should have to put on clean gloves before feeling me."
The gloves aren't to protect you, they are there to protect the TSA agent. The TSA doesn't actually care what nasty things they spread from passenger to passenger.
Asked about the incident on "Fox News Sunday," Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said, "I wouldn't want my granddaughter treated like that."
In 9 years TSA has NEVER caught a terrorist. Even the shoe bomber was caught by a passenger and flight attendant. Could it be TSA is incompetent as shown by the 6 year old girl groping? Terrorists have won when we allow government groping of children under the lame notion that this somehow makes us safer.
Oh well timothy of the oklahoma bombing was white, the man who flew into the irs building is white. those were terriorist actions and are considered terriorist.and to abbolish TSA ok lets get rid of it.then what when attacks happen again.you all will "the government needs to do something"and start all over again with same exact deal. And yes the patdowns are different.
"Recognizing that terrorists are willing to manipulate societal norms to evade detection, TSA has been actively assessing less invasive screening methods for low-risk populations, such as younger passengers, while still maintaining a high level of security."
WHAT TERRORISTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!!?!?!??? HAVE YOU EVEN CAUGHT ANY? abolish the tsa.
They were just following procedure! For the good of the nation! For the greater good! Jawohl!
I have twice had a simple one line post deleted. It read: "Take your hands out of our pants". Why is this censored? It is an exact description of what you seem to find acceptable to do to anyone, including 6-year-olds.
Bob, please do some volunteer work once you get the chance.
I don't know why you choose to continue this madness and depravity, but doing some genuine good could help you see the depths of the darkness you're in.
Bob, Can you please clarify what caused the child to receive the pat down in the first place. Isn't it TSA policy to have children and parents avoid the body scanner so they don't become separated?
I am sick to death of reading the same old quotes by Ben Franklin, James Madison, and Thomas Jefferson. They might have meant something 200 years ago, but now they are just quotes found under a Snapple cap. The TSA is a quasi-government creation and like a hundred other government programs before them, it is here to stay. It will continue to grow and expand and get ever-larger budgets. No amount of random internet blogging, ranting and hand-wringing will change a darn thing. They are here for good so you had better get used to it. And why does everyone keep referring to the 4th amendment? The patriot act gutted that thing 10 years ago. Where was all of your outrage then?
Bob, it appears that this time the TSA really stepped in it. Yes, I am as surprised as you are actually. A few years ago there was a similar video, but in that one the girl was kicking and screaming instead of silently crying the way she was in this video. I thought for sure that would set the public off. On the other hand, it was before the electronic strip search and (allegedly not) punitive gropings for those who opt out.
It is hard to predict exactly what will stir the public up. It is like a giant game of Jenga. You never known which piece, when pulled from the tower, will cause it to collapse. You only know that it eventually will. You've pulled out the pieces known as 4th amendment, 5th amendment, 1st amendment, and 6th amendment (yes, even that one). You've pulled out a basic respect for our human dignity, and you've pulled out sexual modesty. Those are all removed from the TSA's Jenga game. Now you've pulled out sexual modesty for minors, and the tower is quivering badly.
Your agency now has a reputation for perversion, sexual impropriety, and borderline assault. That reputation will have to be dealt with before this groundswell of opposition causes congress to finally take firm action. Your agency has already angered congress by flouting the order to testify on the grounds that someone who didn't like the TSA would also be there. That is contempt of congress, and Pistole should have been arrested for it had congress any spine. Millions of angry constituents is called "spine."
I give you this advice freely, knowing you won't follow through on it.
Saying "proper procedures were followed" to your regular critics causes us to shake our heads, and even make an occasional wry joke. We also say "then the procedures are wrong", which you never listen to or report up the chain of command. We're used to your agency let orders and regulations replace thought, and given your hiring practices that may actually be a good thing at times. But there is really a need to clean house.
There are many areas that need cleaning, but I will confine my advice to only the appearance (and reality) of perversion within the TSA.
1. The TSA needs to fire that screener. Yes, procedures were followed. From your point of view she did nothing wrong. The public thinks otherwise. It is apparent to me that although what she did was very wrong, she is far from the worst that the TSA has working for them. But she is the one in the video, she is the one doing the assault. Yes, from the point of view of the TSA and that TSO there are no grounds for it - after all, she was just doing her job. But she needs to be made a sacrificial lamb to not only placate the public but to send a message to the rest of the work force. So if the files a wrongful termination lawsuit or a union grievance ... guess what, you can't sue the government without the government's permission to do so. That will go nowhere.
2. The TSA needs to scrap the more intensive physical searches, especially the punitive ones used on the opt-outs. It is time to restore some common sense to the friskings. Your agency doesn't have common sense, it has orders and regulations. The two are not the same. Sometimes the rules actually are wrong.
3. Eliminate the millimeter wave and backscatter x-ray machines, popularly known as "electronic strip search", "nude-o-scopes", or "porno-booths". The names given to your Advanced Imaging Technology indicate the public opinion of that technology, and repeatedly denying that there is anything improper about them only adds fuel to the fire raging against the TSA. Scrap it, or at least restore it to "secondary only" the way you promised when it was first rolled out. Of course we predicted that it wouldn't remain "secondary only", and we were right. Time to keep your promise.
4. When someone complains that some search was too frisky, don't say "we're looking in to it" and then later say "procedures were followed." Actually do something. As I wrote before, you don't need to post the results of individual cases here, but you do need to post "if action X happens, then consequence Y will happen" here to let us know that you actually are taking our complaints in to account. Yes, publish those rules. "If a TSO misbehaves in this way, he can expect this punishment." You really actually honestly need to get permission to publish that SSI regulation.
You need to take the comments of your critics, and instead of ignoring them, hand them to your boss. Seriously. The TSO can no longer use the Nuremberg defense, and the general public (with less experience with the TSA than your regular critics have) will only be outraged by it even more.
My niece will be flying for the first time this summer. I'm concerned for her and hope that the TSA changes it's disgusting ways before then.
Life before the TSA existed was so much better.
To be honest, the U.S. probably dosn't really need the TSA anyway. Just another way to grow the government and keep it's thumb on us.
One more thing. I can't believe that our tax dollars are actually paying somebody to blog about the TSA.
Our society gets weirder all the time.
BB said:
"Sorry to hear about your experience. Please provide more details to me by emailing tsablog@dhs.gov, or contacting a customer support manager at the airport you traveled through at http://www.tsa.gov/talktotsa
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team"
Yes, please do that. I have twice and have yet to receive a reply. On the other hand it has only been six months so the bureaucracy probably hasn't had time to react.
But do go to the site, assuming you have time to waste.
When will the government start protecting us from the TSA?
Anonymous said:
"Those of you who keep whining that the TSA had "not stopped/prevented a single terrorist attack since 9/11" really have no clue. Do you honestly think that the TSA is going to advertise on national television every time it stops something?"
Yes, I certainly do think they would publicize such an event. How do you propose that the TSA would keep the arrest, incarceration and, presumably, prosecution from the public?
Seriously, please think before you post.
Anonymous said:
"I find the suggestion that this is "molestation" or "sexual assault" to be totally offensive. They did a light, non-invasive pat down. That's not sexual assault."
Thanks for sharing your opinion but you must not have children. I do have children and absolutely consider it an assault, particularly since the child went through the AIT.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
No amount of perceived security justifies giving up our Fourth Amendment rights. Just because some of you out there want to be sheep and go along with whatever the government tells you doesn't mean you speak for me.
disgraceful
What security do we have when we do this to our own children?
Even the Secretary of Transportation admitted on live TV he wouldn't have his grandchildren treated that way.
