In an interview aired early this month on WYNC, Jesse Jackson said it’s time to bring back the draft. Live from the recent Democrat National Convention, he argued that because many of them don’t have offspring in today’s Armed Services, our representatives in Washington are out of touch with the military.
His solution? Bring back the draft.
And he’s not alone.
Charlie Rangel, a Purple Heart and Bronze Star veteran who was also my Congressional representative for many years, has been arguing to bring the draft back for awhile now. Last year, he brought a vote to the House floor. “If America is going to take this position, all Americans should be prepared to make the sacrifices [service members do],” he said. “It’s abundantly clear that everybody does not assume the same sacrifices, whether we’re talking about taxes or loss of life.”
Is America really out of touch with our unique position?
In her recent book Drift, Rachel Maddow argues that America has grown “weirdly at peace” with ongoing war, and one of the most significant reasons for the nation’s military malaise is the small percentage of American families who actually have a family member doing the fighting.
I have one. So do you. I’m not “weirdly at peace” with anything.
Maybe this disconnect explains why Republican candidate Mitt Romney neglected to discuss the war in Afghanistan in his acceptance speech last week, and why I’m still waiting for a candidate to come forward who makes clear that the war our spouses are fighting IS their policy focus.
The truth is, I haven’t heard from one person who isn’t associated with the military say that this war is one of their voting issues in this election. Maybe it shouldn’t be — maybe the economy and the ongoing debate on health care and social issues are more important to the whole, just like both conventions would lead us to believe. But when we’re sending my husband overseas — and yours — I’m inclined to tell you this issue matters for me. Moreover, I’m inclined to agree that if more people were threatened with the reality of war in their personal lives, they’d care about it, too.
An editorial by Tim Whitaker in the Philly Post earlier this year argued the same. “Fact is, we don’t think about the war in Afghanistan much at all,” he wrote. “We may catch a headline on occasion, but our interest pretty much stops right there. Afghanistan doesn’t affect us personally. Gas prices, that affects us. Health care, that affects us. Afghanistan? It’s hard to get worked up. We don’t know anybody over there, not personally, so we’re not going to go all loco and take to the streets and demand withdrawal and stuff. The president and the military will figure it out one of these days.”
They’ll figure it out one of these days? One of these days?
I’m not sure about you, but “one of these days” I plan to change the filters in my central air unit. “One of these days” I plan to pick up hot yoga. “One of these days” I really will go through my old clothes and pull some out for Goodwill, defrost my refrigerator, and learn Chinese. “One of these days” is not a time frame to discuss the war in an election year.
I’ve always taken great pride in the fact that members of my family, including my husband, chose to serve. They dedicated their lives to being American heroes, and I have dedicated mine to supporting them however I can: with love, patience, care packages, a willingness to be moved all over the world at the drop of a dime, and, most importantly, with my vote.
Shouldn’t our politicians be doing the same?
If we brought back the draft, maybe more people would agree. If we brought back the draft, I wouldn’t be the only wife standing in Trader Joe’s dropping everything because my phone is ringing and it might be the one phone call I’ve been waiting for all week. If we brought back the draft, we’d have a lot more spouses who’d be just as worried about this war as we are.
If we brought back the draft, we wouldn’t be standing on the sidelines through one of the greatest exercises of political rhetoric and largesse in recent years wondering where our issue went.
It appears that the gulf between those of us in the military and everyone else hasn’t been bigger … maybe if we considered bringing back the draft, the rift wouldn’t be quite so large.. What do you think? Would bringing back the draft make a difference?
About Raleigh Duttweiler
Comments
NO. I don't want a bunch of snotty rich kids fighting a war they know nothing about!
I've witnessed the draft and see the results of young people today not being appreciative for what they have. They need to experience the draft and learn they can't hold on to mommy's apron strings into their 30/s. The country needs men and women who GROW UP IN BASIC and become honest hard working people wiht great integrety. ALL have been coddled enough. Let them withess why we fight for the freedoms we have. May GOD BLESS AMERICAN AGAIN and our snotty nose kids rich and poor GROW UP. Thankful Proud Wife of a Viet Nam Vet and G'Son serving his country. PROUDLY
You said semper_fi and then make a statement like that. As a viet nam vet I am ashamed of your attitude.
And rightfully so.
Fact: Most recruits today are middle class adults with college experience. Almost all officers have college degrees, most field grade officers have advanced degrees.
If the military wants your opinion on how to conduct a war or training, we'll ask you.
In war you are not fighting with a Snotty Rich Kid, you are fighting with a Solder, a Airmen, a Sailor or a Marine. We fight together. For a time the Majority of politicians in the house/senate had served. They knew what war was, now fewer and fewer have served. This divide shows in how they vote, and the fact that they can’t come together for any votes. They are divided by party lines regardless of how it hurts our nation. Our nation has not had a budget in three years. Also in history very few solders knew why there leaders placed them in a war. If sending Snotty Rich Kids out there gives our leaders the motivation to protect the troops that they have lost, then our nation might be back on track to regaining its heart instead of simply acting as the world’s police force.
Frost,
I agree and I do believe the key word is "acting as the world's police force". We are not a police force, nor should we ever be of that type force.
I totally agree with you. Not only that, wanting others to have to go through what you’re going through is the wrong reason to want anything.
That is hypocritical. Remember, you were young once but you were teachable, and so will these
modern youngsters, or they will suffer the consequences that "BOOT CAMP" awards if you
follow. The DRAFT needs to return so that every eligible American, male and female, can share
in the hardships and in the adventures that military life perpetuates.
So Dennis are you proposing a military state then? Perhaps it is up to the government to rear the youth of today?
As I am a service member about to retire, I do not think the draft is such a hot idea. Our military is not a branch of the DOJ nor a day care learning center for our youth.
Maybe if a bunch of snotty rich kids with power are made aware of the realities of war they would care about ending it.
A bunch of "snotty rich kids" fought and helped win World War II…Perhaps you have forgotten that we had a during this period.
Have faith in Basic Training. I'm sure they won't be snotty then. I actually think it gives them more discipline and respect. And hey!? They will LEARN more about a war BECAUSE they are fighting it! You don't think snotty rich kids aren't curious? Surely they'll want to know who their fighting, why their fighting, and what is at stake. I almost wish I could be drafted. I feel connected to the idea of a weird peace. I also don't like how my generation is growing up. I think we need that kid of exposure or something similar.
