Today, we announced the findings of a months-long investigation into allegations of improper screening of baggage at Honolulu International Airport (HNL). The investigation revealed that a portion of checked
baggage presented to one shift of employees at one location, affecting a limited number of flights per day, were purposefully improperly screened.
The result? Today, we delivered over thirty proposed letters of removal to employees implicated in the investigation (including two senior managers). As Administrator Pistole said, "We hold our workforce to the
highest ethical standards and will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public."
Countless TSA employees work hard every day to protect travelers at airports nationwide. These employees know that our success depends on their hard work, professionalism and integrity. We have a serious job
to do, and anyone who is not doing that job will be held accountable.
Our country, our agency and the flying public deserve no less.
Nico Melendez
TSA Blog Team
If you’d like to comment on an unrelated topic you can do so in our Off Topic Comments post. You can also view our blog post archives or search our blog to find a related topic to comment in. If you have a travel related issue or question that needs an immediate answer, you can contact a Customer Support Manager at the airport you traveled, or will be traveling through by using Talk to TSA.
228 comments:
1 – 200 of 228 Newer› Newest»Link to article is broken...
How could something like this go on for sometime without being discovered.
What kind of oversight does TSA have in its workplaces?
Seems like the answer is none!
THe link in your article, http://www.tsa.gov/press/releases/2011/0610.shtm%20, gives a 404 error.
Rigorous hiring procedures have resulted in a quality workforce that the public can be certain isn't going for a little extra squeeze just for fun.
----
you wrote: "we delivered over thirty proposed letters of removal to employees"
should read: "we immediately fired the employees and will file criminal charges against them"
----
Pistole says:
"We hold our workforce to the
highest ethical standards and will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public."
But really he means:
"We propose to hold our workforce to the highest ethical standards and will propose to not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public."
So, Bob ... what, exactly, are the penalties for employees who break the rules? You don't have to name names, all you have to do is give us a list that connects the offense to the punishment.
Hopefully it is more than retraining.
Perhaps you should do a blog entry about what the penalty is when a front line TSO violates policy. You don't have to reveal the SSI SOP. We know a few things that you have told us already.
"We hold our workforce to the
highest ethical standards and will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public."
---------------------------------
Yet employees who do not follow current policy and violate passengers right are tolerated...
These employees know that our success depends on their hard work, professionalism and integrity. We have a serious job
to do, and anyone who is not doing that job will be held accountable.
---------------------------------
Was the employee in Detroit who took the plastic hammer demonstrating the professionalism mentioned?
Nico,
The fact that the TSA had to fire that many people from one airport tells us the TSA bureaucratic leadership is asleep at the switch, but that's not news to many Americans, especially to those of us who travel frequently.
Please spare us the patronization about the professional and ethical standards the TSA demands. Just perform a simple Internet search with the TSA acronym; your claims don't match reality. But then again, the TSA is used to making claims that don't sync with reality.
Dear Blogger Bob,
if you wouldn't want your neighbors looking at and touching your loved ones, how do you justify looking at and touching others? To me they are both criminal acts and pose a greater threat to liberty than the endless war on boogy men under the bed we fight...Read on:
By Brian Thompson
NBCNewYork.com
updated 6/7/2011 5:15:15 PM ET
A former supervisor with the Transportation Security Administration has been sentenced to more than two years in prison after pleading guilty to taking bribes from a TSA officer who was stealing from passengers.
Michael Arato, 42, of Ewing, N.J., pleaded guilty to taking kickbacks from former TSA officer Al Raimi, 29, of Woodbridge, N.J.
According to prosecutors, Raimi stole between $10,000 and $30,000 in cash from travelers going through a Terminal B checkpoint at Newark Liberty International Airport last Fall.
Video surveillance showed Arato taking approximately $3,100 in bribes from Raimi, who also pleaded guilty and is awaiting sentencing.
In addition to the 30 months in a federal prison, Arato was ordered by U.S. District Judge Jose Linares to reimburse victims $24,150 while forfeiting the $3,100 in kickback money to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
So they slapped his hand...so what the crimes against the Constitution and the American people continue unabated.
What is a "proposed letters of removal"?
Does that mean these employees have not yet been fired?
Is TSA still paying them?
With all due respect, the TSA can crow about "accountability" and "highest ethical standards" when you announce the employees have actually been fired.
To do so after delivering "proposed letters of removal" is a bit premature, and disingenuous.
"proposed letters of removal" - for how long are we taxpayers going to be paying the salaries of these people before they are finally removed?
Will the TSA hold employees who lie to the public about their right to document actions by TSA employees at the checkpoints by video-recording those actions accountable? How about TSA employees who intentionally attempt to block those video documentations?
Will the TSA hold the corrupt officials accountable who have used the excuse of the Underwear Bomber to sell millions of dollars of scanners to the government and then force people to choose between being digitally strip search or sexually molested?
If we ended the TSA we would not have this type of problem in the first place. The TSA is the perfect "self-licking" government ice cream cone.
Proposed letters of removal are just that. Regulation prevents the firing of federal employees without the chance of appeal. This is to prevent agencies from firing employees to cover up a situation. I'm sure TSA management does not want any appeal as it might turn out that the worker bees were just doing what they were told by TSA management to speed the boarding along.
Does it not seem odd that over thirty people were doing something wrong at the same time and management was unaware?
yes, they are on paid admin leave until their right to due process is complete.
You people are silly. In one thread you rant about TSA not holding their people accountable ... in a post where we clearly do, you rant that we do hold our people accountable. Lord... pick an argument and stick with it.
What?
"The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced today that it has proposed the removal of more than 30 Honolulu International Airport (HNL) TSA employees following an extensive investigation into allegations of improper screening of checked baggage."
Fire them. Or don't fire them. There is no try.
You can have them removed during the appeals process. If they win their appeal then you have them back.
And then there is the entire black-eye this gives your attempt at Security in that you can't even get baggage screening correct where you don't have those pesky 'customers' trying to get in your face.
The TSA has to be stopped. Write your elected officials!
How many "isolated" incidents do you need to see a pattern? How many "individuals" to you have to point out to make a crowd? How many "unrelated incidents" you need to report to understand your approach is flawed?
Oh, wait, they are federal union employees...we're all screwed then...keep sending your blogs updates, Bob....we need more blogs...more...blogs...will make us feel safe....
Speaking of accountability I have two situations I would like TSA to respond to.
The Newark FSD was relieved of duties due to direction given to the airports BDO's yet this person was promoted to TSA HQ. Is that Accountability?
The TSA staff including one person wearing a suit so I would guess a TSM at a minimum held a lady hostage for a period of time for asking TSA to provide alternative screening of some breast milk.
Why are these people still on the payroll?
How about some honest answers TSA?
Blogger Bob says:
We hold our workforce to the
highest ethical standards and will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public.
Anonymous says:
Yet employees who do not follow current policy and violate passengers right are tolerated...
Bob [not the blogger] asks:
What "Rights" are being violated?
Bob [not the blogger] asks:
What "Rights" are being violated?
----------------------------------
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2005-12-29-camera-laws_x.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2006-08-11-photography-rights_x.htm
http://content.photojojo.com/tips/legal-rights-of-photographers/
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
- Ben Franklin.
Anonymous said...
Proposed letters of removal are just that. Regulation prevents the firing of federal employees without the chance of appeal. This is to prevent agencies from firing employees to cover up a situation. I'm sure TSA management does not want any appeal as it might turn out that the worker bees were just doing what they were told by TSA management to speed the boarding along.
Does it not seem odd that over thirty people were doing something wrong at the same time and management was unaware?
June 11, 2011 4:04 PM
.............
Let them appeal the firing being fired.
"These employees know that our success depends on their hard work, professionalism and integrity. We have a serious job
to do, and anyone who is not doing that job will be held accountable."
I'm still waiting for that accountability on two incidents at BWI earlier this year. I haven't had any resolution to either after I filed complaints. One was picked up by a TSI and I haven't heard anything for 2 months. The other was completely ignored.
Accountability? Sure Bob and Nico, we believe you.
Earl
your entire organization should be FIRED! DHS/TSA is American TERRORISM
The key removals we are looking for are 1) Janet Napolitano, 2) John Pistole, and 3) the scanners.
[[Bob [not the blogger] asks:
What "Rights" are being violated?]]
Freedom from unreasonable search, for one.
But you knew that.
And before you bend yourself into pretzels, let me just cover and dismiss the standard arguments:
"The 4thAM is a criminal rights amendment"
- so criminals get more rights than Average Joes trying to get through their day?
"The 4thAM says "reasonable" - looking for bombs and guns [etc] is reasonable"
- "reasonable" is tied - in the Constitution - to the existence of a warrant. You only need to read the thing to see that.
"The 4thAM has been interpreted as not requiring a warrant for certain searches"
No one has the authority to "interpret" the Constitution. Yes, I'm aware it goes on and has for much of our 215 years of Constitutional existence, but facts are facts: there is no branch of government that was given the authority to interpret 2+2 equaling anything-but-4.
"Interpretation" is changing the Constitution by unapproved means. The courts who made those successive interpretations are wrong, and so are you if you accept it without quibble.
If the issue of terrorism is so critical, then change the Constitution the correct way to deal with it.
[[Let them appeal the firing being fired.]]
...the way everyone else has to.
[[they are on paid admin leave until their right to due process is complete.]]
Due Process does not preclude them getting the hell off the public dime.
[[In one thread you rant about TSA not holding their people accountable ... in a post where we clearly do, you rant that we do hold our people accountable.]]
Not firing people for what would be criminal actions for anybody else is notNotNOT "holding employees accountable". If you think it is, then you have gone well beyond 'silly' and are approaching irrational.
An electrician, plumber, or other home service person caught on nanny-cam rifling the homeowners' valuables would be fired first and would have to sue his employer for wrongful termination later. And it doesn't violate Due Process.
[[Lord... pick an argument and stick with it.]]
I don't think it's anyone but the mirror you should be talking to, there.
Bob [not the blogger] asks:
What "Rights" are being violated?
rwilymz says: Freedom from unreasonable search, for one.
Bob [not the blogger] says:
The search is not unreasonable. If there is a reason for the search, the search is not unreasonable.
It is not unreasonable if there is implied consent -- that is, that your action implies your consent to the search.
Signage at the perimeter of the airport tells you that you are subject to search.
The very fact that you are on airport property implies your consent.
Signage just outside the checkpoint tells you that you are subject to search.
The very fact that you walk through onto the checkpoint implies your consent.
rwilymz says:
- "reasonable" is tied - in the Constitution - to the existence of a warrant.
Bob [not the blogger] says:
There is no need for a warrant where there is consent to the search. You can watch "Cops" and see that.
rwilymz says:
No one has the authority to "interpret" the Constitution.
Bob [not the blogger] asks:
HUH???
rwilymz says:
If the issue of terrorism is so critical, then change the Constitution the correct way to deal with it.
Bob [not the blogger] says:
Not necessary.
Anonymous says:
your entire organization should be FIRED! DHS/TSA is American TERRORISM
Bob [not the blogger] says:
The terrorists agree with you.
IraqVet aks:
...if you wouldn't want your neighbors looking at and touching your loved ones, how do you justify looking at and touching others?
Bob [not the blogger} says:
Uhhhh, safety of all.