Thanks to whoever took this video; cameras are the best weapon we have against this over-reaching government.
no excuse you offer will be sufficient to reduce the amount of rage felt now by the American public. I realize you're just a grunt and are unable to question or use your god given gift of reason and critical thinking but I hope the price of selling your soul, your integrity, and your authenticity was worth it.
Folks. Please for the love of god, realize that ridiculous hyperbole, exagerations, outright lies, and ALL CAPS do not help get your point across. Learn to put "I think" in front of things that are merely your opinion. By all means, disagree with patting down children, or whatever, but do so in an intelligent, logical, and resonable manner. Otherwise you just make yourself impossible to take seriously.
I can not understand how TSA or anyone else can just decide that its ok for them to violate my privacy and that of my family for NO CAUSE.
Who gave you the right to do that! TSA is doing more to harm this country and what it stands for than the terrorists ever could.
Those who give up essential liberty in order to obtain temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Ben Franklin
I think everyone is getting carried away with this pat down. I think the officer did exactly what she was supposed to do and it is not fair to that employee she is being smeared all over the place for doing her job. Sad to say it has come to this but if another tradgedy where to occur everyone would be yelling about more security. If I were a terrorist and I knew you would not pat my child or children down then heck I would take advantage and use them. I would not have a problem with this officer patting down my child because she was very calm and explained everything to her and her parents and made sure that they were in plain site the entire time. I am sure she does not enjoy it either but it is part of her job. Do you really think they would let a registered child molester take a job for airports where they would be likely to come in contact with children. Come on use your heads and stop complaining.
TSA is a disgusting WASTE of taxpayer dollars.
You protect NO ONE! You Harass EVERYONE!
However did this country get along without you in the past??
TSA pat down my 3 yr old a month ago because he touched his father's leg after his father had been selected for a pat-down. Imagine that, a toddler decided to touch his father! His father, my husband, was selected for pat-down because we have liquid medicine with us, with Rx label, to treat my son's chronic kidney condition. I was asked to leave the area while they pat down my child. I refused. I mean REALLY, a 3-yr old is a threat??? And how do I teach my child that sometimes it is OK to be fondled by a uniformed man?
another way to waste government money search a six yr old girl, did you search her parents? I would rather go to jail than let some one search my daughter "if I had one" you people are just crazy so did you find any drugs on her? how about her parents? i mean if you can justify searching a little girl does that put probable cause to search the parents? go usa if i had my choice tax dollars would shut you guys down i mean why dont you just search every body then every single one? would create lots more jobs and save the gov even more money
As the purpose of this blog according to your "Comment Policy" is:
"The purpose of this blog is to facilitate an ongoing dialogue on innovations in security, technology and the checkpoint screening process."
I would like to continue this dialog. It is obvious that the TSA viewed the girl as a threat to aviation. I as a traveling US citizen would like to know how many people would be killed or injured of the TSA stopped screening children.
If the DHS and TSA do not know the answer, then it is clear that they have not done the proper risk assessment needed to determine that this level of security is required. If they have done these studies, and the risk is great enough to warrant this level of screening then inform the population and you will have their support.
I want an ongoing and open dialogue. Do You?
Andrew
Are there no parents among the TSA acreeners? How is it possible that they are not even angrier than the passengers for being told to "Pat down" a 6 year old girl? I'm taking my 6 year old girl to Disney this summer and NOBODY better think that I will stand by passively while a stranger touches her.
In the rest of the world women received less security than men until this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_suicide_bomber
Children received less security until this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
In Iraq, a mentally challenged child was used as a suicide bomber.
In Pakistan, children can be purchased for use as suicide bombers: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/02/taliban-buying-children-to-serve-as-suicide-bomber/
Think this won't happen here? Think again.
If a group receives less security terrorists exploit that group. That's how they work.
I don't understand why children should receive less security than adults. Drugs and weapons are stashed on children all the time and they don't have the mental development to know that it is wrong, and behavior screening techniques don't work on children, especially if they don't know that they are doing anything unusual.
If the TSA finds a way to give children less screening, they should give the adults less screening too. The risk is the same.
RB said:
Botton line according to Congressman Mica is that TSA is a complete and total failure and is wasting many billions of taxpayer dollars for nothing!
Lets not forhet who contributes to Mica's campaign.... The top 3 security groups wanting to take over airport security.
Anonymous said...
RB said:
Botton line according to Congressman Mica is that TSA is a complete and total failure and is wasting many billions of taxpayer dollars for nothing!
Lets not forhet who contributes to Mica's campaign.... The top 3 security groups wanting to take over airport security.
April 20, 2011 3:19 PM
..............
Evidence please.
How much did Chertoff pay to TSA officials to get the Backscatter Strip Search Machines on order?
Who got their palms greased at TSA?
Not buying that only 44 comments were submitted in 4 days.
What are you hiding TSA?
Not buying that only 44 comments were submitted in 4 days.
________________
I noticed that, too. I just assumed Blogger Bob up and quit. I sure wouldn't blame him if he did. I wouldn't want to work for the TSA.
Note that the youtube video has collected 1,148,594 views and over 20,000 negative comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba030UmbkCo
Take your hands out of our pants.
RB Said:
Evidence please.
Here ya go....
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/19/national/main7069943.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/19/airports-consider-congressmans-ditch-tsa/
Your choice as to which article you pick....
People: Get a grip. This is just one child being searched. What does one child count when the safety and security of hundreds is at stake?
Certainly the security forces have the right and responsibility to do anything they deem necessary to protect the majority. Security must outweigh convenience.
It is great to know that the TSA deems 6 year old Caucasian girls as terrorist threats. Also great to know Janet Nopalotano doesn't give a crap that this girl was statutorily rapped by that agent, and she passed it off as the norm. If that had happened anywhere else, the police would be called and someone would be arrested. Are freedoms are under fire! You see this is what they want.
Anonymous said:
"If the TSA finds a way to give children less screening, they should give the adults less screening too. The risk is the same."
I really wish people would think before they hit the "publish" button.
Anonymous said:
"Sad to say it has come to this but if another tradgedy where to occur everyone would be yelling about more security."
If there was a tragedy, people should be asking for more effective security. Funny, that's what we're asking for now.
Anonymous said...
Do you really think they would let a registered child molester take a job for airports where they would be likely to come in contact with children.
April 19, 2011 10:22 PM
Well, they hire people from ads on pizza boxes, so... sure, why not let a child molester frisk children?.
(In case you think I'm joking about the pizza box thing: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/07/tsa_using_pizza_boxes_to_recru.html )
If you're so paranoid about terrorism that you're willing to allow a six-year-old to be touched like that, please do us all a favor and check yourself into a mental institution.
And yes, I have gotten the "resolution" patdown. More than once, at more than one airport. It isn't as invasive as it has been made out to be, but there is still NO excuse for touching a child like that.
8675309 said:
"In the rest of the world women received less security than men until this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_suicide_bomber
Children received less security until this happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict"
Then how do you suggest the TSa will react to the bomber who secreted the bomb "internally:"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml
By your reasoning, how are passengers allowed to board aircraft without a full body cavity search? Do you seriously believe the little girl who was assaulted presented a risk? Would you have supported a body cavity search for her?
Anonymous said:
"Lets not forhet who contributes to Mica's campaign.... The top 3 security groups wanting to take over airport security."
I support the politicians who I believe will act in my best interest as well, including Mica. Are you suggesting malfeasance?
"Anonymous said...Well, they hire people from ads on pizza boxes, so... sure, why not let a child molester frisk children?."
This is another genius comment from the peanut gallery. Pizza is probably the most popular food in the world. Are you really suggesting that people who respond to adds on pizza boxes are lowlifes? How high and mighty you must be? Thank you for posting here with us common folk.