It worked for me and I wasn't a snotty rich kid, just a smarmy, crap talking, punk kid that thought he knew everything about the world at large. Basic Training works wonders believe me but, I also believe that the draft should return, because as it stands we might not have the required force to repel or defend with.
Then you are ok with poor uneducated kids fighting a war they know nothing about? I too am a vet, Viet Nam era, Desert Storm, countless deployments to countries that did not want us, just our money and while I was deployed, these snotty rich kids lived well, partied hard, got richer without paying their dues for the rights they enjoy!
I do understand some reasoning about rich kids leading as officers and no life experience other than a college diploma in literature or art appreciation. Been led by some over educated idiots and in a conflict area that costs lives! But also been led by uneducated CSMs who's only experience has been in garrison assignments because they were politically savvy. Anyway, the rich will always find ways to avoid the draft or have the connections to avoid going to conflict areas. Remember our previous commanders in chief, Clinton avoiding the draft by going to school, and how about Bush and his avoidance of his obligations when he was a reserve officer! Draft is no solution unless everyone drafted starts at the bottom as a private and earns the right to NCO'S status or officer rank!
Ess
Yea,
We really should be proud of both Clinton and Bush, Jr. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Clinton for his: "depends on what you believe the definition is, is! And for his handling of Monica with his cigar and stains on her dress, that were positively identified as his mark!! What a perfect example for the children and especially the teenagers of today!!
Bush Jr: for being just Jr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A
To the idiot who used the pseudonym Seller To:
As a recently retired Marine Master Gunny, I can tell by your comment two things:
1: You are not,nor have ever been a Marine.
2: If you were a Marine ( which I doubt), you were an admin type.
So with that said, you just need to shut your F-N mouth.
Marine Master Gunny Sergeant,
You had me in your palm, until you used the phrase "admin type". If you were referring to admin men and women given their all, with whatever, doing whatever, you still have me in your palm. But, the inference informs me I believe you are degrading a Marine by the job he was assigned in your our beloved Marine Corps.
Therefore, based on your inference I am going to assume the latter. So, as a Vietnam veteran and a Marine Corps Sergeant, I resent your comment, regardless if you were a Master Gunnery Sergeant, or not! Additionally, I not only served my time as a grunt for three months with the MOS of 0141 during and in the Vietnam War, but served as a machine gunner in a UH-1E helicopter for three months as well as an 0141 volunteer.
My squadron, VMO-6, the squadron that a Captain Stephen Pless won the Medal of Honor with, the squadron that multiple Marine volunteers acted as machine door gunners protecting our people on the ground, flying observations, protective, supply and resupply missions because the units were low on ammunition, and the many awards I received for doing what I did, during the Vietnam War for seven years, making it overseas twice for those seven years, I really resent your characterization and your inference.
Do you have one iota what it is like to be undertaken by .50 caliber machine gun fire coming at the descending helicopter with deadly fire coming your way to kill first or be killed? Think about the first principle of the Marine Corps: You may have an MOS different from what you do, but your ass is a field Marine first.
As a Marine Corps Sergeant E-5, I would have believed you would have been proud of any Marine, and not disapprove of the Marine that keeps your records straight so your next of kin be notified, you receive your pay on time and the right amount, and those things I know you have, that you wear on your left, breast pocket. There was no more motivated Marine than me for doing what I did at the age of 18 years old.
It is also my belief, MGySgt, that no one in the Marine Corps is any better than any other Marine. We all have our jobs to do and I can assure you, You are no better than this administrative Marine!
What ever happened to the saying in the Marine Corps, "Semper Fidelis", Once a Marine always a Marine?
You should be ashamed of your self and apologize not only to those you disrespected, by your inference to 0100s, but also to all the Marine Corps family throughout the world.
You, MGySgt, are not the Marine you thought you were. You let your anger get the best of you, and it gives me the pleasure of politely informing you, you hurt yourself, more than you hurt me.
The use of klondiker1s will always be here!
Just goes to show, MGySgt, top enlisted personnel can make mistakes, especially about the younger and less wiser than the top enlisted ranks.
Maybe you will give an apology,or not, to me, or not to me, but the Marine Corps should receive your apology.
Me, I'm just a peon you can ridicule when you can and as often as you can, like you probably did in battle, too!
And by the way, MGySgt, the only Marine Corps helicopter pilot that served in the Vietnam War was one Captain Stephen Pless, serving as a UH-1E attack helicopter pilot in VMO-6. He would be soon promoted to Major and then Lieutenant Colonel as the youngest Major and Lieutenant Colonel in the history of the Marine Corps. In addition, his whole crew also received Navy Crosses for what they did.
should read that received the Medal of Honor, (after, War in second line).
For the first time in my life I agree with the Reeeeeeverand Jacksooon! (This is my feeble attempt to imitate Rush Limbaugh) I think the snooty snot nosed punks should have to earn their own way for a change! I would like to see the pampered rich and politically connected kids serve at least two years in the military; before they are allowed into college. All American Citizens would have to spend at least two years as an enlisted man or woman: before being allowed into college, after graduating from college they should be obligated to serve two more years as a commissioned officer. This would include both men and women; with no exemptions. I think before holding any political office; any office holder must hold an honorable discharge, from the military, with no exemptions.
Coho,
I agree with you almost 99%. The one percent would make it four years total service prior to entry into service life. Two or three years is not cost effective. Why the services allowed two year enlistments is beyond me, with full benefits.
That is what basic training does, it gets rid of the rich boy or girl syndrome and creates a soldier, marine, airman or sailor. A little dose of real SERVICE to the nation would be a good thing all around.
Oh, come on! What else am I supposed to do with all this airsh!t I have?!
Here's what I think is a great solution (not my idea, but I can't remember where I read it): Tie service to Social Security benefits. In order to be one day eligible to receive benefits, a person must elect, to either a) Serve in the military or b) Serve in a volunteer corps, the purpose of which would be to build infrastructure or assist with the care of the young or elderly, etc. Option c would be to opt out of serving and also out of the possibility of receiving government benefits down the line.
