5. Memorandum of Conversation, Washington, September 21, 1973, 10:05–11:30 a.m.¹1. Source: Ford Library, National Security Adviser, Memoranda of Conversation, Box 2. Secret; Nodis. The meeting was held in the Oval Office. The President’s Daily Diary indicates that it lasted from 11:38 a.m. until noon. (National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, White House Central Files, President’s Daily Diary) Kissinger’s talking points, September 21, for Nixon’s meeting with Sunthorn are in the National Archives, Nixon Presidential Materials, NSC Files, Box 278, Agency Files, SEATO.

MEMORANDUM
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION

• PARTICIPANTS:
• President Nixon
• SEATO Secretary General Sunthorn
• Major General Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs

DATE: Friday, September 21, 1973
PLACE: The Oval Office

The President: Are you on your way to New York?

Sunthorn: We are having a SEATO meeting on the 28th, but we are having a cultural meeting on the 27th.

The President: How are my friends in Thailand?

Sunthorn: They are all fine.

The President: I have visited there many times.

Sunthorn: I remember meeting you. I flew from London to Bangkok just to meet you. I still remember a fruitful time as Ambassador here. Your talk and reassuring statements.

The President: I wish I could have seen you more often. The Vietnam war, of course, made it difficult. With the war over, and speculation about the U.S. role in the Pacific, I want to assure you the U.S. values SEATO. It is important to our foreign policy and to Southeast Asia and Thailand. This is important to me for a variety of reasons, official and personal.

The organization has my continued support. With the war over and the situation in flux, there must be no indication that we will withdraw. That would leave a vacuum. Congress and many people want us to get out of anywhere. But we are important to peace and stability. There will be no signals that they will have a free hand in the area. I wanted you to hear it first hand.

Sunthorn: That is reassuring to hear. I will pass it on. I am new to the job, but am convinced SEATO can play a useful role.

The President: Tell me about it.

Sunthorn: A lower profile is necessary, but the threat of subversion may be even higher now.

The President: I agree.

Sunthorn: Despite the aid which may have given to Thailand and the Philippines on a bilateral basis, we think SEATO can supplement that. If we did not make efforts on projects, bilateral aid might not be coming.

For example, in Northeast Thailand we need 5,000 tube wells. Your government and my government have been working, but only about 500 have been dug.

When Mr. Faulkner of New Zealand came to see me, he said New Zealand would help us but bilaterally because SEATO aid is not effective. I told him that SEATO aid could be very effective and complementary to the bilateral. Both are necessary and don't duplicate each other.

The President: We will consider that carefully. That can give meaning to the organization. The military is very important, but this is also helpful.

Sunthorn: As Dr. Kissinger said [in his testimony], we have to emphasize humanitarian assistance and downplay the military. Both Thailand and the Philippines need aid.

The President: The Philippines and Thailand are the vital hinges of Southeast Asia. How do the Philippines feel about SEATO?

Sunthorn: That is a good question. I met with President Marcos, but General Romulo doesn't have the same enthusiasm as President Marcos for SEATO. President Marcos assured me that EATO has a useful role and I will support it. Romulo may feel differently.

The President: We are in a difficult period. You must wonder if you are just a caretaker. I talk now to you as a Thai. Thailand is the key — it is a place the Communists would like to get. They must not — the SEATO context is important to protecting Thailand.

We must put up a warning flag that the U.S. is supporting SEATO and the SEATO umbrella is helpful to protect the area. It gives us a reason to say "look here, we have a treaty commitment." It is better than a unilateral commitment. SEATO was a big umbrella before I got here — not that it was wrong. Better than 17 million people now live in freedom. Our opponents have complained — about the Christmas bombing, etc. But Southeast Asia would have suffered irreparable damage if we hadn't stood fast.

Sunthorn: Thailand stood by you.

The President: Your leaders must know they have a strong friend in this office. We won't let them down, despite what our newspapers say.

Sunthorn: I will convey this, Mr. President.

The President: How are things in Thailand? How are you doing meeting inflation?

Sunthorn: As you know, we depend on rice. Prices went very high. We had queues of people, which is unusual for us. Now the situation is much better.

As you know, the former rice exporting countries have no more rice, except the Thais. Everyone wants our rice.

The President: There is right now a world-wide food shortage. There used to be a surplus. Now people are eating better. We have got to figure out ways to produce more.

Sunthorn: Cambodia used to export. Now they import.

The President: I hope Cambodia can survive a while. I am surprised. Congress has imposed a bombing halt. This is important to the Thai border.

Sunthorn: Our economy is generally good. The rubber price is high, also tin. Our price index is up 30% because of the rice. Otherwise we are doing well.