Are you aware that this is a very effective recruiting technique that is used by the likes of Apple and the US Army? Think before you post people!
A question:
From what I understand this is the series of events: the child went through the scanner and an anomaly was found therefore the pat down. I thought that the scanner could show an object strapped to a leg. Why not just pat down the area where the anomaly was found? Certainly the scan results show something more specific than an object somewhere between the top of the head and the bottom of the feet?
Anonymous said...
RB Said:
Evidence please.
Here ya go....
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/19/national/main7069943.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/19/airports-consider-congressmans-ditch-tsa/
Your choice as to which article you pick....
April 20, 2011 7:44 PM
....................
First link broken.
Second link works.
"In the past 13 years, he has received almost $81,000 in campaign donations from political action committees and executives connected to some of the private contractors already at 16 U.S. airports."
$81,000 over 13 years. Hardly major supporters.
I would say that Chertoff coming out on national TV pushing the Backscatter machines and not disclosing his association with the manufacturer was much more egregious than Mica complying with campaign finance disclosure rules.
Also noted in the link to the second story that TSA supported privatizing airport security then recently reneged on that statement.
If you want to find some dishonesty about airport screening issues I suggest you look in the TSA mirror first.
Bob why does it say there are "posted by Blogger Bob at 9:07 AM | 672 Comments and at the end of the thread the number is only 601 – 670 of 670 comments?
Is it a case of censorship and you just got confused on how many civil rights violations you were committing?
Anonymous said...
People: Get a grip. This is just one child being searched. What does one child count when the safety and security of hundreds is at stake?
Certainly the security forces have the right and responsibility to do anything they deem necessary to protect the majority. Security must outweigh convenience.
April 20, 2011 8:04 PM
.............
I truly hope that you posted this in jest.
In America we have a Constitution that is suppose to limit government.
What is the real shame is that DHS/TSA seems unaware of that document.
Anonymous said:
"People: Get a grip. This is just one child being searched. What does one child count when the safety and security of hundreds is at stake?"
This is just so very wrong. The rights of every person are important and need to be protected.
It continues to be apparent that the resolution pat-downs (and pat-downs in general) are at least somewhat punitive in that they do a complete pat-down instead of just the area in question.
If this is not the case would someone from TSA please explain why.
I'm not holding my breath.
Take your hands out of 6-year-olds' pants!
Anonymous said...
"Anonymous said...Well, they hire people from ads on pizza boxes, so... sure, why not let a child molester frisk children?."
This is another genius comment from the peanut gallery. Pizza is probably the most popular food in the world.
1.3 billion Chinese disagree. As do almost as many Indians.
Are you really suggesting that people who respond to adds on pizza boxes are lowlifes?
"Lowlifes"? No. But not really the type of person I want securing my airports, either. I also don't think that people who send away for 'X-Ray glasses' out of the back of comic book qualify, either. Do you disagree?
Are you aware that this is a very effective recruiting technique that is used by the likes of Apple and the US Army?
Yeah, I can see both Apple fanbois and people the Army would like as being the type that would answer adds on pizza boxes.
ayn said:
"1. The TSA needs to fire that screener. Yes, procedures were followed. From your point of view she did nothing wrong. The public thinks otherwise. It is apparent to me that although what she did was very wrong, she is far from the worst that the TSA has working for them. But she is the one in the video, she is the one doing the assault. Yes, from the point of view of the TSA and that TSO there are no grounds for it - after all, she was just doing her job. But she needs to be made a sacrificial lamb to not only placate the public but to send a message to the rest of the work force. So if the files a wrongful termination lawsuit or a union grievance ... guess what, you can't sue the government without the government's permission to do so. That will go nowhere."
id like to see rb made a "sacrifical lamb" as you say for being on here and posting what he posts. im sure he is just doing what he thinks is right, just like the tso on the film. the public has been outraged by his statements just like the tso. if a small minority of people think one thing then its obvious that its the right thing to do.
Any chance you will be done 'moderating the comments' anytime soon? You know if you freeze the comments they don't just go away. People are noticing that suddenly no one is allowed to speak and be heard anymore. Are you in hiding? Anybody there?
id like to see rb made a "sacrifical lamb" as you say for being on here and posting what he posts. im sure he is just doing what he thinks is right, just like the tso on the film. the public has been outraged by his statements just like the tso. if a small minority of people think one thing then its obvious that its the right thing to do.
April 21, 2011 7:51 PM
.......................
Where is this outrage you say the public has about my comments Anon?
The facts of the matter is that the public agrees with me that TSA is the problem, assaulting little kids is wrong and getting felt up or electronically stripped search in order to travel is not what America is about.
I am not a politically person by nature. However, there is one thing I am sure of, any leader that would allow this to be done to others children when he has two young girls needs to go. The TSA is out of control under his watch and I blame the top not the bottom. Please let your elected officials know how you feel on this subject and if they don't listen now lets speak at the polls. If they still don't listen lets speak at the airports. Our military past and present have not fought for our freedom to have us give it back so easily.
Take you hands out of everyone's pants!
I've never seen so much carping about "rights" and "constitution" in one place. I see no mention of "Responsibility". These are dangerous times. We're at war in several places around the globe. It is not unlikely that our enemies will launch attacks against our people at any time.
In the past during war times many rights and the constitution itself has been suspended. So too, we must expect similar suspensions now. The President has the right and responsibility as commander-in-chief to promulgate law and regulation by executive order.
It is the responsibility of the people to obey the rules. Let's all get with the program.
posted by Blogger Bob at 9:07 AM | 685 Comments | Links to this pos
Oldest ‹Older 601 – 683 of 683 Newer› Newest»
...................
What is TSA trying to hide with its illegal censorship?
Anonymous said...
I am not a politically person by nature. However, there is one thing I am sure of, any leader that would allow this to be done to others children when he has two young girls needs to go.
...................
Anon, A "Leader" would not allow this to be done.
We don't have have any leaders!
Now what has RB done to be made a "sacrificial lamb", anonymous? What exactly do you think RB is doing wrong? I think the TSO did wrong by sticking her hands in a child's pants. What do you think RB did wrong?
No updates, no new posts?
Good to know that when there is enough criticism, TSA just stops listening.
It is suspiciously amazing how ignorant the people on this blog can be...And you talk about TSA. Too bad we can not have checkpoints specifically for those of you who feel violated where anyone and everyone that wants to fly can do so with no screening. Call it take my chances Airlines that way the rest of us who do not mind it, can go through the screening process and stop hearing all of your whinning. FYI maybe if the mother was more concerned about her daughter instead of shooting video she could have helped the child with the screening process
It is time to take America back I say we start with the tsa
What needs to happen is profiling. We, (The US Government) have been doing it for years in other venues and other factions of Gov. The sad fact is, the American People will, and have balked at the idea that someone is singled out because they specifically fit a profile of a person who is most likely to commit a certain offense.
That being said....Where profiling is used, it is successful. Like other forms of security, profiling is fluid and based on the latest intel. I have personally seen it , used it, and been successful.
It is no guarantee, but it does work, and myself and my colleagues would be less effective were we to use a randomized strategy in determining a persons likelihood to commit an offense. Might as well flip a coin in that case. I can send ten bad guys and be assured that some, if not all, have a chance to get through. If you fit the profile, I will stop you, talk to you, and determine and assess weather or not you present an imminent danger to a certain system, populous, landmark, or other vulnerability.
Get rid of the BDO's and place instead some well trained Agents that can spot and assess vulnerabilities and then profile an area of vulnerability in order to place certain persons in secondary screening. Everyone else, regular walk through screening. Period.