Ainsley — I completely agree. I think that a year of mandatory service would be a wonderful thing for every kid coming out of high school… kind of like the City Year concept. A living wage, but also jobs working in the military, or building infrastructure, working on farms, caring for the needy, etc. I think that tying it to Social Security benefits is absolutely brilliant.
I agree some sort of Community service or Country Service would be a good thing to do but when i think of these things i think of the kids that can't do this option due to limitations(Such as Autism .etc). What are they to do, and i don't feel its fair to take away their benefits. Just a thought I wanted to put out there.
As a service member have to say reason I serve so my family don’t have to. I don’t want my younger sis to have to go to war like I am about to plus why make go to training for year on contract cost government n us to much money **** they except us to go or full 20. Half mY battle buddies only staying for 3 years that is pointless cus spent millions to train us pay us but only pt in 3 treats service
Social Security is not a entitlement, Every pay check including the military pay Fica, and Medicare, your employer pay the other half of your FICA, so it is paid into like a retirement fund, you have to seperate what a entitlement is before you propose anything. Your government spent the money collected for the fund, Now they want to refer to it as a entitlement, It is not.
OR we pay into SS for our entire working lives while military members get a pension after 20 yrs.
Military people pay into social security from there paychecks like every American.
Social Security was never meant to be your retirement. If that is your impression, you should rethink retirement
Before you start critisizing the small retainer (not a pension) military people get. Take a look at the generous pension & benefits Cops & fireman get after 20 years of probably never leaving their hometown.
I am retired from the US Army and my pension is around $1500 a month for 20 years and you call that a lot. While a congressman retiring after 1 term will get over $100,000 a year. Don't you think that is a big gap.. The people who retire after 20 years get paid peanuts. While people in congress get to retire and live high on the hog for sitting on their rears.
Not your idea, but if you remember Robert A. Heinlein, the author of "Starship Troopers", that was the point of his book. You couldn't vote if you had not served in some federal position, whether military or ambulance driver or whatever.
Don't tie it just to Social Security. Tie it to citizenship and all entitlement programs to federal service. This way, you don't have to serve, but unless you serve you can't vote, get welfare, PEL Grants, social security, or FHA/VA loans, etc. But whatever you do, do not reinstate the draft. Our service is the best on earth because everyone who serves, wants to.
Why do we Americans always make things so difficult? The simple solution is that every eligible
male and female, serves in one of our 5 services. There is no other option, no volunteering and
no opting out. The military teaches young people, something that they can never learn as a
civilian: being held accountable for one's action, dependability, professionalism, maturity, patriotism,
and the qualities of becoming a contributing citizen. That's how simple the solution is. All students
graduating from High School, will be bound by law to report to their nearest military processing
center to acquire bus-tickets for their appropriate military training center. After 4 years in one of our
miitary branches, these ex-patriots will be 4 years more mature and will be ready to face the cruel
world and its challenges.
I really think that would make a lot of our young men wake up and maybe grow up. I do believe that would be a great thing.
Some of the european countries our administration wants to emulate have mando-military service. You serve your time, learn some skills, most importantly- grow up, and either stay for the long term or go back to civilian life. Norway does it very well.
Believe I was hard with some comments made by you on here. But, when you are not angry, you make a lot of sense! I so agree with you on this comment!
Because the make up of those jerks in congress is not simple!
Pretty sure that is the same thing that Hitler did in Germany prior to starting WW2…
Sounds like a good idea, I would also say that if you don't volunteer you don't get that Government Higher education loan. State or Federal. I also this applies to females due to the fair pay for work act.
Sorry for my terrable spell check.
LOL, that's alright SgtMaj about your spell checking, you probably came from the farm anyway. I congratulate you on what you did and what you received! Joking of course about the farm!
SGME9,
So agree with this too!
Robert Heinlein mentioned the concept of citizens being individuals who had served a time in the military in the book Starship Troopers. Only Citizens would be allowed to vote or run for a political office. Sounds good to me! By the way he also served in the US Navy and am sure he saw back then many of the same things we as veterans saw while on active duty!
Manditory conscription as outlined above is a great answer. It may need to be tweeked but its a great beginning. Service to one's community or nation is a must to change the hearts and minds of this entitled generation. Get out and experience the real world…and have a paying job while you learn and earn and serve. Good job Ainsley._
Ainsley and Veteran's Advocate,
So with you on this one!
It appears you are just as out of touch as the politicians. Social Security is not a government entitlement, it is something that working people contribute to all their working lives. This is in eccense their retirement contribution to keep the wolf away from their door when they are old and are swept aside by employers due to age. While universal service has its merits however, tying it to a contributed entitlement is ludicrous
Sounds like a German policy.
The cost of training these people who would serve their mandatory year then leave would be ASTRONOMICAL. The reason retention is so important is because it costs significantly less to keep someone than train a newbie. Plus, I don't want people who don't want to be there to be forced into it.
Good points all around.
As soldier I don’t wanna bunch snot nose rich boys in my way n don’t wanna serve with people who where forced to join cus they won’t have my back when **** gets kinetic. I think its stuid cus coast to train them be to high and not worth it. Polls don’t wanna get killed cus there last experience or care for fellow battle buddies
How does being rich influence a person’s ability react during a kinetic strike? I know plenty of dirt poor people who would run away, hide, or otherwise “won’t have [your] back.” Another flaw in your argument: Not everyone with money is a politician, comes from a political family, wants to be in, or even enjoys politics! That comment alone is as moronic as me saying “I don’t want to deploy with poor people because they’ll be too busy watching NASCAR and flirting with their sister to ‘have my back’ when stuff gets kinetic.” Stop being a bigot and stereotyping everyone.
As soldier I don’t wanna bunch snot nose rich boys in my way n don’t wanna serve with people who where forced to join cus they won’t have my back when **** gets kinetic. I think its stuid cus coast to train them be to high and not worth it. Polls don’t wanna get killed cus there last experience or care for fellow battle buddies
Make it 2 – 4 years. Minimum pay, 3 meals an a cot. Hot and cold running water. Heck I remember at one PCS had to wave the AF regs at the Army to get hot water in the crapper the Army was running. So much for jointness.
Well you know what Vietnam era had a draft and there was a number of fine soldiers. Korea era had a draft. So Yes I want the rich ones out there learning what it is all about providing they could make it through boot camp.