IraqVet says:
To me...
Bob [not the blogger] says:
And THAT's a key phrasing. To YOU.
IraqVet says:
...they are both criminal acts...
Bob [not the blogger] says:
The law tells us the difference. I'm shocked, after all this country has been through, that you can't tell the difference.
"These employees know that our success depends on their hard work, professionalism and integrity."
Exactly what success would that be, Bob? How many terrorist incidents has the TSA stopped?
So, like every major corrupt government, military or corporation, the TSA fires some random expendable grunts, and tries to pretend the problem is solved.
Well, 36 down, several thousand to go.
Until TSA is competent enough to even put a dent in theft from passenger bags, then how can they possibly claim to be able to prevent anything unsafe from getting onto planes? Until then, I'll have no respect for the people that do this 'job' as it is all just theater to make things seem as if they are being effective.
they'll also never be effective against someone that can merely walk into Wal-Mart, buy a rifle and ammo, and sit in a wooded area a few hundred yards from the end of a runway and take easy pot shots at the plane going by. the war against moisture continues.
Ok BNTB, let's try this.
I place a sign in front of your house, where you can see it from your front door, that says leaving your yard subjects you to assault, robbery, rape, and abuse. Now let's take your statement:
"It is not unreasonable if there is implied consent -- that is, that your action implies your consent to the search.
Signage at the perimeter of the of your front yard tells you that you are subject to assault, robbery, rape, and abuse.
The very fact that you step out of your yard implies your consent.
Signage just outside your yard tells you that you are subject to assault, robbery, rape, and abuse.
The very fact that you walk out of your yard onto the sidewalk implies your consent.
Now, do you think merely placing a sign in front of your house is sufficient for you to grant your consent, even if what the sign says will be done is of questionable legality? Do you think your implied consent changes the legality of the actions on the sign?
Earl
RB said...
Speaking of accountability I have two situations I would like TSA to respond to.
The Newark FSD was relieved of duties due to direction given to the airports BDO's yet this person was promoted to TSA HQ. Is that Accountability?
The TSA staff including one person wearing a suit so I would guess a TSM at a minimum held a lady hostage for a period of time for asking TSA to provide alternative screening of some breast milk.
Why are these people still on the payroll?
How about some honest answers TSA?
June 12, 2011 7:01 PM
Seems TSA doesn't want to answer the hard questions.
Anonymous says:
your entire organization should be FIRED! DHS/TSA is American TERRORISM
Bob [not the blogger] says:
The terrorists agree with you.
Ayn R. Key says:
Why? The TSA is their biggest victory.
12.07.2010
TSA Response to "TSA Breast Milk Screening" Video
Updated on 12/9/2010 at 8:25 P.M. to add that proper procedures were followed.
..............
Is it "Proper Procedure" for TSA to hold a person hostage or is it just one more demonstration of NO Accountability at TSA?
"The terrorists agree with you."
The terrorists are delighted with TSA, since TSA does al qaeda's work each and every day.
Bob [not the blogger], you continue to repeat that, by entering an airport and purchasing a ticket, you have waived your rights against unreasonable search and seizure. It's simply untrue.
Passengers have waived no rights. Screeners are allowed to do a limited, targeted search to discover weapons and/or explosives. That's it. Screeners are not allowed under the 4th Amendment to do a dragnet search for things that may be illegal (i.e. drugs) but aren't otherwise harmful to a plane.
And no, a search is not made "reasonable" by the person doing the search having a reason for the search. That's just foolish.
Very few people criticizing the TSA believe that there should be no searches at all. Just that the TSA makes us no safer than we were before. If we went back to the same airport search protocols as existed on September 10, 2001, we'd be just as safe as we are now without having to deal with the way the TSA operates.
Bob [not the blogger) Are you a Federal plant on these boards? You seem a bit to sheepish...
This seems to be a problem nationwide.I have a solution.
Make it mandatory, that all TSA agents have polygraph test done.
We will see how honest they really are.If they cant pass it,terminate them or deny them employment.
Other federal agencies do this practice for employment, so TSA should do the same to weed out the bad agents.
And just what, pray tell, are we supposed to believe of an agency that has proven, time and time again, that it is incapable of screening its own employees?
Oh, Yes. That's right. We already know. Security Theatre. Thousands Standing Around. Baggage Theft Agency. Trained Slacker Ahead. Boob-Ooglers and crotch-grabbers anonymous. 'Do you want to fly today?' screaming imbeciles. 'We do not confiscate anything, but you can not take that with you even though it is on the permitted list'. The War on Water. The truth about the agencies image to the American public kind of hurts, doesn't it?
Well, I must again offer up the same two suggestions that have never been accepted as 'acceptable' to the comment policy. Clean up your own house first. Work to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
May your future be less ugly than your past.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/06/14/new.jersey.airport.profiling/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
More TSA misbehavior with no significant punishment.
From today's headlines:
"Transportation Security Administration employees told KITV 4 News an unsafe situation persisted at Honolulu International Airport for months because screeners were worried they'll get in trouble for reporting problems.
_________________
Transportation security officers -- known as TSOs -- said they face a Catch-22 at the TSA, because they are required to report any security violations or improper behavior by co-workers -- but said they face retaliation if they do.
___________________
Another TSA screener said, "This whole place is about intimidation."
The full article is at channel 4, ABC, KITV.com
TSA should be ashamed to continue taking our tax dollars. This is a bloated, ineffective, incompetent organization. They are a travesty.
Accountable also means allowing employees to blow the whistle on management's wrong practices. Do you believe for a moment some screeners didn't know it was wrong but did things anyway to "keep their jobs and not cause trouble".
The Newark Incident with the BDO's is as troubling. The TSA did NOTHING with the screeners, directors or the BDO's.
Accountable would have meant EWR should have gone down with some firings. HNL to me should have been squarely addressed to the local management NOT the individual screeners.
Your organization is not one that allows for reporting abuses by management and that is why you will always be reactive to these incidents and NEVER proactive.
How about waking up and those in DC and TSA upper command become accountable for their own actions.
Accountability is bogus at the TSA until you address the BDO issue at EWR. You PROMOTED the individual telling the BDO's to break TSA rules? Accountable, how? Shame no real management from TSA reads this blog - rose colored glasses must be in style.
Folks, let's face it...nearly every organization in the world has some level of corruption. Don't let a few bad apples prevent you from recognizing the thousands and thousands of TSA employees who have worked hard to keep our skies safe since 9/11.
Dear TSA: I'll keep sending this until you post it.
=============================
[[The search is not unreasonable]]
So you're actually admitting to not being able to read.
Good to know.
[[It is not unreasonable if there is implied consent ]]
"Implied consent" is another improper "interpretation" of the Constitution made necessary because the government didn't want to have to do things the right way when the easy way was so much ... easier.
[[There is no need for a warrant where there is consent to the search]]
I give no consent.
You and other police-statists may choose to invent "implied" consent, but that is your doing, not mine - or others'.
[[HUH???]]
You doubt me? Not wise, but okay.
If you wish to prove me wrong, then find it. In the Constitution, not in someone's rendering of the Constitution.
Otherwise you will have to content yourself with being a power-grasping police statist who got caught rationalizing.
[[Not necessary]]
Yes, it is.
The Constitution defines the power limits of our government. It is not the starting point of our government's power. If you think otherwise then you need to hie your butt back to civics class and get yourself a refresher.
Now, son, you and I can have a nice theoretical discussion on what is wise and prudent, or we can have a discussion on what the defined limitations of our government allow. If you want the theoretical discussion, you may very well find that I agree with you on most matters, and very closely to your position.
If, however, you wish to have a discussion on the defined limitations of our government and their policy implementations, then you will find that I am correct, that you are NOT correct, and you'll be left blustering profusely and sanctimoniously as you've been doing.
[[Don't let a few bad apples prevent you from recognizing the thousands and thousands of TSA employees who have worked hard to keep our skies safe since 9/11]]
That's just the thing: they don't.
TSA has stopped zero, zip, zilch, nada, bupkus in the way of air piracy or air sabotage during their history.
They find less than 40% of the bombs and guns security auditors test them with. A luggageless 25 y.o. Yemeni male with recent travel to Abbotabad Pakistan rings fewer bells of suspicion to TSA than an 80 y.o. Iowa granny with a tube of Fixodent in her purse.
TSA's job is not to make our [or anyone's] skies safe. They are there to annoy and pester the flying public because a large %age of Americans believe that if we are annoyed and pestered that "they are doing something".
"JustSayin said...
Folks, let's face it...nearly every organization in the world has some level of corruption. Don't let a few bad apples prevent you from recognizing the thousands and thousands of TSA employees who have worked hard to keep our skies safe since 9/11.
June 16, 2011 1:52 AM"
That's just funny. Considering the TSA's record of failure.
I'm just sayin.
JustSayin said...
Folks, let's face it...nearly every organization in the world has some level of corruption. Don't let a few bad apples prevent you from recognizing the thousands and thousands of TSA employees who have worked hard to keep our skies safe since 9/11.
June 16, 2011 1:52 AM
.............
Sorry NO.
TSA is so far past a few bad apples that it is clear that TSA has several issues that need addressing.
New senior leadership would be a good place to start.
JustSayin wrote...
Folks, let's face it...nearly every organization in the world has some level of corruption. Don't let a few bad apples prevent you from recognizing the thousands and thousands of TSA employees who have worked hard to keep our skies safe since 9/11.
So 99% of the TSA employees give the other 1% a bad name?
I'm trying to figure out which dictionary TSA uses to define accountability. TSA's definition of the word is certainly not anything I have every heard of.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8195687
HOUSTON (KTRK) -- A TSA agent at Bush Intercontinental Airport was arrested on Thursday amid accusations of theft.
"TSA holds its workforce to the highest professional standards and we act swiftly to end the federal careers of those who do not abide by these standards. The actions of this officer in no way reflect on the nearly 50,000 Transportation Security Officers who work tirelessly to protect the traveling public."
......................
Perhaps one bad apple would not relect on other TSA employees but when the whole apple orchard has nothing but rotten apples it certainly reflects on all TSA employees.
Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
Ayn R. Key said...
So 99% of the TSA employees give the other 1% a bad name?
While there are certainly some criticisms that are valid, to say that 99% of TSA's workforce are bad apples is pretty silly.
If that were the case, no one would ever travel, and the TSA would be dissolved.
"The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11."
-----------------------------------
Actually the TSA has failed in that department. I should actually get all the credit. Every morning I do a special dance and make a sacrifice to the Lords of the Sky. That is what is keeping America's skies safe, not the TSA.
:)
AYn said:
"Ayn R. Key says:
Why? The TSA is their biggest victory."
no turning the American public against the govt is their biggest victory. you are doing exactly what bin laden wanted.
rb said:
"Sorry NO.
TSA is so far past a few bad apples that it is clear that TSA has several issues that need addressing.
New senior leadership would be a good place to start."
please provide some statistics to support your case. how many tsa personel are there? how many of those have been called "bad apples"? please compare them to other organizations such as congress. id like to see what the percentages say. lets get some hard evidence before we get on our high hogs AGAIN!
good thing that LAW enforcement agencies dont make as many mistakes as tsa.
"JustSayin said...
Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
June 17, 2011 12:32 AM"
Really? The TSA by their own reports continues to fail during their testing. I also believe it was TSORon who stated that TSA's job was NOT to stop terrorists so this should come as no surprise.
Every attempted act of supposed terror has been stopped by the passengers and flight crew.
If the TSA ever actually caught a supposed terrorist I'm sure they would be yelling it to the heavens to make their jobs seem relevant. They are however very good at finding things that are of no consequence to security and harassing the flying public at large. After all they are now the most hated government agency of the United States.
Just sayin
If we want to go down that road, JustSayin, then the paperweight on my desk has stopped every single elephant in the world from trampling through my office.
How accountable? How well trained and disciplined to strictly adhere to and enforce policy?
Instead of looking for threats to safety, TSA agents actively looked for people likely to qualify for additional screening for matters completely unrelated to actual airline security.
In doing so, they failed to do their actual job. But at least we know that if profiling can be sold as a benefit to them in some way, the TSA is quite willing to do it.
"The report, which was ordered by Newark’s former TSA director in the wake of complaints from BDOs, said passengers found to have lapsed visas or expired passports would be referred for additional screening or turned over to immigration officials. It was an easy way, the report said, for the behavior detection unit to boost its referrals and appear productive.
The group of managers and BDOs who engaged in racial profiling were dubbed "the Great Mexican Hunters" by other TSA employees at the airport."
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/house_homeland_security_commit.html
It's like there is an active bottom-of-barrel competition going on among federal agencies. The ATF is arming cartels and the TSA is playing ICE in order to goose numbers.
Many people in my state (Iowa) are now in an uproar over the Department of Homeland Security and TSA doing one of their little VIPR drills in a Des Moines Greyhound bus station.
I read this in the news today:
"A TSA spokesperson said the agency has organized these VIPR operations hundreds of times in the past year in Iowa. The operations can be public like at the bus station or less conspicuous, like at a train yard."
HUNDREDS of times? How in the heck much is this costing taxpayers??? My opinion -- TSA has WAY too much of our money.
In light of this posting on "accountability," I would like to see TSA address the report of "Mexican hunters" at Newark. Is it really the TSA's claim that the kind of people who could be so stupid and crass to engage in this sort of behavior can actually be "retrained" and transformed into human lie detectors?
Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
______________________
The last figure that was leaked to the public is that TSA had a 70% failure rate at stopping illegal contraband from boarding aircraft. (The TSA admitted to this AND they haven't released any updated figures. I'm guessing if those figures had improved ANY, they would have been racing to release them to the public.) In December 2010 John Pistole admitted that at some airports EVERY test gun, knife and bomb part made it through airport security.
Read the Jan 2011 article at "The Economist" titled "What's the TSA's Current Failure Rate" and tell me again that you think this is a successful organization.
JustSayin said...
"Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
The TSA is so good that they've also managed to keep Britain's skies safe, Canada's skies safe, France's skies safe, Germany's skies safe, Italy's skies safe, etc, etc.
The reality is that it's my good luck charm that keeps skies all over the world safe.
If you don't believe me, prove your position that the TSA keeps America's skies safe.
Anonymous said:
"no turning the American public against the govt is their biggest victory. you are doing exactly what bin laden wanted."
American's have a duty to "turn against" the government when it is infringing on God-given liberties, just as we did for slavery, civil rights and, now, the TSA.
JustSayin said...
"Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11."
June 17, 2011 12:32 AM"
Anonymous said...
"Really?"
You bet! Because of TSA's constant vigilance and hard work, no planes have been brought down on US soil from terrorism since 9/11.
Thank you, TSA, for helping to keep our skies safe!
I am beginning to believe that the TSA needs to change the meaning of it's acronym to "Troubling Security Accident" or similar. It seems like every day I hear something about some TSO doing something illegal, immoral, or just simply of questionable judgement.
Please, if the powers that be actually believe in what the TSA is supposed to be doing, FIX the problems. Actually THINK like security focused organization instead of one trying to expand its funding.
This means:
- Job Rotation
Don't let someone 'build an empire'.
- Seperation of Duties
One office requests, a different office approves, a third orders, and then payment is made.
- Two Person Integrity
No single set of hands has control over the 'cookie jar'.
- Unannounced on-site verification.
Trust but verify.
- Training Audits
Verify then trust.
I am tired of seeing an agency that is supposed to be doing a job failing miserably at it.
anon said:
"If the TSA ever actually caught a supposed terrorist I'm sure they would be yelling it to the heavens to make their jobs seem relevant. They are however very good at finding things that are of no consequence to security and harassing the flying public at large. After all they are now the most hated government agency of the United States."
perhaps and perhaps not. maybe they have caught some terrorists and are keeping it out of the public eye so that it doesnt create a stir in the public. perhaps they dont want the public to know so that it doesnt keep people from flying. tsa is the most hated govt agency cause they invade peoples space and is one of the most public entities. im sure that if you took a poll around tax time the irs would regain its place as number 1. btw how many terrorists did the private companies stop?
If the TSA ever actually caught a supposed terrorist I'm sure they would be yelling it to the heavens to make their jobs seem relevant. They are however very good at finding things that are of no consequence to security and harassing the flying public at large. After all they are now the most hated government agency of the United States.
People who hate the IRS owe back taxes, people who hate the police are criminals. People who hate TSA have something to hide. GROW UP!
JustSayin said...
Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
This statement is based on what evidence? Please list all the terrorists that have been captured by the TSA.
Maybe the terrorists have just moved on to different targets. They aren't required to only attack planes.
maybe they have caught some terrorists and are keeping it out of the public eye so that it doesnt create a stir in the public.
___________
With all due respect, the possibility of that is zero.
The only thing TSA has been successful at is getting people to surrender their rights as private citizens.
JustSayin said...
Record of failure?! The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
Anonymous said...
"This statement is based on what evidence? Please list all the terrorists that have been captured by the TSA.
The TSA's job is to keep planes in the air. They've been successful with that mission since 9/11.
JustSayin said...
The TSA's been totally successful at keeping America's skies safe since 9/11.
The TSA's job is to keep planes in the air. They've been successful with that mission since 9/11.
~~~~
Could that 'success' also be attributed to any number of other factors?
I have been equally successful in keeping the sky's terrorist-free since September 11. I know because all the planes that have gone up have come down as planned since I have been paying attention.
Should I point out the obvious with the Underwear Bomber not being stopped by TSA and the only reason that terrorist attempt didn't bring down a plane was due to vigilant passengers and an idiot of a terrorist?
If you want to give the credit to the TSA, that's fine with me. I'm not going to do the same.
side-note..... my captcha phrase for this comment is "wryou" which makes me giggle. Wryou equally responsible for keeping the skies safe since Sept 11?
JustSayin said...
The TSA's job is to keep planes in the air. They've been successful with that mission since 9/11.
Please provide evidence that planes staying in the air is a result of the TSA's actions.
Just because two things happened at the same time isn't proof one caused the other.
Real proof requires examples of terrorist plots that were stopped by the TSA.
Anonymous said...
"A TSA spokesperson said the agency has organized these VIPR operations hundreds of times in the past year in Iowa. The operations can be public like at the bus station or less conspicuous, like at a train yard."
I guess the TSA hasn't figured out yet that buses and trains run on the ground. You don't actually have to be on board if you want to blow one up. Just stand somewhere along the route.
Sometimes the level of stupidity shown by the TSA just takes your breath away.
Of course the TSA isn't solely responsible for the success of its mission. Vigilant flight crew and passengers also deserve credit (as with the failed underwear bomber)in addition to local and federal agencies and international allies.
The TSA reacted swiftly to the failed underwear bomber attempt by adding new layers of security, as they would with any unforseen tactic.
The proposed termination of somewhere between 30 – 42 employees, depending on what you read is extremely odd. Are we to believe that this many officers & managers worked together to purposely not screen bags and only during the 1st shift? TSA Senior Managers and Investigators are looking at this with too narrow of a scope.
Was this team properly resourced (equipment & staffing)?
Who assesses the resource requirements?
Did they make recommendations that would impact HNL? How many? When? Were they implemented?
What did the Government Accountability Office recommend in GAO-07-299? Can the TSA prove they did this, effectively?
Whose job was it to provide the resources?
Did any significant changes occur to your Standard Operating Procedure prior to all this. If so, who assesses the impact?
You need to look at what’s going on at your HQ.
Goodluck. Mahalo
At Seattle/Tacoma airport on June 19th at 8:40 PM, only one TSA staffer assigned to check passports & boarding passes with approximately 200 passengers waiting.
anon said:
"I guess the TSA hasn't figured out yet that buses and trains run on the ground. You don't actually have to be on board if you want to blow one up. Just stand somewhere along the route.
Sometimes the level of stupidity shown by the TSA just takes your breath away."
lol right back at you. you do realize that the "t" stands for transportation right? just because the tsa only does airport security now, it has the means to expand to other area of transportation such as rails and ports/ships.
These comments that I read on this blog make me laugh. Nearly all are completely opinion based, or based on false numbers, stories of misinformation, or just plain arrogance.
How many terrorists have TSA stopped? PROVE IT?
The purpose of many security agencies is to DETER possible criminal activity, or in TSA's case, terrorist activity. How many terrorist attacks has TSA deterred? If you say none, PROVE IT.
Keep quoting the 4th Amendment all you want, the fact of the matter is that many US courts have determined that blanket Administrative Searches, as well as implied consent allow TSA to perform their searches at federal checkpoints.
Give the book entitled 'Unreasonable Searches and Seizures: Rights and Liberties Under the Law' by Otis H. Stephens, and Richard A. Glenn a good read, maybe it will serve as a great educational tool, better than these blogs, or Wikipedia, like I see many commentators basing their opinions on.
Someone said,
"Passengers have waived no rights. Screeners are allowed to do a limited, targeted search to discover weapons and/or explosives. That's it. Screeners are not allowed under the 4th Amendment to do a dragnet search for things that may be illegal (i.e. drugs) but aren't otherwise harmful to a plane."
You would be correct, that is why screeners do not actively search for drugs. If it is painfully obvious that a passenger has drugs strapped or hidden about their body however, a screener, just like any other law abiding citizen, may report this passenger to the proper authorities.
Someone said...
"Should I point out the obvious with the Underwear Bomber not being stopped by TSA and the only reason that terrorist attempt didn't bring down a plane was due to vigilant passengers and an idiot of a terrorist?"
The underwear bomber was not screened AT ALL by the TSA, because his flight did not originate from the United States. So there was no failure on TSA's part. I think it says something that all attempted airline bombings since 9/11 have originated from outside of the United States, not from within.
Differences in opinion, and beliefs will be voiced no matter what, that is the basis of any true society. However, to insult, degrade or threaten violence against those you have differences with, is never acceptable.
Instead of tossing around insults, or complaints on TSA policies, how about we come up with REALISTIC IDEAS on how to remove one policy, and replace it with one that may work better.
Finally to end my rant, I see many quotes from Ben Franklin over, and over again. Here is one from another great guy, John F. Kennedy who said,
"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."
I think many people on here would benefit from those words.
Anonymous said....
"good thing that LAW enforcement agencies dont make as many mistakes as tsa."
I hope this wasn't a serious statement. Law enforcement agencies have made more, and by far much worse mistakes than any TSA has so far.