It's time to take this serious and do it right, with respect, dignity, professionalism and honor for those who fell in the tragic events of 9/11.
"What needs to happen is profiling. We, (The US Government) have been doing it for years in other venues and other factions of Gov."
We already have profiling in the form of the "No Fly List". We just have to expand the program. Certainly the law enforcement agencies have databases that contain profile data. It should be a simple matter to add that data to the list.
Once the profiled travelers are segregated from the general population they may be dealt with in an appropriate manner.
Problem solved.
so what does profiling do for the peoples' rights that are being profiled? i can see someone coming on here and saying that they were profiled and the bloggers (all 1000 of you) going bonkers because a persons rights were violated by the government when he/she says that she was profiled.
what exactly are we looking for in this "profile" that the govt should be looking for? you realize that not only islamic extremists are a threat to the US right? perhaps the govt should be on the lookout for a group of people that is anti-government and is looking to make an example of the tsa because they are viloting your 4th Amend. rights by having you step up voluntarily to get searched while going through a checkpoint.
rb said:
TSA employees who willingly stand by these xray devices without proper shielding and no radiation exposure badge have the free choice to not work for TSA. I don't care if they have bills, families or what have you, it is their choice to be exposed to deadly radiation day in and day out.
rb said:
"TSA employees who willingly stand by these xray devices without proper shielding and no radiation exposure badge have the free choice to not work for TSA. I don't care if they have bills, families or what have you, it is their choice to be exposed to deadly radiation day in and day out."
this is response to a comment posted by someone that was concerned about the amount of radiation exposure that tsa personel receives on a daily basis. Americans that are trying to get by and support their families.
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, THEN DON'T FLY. FLYING ISN'T A RIGHT.
SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMPLAIN TAKE THE BUS. THERE WAS NOTHING DONE WRONG THERE, TERRORIST WILL EVEN USE CHILDREN TO DO THEIR HARM, SO I DON NOT BELIEVE ANY CHANGES SHOULD BE MADE IN THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE NOW. I'D RATHER GET TO MY DESTINATION KNOWING EVERYONE WAS SCREENED RATHER THAN THINKING ABOUT THE POSSIBLITY SOMEONES SCREENING WAS RELAXED BECAUSE THEY FIT A CRITERIA.
Hey Bob, I read in the news today that a screener was arrested in Philly for distribution of child pornography. Is this the kind of person that would be in charge of doing pat downs on 6 year-old girls by any chance?
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20110423_Airport_passenger_screener_charged_in_distributing_child_pornography.html
Screen shot saved.
"Lee said...
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, THEN DON'T FLY. FLYING ISN'T A RIGHT.
SO IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMPLAIN TAKE THE BUS. THERE WAS NOTHING DONE WRONG THERE, TERRORIST WILL EVEN USE CHILDREN TO DO THEIR HARM, SO I DON NOT BELIEVE ANY CHANGES SHOULD BE MADE IN THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE NOW. I'D RATHER GET TO MY DESTINATION KNOWING EVERYONE WAS SCREENED RATHER THAN THINKING ABOUT THE POSSIBLITY SOMEONES SCREENING WAS RELAXED BECAUSE THEY FIT A CRITERIA.
April 23, 2011 8:24 AM"
Lee you will never know if everyone is screen to the same standards because they are not. They have never nor will they ever be screened to the same exacting standards required to totally erase the possibility of a terrorist action. This is a fact of life.
I for one would rather retain the rights and freedoms as a citizen of the United States than to watch them systematically taken away under the guise of safety. I would quote Ben Franklin but I'm pretty sure everyone already knows what he had to say.
For all of you who are willing to let the TSA/DHS continue this assault against us please feel free to move to another country more to your liking.
For all of you afraid of the terrorists please stay home and let Uncle Sam provide you with the Nanny State and safety net you seem to be wishing for.
"I would quote Ben Franklin but I'm pretty sure everyone already knows what he had to say."
Actually, I don't. Could you please tell me what Ben Franklin had to say about terrorist trying to steer flying machines into skyscrapers or his opinion on using backscatter technology to stop them? Oh wait, that's right, all of those things weren't invented yet! In fact, the genre of science fiction didn't even exist yet. So why stop at Ben Franklin, why don't you quote the caveman who etched the first drawing onto a limestone wall? Oh that's right, because it would be irrelevant.
You know why the president doesn't need a declaration of war before he starts one like the constitution requires? Could you imagine trying to get congress together to approve a war in the 8 minutes we would have between the time the first inbound ICBM was detected and our first city vaporized?
Our founding fathers wrote the best document of their time. Not ours.
"No amount of perceived security justifies giving up our Fourth Amendment rights. Just because some of you out there want to be sheep and go along with whatever the government tells you doesn't mean you speak for me."
What about the 3,000 people killed on 9/11? They don't have rights? This is not about anybody's right to fly. It's about potential victims on the ground that didn't even choose to fly. 2,400 people died at Pearl Harbor and we responded by rationing every American's fuel and food, imprisoned every American who looked Japanese without any due process, drafted over a million Americans (nearly half of which died), and then we nuked two cities. It ended with a cold war that started a dozen more proxy wars and NOBODY was quoting Benjamin Franklin.
Nothing has changed but the whining that gets louder and louder.
Those who think they have given up “so much” by going through a 30 second pat-down need to look at their grandparents to find out what REAL suffering and change to the status quo was like.
A passenger screener at Philadelphia International Airport is facing charges that he distributed more than 100 images of child pornography via Facebook, records show.
Federal agents also allege that Transportation Safety Administration Officer Thomas Gordon Jr. of Philadelphia, who routinely searched airline passengers, uploaded explicit pictures of young girls to an Internet site on which he also posted a photograph of himself in his TSA uniform.
Homeland Security agents arrested the TSA officer March 24, and he is being held without bail.
The TSA is the enemy of the American way of life.
posted by Blogger Bob at 9:07 AM | 705 Comments | Links to this post
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 701 of 701 Newer› Newest»
........................
Seems Blogger Bob is busy censoring items even after being posted.
Guess that First Amendment thing doesn't mean much at TSA, eh?
"8675309 Said.....
Our founding fathers wrote the best document of their time. Not ours."
By all means then lets just throw it out with the trash.
Based on your comments you must work for the TSA. Maybe your just confused by the actions of a country versus the actions of a tactic, I don't know. I see you don't mind participating in the whining yourself though.
I do know that actions of a government taken against ones citizens without cause must be stopped before it goes any further or gets any worse.
I wish go disassociate myself from this ENTIRE US government system. TSA you should be ashamed of yourself! Land of the free? HA!
8675309 said:
""I would quote Ben Franklin but I'm pretty sure everyone already knows what he had to say."
Actually, I don't. Could you please tell me what Ben Franklin had to say about terrorist trying to steer flying machines into skyscrapers or his opinion on using backscatter technology to stop them? Oh wait, that's right, all of those things weren't invented yet! In fact, the genre of science fiction didn't even exist yet. So why stop at Ben Franklin, why don't you quote the caveman who etched the first drawing onto a limestone wall? Oh that's right, because it would be irrelevant."
God given rights irrelevant? Interesting? Or perhaps the Constitution itself is irrelevant since it's over 100 years old? I wonder why we still swear allegiance to it then?
Seriously, 8675309, wise up. The rights cited in the Constitution are even more relevant today than they were when written. There are more things in Heaven and Earth, 8675309, than dreamt about in your philosophy. Of course that, too, was written hundreds of years ago and is, therefore, likely void in the your know-everything world.