Or we could bring back the Anglo Saxon fyrd where all men served 2 months a year.
Newsflash: This isn't pre-Conquest England, or Korea or Vietnam.
In my view the only way the rich kids would be one of two ways:
1. by graduating
2. keep on attempting or by calling for a long, black car with a door opening in the rear, of the undertaker
What do you mean a year. I think five years would be much better.
ONE YEAR??? Who told you that being drafted was for ONLY ONE YEAR?
It was for at least 2 years active duty and 2-4 years (depending on your rating) inactive or standby.
B Jenkins
I served 20 years when there was a draft. In a conscript Army you have people from all walks of life, with all kinds of skills. I remember when a platoon of 40 men had the skills to accomplish anything that needed to be done, including giving legal advice. There were plenty doctors, nurses and other healthcare personell. Yes, bring back the draft, We need it.
Excuse me but have you been reading how the military downsizes? The ones that go first are the ones close to retirement so that Uncle Sam does NOT have to pay them their pensions. Their bean counters figure it is cheaper to pay 2 privates to do a job than to pay a sergeant his salary! I had17 yrs when I was given the option of taking a laughable lump sum payment of 20,000.00 or take the chance of being forced out before I had reached my retirement. No, I was not some troublesome soldier or slacker! I had already earned 4 ARCOMs, 5 AAMs, EFMB, 3 CMBs, rifle expert for every yr, maxed the APFT every time for the 18-21 yr age group, maxed education points, etc.. Excuse me , I misspoke, I was a troublesome soldier in the sense that when an officer or commander made a questionable decision I spoke up so I was not too terribly politically correct. I made it to retirement and now have to fight for any VA benefits earned!
By the way, have you also been reading about the numbers of soldiers, Marines, Sailors, who enlisted voluntarily but when told they were going into a conflict zone they claimed they were conscientious objectors?
Yeah, about downsizing, I think they need to. There are too many people out there making too much money for two little work. However, my AD Army husband is about to get a re-enlistment bonus that is very substantial, because right now, he is worth it to them. I am OK with kicking out at 18 years those who haven't earned E7. EARN your keep.
Guest,
In life we are often times forced to do things we do not desire to do, but we do them. This "give me" generation needs to learn the basic facts of how to live, how to be compassionate, how to have empathy, how to have sympathy, patience, endurance, and God only knows what other things. Life is not all about give to me all the time, but working and collecting all one desires over a period of time. For the most part the "give me" is not about work, not about collecting over time, but NOW, I want it now.
One's service to this country should be the very length of what is mandatory service in today's military, a total of six years. Every military person in today's military when they enlist, is a total obligation of six years, to be spent how they desire, like four years active, and two years class III Reserve, etc.
Not sure if everyone will agree to that, but, in class III Reserves, it's like when you are class III, you are like on call for the rest of your mandatory service after serving active duty. In a military crisis any MOS needed, can be called up, with military training, ready to do what they do. Or at least that is the way it was!
I think there are ways other than a draft to teach people to be thankful and work hard for things. It's called *gasp* parenting!! I am 26 and my parents taught me how to work hard for what I want and never gave me anything I didn't need. I have been paying my own way since 16, college degree included. Same for all 3 siblings. You do not NEED a draft to teach people to sotp being lazy. You need parenting and a swift kick in the butt for being lazy or talking back.
Sarah,
I can really say to you and to your parents, they were blessed for some reasons in life to have had four children to turn out as you say. One of the problems today, however, is the fact that parents of today's youth has lost control over their children, and really could care less anymore. Their problem was the fact that they, themselves, were not taught how to be the parents, like yours were.
I congratulate them, you, and your siblings for having grown up to become the people all of you have become.
Semper Fi
Semper Fi, I don't want a bunch of snotty rich kids doing anything other than getting the heck out of the way of people who can make a difference in this life. Then again, I don't want snotty poor, snotty middle-class, or to put it bluntly snotty any-kind-of kids doing anything other than getting a handkerchief and startomg to root out their issues that prompt their snottiness. Who knows, the result might yield some of our finest citizens. But, for me, there are far greater aspects to this question about draft versus volunteer service.
Here's want I do want; I want all the people who are willing to let everyone else roll-up-their-sleeves and do the tough-work, to finally have to come face-to-face with the tough-work and the heart-wrenchingly tough moments that work often causes.
So do I believe that a volunteer force might be giving us one of the finest forces imaginable (passion for a job is always preferable to begrudging a job)? You bet I do. BUT, I know many, many people who were drafted and served with honor, bravery, courage, and laudable results.
So, I think this Raleigh person has hit the nail on the head. I'd like to think that Mitt and other legislators are merely complacent and that they do care and that they do understand the burden and that they do know our fear. But there's no real evidence to support that hope.
I believe that "One of these days" should be right now. Right this minute and not a second longer.
I have to concur. Nicely said.
The generation that helped save the world, was the World War II generation, many, many drafted into service of these states.
Somehow, when snotty nosed kids, from whichever class of people, is in a foxhole with an advancing enemy, one of three things will happen. They will break and run; they will die, or they will fight for their lives. Many drafted in world War II found the will, the energy and the guts to stand and fight to their deaths.
When a constant 3% of the population continues to take the "brunt of battle", leaving the 97% of the citizenry behind that is defended, becoming complacent and even not paying attention or feeling any emotion about those in combat as America has become, then I would, "bring back the draft".
At present our military men and women have been excessively called upon to take the "brunt of the battle for way too long. It's now to get all of the fresh candidates, both men and women, and allow them to suffer the consequences of war, like so many, many of our warriors have recently.
The military not only knows how to deal with the snotty nose kids, but will do it when superiors are so advised about how the snotty nose servicemen are acting and behaving within the Commander's units.
It is past time to give our warriors rest, and a break from war.