Mistakes will be made in any department of the government, or any criminal justice agency, because they are ran by human beings, and human beings make mistakes.
Unless Skynet takes over... then we'll really have something to complain about.
Two articles worth reading today - Google them:
"Surprise! TSA is Searching Your Subway, Truck, Ferry, Bus and Plane"
and
"TSA Now Storming Public Places 8000 times a year"
For those of you who used the argument that if you don't like TSA, just don't fly -- welcome to the expansion of TSA. Did you really think they would stop at airports? Not when there's this much taxpayer money to be had.
Still waiting for TSA's response to the brave "Mexican hunters" of Newark... Until then, I'll assume that your agency is only concerned with accountability when it serves your twisted PR goals. You disgust me.
@JustSayin: The TSA's job is to keep planes in the air. They've been successful with that mission since 9/11.
------
Would you like to buy this rock I keep on my desk? It keeps tigers away. Now, you might be skeptical that it actually works as advertised. It's proven rather simply. I've never been attacked by a tiger. So it has to be working as advertised, right?
Quoted:
""The report, which was ordered by Newark’s former TSA director in the wake of complaints from BDOs, said passengers found to have lapsed visas or expired passports would be referred for additional screening or turned over to immigration officials. It was an easy way, the report said, for the behavior detection unit to boost its referrals and appear productive."
--------------------
So they did have "lapsed visas or expired passports" - Gee, isn't that the definition of being in this country illegally?
So, TSA was actually right to report these people to immigration.
What's wrong with that?
highest ethical standards and will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public."
That is a joke... Your system was broken yet no terrorist act was committed... You guys are yet to catch a single terrorist even when your system works... The TSA reminds me of Reno 911... A ridiculous parody of what security should be.... Another hilarious bit is that you guys are only firing these people for breaking the law when regular citizens would be arrested if they broke the rules in the TSA lines.... I love a good double standard....
JustSayin said...
The TSA reacted swiftly to the failed underwear bomber attempt by adding new layers of security, as they would with any unforseen tactic.
Two problems.
First, if "putting a bomb under your clothes" is an "unforeseen tactic" then they aren't too bright because it isn't that hard to figure out that someone will try that.
Second, the new "layers of security" still do a pretty poor job of detecting bombs under clothes.
Anonymous said:
"lol right back at you. you do realize that the "t" stands for transportation right? just because the tsa only does airport security now, it has the means to expand to other area of transportation such as rails and ports/ships".
No, back at you. By what right does the TSA inspect intrastate transportation, for instance?
Uninformed people will lead to the loss of our freedoms.
JustSayin said:
"The TSA's job is to keep planes in the air. They've been successful with that mission since 9/11."
Actually, that's the airline's and the FAA's mission. What made you think this is the TSA's responsibility?
"JustSayin....
Of course the TSA isn't solely responsible for the success of its mission. Vigilant flight crew and passengers also deserve credit (as with the failed underwear bomber)in addition to local and federal agencies and international allies.
The TSA reacted swiftly to the failed underwear bomber attempt by adding new layers of security, as they would with any unforseen tactic.
June 19, 2011 9:23 PM"
Really?
It took almost a year for the TSA to roll out the enhanced pat-down, millimeter wave, and back-scatter machines at a laughably useful level.
Yours and TSA's definition of swiftly appears to be different than virtually everyone else.
I'm just sayin.
Amazing to see the level of accountability demanded of TSA. Not that I support the actions in HI or those in EWR. But, in all fairness is there an institution, group, agency, or corporation that does not deal with employees not following the rules, misusing authority, breaking the law, etc? I mean really. We have had spies at the highest levels of gov, look at Enron, hell look at the same congress that it took days before they really started pressuring Anthony Weiner to step down and even then it was because it was causing them pain, not that it should just be.
As for TSA and these screeners many say just fire them. Well folks...welcome to the world of a union and welcome to the fair labor standards act and welcome to the management employees having MSPB rights. Like it or not if TSA or any other government agency does not exactly follow the rules in the end the cases are overturned and the employees are made whole to include all back pay and benefits plus set up for a lifetime of retaliation claims. It stinks but is the system all government must live within. I have been a TSA employee since 2002, both at HQ and in the field. I have routinely seen thousands of extra hours worked by persons both uniformed and in suites which were well outside their "paid" duties. In few cases was OT requested. However, we will never see anyone recognizing that but will always see the undesirables in both TSA and all of these other groups.
In my opinion the employees in HI, if they did what was put forward, should lose their jobs now. However, I also know that for many who simply want to be angry a few bad apples will spoil the bushel. TSA is one of the few agencies or businesses I have seen who routinely send their bad apples to jail when they can.
Still waiting for the post addressing the brave "Mexican hunters" of Newark.
But while I'm waiting, I'd just like to thank you: you managed to bring both my wife and my sister to the brink of tears this weekend with your ludicrous, patently unconstitutional rub-down (it's not a pat-- it's a rub) searches. That made me feel so much safer.
It seems like TSA is set up to fail.
Terrorist will always find a way to do something.Its just to many possible targets out there to protect.You protect one target and terrorist move to another unprotected target.
I believe having good reliable intelligence information is the best way to catch a terrorist before they have a chance to attack.
"Keep quoting the 4th Amendment all you want, the fact of the matter is that many US courts have determined that blanket Administrative Searches, as well as implied consent allow TSA to perform their searches at federal checkpoints."
------------------------------------------
No court has ruled on the constitutionality of the intense rub-downs that are being used every day across the country. If you suggest that a court has certified that this policy is constitutional, you are either lying or misinformed. Furthermore, courts have not endorsed "blanket" administrative searches; on the contrary, where administrative searches have been approved, they have been strictly limited in scope and intent.
Now I'll tell you what my REALISTIC proposal for airport security would be: I would do the exact same thing that I'm doing to protect myself from bricks or other pieces of facade that fall off of buildings. I would do the same thing I do to protect myself from other drivers who might have firearms on the road. Why is it that everyone seems to view the incredibly unlikely prospect of dying in a terrorist attack on commercial aviation as something completely unacceptable while at the same time accepting a multitude of similar risks in every other area of their life.
Lastly, re: the Kennedy quote: I really don't think he was talking about the all-protecting police state of the future, though I suppose you could read it in that light.
Anonymous said...
@JustSayin: The TSA's job is to keep planes in the air. They've been successful with that mission since 9/11.
------
Would you like to buy this rock I keep on my desk? It keeps tigers away. Now, you might be skeptical that it actually works as advertised. It's proven rather simply. I've never been attacked by a tiger. So it has to be working as advertised, right?
----------------------------------------
Anonymous, I'd like to buy that rock.
I'll be amazed if this passes the TSA merry band of censors, but it's too important not to try.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/06/tsa_now_storming_public_places_8000_times_a_tear.html
TSA Now Storming Public Places 8,000 Times a Year
The TSA clearly intends for these out-of-nowhere swarms by its officers at community transit centers, bus stops and public events to become a routine and accepted part of American life.
Every attempted hijack since 9/11, from the shoe-bomber to the knicker-bomber, has been thwarted by the passengers. The TSA has slept through every single one of them.
The best thing you can say about the TSA is that they’re a waste of seven billion bucks a year. They’re training us to accept police state tactics by cramming their hands down our children’s pants. And now they’re branching out from the airports into bus stations, subways, sporting events, and Pistole only knows what’s next.
Abolish the TSA now, before it's too late. If it isn'ttoo late already.
Anonymous said...
The new "layers of security" still do a pretty poor job of detecting bombs under clothes.
Really?! Since the body scanners have been put in place, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
@Anon: "The underwear bomber was not screened AT ALL by the TSA, because his flight did not originate from the United States. So there was no failure on TSA's part. I think it says something that all attempted airline bombings since 9/11 have originated from outside of the United States, not from within."
Let's take a look at this. This is common diatribe and while this appears true on the surface, there's more to it than this.
The USG requires that all planes entering US airspace be screened to TSA standards. If they aren't, they're not permitted to land in US airspace.
While it may not have been a TSA person screening the underwear bomber, they WERE screening him to TSA's standards.
"Finally to end my rant, I see many quotes from Ben Franklin over, and over again. Here is one from another great guy, John F. Kennedy who said,
"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were."
I think many people on here would benefit from those words."
Is this why DHS was found to be hiring science fiction writers as consultants?
There's a difference between thinking outside the box and pushing Hollywood and science fiction and calling it security.
Earl
Given that the TSA is already beginnning to compromise its policy when it comes to children, there is a small glimmer of hope for the sane among us who would still like the option to fly.
Anonymous said...
I believe having good reliable intelligence information is the best way to catch a terrorist before they have a chance to attack.
You got that right. The credit for stopping terrorists belongs to the military, CIA, FBI and other law enforcement agencies. The TSA is just a useless decoration.
anon said:
"Yours and TSA's definition of swiftly appears to be different than virtually everyone else."
its the govt, that is pretty quick...
anon said:
"No, back at you. By what right does the TSA inspect intrastate transportation, for instance?
Uninformed people will lead to the loss of our freedoms."
you might want to check into the scope of the tsa when it was created by former pres bush. ive seen tsa at the subways, trains, and ports. they often support and are supported by other govt agencies in various screening outside of airports.
Bob, speaking of TSA Accountability, TSA states that a person can request private screening in order to preserve their privacy. In fact this is one of the main privacy protections TSA provides to travelers.
In the reverse if a person does not want a private screening will TSA conduct a "Resolution Pat Down" in public and if not why not?
No claim can be made of protecting the privacy of the person should they request a public screening.
Does not an Administrative Search require visibility to the public to be considered an Administrative Search?
Is TSA violating the tenets of the Administrative Search and not being accountable to the public, the United States and the Constitution?
JustSayin': "Really?! Since the body scanners have been put in place, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. As many have said, it could be my magic rock preventing underwear bombers. No underwear bombers have been on board planes since I started using my magic rock. And I know it works because they're haven't been any.
Circular logic doesn't work.
However, Adam Savage from Mythbusters got thru the scanner with 12" razor blades.
A TSA agent was able to get a gun thru the body scanner MULTIPLE TIMES at DFW by hiding it in her underwear.
A man got a .40 caliber pistol on a plane at IAH. He went thru the scanner. He was "clean" but they missed the gun in the bag. Additionally, the failure rate is estimated to be at about 70%.
Rep. Mica also has seen classified briefings showing that the failure rate is high and unacceptable. TSA also claimed that they've only found 200 "prohibited, illegal, or dangerous" items since January 2010.
So how many of those were things like toothpaste? We already know a ton is getting thru. If we take the 70% failure rate at face value, we're looking at nearly 500 items missed that could bring down a plane.
Can you really tell me with a straight face that these things are effective and keeping us safe?