8675309 said:
"You know why the president doesn't need a declaration of war before he starts one like the constitution requires? Could you imagine trying to get congress together to approve a war in the 8 minutes we would have between the time the first inbound ICBM was detected and our first city vaporized?"
The right of the President to act in defense of the Nation is easily covered in the Elastic Clause of the Constitution, 8675309, so this argument is silly. Also, 8 minutes is not accurate.
Any other frivilous points you'd like to make?
8675309 said:
"Those who think they have given up “so much” by going through a 30 second pat-down need to look at their grandparents to find out what REAL suffering and change to the status quo was like."
And yet they didn't find it necessary to trash Constitutional protections.
Sorry, 8675309, but you're going to curtail my Constitutional rights over my and millions of other dead bodies. If you don't like the Constitution, try to amend it. Until you do so, live with it. If that's not acceptable to you, move somewhere else.
Questions?
Lee said:
"IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT, THEN DON'T FLY. FLYING ISN'T A RIGHT."
Care to justify that, Lee? Freedom of association is an enumerated right which has been extended to cover a right to travel. Do you believe that people could be prevented from flying because of race?
Seriously, Lee, you need to think before you post. But you knew that, didn't you?
8675309 said:
"What about the 3,000 people killed on 9/11? They don't have rights?"
I'm sorry, Lee, but you might kill someone the next time you drive your car. In the interest of safety, I'm going to have to search you prior to driving. Also, you will be subject to alcohol and drug screening. In the interest of efficiency, your car will have to be driven from and returned to a government-approved parking garage where this testing can be performed. If that is inconvenient, you must accept it in the interest of security.
Your car and personal possessions will also be screened by under-trained "officers" who are not versed or particularly interested in your rights.
If this seems excessive to you, recall that there were no cars when the Constitution was written. It was only relevant to their time not ours. Driving is a privilege and not a right.
Hey - it just occured to me that your house may present a fire danger to those around you. I'll work the details of how we will be entering your home and inspecting it in a future posting.
If you oppose any of these measures, you clearly are uninterested in the safety of innocent citizens.
Anonymous said:
"FYI maybe if the mother was more concerned about her daughter instead of shooting video she could have helped the child with the screening process"
FYI: The mother was separated from her daughter and not allowed to be any closer than she was?
A note to TSA: Attempt to separate me from my children and expect to be on the news.
Anonymous said:
"Good to know that when there is enough criticism, TSA just stops listening."
No, they also get a number of TSOs to blog.
But you knew that, didn't you, Bob?
Anonymous said:
"id like to see rb made a "sacrifical lamb" as you say for being on here and posting what he posts. im sure he is just doing what he thinks is right, just like the tso on the film. the public has been outraged by his statements just like the tso."
So, you think RB should be made a "sacrifical" lamb, do you? I find your comment outrageous and demand that you be sanctioned.
Can you explain the process by which the government makes a person expressing his First Amendment rights a "sacrifical" lamb?
We must fight the tyrants among us. Here's a clue: There the people who think people exercising their Constitutional rights require punishment.
A TSO, perhaps?
(Screenshot saved)
What is TSA doing to guarantee that there are no other pedophiles working as agents, potentially patting down 6 year olds while their parents stand by helplessly and watch it happen?
http://articles.philly.com/2011-04-23/news/29466700_1_tsa-spokeswoman-ann-davis-child-pornography-federal-agents
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said:
"id like to see rb made a "sacrifical lamb" as you say for being on here and posting what he posts. im sure he is just doing what he thinks is right, just like the tso on the film. the public has been outraged by his statements just like the tso."
So, you think RB should be made a "sacrifical" lamb, do you? I find your comment outrageous and demand that you be sanctioned.
Can you explain the process by which the government makes a person expressing his First Amendment rights a "sacrifical" lamb?
We must fight the tyrants among us. Here's a clue: There the people who think people exercising their Constitutional rights require punishment.
A TSO, perhaps?
(Screenshot saved)
April 24, 2011 10:26 AM
...............
Thanks for your comments.
Seems these TSA types have even less respect for the United States Constitution than they do the traveling public.
I find it sad to see many people out here quoting our Founding Fathers, and how they determine how outraged they would be. And then I read comments on how we could fix all of this if we used profiling, etc. Are not all men created equal? How would profiling not be a gross invasion on our Constitutional rights? Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franlkin didn't have the disappointment of living in a time of terrorism and using gigantic machines as flying missiles. How can we base our views on those who lived hundreds of years ago? Times change, in every aspect of our lives, but some things should stay the same. Why? Why should people be lead to believe that we live in a world that's safer than it actually is? Why can't we view these actions as honest efforts to make our citizens safer? I would guarantee that NO TSA/DHS employee likes the fact that his or her job actually has to exist. But it does. Everyone is trying to make things safer.
Parent who allows their children near the TSA should be charged with child abuse.
They are almost as sick as the TSA.
Seems TSA doesn't want to talk about the TSA Kiddie Porn Officer.
Surely this case demands some response from TSA.
rb said:
"Anonymous said...
Anonymous said:
"id like to see rb made a "sacrifical lamb" as you say for being on here and posting what he posts. im sure he is just doing what he thinks is right, just like the tso on the film. the public has been outraged by his statements just like the tso."
So, you think RB should be made a "sacrifical" lamb, do you? I find your comment outrageous and demand that you be sanctioned.
Can you explain the process by which the government makes a person expressing his First Amendment rights a "sacrifical" lamb?
We must fight the tyrants among us. Here's a clue: There the people who think people exercising their Constitutional rights require punishment.
A TSO, perhaps?
(Screenshot saved)
April 24, 2011 10:26 AM
...............
Thanks for your comments.
Seems these TSA types have even less respect for the United States Constitution than they do the traveling public."
ah yes, but the tsa person who did the screening has no rights, just fire her for doing her job. funny how you see the Constitution on your side and not on the others. im guessing that the tsa screeners have no rights and that the passengers only do? keep trying to make this a one sided arguement.
Several misleading comments are made by TSA in their Myths and Facts section. For example:
"Myth: The TSA pat-down is invasive"
"Fact: Only passengers who alarm a walk through metal detector or AIT machine or opt out of the AIT receive a pat-down. For this reason, it is designed to be thorough in order to detect any potential threats and keep the traveling public safe. Pat-downs are performed by same-gender officers and all passengers have the right to a private screening with a travel companion at any time."
The TRUE fact (which is never addressed under the "Fact" above) is that the full pat-downs are HIGHLY invasive considering that you must stand there hands up in the air, spread-eagle while a stranger touches you all over your body including your genitalia. That the "back of the hand is used" is of little consolation.
Suppose to be 723 postings in this thread but seems BB has been censoring things again.
posted by Blogger Bob at 9:07 AM 723 Comments Links to this post
actual number of postings remaining after the censors sword
1 – 200 of 718 Newer› Newest»
So just what is TSA trying to hide from the public?
Since things have quieted down a bit here, I'm curious to know what others think about the possibility of a trusted traveler program for domestic air travel.
Our family takes about 2-3 trips a year, (or I should say did before this whole TSA debacle.) And I have to say I'm interested in finding out more about what benefits a trusted traveler program would offer.
The two things that are unacceptable to me under the current situation are 1) having the government scan my body - that is just nuts and whoever thought the idea of the government irradiating its citizens was a good idea must be a lunatic and 2) allowing the government to give patdowns of any kind to children. Get rid of those two things and we can talk - to me those two pieces of the puzzle are non-negotiable and need to go.
A trusted traveler program that utilizes background checks and an interview with an officer sounds a heck of a lot more effective than what they're doing right now and it gives the flying public an alternative that allows them to work with TSA rather than against it.
What does everyone think about this as an option?