Ray
I feel like all candidates and current representatives are really afraid to talk publicly and just make their decisions…and NO ONE really talks about it. There's been more predator and reaper flyovers and assaults resulting in lost lives during Obama's presidency then I'm sure he would care to admit. Now whether its because he realizes that unlike during campaign speeches he can't just say oh this one man is making these decisions and understands what must be done, or sending drones out to do the deed is just easier then bringing up where to put the people if we capture them and risk bringing up G-Bay. No one wants to say how they feel and that bothers me more than anything. Take a freaking stand, have a real opinion and stop worrying about what happens in four years. It's almost as if they are running to get re-elected if they win (obviously not in Obama's case, but you get my drift). Plus, having a kid deployed (Beau Biden) did exactly make Joe Biden shouting from the rooftops connected either. Great article. I'm still trying to pick my chin up at having Jesse Jackson wanting the draft. LOL
I agree, they are all political cowards. Reelection is more important, not only the politicians look at the Citizens. They act like nothing is going on with our troops, the Mediaa is suppose to report on these types of things, but they are mute, they won't challenge any politicians except Republicans. not a word concerning the war, but when President Bush was in office that is all we seen. They act as though the war has ended.
Rooting for the Draft, is the only commendable thing that Jackson has accomplished in his
life-time. He, Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan, are certainly no role models for the Black
Community, and neither is the closet Muslim Moron that currently resides in the White House.
I don't want someone who doesn't want to be in a war fighting alongside my husband. That's a liability and not one that I would want risking my husband's life.
Christina,
Mam, would you please scroll up several times and see my comments marked Ray, addressing those I did?
I understand your reluctance about having snotty nose kids fighting in a war, alongside your husband.
At the age of 17 years old, I entered Marine Corps boot camp at Parris Island, South Carolina from January 21 through March 15, 1965 with Platoon 207. The timing should indicate to you that I was among the first troops to enter Vietnam at the beginning of the Vietnam build up, heading right straight into the Vietnam War. After training completed, within two months, I was in Vietnam, without any formal training for occupational school while I was in the Marine Corps.
Was I a snotty nose, wet behind the ears Marine? You had better believe I was, but when I was in war, I learned what had to be learned rather quickly, even volunteering to be a UH-1E armed attack helicopter door machine gunner, flying for three months. There was times I had to go out front of our lines as a listening post at night, by myself, knowing that people behind me were happy triggered fingered, but I did what I was told, when I was told, and how I was told.
The last is what every public member on the street today should learn, because if they don't learn it, their lives are at stake. Once any member gets through Marine Corps boot camp, they have learned how to be a man. Some may never be that man learned about, but they will have learned how to be a man, but most importantly how to be a member of a team. There is no brotherhood, like the Marine Corps brothers, in most cases (except the one above), because even at 65 years old today, I still am willing to give my life for the Corps causes.
It is my belief that others are the same way in the brotherhood, and for those that go through Marine Corps training as well!
Sempter Fidelis
Lady, wake up no one wants to be fighting a war!!!!!
Great post with interesting food for thought. The idea of actually bringing back the draft is super controversial and will never work given (what I perceive to be) the apathetic attitude of Americans towards the war in general. And how it drags on and on, out of sight, out of mind. How claiming to "support the troops" is the cool thing to do, without really doing much. Although personally I don't think bringing back the draft is the answer (it certainly would change attitudes about war), I honestly don't know what IS the answer. But I wholeheartedly agree with your point of view, about Americans being "weirdly at peace" with the war and changes ambiguously coming "one of these days" because politicians do not seem to be personally invested.
Reinstating the DRAFT does not necessarily mean it should be used only in times of crisis.
Returning the DRAFT to its most honorable position, will ensure that ALL eligible male and female,
by law will serve in one of our 5 miitary services, and after they have served for 4 years, they will
return to civilian life more mature and better equipped to make the right choices that life amongst
the natives, require, if you follow. Serving in our military is the most honorablest profession
devised by mankind because we in the military are our "BROTHER'S KEEPER," that is what
makes military members so unique, and entity that the dear leader fails to qualify.
Bringing the draft back is a terrible idea. It's not budget friendly, we don't need the extra people either. I mean, if something catastrophic happened and we needed more forces, then maybe, but solely for the purpose of making it a voting issue or getting the subject of war brought up in discussions on a daily basis from our Government leaders? Hardly worth it.
We have a lot in common with our civilian counterparts. Let's not forget about all the civil service personnel like firefighters, police officers, EMT's, etc…who work on the home front and keep us safe with little recognition and a lot of times…no benefits or crappy benefits and small pay.
If anything, require people to be volunteer firefighters, police officers or other civil servants.
There's always going to be some disconnect. But I think what's most important is that we make it clear to our representatives, congressmen, and President/Presidential Candidates that we deserve to be one of their priorities. But if not.. Let's continue to be quiet professionals who serve this great country out of pure patriotism and respect for our freedoms. Someone has to do it, and not everyone is cut out for it.
Training these brats in life always works. These kids have it way to good so a wake up call with the draft would definitely seperate the men from the boys.
If it "always works," why did the Vietnam era military have huge drug, alcohol and disciplinary problems?
Feel free to form your own military by your own rules. If we want your advice, we'll ask for it.
Michael,
I'll tell you why as I am personally a Vietnam veteran. There was talk, even in the beginning of the War, that America was not going to win this war, even though warriors were killing, more than being killed.
Why, because of the policies and procedures handed down directly from the White House, and not allowing the Generals on the battle field, to mostly pick and choose the targets that should have been eliminated from the first days of the war and "shoot only when shot at, and not before".
When ever an enemy was spotted at first in the war, and knew him to be an enemy, if Americans were not shot at by that enemy, we were not allowed to shoot the enemy. How many Americans know that fact!
At times, even though we were on the defense lines of out units, our ammunition was taken away, at times for days. How many Americans know that fact?
Over a short period of time, after we could not attack the enemy first and to kill or wound them prior to them killing or wounding us, we just had to allow them to walk away. That was bull crap, and after a time, the "who cares" attitude prevailed, getting more and more stronger and wide spread throughout the country.
Then later, after that foolishness was lifted, the millions of deaths of the Vietnamese people came to bear upon some of the minds of our warriors. Over time awareness took the effects of illegal drugs to cope with daily emotional feelings and what was being done to innocent lives, as well as the enemy lives too. And of course giving drugs to Americans was probably part of the enemy's plans as well. It worked!
It did no good, except for President Johnson, to direct a war directly out of the White House. Not allowing the Generals on the battlefield to direct their operations, was one of the facts that lost the Vietnam War and the morale of those that fought on the battlefields.