Al
TSA'S ACCOUNTABILITY, I-F THEY'RE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT IT, IS SURELY BEST-SERVED RIGHT H-E-R-E, UP FRONT, AND IN THE FACE OF THE PUBLIC THEY SERVE! Surely, the original intention in setting up this site was precisely that. Because I'm new to this site and hoped that my own post would get a 'fair shot' at being seen, I've first sifted through the comments posted both here and on the site to which TSA apparently relegates its higher-volume and most distressing posts. Sadly, someone in TSA decided to set up the 'outpost' site for its most disappointing and negative commentary; hopefully with the intent of buying themselves time toward addressing and solving same. As though the multiple rules governing all posts, and having one's posts edited and 'approved' by its blog site manager weren't discouragements enough, but then adding insult to injury (what we're all primarily complaining about), TSA's sister-outpost site was launched! Well, I am not discouraged, because I've read (here) about what went wrong--in Honolulu--so the TSA seems to be on track, and facing its formidable task of righting some wrongs! Also, because I have a total knee implant, I am now forever subjected to repeated screenings and pat-downs at any and all airports I travel through...Oh, happy day! I am discerning enough not to implicate any TSA employees, but simply stating my repeated screening experiences with them--at no less than four airports where these events have transpired; JFK,LGA, Salt Lake City, UT. and San Diego, CA., not unsubstantiated, by the way. I've reported these incidents at the sites, and at the times they happened. So, here goes: I'm sick and tired of my personal items disappearing during the screening process at airports. Many, many items of mine have disappeared during the screening process, either while I was being patted down, pulled aside, distracted, and told to wait--and ONLY during the time my items were on the conveyor belt and in the trays provided. None of these events were ever resolved, none of the items were ever found, located or returned! Things are just as discouraging with checked luggage; I rarely return home without feeling violated, because again I've found all my items thrashed about in my luggage and one of those TSA paper notices within, stating they've again rummaged through my contents. Just this week, once again my 'I love NY' charm on a chain on my luggage handle was CUT OFF; with the chain left dangling. I'm a 70-year-old female cancer patient, with a knee implant. I can't tell you (can I?) the amount of time wasted working me and my luggage 'over' at the airports in this country! Bet the TSA won't allow this on THIS SITE! (We're in for some real rule changers if they do; in which case, "Thank you, God"!)
Here's an idea--Why not restrict your 'Rules' for posting ANY comment on your Blog(s) to: Please address your comments to TSA TOPIC only. Language is restricted to The First Amendment/Freedom of Speech rights, and we will not publish blogs containing vulgarity (this covers ALL offensive terms, doesn't it?), use of any TSA employee name(s), ethnic/racial/religious slurs, spam, and/or personal or commercial advertisements/ promotions. Clearly this site is for use of both positive and/or negative commentary for the general public while in the care of the TSA. (Relegating 'edited' commentary, AFTER YOU'VE EDITED THEM would then be a refusal of First Amendment Rights, would it not?) What puts the TSA above these rights, when the media of the world must abide by that codicil? NO newspaper in the U.S.A. relegates 'chosen' unfavorable 'Letters to the Editor' to a different page (or site, in your case). They publish their readers' responses on ONE page (one site) only! If this is truly a site for the public's use, then let us (ALL) use it!!
Al Ames said...
JustSayin': "Really?! Since the body scanners have been put in place, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
Correlation doesn't equal causation. As many have said, it could be my magic rock preventing underwear bombers. No underwear bombers have been on board planes since I started using my magic rock. And I know it works because they're haven't been any.
Circular logic doesn't work.
However, Adam Savage from Mythbusters got thru the scanner with 12" razor blades.
A TSA agent was able to get a gun thru the body scanner MULTIPLE TIMES at DFW by hiding it in her underwear.
A man got a .40 caliber pistol on a plane at IAH. He went thru the scanner. He was "clean" but they missed the gun in the bag. Additionally, the failure rate is estimated to be at about 70%.
Rep. Mica also has seen classified briefings showing that the failure rate is high and unacceptable. TSA also claimed that they've only found 200 "prohibited, illegal, or dangerous" items since January 2010.
So how many of those were things like toothpaste? We already know a ton is getting thru. If we take the 70% failure rate at face value, we're looking at nearly 500 items missed that could bring down a plane.
Can you really tell me with a straight face that these things are effective and keeping us safe?
Al
June 23, 2011 4:45 PM
Have you heard the phrase: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet?
I'm not certain how you can argue with the plain facts: since the underwear bomber attempt, and the introduction of body scanners at US airports, no further incidents have taken place on TSA's watch, period.
JustSayin said...
Since the body scanners have been put in place, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
Actually, since the beginning of time, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
(Hint: the "Underwear Bomber" was flying into the USA, and didn't go thru the TSA screening. So any TSA screening, even current day nudie-scopes, would not have caught him anyway)
Oh, and think about this: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/TSA-Agent-Slips-Through-DFW-Body-Scanner-With-a-Gun-116497568.html "An undercover TSA agent was able to get through security at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport with a handgun during testing of the enhanced-imaging body scanners, according to a high-ranking, inside source at the Transportation Security Administration.
The source said the undercover agent carried a pistol in her undergarments when she put the body scanners to the test. The officer successfully made it through the airport's body scanners every time she tried, the source said."
-so they can't even find GUNS (which a metal detector would at least trigger on), much less underwear bombs.
JustSayin said...
Really?! Since the body scanners have been put in place, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
There has only been one underwear bomber *ever* with or without body scanners. The real reason is that it's a stupid idea done by a stupid person. From what I've read, even if he managed to set it off it wouldn't have brought the plane down. At worst it would have made a small hole in the side and killed a few people sitting near him.
He could have killed more people in the airport lobby with a handgun.
JustSayin said:
"I'm not certain how you can argue with the plain facts: since the underwear bomber attempt, and the introduction of body scanners at US airports, no further incidents have taken place on TSA's watch, period."
Perhaps the terrorists behind the underwear bomb learned something from their effort?
It was a DUD, a failure, a waste of their time and money, except that it had the collateral side effect of making TSA respond with unpopular draconian searches (of people traveling within the US, even though the bomber was flying into the US) and waste lots of money on dubious technology.
Anonymous:
(Hint: the "Underwear Bomber" was flying into the USA, and didn't go thru the TSA screening. So any TSA screening, even current day nudie-scopes, would not have caught him anyway)
Oh, and think about this: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/TSA-Agent-Slips-Through-DFW-Body-Scanner-With-a-Gun-116497568.html "An undercover TSA agent was able to get through security at Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport with a handgun during testing of the enhanced-imaging body scanners, according to a high-ranking, inside source at the Transportation Security Administration.
The source said the undercover agent carried a pistol in her undergarments when she put the body scanners to the test. The officer successfully made it through the airport's body scanners every time she tried, the source said."
-so they can't even find GUNS (which a metal detector would at least trigger on), much less underwear bombs.
Again, you can't argue with the plain facts: since the TSA's implemented body scanners, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
John Pistole himself admitted in December of 2010 that at some airports EVERY test gun, knife and bomb part made it through security.
According to the article, the results of TSA tests were so bad they classified the information, but sources told ABC they had a failure rate of roughly 70%.
How can anyone justify over $52 billion dollars in tax money being spent and this is the result? How can you say TSA is stopping anything negative from happening in airports?
Read the article at ABC news - TSA: Some Airports Failed All Screening Tests - Dec. 16, 2010
JustSayin: "Have you heard the phrase: Don't believe everything you read on the Internet?"
So are you saying that major news outlets are lying? Are you saying Congressman Mica is lying? What evidence do you have to disprove what they're saying?
Sorry, you need to give me some concrete proof. It's clear you didn't read the links.
"I'm not certain how you can argue with the plain facts: since the underwear bomber attempt, and the introduction of body scanners at US airports, no further incidents have taken place on TSA's watch, period."
And you don't seem to get the flaw in your logic. Are you aware of the logical fallacy of
false cause?
I'm citing an academic source from the University of Tennessee. But since that is on the Internet, does that mean I shouldn't trust it?
Let's take a look at it. From the link: "Improperly concluding that one thing is a cause of another. The Fallacy of Non Causa Pro Causa is another name for this fallacy."
You have given no evidence that there have been no underwear bombs directly because of the body scanners. You don't take into account that it could be that no one has tried since, that law enforcement has disrupted a similar plot, that terrorists have moved onto other means, or my magic rock is keeping them safe. You have no proof to support your claim. Correlation does not equal causation.
However, I've provided evidence that the scanners have failed. The fact that TSA has only found only 200 illegal, prohibited or items since January 2010 (by their own admission, if you had read the link, or should we assume TSA is lying because that was online too?)
If we want to take it farther, for nearly 50 years of passenger screening, we didn't have an underwear bomber. The vast majority of that time was before the body scanners. The underwear bomber can easily chalked up as a one-off and due to human error - something that will exist in any system. How do you explain that they didn't happen under previous screening methods? Luck? No one thought of it? No one attempted it? If underwear bombs were such a threat, why weren't planes falling out of the sky before the body scanners?
If you're going to cite facts, you need to provide real facts and back them up. Right now, we only have your opinion on some things that have strong evidence that they're NOT related. Gotta do better than that if you want to be taken seriously.
Al
Why did TSA go to all the trouble of entrapping this employee? Real law enforcement seems to be getting real outlaws without trickery.
Some more TSA
Accountability!!
Recent TSA Arrest at LAX Continues Theft Trend
Thefts by TSA agents at airports around the country seem to be monthly stories.
By Kevin Patra
| Friday, Jun 24, 2011 | Updated 6:19 PM PDT
Accountability... really? We promote people who fail re-cert and red team tests
I find it interesting that posters who are determined to bash the TSA spend so much time on here, *supporting* the TSA site.
Guess you folks really like TSA after all!
I sure do.
Thank you TSA for doing such a stellar job protecting us passengers!
RB said...
Some more TSA
Accountability!!
Recent TSA Arrest at LAX Continues Theft Trend
Thefts by TSA agents at airports around the country seem to be monthly stories.
By Kevin Patra
| Friday, Jun 24, 2011 | Updated 6:19 PM PDT
Don't let a few bad apples hinder the fact that there are thousands of honest, hardworking TSA employees who have the utmost integrity.
All organizations have this issue.
The TSA works swiftly with law enforcement to punish any violators to the fullest extent.
Accountability TSA Style:
“TSA cannot exempt any group from screening because we know from intelligence that there are terrorists out there that would then exploit that vulnerability,” she said.
Elderly woman asked to remove adult diaper during TSA search
June 25, 2011 11:09 AM
TSA says everyone must be screened equally and no one can be exempt, except TSA employees, airline employees, airport employees, airport contractors, Members of Congress, and many, many others.
Yet TSA has no problem humiliating a 95 year old lady who is barely able to walk because that person is a potential terrorist.
TSA Administrator Pistole, is this really the best you can do?
JustSayin said...
Again, you can't argue with the plain facts: since the TSA's implemented body scanners, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
June 24, 2011 11:00 AM
You can't argue with plain facts, either- since Marshall Thundering Herd beat the Ohio Bobcats 21-17 in the 2009 Little Caesars Pizza Bowl, there have been a grand total of 0 underwear bombers on US flights.
Does that mean Football is responsible for Keeping Our Skies Safe?? Of course not.
"Yet TSA has no problem humiliating a 95 year old lady who is barely able to walk because that person is a potential terrorist."
Think of how that show helped cow the other passengers into compliance. How many thought, "If they do this to helpless elderly people, what would they do to me if I don't obey?" Making example of people works well in group situations such as prisons, military training, schools. TSA proves it works at the airports.
Thank you TSA for doing such a stellar job protecting us passengers!
_____________________
In what universe is a 70% fail rate, (a 100% fail rate at some airports according to John Pistole himself), a "stellar job?"
JustSayin said...
RB said...