The comments are obviously being "moderated" in recent days. Another thing you might want to point out to your elected representatives when you demand that they legislate the defunding and dismantling of the odious TSA.
http://www.wlns.com/Global/story.asp?S=14504088
TSA doing nothing about assaults on passengers, embarrassing medical results. C'mon, Bob, let's get some airtime for the real stories here and what the TSA plans on doing.
Even if it's the status quo -- doing absolutely nothing -- at least tell us so that we can go to our elected officials and demand that sexual assaults by our government stop.
Anonymous on April 25, 2011 at 1:46 pm said:
"Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franlkin didn't have the disappointment of living in a time of terrorism and using gigantic machines as flying missiles. "
You're quite correct. They didn't live in a time of terrorism and using gigantic machines as flying missiles.
Jefferson and Franklin lived in a time when the very survival of the nation was at stake. They said what they said and did what they did because they had just won independence from the very tyranny they warned future generations (including you) about.
You also said, "How can we base our views on those who lived hundreds of years ago?"
Who do you think has the best grasp of liberty, tyranny, and security? Jefferson and Franklin or John Pistole?
Is there anyway to find out just how many children the pedophile TSA patted down? If there are not records of child patdowns specifically, don't you think it is time to create some? In an abundance of caution/for our safety?
Omg what is wrong with you people? The people of tsa are your neighbors and friends. Most are young kids trying to make a difference or our military. Your all a bunch of hypocrites and you don’t deserve the freedoms you have. Go ahead keep degrading the people of tsa, keep beating them up, keep killing their spirit, all while making fools of your self’s and entertaining the terrorist
We hear these stories every day. What does it take for people to realize if they choose to fly they have to go through security. That's the rule. You might agree, disagree, or just don't have a clue, but that's the rule.
How shocked and surprised can you be when the stories come out every day? Millions travel and we see no complaint from the vast majority of travelers. If you think your intimate parts are not open for search, buy, rent or lease a plane. Or don't fly.
Get on with your lives.
Why did that agent comply with the TSA's "policy"? Why did the people in line allow it? This country belongs to "We the People". When the government attempts to take away our freedoms there should be a collective "NO!"
If all American Citizens refuse to deprive their neighbors of Constitutional rights, it doesn't matter what "policies" there are, we will have our freedom.
Revolting. Seriously revolting.
I still haven't flown since these disgusting measures were put in place. Additionally, no one in my family or extended family have flown either because of the TSA's non-sensical tactics.
Hey Bob, how about the SIMPLE and EFFECIVE approach to airport security? Fail the metal detector, get wanded, fail the wand, get REASONABLELY patted down (as was the case prior to Oct 2010) fail the pat down, get porn scanned, fail the porn scan, call the police and then proceed with groping. I'm happy with that. I'll even wait in line for 2 hours if that's how it has to go. Just quit touching little girls, grannies, hot mom's and the medically infirm.
The TSA is a WASTE of our time and money. It's stripping us of our freedom. We're more afraid of you than we are of terrorists. Congratulations.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.
ah yes, but the tsa person who did the screening has no rights, just fire her for doing her job. funny how you see the Constitution on your side and not on the others. im guessing that the tsa screeners have no rights and that the passengers only do? keep trying to make this a one sided arguement.
April 25, 2011 5:50 PM
...............
So anon, where do you find it written that the TSA screnner has no rights? That is just a flat out statement not supported by facts.
As far as the screening itself, it is clear to the most casual observer that TSA is infested with all manner of "Bad Apples".
To screen people with this very invasive pat down for no reason is not acceptable. Other means are available to screen for WEI and if cause is developed then and only then should a pat down be used, especially with children.
The TSA "Bad Apples" must be dealt with by TSA but for some reason TSA seems reluctant to deal with the ongoing bunch of TSA criminals.
TSA keeps making statements that these "Bad Apples" don't reflect on the rest of TSA employees but be sure that the public thinks they do.
Any time a person looks at a TSA employee they have to wonder just what kind of person they are, all thanks to your fellow TSA workers.
Anonymous said...
Omg what is wrong with you people? ... Your all a bunch of hypocrites and you don’t deserve the freedoms you have.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for that view point.
I disagree completely.
I DO deserve the freedoms I have. I have worked to earn them, I continue to work to protect them, I have been working my entire adult life to make sure that not only I have those freedoms but that you do too. I don't know you personally, but I will continue to work hard to protect the freedoms that you and I both have. To do any less would not make me worthy of calling myself a Citizen of this Great Nation called the United States of America.
You are more than welcome to give up your Constitutional Rights, one of the Rights granted to you by that particular document makes it so that the Rights granted to you are yours to give up if you so desire.
I, on the other hand, have no interest in giving up my Constitutional Rights and will oppose all who try and take them from me.
I oppose the TSA.
I oppose the DHS.
I oppose any branch and every member of the Government that seeks to limit the Rights granted to me as an Individual by the Constitution of the United States of America.
731 posts supposedly in this thread but it seems through TSA censorship there are only 726.
Hmmm, government censorship.
Way to go TSA, support and defend that Constitution, except when it gets in your way.
I don't fear terrorist.
TSA on the other hand, scares me greatly.
Which do you want? A Cancer Scan or a crotch grope? What a choice.
If TSA wants to find terrorist in our nation, they should invest in mirrors.
Can we PLEASE get a new blog story so we have something besides this old news to complain about?!
Thanks!
Leaving aside for the moment all of the delicious embarrasment that TSA continually finds itself in (the latest in sexually assaulting kids is a classic) here is a hard fact for all those who wonder why TSA even exists: TSA's annual budget is $6.3billion. What does that buy us?
Well this last week, TSA by its own post prevented a total of 32 items from going through security (only 18 were identified as firearms, and the 32 included 5 undisclosed items that were probably water bottles!). If we assume this is a typical week, then each seizure cost the taxpayer $3.8MILLION.
Nice going, TSA - very efficient. You must have worked hard to get it under $4M per seizure.
delete-o-meter:
"While we’re on the subject of deleted posts, it’s important to know why we do delete some posts. It all breaks down to the following reasons:
Personal attacks (on both officers and passengers)
Profanity (and I thought some sailors knew how to curse)
Long embedded url strings (only because it messes up the format of the blog)
Threats (enough said on this one)
Duplicate posts (hitting submit 12 times won't make the comment appear any faster)
Off-topic comments (and since we can't tell which topic a comment goes under when we moderate, we mean REALLY off topic, think plagues of locust off topic…)
Sensitive information (TSA folks explaining exact procedures that could aid someone wishing to do us harm)"
so this might explain why some comments are deleted. remember this is one of the very few blogs that allow you to complain about the agency. its funny that people a while back commended this blog for allowing bloggers to do so, now they want every post posted per the Constitution. lets remember that there are rules and not everything goes.
Disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!! I am going to boycott
Anonymous said...
[delete-o-meter rules]
so this might explain why some comments are deleted.
...except I personally have had posts 'not make it' to the blog, even though they violated none of those rules. They all seemed to be posts critical of the TSA, too. Go fig.
Oh, and for all of you posting on the discrepancies in the numbers of posts shown- there could very well be an innocent explanation. Faulty software, fencepost errors, not counting Moderator posts, etc. I hate the TSA myself, but I think that picking on trivial things like post counts makes us look like fools. I urge you instead to take that energy and write (like, with actual paper and pen[cil]) to your Representatives. Tell them how and why you hate the TSA.
This blog contains several very old articles and only one new article about the 6 year old getting searched.