Hey Einstein: Evidently you are not a Historian, nor a Political Science major.
Communism is not yet dead, and once again, the Russian President is beating the
the war-drums in an indirect way; Iran is threatening; China, the sleeping giant remains in the
background biding her time and North Korea is yet to be seen. Evidently you have never worn
the uniform of our military services, therefore, let your game begin and volunteer before
volunteering is no longer an option.
Dennis, if you're talking to me, yes, I have served, HONORABLY. I joined the Army because I love my country dearly. And I can say, after seeing many people fail in the profession, that no, it is not for everyone. I don't want to be on the front lines with someone who is a coward and was forced to join the Military because of a draft. No thanks.
PMS,
Believe you're forgetting one thing. How many wars, how many battles, and how many skirmishes and ambushes do I warriors presently have had to fight for so many years now? How many more tired, overtaxed, and fatigued warriors have to keep on doing the dirty work of war, like so many have had to do these past years, because of the practice of down scaling the military. One day that will come back to bite America right in the posterior. Wait and see!
While part of me is in support because I think there needs to be a greater, universal sense of service throughout the country, I would rather see the current service members be better taken care of, without fear of losing promotion opportunities, benefits, funding, etc.
The number of volunteer enlistments has increased significantly, from what I've seen. AF Reservists wait MONTHS to ship to BMT, so the interest and the desire is there without the draft. I think many folks are realizing the benefits to serving without being forced to do so.
Aim High,
Do you really believe that in increased volunteering is due to the deep personal feelings of desiring to serve for patriotic feelings? Could it very well be — due to the economic condition that america is in? The small "a" in america is there for a reason!
The divide between the civilian world and the military one is huge. You hear people say “Thank you for your service” all the time; but how many actually mean it? How many are just saying it because it’s just seen as the ‘right’ thing to do when faced with a service member? Pride in our country, and for our troops is not what it used to be. It is sad. The youth of today are too spoiled, too selfish and childish. Those that wish to serve are few and far between.
Should the draft be reinstated? I’m on the fence honestly. I do think our youth should be put through some type of military training. But then again it does take away your right to choose. We are a far greater nation than that of Israel, so having everyone serve 2 years is not really viable. Also money is a huge factor. They are already cutting down the military, and stripping away certain things. Our country cannot keep spending like it has a no-limit credit card. Training would cost a considerable amount of money, and if they only stay in for a short period of time it would just be a waste.
Training is never a waste, if you follow, especially in the times we Americans are currently facing
with the adversaries that are lurking behind every international and domestic bush, if you follow.
That why, Starla, those drafted should be required to stay for, four years, not two years. By doing so, that would decrease the outlay of important dollars and maybe would also eventually get some of the draftees to make a military career out of their first enlistment.
A volunteer branch-of-service is wrong wrong wrong. The only people who volunteer are the ones who couldn't get other jobs. It's 1 step away from being unemployed. I'd much rather have a draft so that we get some real talent in the military.
Well that's insulting to every current servicemember. Many people have reasons for joining that don't have the paycheck as number one priority. Standards are tighter so that not everyone can join and I know that there are people of great quality that are serving their country today. A draft will pull in the slackers just as much as they would pull in "talent". I don't see how your reasoning would create a stronger military force.
You have to be kidding me. Your post makes me so angry. Just because someone has joined the military does NOT mean that they are, "one step away from being unemployed." Maybe they have pride in their country, love the military life, or want to do something that has meaning. My husband did not join the military for the money, and I am sure many other people would tell you the same thing! It is people like you that my husband is fighting for, for your freedom of speech to write such things on a military blog, and you could probably care less. Shame on you!
I guess that's why a College Professor just joined the United States Army Reserve, why a local college student who is graduating in December with a BA in Business with a job in fashion has decided to join the United States Army Active Duty, why high school students who have college scholarships are joining as well. I think you are definitely way off base in your assumptions.
As for "Quality First" and your comment " … real talent", I know for a fact that you are wrong. The people who are volunteering to serve have talent. There is no way that the "MILITARY" of today could survive with out the "real talent" that you are referring to did not exist.
Joining the Military takes a tremendous amount of courage. Knowing that with your decision, you may one day have to give your life in defense of this GREAT NATION of OURS. By not means is it PERFECT, but we, AMERICANS, work through our issues and rise to meet any challenge, may it be political, civil, or economical.
In closing I respect your opinion but feel that you are "wrong wrong wrong."
It is MUCH more difficult to join the military (yes, even the Air Force) than it is to go to college. The problem with a draft is that the majority of these burn out fat ass kids would never qualify to join. The young Privates coming in now are difficult enough to motivate AND THEY WANT TO BE THERE!
you my friend are an idiot beyond belief the draft in no way will make this country better. i am an active serciceman with the united states army 1st cav. division 2nd bgde. fort hood texas and i had opportunities to either go to college i decided to serve my country because it is the right thing to do. the 1% of this nation that is serving is the top percent of this nation that is smart enough and physically fit enough to do the job. i didnt join for the money in fact the pay sucks for the job that we do, yea we get health benefits but that doesn't put food on the table or pay the bills. us soldiers pay more on taxes than the average american because we have two more different tax categories on our checks which makes the money even worse than it already is. i enjoy serving my country because i am a patriot i love my country, what are you?
I'm retired military, and a bestselling author. My wife is in the National Guard, has two degrees and is much in demand for management positions. I'm sorry we ruin your ignorant position.
I am joining the military because I want to and it is what I have always wanted to do, not because I can't get anything else. What an uneducated and ignorant comment!
This is absurd.
Agree!