Some more TSA
Accountability!!
Don't let a few bad apples hinder the fact that there are thousands of honest, hardworking TSA employees who have the utmost integrity.
All organizations have this issue.
The TSA works swiftly with law enforcement to punish any violators to the fullest extent.
June 25, 2011 11:57 AM
Oh come on now, TSA is making the news weekly if not more often.
We are way past the point of a "few bad apples".
It's time for TSA to take action to clean up these problems.
A good first step would be supervision of TSA employes so the thieves can't steal 20~30 thousand bucks of goods from people who travel.
After that TSA can start working on the drug users, drug dealers, and other criminals that make up TSA.
JustSayin said...
The TSA works swiftly with law enforcement to punish any violators to the fullest extent.
Oh really?
Don't they only punish the ones that get caught?
How many thieves are still stealing from passengers, and have NOT yet been caught? I would guess quite a few.
And as to fullest extent, there are many instances where the violator did not get even close to the fullest allowable punishment. I also believe it is the court system, not law enforcement that deals with punishment, unless you call police brutality a form of punishment.
Dear Blogger Bob,
Please also respond to:
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/mother-41324-search-adult.html
This is something the TSA needs to address IMMEDIATELY.
What's your excuse this time? How do you live with yourself having to defend this?
Anonymous said...
It was a DUD, a failure, a waste of their time and money, except that it had the collateral side effect of making TSA respond with unpopular draconian searches (of people traveling within the US, even though the bomber was flying into the US) and waste lots of money on dubious technology.
That isn't a failure - it's a huge success.
The goal of a terrorist isn't just to kill a few people - it's to cause fear and economic harm. By that measure the underwear bomber did very well.
JustSayin said...
Don't let a few bad apples hinder the fact that there are thousands of honest, hardworking TSA employees who have the utmost integrity.
All organizations have this issue.
The difference is that most organizations don't require me to turn over my valuables and just trust that I will eventually get them back. They need to make more of an effort to monitor what their own people are doing. They need to try and prevent theft, not just react after it gets caught.
You wrote:
"We hold our workforce to the highest ethical standards and will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public."
But then you did:
95 year old, wheelchair bound, 104 pound woman with leukemia forced to remove adult diaper by TSA before being allowed to fly.
(http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/mother-41324-search-adult.html)
What is wrong with you people?
Anonymous said:
inspect intrastate transportation, for instance?
Uninformed people will lead to the loss of our freedoms."
you might want to check into the scope of the tsa when it was created by former pres bush. ive seen tsa at the subways, trains, and ports. they often support and are supported by other govt agencies in various screening outside of airports."
And you might want to check on the 10th Amendment.
Anonymous said:
"You would be correct, that is why screeners do not actively search for drugs. If it is painfully obvious that a passenger has drugs strapped or hidden about their body however, a screener, just like any other law abiding citizen, may report this passenger to the proper authorities."
Nice try but....no.
The screener could certainly do that. The Courts, on the other hand, will exclude that evidence. A government screener conducting a mandatory "administrative" seach is acting as an agent of the government.
According to JustSayin: Since 30+ TSA agents in Hawaii did not search any bags on who knows how many flights -- and none of those flights had a single incident, we can conclude that NOT having the TSA makes our flights safer.
Their lack of work, which is paid for by tax dollars, in fact proves they are not needed -- unless, of course, we want them digging through our bags and helping themselves to whatever belongings they think they deserve, which they apparently do more often than we think.
I can hardly wait to see how Blogger Bob is going to explain why a 95 year old woman who's dying of leukemia has to take off her adult diaper. Geriatric Diaper Terrorists Are Lurking Everywhere. What sort of bizarre country are you guys over at the TSA aiming for?
rb said:
"TSA says everyone must be screened equally and no one can be exempt, except TSA employees, airline employees, airport employees, airport contractors, Members of Congress, and many, many others.
Yet TSA has no problem humiliating a 95 year old lady who is barely able to walk because that person is a potential terrorist.
TSA Administrator Pistole, is this really the best you can do?"
yes rb as you one of the biggest advocates of defending the Constitution should realize that the tsa has to treat everyone the same. all men are created equal therefore all people are screened the same to protect everyone's rights. plain and simple
rb said:
"
TSA says everyone must be screened equally and no one can be exempt, except TSA employees, airline employees, airport employees, airport contractors, Members of Congress, and many, many others.
Yet TSA has no problem humiliating a 95 year old lady who is barely able to walk because that person is a potential terrorist.
TSA Administrator Pistole, is this really the best you can do?"
its a good think that we dont live in suadi arabia as if you belonged to the jewish religon then you wouldnt be allowed to fly into the country and delta airlines is supporting it. one of the companies that you graciious anti-tsa bloggers want to run security again. horray!
Hey Bob! where did you go? Heat a little too much for you? Guess TSA is starting to realize that you cant do an extensive search on 95 year old women without getting a little poop on your hands huh? What's next Bob, a pat down on a Miss USA, oh wait, already done that, how about a 6 year old? Done that too huh. Here's a novel idea, how about MUSLIM men between 16-45 years old? Noooooo. we can't do that right? it might be considered profiling, and we sure wouldn't want to profile anyone. That takes all of the fun out of touching boobs, and buns.
More on TSA Accountability or lack of:
TSA Claims that NIST tested the Strip Search Machines for radiation safety, but NIST says they did not.
NIST did not test AIT machines for Safety
So if TSA is all accountable and everything I have to wonder why TSA continual lies to the public about everything related to TSA.
Can you explain how this is accountable TSA Bob?
Anonymous said...
Thank you TSA for doing such a stellar job protecting us passengers!
_____________________
In what universe is a 70% fail rate, (a 100% fail rate at some airports according to John Pistole himself), a "stellar job?"
June 25, 2011 9:33 PM
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
A grand total of 0 terrorist attacks in US airspace since 9/11 and the formation of the TSA.
100% success rate.
Anonymous said...
JustSayin said...
Don't let a few bad apples hinder the fact that there are thousands of honest, hardworking TSA employees who have the utmost integrity.
All organizations have this issue.
The difference is that most organizations don't require me to turn over my valuables and just trust that I will eventually get them back. They need to make more of an effort to monitor what their own people are doing. They need to try and prevent theft, not just react after it gets caught.
June 26, 2011 9:39 AM
I know these stories can be frustrating. People who steal at their TSA jobs will get caught. Anyone who thinks they can get away it are total idiots.
Waiting for the note from Bob, telling us how all protocols were followed with the Old Lady and the diaper...
And at what point are people held accountable for forcing 95 year old women to remove adult diapers? I cannot believe the TSA is actually standing behind the people who did this. They should be fired immediately.
TSA makes elderly woman remove adult diaper - please explain (if possible...)
http://news.travel.aol.com/2011/06/26/tsa-pats-down-elderly-woman-removes-adult-diaper-video/
How's this for accountability? Makes me sick to think her husband might have been a World War II veteran...who had to fight the German Fascists.
Perhaps the VIPR teams can start doing home visits along side Hospice. That would be a real piece of PR...Your thoughts?
A woman has filed a complaint with federal authorities over how her elderly mother was treated at Northwest Florida Regional Airport last weekend.
Jean Weber of Destin filed a complaint with the Department of Homeland Security after her 95-year-old mother was detained and extensively searched last Saturday while trying to board a plane to fly to Michigan to be with family members during the final stages of her battle with leukemia.
Her mother, who was in a wheelchair, was asked to remove an adult diaper in order to complete a pat-down search.
“It’s something I couldn’t imagine happening on American soil,” Weber said Friday. “Here is my mother, 95 years old, 105 pounds, barely able to stand, and then this.”
Sari Koshetz, a spokeswoman for the Transportation Security Administration in Miami, said she could not comment on specific cases to protect the privacy of those involved.
“The TSA works with passengers to resolve any security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner,” she said.
Weber’s mother entered the airport’s security checkpoint in a wheelchair because she was not stable enough to walk through, Weber said.
Wheelchairs trigger certain protocols, including pat-downs and possible swabbing for explosives, Koshetz said.
“During any part of the process, if there is an alarm, then we have to resolve that alarm,” she said.
Weber said she did not know whether her mother had triggered an alarm during the 45 minutes they were detained.
She said her mother was first pulled aside into a glass-partitioned area and patted down. Then she was taken to another room to protect her privacy during a more extensive search, Weber said.
Weber said she sat outside the room during the search.
She said security personnel then came out and told her they would need for her mother to remove her Depends diaper because it was soiled and was impeding their search.
Weber wheeled her mother into a bathroom, removed her diaper and returned. Her mother did not have another clean diaper with her, Weber said.
Weber said she wished there were less invasive search methods for an elderly person who is unable to walk through security gates.
“I don’t understand why they have to put them through that kind of procedure,” she said.
Koshetz said the procedures are the same for everyone to ensure national security.
“TSA cannot exempt any group from screening because we know from intelligence that there are terrorists out there that would then exploit that vulnerability,” she said.
Weber filed a complaint through Northwest Florida Regional’s website. She said she received a response from a Homeland Security representative at the airport on Tuesday and spoke to that person on the phone Wednesday.
The representative told her that personnel had followed procedures during the search, Weber said.
“Then I thought, if you’re just following rules and regulations, then the rules and regulations need to be changed,” she said.
Weber said she plans to file additional complaints next week.
“I’m not one to make waves, but dadgummit, this is wrong. People need to know. Next time it could be you.”
I cannot believe that TSA is defending making a 95-year-old incapacitated cancer-striken woman remove her diaper. How degrading and humiliating!! Had she worn muslim clothing they wouldn't have done anything to her just to keep from getting charged with "profiling."
All I know is this. I have a soon-to-be 10 yo girl and she's already saying "is someone going to see me naked" at the airport. HUH? What child should have to worry about that!!!!???? I also have a friend whose daughter was so upset that she was "touched" at the airport by a man the girl was having nightmares and wouldn't even let her doctor do a physical. She was 8 and acting like a rape victim!
Thank you TSA for doing your job so well and terrorizing our children.
You can be darn sure that when we go on our vacation that my cellphone WILL be rolling the entire time. I don't care about myself, but you're not molesting my child in front of me.
Today, we delivered over thirty proposed letters of removal to employees implicated in the investigation (including two senior managers).
So this is accountability, TSA style? What is a "proposed letter of removal"? And now that those letters have been delivered, what is the process for taking action? For that matter, are you actually taking action against them, or merely conducting an "investigation" whose results will disappear into the TSA's black hole of secrecy?
From what I've read here, even TSA employees who are guilty of crimes are entitled to absolute privacy. That presumably means we will never know what, if anything, the TSA did to hold these thieves accountable. That's not accountability. It's the abuse of secrecy to EVADE accountability, which may be the only thing the TSA does with any consistency.
If we are indeed to believe Administrator Pistole's soothing lawyerly promises of "highest ethical standards," the accountability has to be PUBLIC.
The TSA must SHOW us they "will not tolerate employees who in any way compromise the security of the traveling public." They must pierce the veil of "privacy" and INFORM us of the SPECIFIC action they're taking against the thieves. They must SHOW us that (for example) the thieves were fired and referred to a federal prosecutor. If and when they're convicted, the Administrator needs to go on television and SHOW us what happens when a TSA employee betrays the public's trust.