How about posting an article about the Former Miss USA who believes that she was sexually assaulted when the TSA staffer touched her genitals four times during the search?
so this might explain why some comments are deleted. remember this is one of the very few blogs that allow you to complain about the agency. its funny that people a while back commended this blog for allowing bloggers to do so, now they want every post posted per the Constitution. lets remember that there are rules and not everything goes.
April 30, 2011 6:34 PM
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Your right, there are rules one of which prohibits government censorship.
Anonymous said...
I'm driving 2800 miles round trip this summer because I WILL NOT allow the TSA to grope my child. As a parent, I could not watch that video in its entirety without nearly tossing my lunch. If a middle-aged man did that to a little girl in a public park, he would be arrested.
April 13, 2011 2:50 PM
___________________________________
Have a safe trip! I know I will when I fly :)
Now that we've captured Osama bin Laden, will the TSA finally stop molesting people at the airport?
Anonymous wrote: Have a safe trip! I know I will when I fly :)
Not because of the TSA, though. Their failure rate in tests shows that they make no real contribution to actual security or safety.
Anon said: As a white female executive for a major corporation who travels extensively, I am convinced that I am being singled out for some sick reason by TSA for a pat down on a nearly regular basis to make an example of "not profiling". I am usually wearing a dark conservative business suit and it seems that the underwire in my bra is a big problem. Interestingly, the metal in men's zippers does not cause the same amount of commotion. I would like to see every man's zipper set off off the metal detector like they claim my underwire does since that is where the goons focus their attention every time. OR, they expect me to remove my Rolex (fat chance) and watch it disappear into their black box. We are so screwed up. While TSA is molesting little girls we read about people getting through screening carrying enormous weapons.
Let me clarify some things for you. WE don't select you bc of your bra, its the "METAL" detector. If you are (trying to say this nicely) weight challenged or just "blessed" in the chest area, it more than likely requires more support in your bra. Generally, those more supportive bras will set off the metal detector bc more support requires more "METAL". So hence, they will set off the "metal" detector. So basically, if you alarm and cannot remove item causing the alarm, you go for additional screening. Its not some "sick" reason you believe it to be. If you guys think that we seriously watch intently for "victims" to terrorize, you are mistaken. We are there trying to do our job and then go home just like any other American out there who works and looks forward to quitting time. You make us sound like crazy villians who do the evil eye and rub our hands together while grinning wilding and waiting on our pray to come within capture. My lord, get a grip people!
2nd, regular zippers on pants will not EVER set off a metal detector. If they did, we would be patting down about 95% of passengers who enter the checkpoint.
3rd, it is completely understandable to not want to send your valuable watch/jewelry through out in the open bc yes, there are thieves out there unfortunately. So here are your options, either be "smart" and tuck them away in your bag before going through screening or dont, and know it may set off the metal detector which calls for that secondary screening you all know of and love :)
Aaaaand lastly, we DO catch those weapons you spoke of and yes, we do pat downs on anyone who alarms whatever form of machinery they go thru. Profiling is wrong AND creates a loophole/vulnerability.
Ladies and gentlemen, our "well trained and capable" TSA workforce:
Anon, presumably a TSO, said:
"Let me clarify some things for you. WE don't select you bc of your bra, its the "METAL" detector. If you are (trying to say this nicely) weight challenged or just "blessed" in the chest area, it more than likely requires more support in your bra."
Are underwire bras a security concern? Or is it that after years of the TSA, you still can't determine what is or isn't a threat? Why has this not been addressed?
"Its not some "sick" reason you believe it to be. If you guys think that we seriously watch intently for "victims" to terrorize, you are mistaken."
No, you simply terrorize people out of incompetence. Is this supposed to make us feel better?
"We are there trying to do our job and then go home just like any other American out there who works and looks forward to quitting time. You make us sound like crazy villians who do the evil eye and rub our hands together while grinning wilding and waiting on our pray to come within capture."
I'm sure many of the Germans who supported the Nazi regime felt exactly the same way. Again, is this supposed to make us feel better? You stomp on our rights not because you want to but because you just want to get home after quitting time?
"My lord, get a grip people!
2nd, regular zippers on pants will not EVER set off a metal detector. If they did, we would be patting down about 95% of passengers who enter the checkpoint."
Hold on - zippers are made of metal. Metal is a threat, in the mind of the TSA, hence "METAL" detectors, remember? You're not scrrening 95% of the people out of convenience? How dare you ignore this security flaw!
"Aaaaand lastly, we DO catch those weapons you spoke of and yes, we do pat downs on anyone who alarms whatever form of machinery they go thru."
The TSA catches weapons less than half the time they're sent through security. Is that acceptable to you?
"Profiling is wrong AND creates a loophole/vulnerability."
Please keep your moral judgements to yourself. You believe it is acceptable to patdown children in a way that normal people interpret as assault; I'm not interested in your judgement.
Profiling is highly effective and used everyday by law enforcement (the people for whom security is a serious task) and, yes, by the TSA through the (highly ineffective) BDO's using the (discredited) SPOT program.
(Screenshot taken and blog link forwarded to my Representative and Senators).
If you guys think that we seriously watch intently for "victims" to terrorize, you are mistaken. We are there trying to do our job and then go home just like any other American out there who works and looks forward to quitting time. You make us sound like crazy villians who do the evil eye and rub our hands together while grinning wilding and waiting on our pray to come within capture. My lord, get a grip people!
May 2, 2011 6:47 PM
Name one other job that requires feeling up little six year old girls without probable cause.
Doing such things tells the public all they need to know about TSA employees.
Anonymous said...
Now that we've captured Osama bin Laden, will the TSA finally stop molesting people at the airport?
May 2, 2011 12:06 AM
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Nope! They will use it as an excuse to deprive us of even more freedom. It is becoming more apparent with time that the government finds our freedom an impediment to their own objectives. They no longer listen to us and they are perfectly comfortable ignoring the Constitution.
They use every excuse they can to claim there is a new threat, which only they can protect us from. And what is the only way they can protect us? By us giving them our freedom.
If the TSA were honestly trying to protect us they would act much differently than they do.
Anonymous said:
"Let me clarify some things for you. WE don't select you bc of your bra, its the "METAL" detector."
Interesting. I go through the "METAL" detectors wearing my large, titanium watch and it never sets off the detector. How can that be? Can firearms not be made of titanium? Of course, they can be. The "METAL" detectors are really magnetometers that detect ferrous metals, aren't they? And no self-respecting terrorist would use a non-ferrous firearm, would he?
It's all show, security theater for the people.
To those who support the TSA. Please, take a car. I do not want to share a plane with cowards. You have the right to free travel. Go anywhere you wish. You do not have the right to interfere with my constitutional liberty/privacy. You actually don't have any “right” to fly without risk to your life but I do have a (legally-protected) right to not have my groin groped or viewed without permission. The TSA isn't due any credit for stopping planes being hijacked. There is more chance of you killing, or being killed by someone by driving your car, so if you are also willing to accept the government preventing you driving your car, your arguments might have some validity. Alternatively, you can accept that there are always risks in life, and while we can do what we can to prevent many of them, we cannot prevent them all and no risks are worth sacrificing liberty and the personal privacy/dignity that these TSA policies take away. If you do not want to get on a plane where people have not been groped or had their body scanned with radiation and had naked images of themselves viewed by strangers, please find other transportation. It is not your right to fly to your destination while insisting other people's dignity and fundamental human rights are taken away.
No one is forcing you on that plane; however, I suggest you get over your fear. Nothing is ever totally safe and without risk but some things are worth taking risks and preserving liberty is the most noble risk of all.
In the 21st century, if you want to terrorize a society, you just have to make improbable threats, press the anxiety buttons and watch them protect themselves to death.
Your adversary will spend billions to your hundreds - The best ROI ever!