Get a clue, research your facts and then take the foot out of your mouth… and by the way, Thank you! Yes, thank you for making use of your constitutional rights that we (the 1%) have volunteered to protect. I joined at 17 straight out of high school because I did not know what my calling in life was. I wanted money for college and to see the world. Well, 23 years later, I retired knowing full well I had found my calling and a sense of purpose. I would not change my experiences (good and even bad) for any you may have. I can proudly say that I have been there and done that. I did see the world, completed a bachelor's degree while on Active Duty and have money for college (completing a dual Masters degree as I type)… I served with individuals who have more talent, knowledge, skills and abilities before the age of 21 than your entire gene pool. They all could have looked for civilian careers like you but instead, chose the very difficult greater purpose and sacrifice like us the 1% to ensure you could express yourself freely and sleep safely at night…
I volunteered for the military, and in doing so, I left a job paying WAAY more than I made on Active Duty. I don't know where you get your information, or what experience you have yourself, but I have personally been there. There are very few people who join the military for any reason other than that of pride, respect, and dedication to their country. Yes, some join to gain access to college benefits, but that is about the limit of it. The truth is, you can make just as good, or better of a living as a civilian without endangering your life, and with a hell of a lot less personal sacrifices. Not many civilian jobs at all require the commitment that the military does. Toby Keith said it best in his song, American Soldier. You can't just quit if things get too tough. As for "real talent," the military truly only accepts the best and brightest minds and physically healthy individuals. If you institute a draft, you will have a great number of people who are just there because they have to, and will be reflected in attitudes and morale. You will still have draft dodgers, and not everyone who has "talent" will make the cuts.
really? i'm a volunteer member of the reserves. i've served in iraq, haiti, colombia, panama, and a dozen other countries. i'm a nationally certified emt, a nationally accredited instructor, and an expert in my chosen field, with over 100,000 documented patient encounters around the world. i guess when i volunteered and enlisted 5 years ago, and decided to make a career change from being a successful mortgage broker making 6 figures to being an army combat medic making 40k a year, it was because i was completely untalented and unable to hold a job…douche!
Lots of great points, some which I never thought of. I remember at the start of my career the army was full of draftees. Many where great soldiers, but at the same time you could not/not allowed to walk in unlit areas, you had to lock everything, some had to have special disciplinary training ie extra training, cutting wood for heat etc. There are no facilities for this or the needed authority or experience. I would love for all families to have to share the load for quality people but not for criminals/gang bangers etc. Today’s soldier must be of above average intelligence & education, they must be trusted with some very dangerous items. I would not want to serve with one’s who couldn’t be taught or trusted. Some readers may remember how non conformist were persuaded to change. I can’t imagine a new CO dealing with a “blanket party” guest without a major investigation. This is a topic that needs much thought with far greater minds than mine guided by some with experience & tempered with wisdom.
I remember using GI scrub brushes and GI soap on those that had hygene problems. Both the soap and the brushes are long gone. Hell, remember the powder that used to show up in the latrines for soap??
Bring back Corporal punishment in our military services and in our public and private schools
and America will be astonished how much more efficient Congress runs, student's will no longer
act out their fantascies, and Moron's never again will assume the position of the POTUS.
You're a nut bag, aren't you? Corporal punishment? Really? Lets start with you and make an example of you then, since it's such a great way to get people in line.
People will do what people always seems to do, whether legal, illegal, ethical, or unethical. When there is no corporal punishment, people do not have the care to always be and behave the way they should.
When you have a group of strangers thrown together as in a training platoon in military service, it is the corporal punishment to the platoon of only one's negative or wrongful action, that eventually will get that negativism out of that one wrongdoer. I agree with the MSgt! Painful or not to the platoon, it works!
As far as the guest's comments to the Top, he is probably one of the 25 year old's that needs to see not only what corporal punishment is within a platoon, but to experience it as well, first hand, by the whole platoon. Then, maybe then he will learn respect and what the word motivation is all about. Some learn quickly, others takes time, and then there is that last kind, that has to repeatedly go through it time and time again, and finally gets the drift of not only what motivation is, but all the other things about man, about life, and what goes into the real makings of a man, suited to participate in combat. In combat one does not usually work as an individual, but as a team. And when that one individual believes that individuals can do it alone, usually they are dead, dead, dead.
Back in the day, my brother got in trouble the judge gave him a choice, jail or military.
He chose the marines, it change his life, he is a great person and has had a great job for the last 30 years.
He loves the military, his son is also a marine. The military gave him something that my father could not .
I work with children and so many would benefit from the draft
Look at our young people, after high school nothing, some go to college, a lot don't
They have no out look. So yes please bring back the draft,
I agree
I agree!
a) conscription goes against the very tenets of a free society. If you open the door towards coercing people to action against their for the good of society, it is no logically different from that of a socialist society. So lets destroy the free society in an attempt of curing some inconsequential “problem.”
There is no problem
Lets restart conscription at a time when the armed forces are downsizing. I think that’s a great idea, force people to serve who don’t want to into the organization while giving those the stiff arm that do. That should do wonders for the effectiveness and operational capabilities of our armed forces
Statistical speaking, youd also have the same amount of wives. Provided the size of the force doesn’t change, the method of entry is inconsequential.
Do I need to once again state how its against the very tenets of a free society, and at its very basis, is wrong and unethical? No? well I did again.
Your argument is fundamentally flawed, and not only because you quoted Rachel maddow.
Anon, how do you feel about raising the age limits for the military Instead of the draft? I believe it would help incredibly. In this day & age 30's, 40's , & even 50's are not the same as in the past. I myself Atempted to enlist in the USMC I passed every thing they threw at me & even had to compete against Marines that were in both wars & I was able to beat out all of them less one, and I was 10 years older than all of them but was kept from entering because of age. If we at least did this in the reserves It would allow America to be stronger plus make shorter rotations for all service members & their families. Just an Idea .
Peter, I like your idea.
Yea ok let those of us who are not afraid to die for our country support our nations orders while people like you sit on the sideline andenjoy your rights and freedoms we fight for. You make me sick .Dont be a coward . Do you think all the service men and women who lost limbs wanted too? At least they had the balls and guts to do it. Stand up and be a true american. I hope you remember this when your drinking your starbucks in the morning!
How about this, Anyone, and I mean anyone that wants to be in the Gov, including Mitt Romney, should be required to serve at least 4 years in the Military as Enlisted and only allowed to use Enlisted pay, housing and medical. And they have to start at the bottom.
This way, they learn what the military goes through. and hopefully figure that down sizing active duty pay, reducing medical and dental to the point they are useless and getting rid of retirement pay, is not the way to treat the men and women that fight for this country, put their lives on the line for this country.
For the Draft, it depends… is the Gov using this, so they can reduce military pay, medical and get rid of the retirement pay so many badly need and have earned?
I don't think the country can afford UMT anymore.