It's not enough for some lawyers to issue a bureaucratic statement that some kind of action will be taken or that an "investigation" is being conducted, before drawing back the curtain of secrecy and reminding us to trust you, as always. As in all other cases where some TSA employee does something that can't be defended, I've seen nothing to indicate that the TSA even understands what ACCOUNTABILITY actually means.
So just how big an iceberg is under this tip?
TSA Nico, preaching all about TSA Accountability and then this story hits the news:
http://www.infowars.com/new-documents-prove-tsa-“mischaracterized”-safety-aspects-of-full-body-scanners/
"New Documents Prove TSA “Mischaracterized” Safety Aspects Of Full Body Scanners
Steve Watson
Infowars.com
June 27, 2011"
"Newly released internal government documents, obtained via the Freedom Of Information Act, reveal that the TSA, and specifically the head of the Department of Homeland Security, “publicly mischaracterized” the findings of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, in stating that NIST had positively confirmed the safety of full body scanners in tests."
How do you like your crow cooked Nico?
Nico's evasive post implies that this was just an isolated group of bad apples working one shift at one airport, a problem that was solved by months of "investigation" that led to giving them all "letters of removal." Since that has happened, and Administrator Pistole has issued an official statement about "ethical standards," full trust and confidence in the TSA is now restored. Case closed.
Unfortunately, even if the TSA informed us of SPECIFIC actions taken against the HNL thieves, it wouldn't be enough. They also need to tell us what SPECIFIC measures and changes to their procedures they will institute to PREVENT FUTURE OCCURRENCES of theft.
I think this isn't a case of "bad apples." Rather, there seem to be SYSTEMIC FAILURES at HNL, and probably at other airports, that allow TSA employees to abuse their position of trust and get away with committing theft. The TSA's all-pervasive secrecy that allows employees at all levels to evade accountability is probably a strong contributing factor.
Another factor is that the TSA defines "security" very narrowly, in terms of extremely rare acts of terrorism. Protecting passengers' belongings from theft (by TSA employees or others) is not part of that definition. They even design screening procedures (particularly AIT scanning) that prevent passengers from protecting their belongings at checkpoints, and then ignore such concerns when people raise them.
The TSA's response to this incident confirms the frequent criticism that they are a purely reactive agency. Whether it's adding new hassles in reaction to a failed plot, or covering their posteriors when TSA employees get caught doing something their bosses and propagandists can't defend, they're reacting while ignoring the systemic failures that caused the problems.
This particular reaction is not "Accountability." It's just another example of how the TSA continually evades accountability, and why they cannot be trusted.
you work for us- you do not lord over us though you try to in the name of security. I ask you this: who protects the law abiding citizens of this country from you?
I promise that the constitution will and upon the 2012 election your tyrany will end. Your condescending form answers will end and you will be defunded then if not sooner. The rights of the people will prevail over those whose wish to remove said rights.
@JustSayin': "I know these stories can be frustrating. People who steal at their TSA jobs will get caught. Anyone who thinks they can get away it are total idiots."
Let's take what you just said right before that:
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."
Fair enough. I don't believe you.
Earl
Don't buy media hype.
The TSA investigated the 95 year old passenger in question and concluded that procedures were done correctly.
No one, no matter what age, is exempt from screening, especially when there's an item that can't be identified on a person.
What if it WAS an explosive?
What if a loved one was on THAT PLANE?
Don't think it could happen?
Think again.
There will be no security for the persons and property of Americans until the TSA is completely dismantled. I fail to understand why we put up with you.
Hey Bob, better write a boring article about a 95 year old sick lady who had to remove her diaper in order to get on a plane. How ya gonna spin it bob?
You DO know America is HORRIFIED right? We're more horrified by this story than we are by the minute possibility a terrorist could get on a plane with a box knife right?
Or were your agents too busy humiliating an old sick lady to catch actor Garrett Dillahunt with his hunting knife? Total Security Theater strikes again!
And quit picking my hot soccer mom friends out of line at the airport just so they can grope their BARE legs and arms while they fly in sundresses. I know they're cute gals, but they're not hiding anything under their SKIN and THONG underware. They really aren't!
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper. While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
Oh please...it was a "do you want to fly today?". There was no respect. There was no sensitivity.
Blogger Bob said...
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper. While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
Blogger Bob said...
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper. While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
June 27, 2011 10:20 PM
............
Your statement Bob is a flat out lie.
Are airport employees screened 100% of the time before entering the sterile area?
Are TSA employees screened 100% of the time before entering the sterile area.
Are aircrew screened exactly the same way passengers are screened 100% of the time before entering the sterile area?
Why the lies Bob.
TSA forced the elderly dying lady to be removed from the screening area and required the removal of the ladies Depends if she wanted to fly that day.
I have to wonder just what kind of people would do this to a dying old lady.
People with no decency!
That is security TSA Style!
Bob said:
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper. While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
You are hedging by saying she wasn't forced. Was she told she either had to remove the diaper or not fly?
Be honest, Bob.
Blogger Bob said...
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper. While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
June 27, 2011 10:20 PM
--------------------------
bob do you believe the lies you spew because the media and interviews say other wise from what you claim. Or would admitting fault be so hard or because it would probably open TSA up to getting sued in court.
Then what would those procedures be? the ones the screeners pull out of there hind quarters on a regular basis, the ones obscured behind "SSI security" that is a joke to the rest of the world and is incorrectly used 99.999999999% of the time?
word verification word - obfuscate something TSA does alot
when you say the passenger was not required to remove the diaper: was she offered a choice of removing the diaper or not clearing the checkpoint? was there any option to clear security without removing the diaper?
Bob, sorry you are wrong yet again.
Blogger Bob,
I have a simple reply to your response regarding the elderly woman with the adult diaper.
The TSA is a reminder of how far a society can fall when respect is lost for ourselves, and each other.
American Taxpayer
BOB! They did NOT follow procedures! Your agents let her go to the bathroom to have her daughter remove her undergarment! She left the screening area! DUH! You can't be this stupid! So, it's ok if I leave the screening area and come back? Or is it only sick old ladies that get to do so?
And you DID force her to remove her undergarment! That is if she wanted to fly! Your agency is absolutely vile. DYWTFT? I don't.
I still haven't flown since October 2010. When can I fly without being molested or having to share a seat next to a woman who is incontinent because you took her Depends? America will revolt with their wallets and put the airlines in distress and with any luck, we'll put the TSA out of BUSINESS too.
In response to Blogger Bob's denial that they "forced" this poor woman to remove her diaper - that is the most disgusting piece of misinformation I have ever heard. The woman's daughter stated that the TSA made it clear that they would not allow the woman to fly if she didn't remove it. Did they forcibly hold her down and demand its removal? No. But would they have let her on her plane so she could go home to die with her loving family if she didn't? No. Sick, Bob. One of your sickest. How do you sleep at night?
I think you and your cohorts at the TSSA are on the wrong side of history here Blogger Bob...Though I find your automated/canned responses to be borderline creepy, they do give the concerned public some insight as to what they are dealing with regarding the policies and procedures of the TSSA...and should be even more concerned than they might already be.
What is even more interesting to note is that you sound like you would be willing to leave your own children to the prying hands of your co-workers...and I as a loving parent find that to be as incomprehensible as I find it to be incomprehensible.
-----------------------------
Blogger Bob said...
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper...
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
Clearly Bob(not the blogger)you cannot be helped...you add nothing to this debate except your unadulterated loathing for both Constitutional and Natural rights.
Unlike yourself I do not fear for my life at the expense of others...I fear where people like yourself will try to take this nation, I fear what people like yourself and the TSSA will do to my child if left unchecked.
Prostate yourself before the loving eyes of Big Brother if you will, but I will retain my dignity and stand.
Blogger Bob wrote: "In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper."
It's, at best, unclear if they did or not, unless it is an official statement that you are making they didn't do so. And keep in mind that saying "you can't fly with this on" may not be the same as "take this off" but, the bottom line, is that it has the same effect.
Blogger Bob then continued: "While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner."
Yes, yes... you've said that a hundred times before, in response to every other outrage.
This problem is going to keep cropping up Bob. Because, somewhere along the way, the checkpoint became a fiefdom and we became your serfs. And that is just wrong Bob.
And that's why TSA doesn't work with passengers. TSA tells passengers "here's a series of increasingly narrowing hoops. Pull your pants down, paint yourself like a clown and jump through them while singing 'I'm a little teapot' or take a hike." We choose to jump through your hoops but doesn't mean we're "working together" Bob. This isn't Bizarro Universe.
And that's our fault, collectively; we choose to go through with this ridiculous security kabuki theater you're putting on. Instead of calling you out on it we just go with it.
Now before someone ups and says that this is a new world, a new reality and blah blah blah. I have no problem with sensible and effective security measures. The problem is that most of the measures that have been implemented so far are, anecdotal evidence to the tune of "nothing has happened since X" notwithstanding, not all that sensible or effective.
People who deal with security on an everyday basis -- not glorified security guards who complete a 40 hour course and get a shiny badge and fancy themselves experts -- look at what TSA does at checkpoints and chuckle.
And now TSA feels up little ladies who wear diapers and use wheelchairs. 95-year old Lena Reppert, a sick elderly lady was humiliated and made to remove her diaper;that is enough to make anyone sick! Had this been done to one of my family, TSA would be slapped with a sexual harassment suit faster than you can say "government flunkie!" These pervs have a job because of our tax dollars, we are their boss!!
Blogger Bob said:
In regards to the comments about the screening of diapers, our officers followed proper procedure and did not force the passenger to remove the diaper. While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
June 27, 2011 10:20 PM
---------------
I guess "force" is the operative word here.
It seems the only way to resolve the alarm was to remove the diaper - is that correct?
So the TSOs "suggested" that the diaper be removed or she couldn't fly. Is that correct?
No one was forced to remove a diaper. They were just told they had to chose between removing and flying.
Is that a choice?
While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area,
-----------------------------------
The problem is that every item isn't screened the same way, or for that matter, at all.
Every day, hundreds,if not thousands of diapers worn by children and adults are not screened the same way as this situation.
Gee whiz, Bob, "we delivered over thirty proposed letters of removal to employees", isn't that a little harsh? After all, these are the fine folks carrying out unconstitutional searches day in and day out, with little thanks to keep us all safe from the terrorists, right?
Interesting factoid: you're about 8 times as likely to die from being struck by lightning as a terrorist attack in the U.S. and nearly 20 times as likely to die from cancer.
Why is it we're putting up with this huge waste of time, money and manpower again?
The post at June 27, 2011 11:14 AM was removed for comment policy violations.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
The post at June 27, 2011 11:14 AM was removed for comment policy violations.
----------------------------------
I'm saving your post of June 27, 2011 10:20 PM just in case you ever fail to post a comment because it is "Off Topic"
Blogger Bob said...
The post at June 27, 2011 11:14 AM was removed for comment policy violations.
Blogger Bob
TSA Blog Team
June 28, 2011 9:07 AM
What exactly was the violation? I read all the recently posted items this morning and did not see anything challenging posting guidelines.
When will TSA accept some "Accountability" and step up and take some ownership in the civil rights violations TSA employees inflict on travelers such as the 95 year old lady?
The public is not buying that TSA employees followed procedure correctly!
"While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area ..."