Do it several times and the billions will amount to more than the GNP of many countries - How's that for effective?
Why does are government buy into this, when what they REALLY need is good old-fashion police work to find these bad actors before they get to the Plane or Bus or Subway or Public Building. They can't protect them all.
Why the PARANOID security at the airports? It hasn't worked in the past. Nobody has been caught before an event, and we've had a few slip by. What makes people think we will be able to catch serious bad actors now? Besides, chances are bad actors will just go somewhere else, equally dramatic.
It's impossible to discover a one in a several billion event by screening people!
What's it cost for all this nonsense in REAL TERMS?
My guess (last 9 years)
$50 Billion for the 55,000 gov't workers that keep unemployment under 15%
$200 Billion or more in lost productivity for millions of Americans.
This is real money even by government standards, but it has resulted in NOTHING!
We could colonize Mars for this kind of money, but TSA would probably put some of the Astronauts on the NFL.
TSA Needs a complete overhaul, starting first by lopping off the bottom. Privatization would be even better. This would restore our 4th amendment.
Stop putting your hands in people's pants
I had a very good expeerience on a recent trip from LAX to Minneapolis-St. Paul. Last year I had joint replacement surgery on both knees. Of course the metal detector went off, but the TSA screeners very courteously offered me the scanner. I was through it in less than 5 seconds with no problem.
Frequently flying I refuse to be subjected to the xray or terahertz examination, which I understand requires my being subjected to a full pat down. Taking off my shirt, I was told by a TSA employee that I had to put my shirt back on. The employee explained that the airport was a public place which required the shirt being on. I asked him if a swimming pool or a beach was a public place. He called his supervisor who came over and explained that a person cannot take off a shirt for an exam. I told him I did the same thing at LAX just a week ago and was examined, no problem. He said that it was a public place to which I pointed him to the advertisement featuring the Las Vegas show "Thunder Down Under" the display showing all topless men. I reminded him that the new scanning is essentially digital disrobing, so what is wrong with me taking off my shirt. He asked why I wanted to take off the shirt and I told him to speed the patdown procedure and to limit the amount of touching. The supervisor stated that he understood and did not really understand why there was a problem with taking off the shirt for the procedure but that people do not normally do that. He asked me why I didn't want to go through the scanners, I told him that until such time that the pilots and flight attendants voluntarily go through the scanners, I will not go through the scanners. During this discussion I was patted down and having completed the process I concluded my discussion with the supervisor, with the shirt on. The supervisor was very polite, although the initial contact with the TSA employee manning the bucket bins who demanded that I put on my shirt was disconcerting.
I would greatly appreciate legal clarification prohibiting me from taking off my shirt for the enhanced pat down.
Anonymous,
For some reason, they can only pat down clothed areas. This is probably a result of people complaining about TSOs touching faces. But they must give everyone a full pat down, so they require everyone to be fully clothed.
Never mind that they can visually clear you. The TSOs aren't given that much latitude because even the TSA doesn't trust them that much. But they do give them enough authority to power trip and frisk and grope and squeeze anywhere that is clothed.
If they could visually clear people, then everyone would wear beach wear and undermine the porno-scopes by rendering them unnecessary. Then Chertoff wouldn't profit, and that is the real mission of the TSA.
Whenever I've boarded a plane I've watched soldiers waltz right through security with their boots laced up.
So infants are now more threatening to national security than someone dressed as a soldier? Guess so, since "TSA policy" says it is.
Fort Hood, notwithstanding.
The issue here is not wether the procedure was followed or not. The issue is that the procedure itself is a cause of trauma to many.
It must be discontinued.
Hands down a six year olds pants? How exactly does the TSA manage the prurient interests of its employees?
Record EVERY TSA patdown, and if this happens to your child, go to EVERY person who saw it and collect their contact information so that you can summon them to testify AGAINST these Fascist TSA agents in court, and UNDER OATH! WE NEED TO DO THIS IN MASS QUANTITIES if we are to teach the TSA a lesson that those who trample on our RIGHTS deserve to be severely punished! If the TSA's immoral and unconstitutional practices are not exposed on a mass scale, then Civil Liberties have FAILED US!
Where is the Fourth Amendment issue, given that you imply your consent to a search merely by being in a secure area?
Where a minor child is concerned, that consent is implied by the parent/guardian.
Watch the vid closely. NOBODY put his hands down the kid's pants.
You people are "seeing" what you wanna see, not what actually happened.
NOBODY puts their hands down a kid's pants in the middle of a crowd and while the parent is standing right there, recording the whole thing.
a quick question; was the person giving the patdown a tsa agent? kansas city is not federalized. so for the people that are calling for non-federalized screening, this is what you will get THE SAME THING!!! hello!!??!?!?!?!?
tsa will still be in charge of policy even if its not tsa agents doing the work at the airports. so now you will be relying on a private company to hire people and who will they hire? most likely the recently let to tssa agents cause they have the training... also the great expense will still be there because im sure, just like the airlines these private companiesd will want some sort of subsidy from the govt to protect their bottom line. God Bless America
Fire them all and bring back the dogs.
In the airport at Pittsburgh, i saw the full-body scanners in person for the first time. They were supposed to be faster than metal detectors, this has been a perk to putting them everywhere. Security was way backed up compared to anything i've seen in any airport and i'm fairly well traveled. At one point, the line split and you could choose whether or not to go metal detector, or full-body. It was like getting to the other side of a traffic jam when i went metal.
I watched (almost walked past the guy checking boarding passes i was so focused) and NOT ONE, i am NOT exaggerating, person that went through full-body did not get a follow-up pat down. It didn't seem to be the "enhanced"--though honestly let's just call them what they are, invasive--pat downs but what's the point of these scanners if then you have to get a pat down anyhow?
You are correct that they will do what they can to promote fear-mongering because fear keeps them employed.
Think about that people, we pay them to keep us scared to keep us paying them.
Too much power in the hands of a single agency. I don't have a problem not flying to keep my privacy and my toy hammer.
Just imagine what will happen to your precious department during governmental restructuring (that will occur in the next 10 years).
Good luck w/the bad publicity, because it's all you've EVER had.
Wow! 766 comments as of 7/03/11, and still counting. This post surely got a lot of reaction.
As an American I think what the TSA is doing seems so wrong. They have no right to touch children. Adults can choose not to fly. Kids can not.
I hope that we all can find a better way to be 'safe' and not create infighting. Look we are all on the same team it is time we start supporting each other.
Thatbeingsaid, I think what is happening is criminal.
I would rather take my chances than have some stranger touch me where my bathing suit covers.
Is this the 'freedom' my family fought for in WW2?
Since SUICIDE BOMBERS are ready to die for their religious beliefs, how easy it will be for an explosive to be set off when a TSA MEMBER gropes them only to set the explosive off?? Seems even BOMB SQUAD personnel wear protective vests, shoes and use shields to protect themselves and use a robot in the physical aspect of opening said unknown device. How is a 'PAT DOWN' being SAFE and SECURE FOR THE FLYING PUBLIC or a TSA hired personnel against some form of TRIGGER DEVICE?? I hope you all consider this cause common sense tells me it ain't good !!
This is really quite outrageous behaviour on the TSA's part. I no longer fly because of it.
This is why I no longer and never will fly again. I will always find some other way to get where I need to go, and if flying is the only way, then I do not need to be there. If I ever have any children, they will not fly anywhere, either.
It's very difficult to find proper security procedures in this situation. Every body demands 100% security, but then they also want privacy and do feel good about some invasive screening...
There's a reason foreign terrorists aren't attacking the USA - and it's not because they're scared. It's because the TSA has done the job for them.
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