Bob, here's a little anecdote from a recent trip that illustrates the true charade that the TSA has become.
Before heading to Fort Lauderdale airport last weekend, my girlfriend bought a salad, and got a bag of ice to keep the two salad dressing containers cold. By the time we got to the airport, the ice had nearly all melted. The TSO saw her bottle of water and made her trash it. The bag of melted ice (and salad dressing containers) that held as much water as the water bottle? The x-ray operator didn't catch it, no problem.
Do you feel safer? Or maybe nearly everything that the TSA does is just for show. And if it tramples our rights in the process, oh well, I guess they weren't worth preserving anyway.
If Elder Abuse is TSA Proper Procedure seems we need a new TSA that has some morals to work with.
While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner.
It appears that the TSA has its own unique definitions of numerous English words, including "respectful," "sensitive," and "accountability."
Of course, we can't know what those definitions are. They're part of the SSI operating procedures, and appropriately classified for national security reasons. And even if we did somehow find out those definitions, individual TSOs are empowered and encouraged to interpret them in a manner that varies significantly according their whims, and also according to their individual level of intelligence, competence, and training. This unpredictability is an essential component of the TSA's Security Strategy that keeps aviation secure.
The only thing we can be sure of is that whenever an outrage-provoking account appears in the press of a TSO treating a passenger in ways that nobody outside the TSA would ever consider "respectful" or "sensitive," Blogger Bob, Nico, or perhaps even Administrator Pistole will step forward to let us know that that the TSO acted properly by resolving the alarm "in a respectful and sensitive manner."
That appears to be how the TSA defines "accountability."
@Anonymous: "No one was forced to remove a diaper. They were just told they had to chose between removing and flying.
Is that a choice?"
As much of a choice as being held at gunpoint and being told "your money or your life."
Earl
Curtis, if "proper procedures" were followed then the problem is with your procedures, which are created in secret without public input by hysterical bed-wetters constantly overreacting to one-off threats that had no chance of actually succeeding in the first place.
Shame on you.
"While every person and item must be screened before entering the secure boarding area, TSA works with passengers to resolve security alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner."
----------------------------------------
No, you don't "resolve alarms in a respectful and sensitive manner" because the very act of inquiring about, let alone examining, the diaper of an elderly passenger whom you have no articulable reason to believe is involved in an attack is inherently disrespectful.
I'm a teacher. Now what if I wrote a line in my syllabus that said that, "Every time a student answers a question incorrectly I will strike their face with my fist. This policy will be implemented in a safe, non-abusive fashion." Now that wouldn't make very much sense, would it? The act of striking a student is inherently abusive, just as the act of examining a passenger's underwear is inherently disrespectful.
Actually, if I was really using the TSA as a model, I'd probably take it a step further. My syllabus would say something like this: "Out of respect for your privacy, I am not able to tell you exactly where on your face I will strike you. However, I will work with all students to resolve this situation by offering them the choice of whether they would like to be struck on the left side of their face or the right side of the face. In addition, I will never strike you in the mouth, although I may strike you in the area located between your nose and your chin."
Yet more claims of elderly abuse this time from MCO.
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2748834
You hold your employees to the highest ethical standards, but you haven't fired anybody. You have "proposed" removal. Those are some high standards buddies. Only in the government. Highest Standards....I didn't know the TSA Blog was a comedy site.
we will never have security so long as the tyranical tactics of the tsa exist. The tsa is more of a threat to freedom than any foreign country/group. The TSA and its policies represent the worst of us. The tsa wants to rule over the American people without regard to thier concerns, truly this is a totalitarian agency that continues to ignore the will of the people it serves - we will see how that works for the tsa in the future- the rule of law and the constitution will prevail and the tsa will be defunded. Stop hiding behind cowardace, form statements and answer to the people that you SERVE and who pay your way. Your arrogance will not serve you well after the 2012 elections when a new congress will deal with you in accordance constitution which you so eagerly distort and ignore. shame on you all.
I like how every time there is a problem with the T.S.A. they come back and say we investigated and found nothing wrong.
Nothing like the Fox investigating the chicken coup right!
We investigated ourselves and we didn't find anything wrong! That's pretty easy when you are the judge, jury, and executioner for yourself!
Absolutely ridiculous!
Nico, let me give you an example of what "accountability" might look like in this situation:
Pistole goes on TV and says the thieves at HNL have been fired and referred to the district attorney. He then admits that the TSA has a systemic failure that has allowed employees to abuse their position and the public trust. He apologizes, and explains exactly what he is doing to fix the failure so that no TSA employee can ever get away with stealing. He promises to keep us apprised of these fixes, so that we can be assured that incidents like this will never happen again.
That's ACCOUNTABILITY.
This post is just the opposite. It's a reaction specifically meant to evade accountability. It appears that when the TSA leadership heard about what was going on at HNL, they allowed it to continue for months until they finally got around to writing some "proposed letters of removal." Since the accused employees enjoy an absolute right to privacy, the curtain of secrecy can now be drawn to ensure that we never know what real action if any the TSA actually takes.
Then you write a content-free post suggesting that it was just a small group of "bad apples" working one shift at one airport and affecting just a few flights. And now that they've been given "proposed letters of removal," the problem is solved. You throw in a meaningless statement from Pistole about "ethical standards," but make no mention of doing anything to prevent recurrences at HNL or elsewhere.
It seems the TSA defines "accountability" differently from anyone else in the world. The only conclusion we can possibly draw from this post is that the TSA will continue to encourage an environment where nobody is accountable for anything, including theft. Until someone gets caught doing something the TSA can't defend, and requires a defensive reaction.
If we can't depend on the TSA to safeguard the belongings we entrust to them, how can we depend on them to keep us safe from terrorism?
Again, it amazes me that posters who are so determined to bash the TSA are the very ones supporting the TSA by constantly scouring and posting on the site!!!
Don't get me wrong, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but there's a big difference between expressing your opinion and becoming fantatical about it!
The ongoing ranting is like a 16-year-old who complains that his parents only let him/her stay out til midnight...even though it's for their own good.
Wipe the foam from your mouth, folks, and realize:
1.) The TSA isn't the enemy, ignorance is.
2.) The TSA is here to stay.
Question TSA Bob about that TSA accountability; TSA claims ID matters but lets people fly with stolen boarding passes and false ID then TSA goes on to claim that its ok because the person was screened.
So exactly why is TSA wasting millions of dollars checking ID and Boarding passes if other screening meets the secuirty needs?
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/06/30/authorities-investigate-security-breach-at-jfk-airport-after-man-flies-to-los-angeles-without-ticket/
The Transportation Security Administration says Noibi was screened before he boarded the flight from New York.
“Every passenger that passes through security checkpoints is subject to many layers of security including thorough physical screening at the checkpoint,” Transportation Security Administration spokesman Greg Soule said. “TSA’s review of this matter indicates that the passenger went through screening.”
Hey blogger bob... Since you like accountability so much could you please explain why the TSA is getting a firing range when they are supposedly unarmed???? Refer to. http://homelandsecuritydialogue.org/dialogue3/counterterrorism/ideas/arming-tsa-security-officers
Firing Range - Tampa, FL
Solicitation Number: HSTS07-11-R-00071
Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: Transportation Security Administration
Location: Contracts and Procurement
I'm surprised the TSA didn't scan, strip and then perform body cavities on those turtles at JFK. I mean, we all know that they were probably up to no good and that instead of eggs with baby turtles they could've been getting ready to lay eggs containing little robotic turtles that were capable of taking their egg shells and use them to fashion some kind of weapon.....
@JustSayin': "Don't get me wrong, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but there's a big difference between expressing your opinion and becoming fantatical about it!"
You mean like obsessing over shoes, shampoo, and underwear? Like constantly getting on TV and reminding us how TSA is here to save us?
No, TSA isn't fanatical at all. :rolleyes:
"1.) The TSA isn't the enemy, ignorance is."
As TSA is ignorant, TSA is the enemy.
Sticking its head in the sand and justifying its practices despite evidence showing they're a total failure is the height of ignorance.
I certainly don't consider an organization this ignorant an ally.
And BTW, Kellymae, is JustSayin' you? You always would say JustSayin'. And given the continuous TSA apologist posts, it certainly makes me wonder.
Earl
anon said:
"Why is it we're putting up with this huge waste of time, money and manpower again?"
can you provide some numbers for us on how huge of a waste of money the tsa is please. id be interested in how much of the us budget the tsa accounts for. is it more than one day spent in the middle east during the war?
JustSayin said...
1.) The TSA isn't the enemy, ignorance is.
2.) The TSA is here to stay.
~~~~~~~~
1 - The TSA sure acts like we, the traveling public are the enemy. It makes it very hard not to sound like the reverse is true when talking with/for/about the TSA.
2 - Not, its not. Not if I can help it. The TSA is tax payer funded which means that we the tax payers have some say in the matter. It make take a couple of election cycles until we find a politician with enough spine to do what needs doing to end this wasteful program of Kabuki, but it will happen. The TSA is not forever, their days are numbered.
[[TSA isn't the enemy, ignorance is]]
Bingo.
And heading the list of ignorance is the belief that a reactive search for *things* rather than a proactive query on the *people holding those things* constitutes security.
In the hands of McGyver, three aspirin and a paperclip can bring down a plane. Are we going to assume that every passenger is McGyver and start confiscating analgesics and all manner of manual document collators?
Because that is exactly how TSA operates. And that is ignorant.
And ... as you so aptly stated ... that is the enemy.
Shampoo and toothpaste is not dangerous. BELIEVING shampoo and toothpaste is dangerous and must therefore be confiscated ... is dangerous.
Believing that enough explosive to bring down an airplane can be crammed into the sole of a shoe is dangerous. And believing that everyone who tries to fly needs to be ruled out of doing that themselves ... is dangerous.
Believing that enough explosive to bring down a plane can be crammed into one's crotch is dangerous. And believing that everyone who flies must be determined to not be doing that themselves ... is dangerous.
The belief held by TSA boosters that TSA is little more than a benign authoritarian dictator is dangerous.
All these beliefs hinge on ignorance.
George said...
Nico, let me give you an example of what "accountability" might look like in this situation:
...snipped......
If we can't depend on the TSA to safeguard the belongings we entrust to them, how can we depend on them to keep us safe from terrorism?
June 29, 2011 9:28 PM
George, none of us can rely on TSA to do anything to keep us safe.
TSA wants to waste time and manpower on checking ID's/Boarding Passes when even TSA says screening is all that is needed.
The problem is that TSA can't even screen properly for WEI, which is all they are suppose to be doing, well.
TSA is wasting billions of tax dollars on machines and programs that do not detect WEI.
TSA is the biggest government boondoggle ever devised and to top it off is ran by the most incompetent crew available in the whole United States.
TSA is not about security but about security theater.
John Smith. said...
Hey blogger bob... Since you like accountability so much could you please explain why the TSA is getting a firing range when they are supposedly unarmed???? Refer to. http://homelandsecuritydialogue.org/dialogue3/counterterrorism/ideas/arming-tsa-security-officers
Firing Range - Tampa, FL
Solicitation Number: HSTS07-11-R-00071
Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: Transportation Security Administration
Location: Contracts and Procurement
Umm......Federal Air Marshalls are part of TSA. Now don't you feel silly.
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