Personally, I remember then the draft was stopped – and I was in the military at the time. Our collective thought was: "What? no draft? This all-voluntary force will fail!" Much to the surprise of those of us who served "under the draft," the quality of recruits increased, the education levels became important, the weeding out of under-performers became a real tool to improved unit – and combat – effectiveness. It wasn't the 2-year rich kid problems with the draft, it was the undereducated street kid who were the problems. Bring the draft back? Here's the take from a 28-year vet: N-O, no. There are some of us who still remember the "sit-downs" in Vietnam. Please don't saddle our military with this again unless in all-out war and increasing troop strength numbers is an emergency. Mandatory public service — OK by me. Besides, no one's life depends on how well those people perform or react under intensely stressful situations and conditions. Bringing back the draft would be tantamount to bolstering every city's police force with conscripted cops. That wouldn't work any better than a conscripted military service.
as i see it, the military is being bled dry what with the repeated deployments with few new people joining. if a draft was brought back there should be no deferments unless one is in med school and then they go after compleating it. folks we are in a war not of our choosing but that islam choose to fight. we can either give up or take the gloves off and beat these people like we did in WWII. they remind me of sorta combo of the japs and vc. take gen.t. jackson`s advise;"kill them.kill them all" fredricksberg 1862
Japs? Did I just go back in time 70 years? Lols
first off islam did not choose to fight it. a group of muslim extremists chose to start it if you have ever actualy bothered to read the koran then you would realize that islam has the same commandmants and say pretty much the exact same things as the bible and they go farther than that they have hospitality laws which require them to aid a person in need as much as they possibly can america needs somthing like that because alot of americans only care about themselves and dont give a rats ass about anyone else as long as they are comfortable
Have YOU read the Bible?????? Or the Qur'an???? The Qur'an DOES NOT say the exact same thing. What an ignorant, moronic comment.
In a time when the entire military is downsizing, where would they put the "draftees"? People who WANT to stay in the military are being forced out, but someone wants to start forcing people in who don't want to be there? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Aside from not being cost effective, I do feel we should have a draft. The American public has become complacent when it comes to patriotism. Our servicemen and women are doing multiple deployments. In this respect, is it really not cost effective when it comes to our then veterans who have known nothing but war for their full military commitment.? Would the health benefits not outweigh the cost of training? Personally, I believe every American citizen should be required to serve in the service. More so if one is going to run for public office. You want to create laws that govern our military? Then you should have served in the military so you would have some understanding of how it operates. Yes, bring back the draft with NO deferments.
As a Vet who served during the draft and after the draft I can state categorically that the Volenteer force is far superior to the Drafted force. More motivated, just as smart if not smarter. Going back to a draft may satisfy some social agenda but it would not enhance the mission of the Military.
Keep in mind, I’m only 17. So I might not have as much to say as everyone else. Now I can’t say much about the war because I have not been. But I did enlist in the Marine Corps because of the pride they have. I leave to MCRD San Diego in a week. As I have said, I have not been to war. But I know that I would want someone who joined for the same reason I did, not because they had to, right beside me.
Good Luck With Your Endeavors In The United States Marine Corps…I Too Joined When I Was 17 Right After The Vietnam War And I Am A Better Person For Doing So…Draft Or No Draft…This Country Needs More Young Adults Like Yourself That Have Goals In Life…Not The Ones That Want To Live In There Parents Basement Until There 30…I Too Went To M.C.R.D. San Diego Platoon 2081…You Are In For A Hell Of A Ride…Semper-Fi…Future Marine…{0;
Stephen W. Gaudreau
Sgt. 1978-1985
3rd Battalion/3rd Marines
M.C.B.-Hawaii
John,
Many Marine recruits are extremely nervous when they get to boot camp. My advice on that, is to not be.
Very important thing is:
1. to do what you are told
2. when you are told
3. and how you are told
Why?
Because that is the start of the training you need in combat, and do all the above immediately, without thinking. Impossible? No
First, be the Marine you will become, as trained by professionals.
Secondly, Learn compassion and empathy when you safely have to do, while you are doing your duty as a Marine — but first be the Marine that is within you!
Thirdly, Watch out for those Marines that are in combat with you!
Sergeant, USMC, Vietnam and Cold War Veteran
And John,
Semper Fidelis future Marine. Be the professional Marine that will become! There is no brotherhood like the Marine Corps.
I agree with SGM Bob… but maybe for a slightly different reason. First, all the arguments about why the draft when the military is downsizing – nothing ever said there's going to be a set number inductees per month as to force already quality folk out.
Leadership is a key to training / discipline.
I understand the argument regarding rich kids/poor lids, but I'd like throw another argument into the mix. Some sort of mandatory national service (notice I didn't say military ) would probably address another problem, The gangs….. back in the day, ok, the seniors & juniors picked on the frosh & soph's, then you went away for a couple years, and the chain was broken. When you got back, 2 or 3 years smarter, you really didn't want to have much to do with HS kids. Now the bullies just get older and the 20 yr old's and the sr'r are harassed like the froh used to be, They're recruiting the mid-schooler''s…… and you have a structure that's self- perpetuating. Which is worse – the cost of training, or the cost of welfare for a lifetime with the abonded kids along the way?
Just my 2 centavo's…. BTW retired USMC MSgt….. and yeah, I had my pre-induction physical & test, & was taken on the bus by the friendly folks in Chicago.
The DRAFT would be great for the US , we would see a better society, kids that would PULL UP THEIR DAMN PANTS after spending some time at basic training, I feel we would see more respect on our streets. Great Idea!
MSG Johnson
24 years ARMY
The generation of kids that would be of age to be drafted is not the group of people I want to be defending our country. The majority of them are lazy, uneducated, unmotivated, weak, and cowardly. I’m 19 so I’m a part of this generation. I find myself to be an exception but most of them are how I described. Half of them wouldn’t be able to handle basic training, and the half that could still wouldn’t do well in a war situation. Just some thoughts.
my family fought 5 generations of war and my son is being deployed now makes 6. You are not much of man are you!!!
Daulton,
I believe what you're also saying, is the fact that you would not desire to be among the majority of your peers, having to rely on them covering your back in a combat situation. Well, there is a time and place for everything under the sun. And let's face it, your generation has not been the only culprits in battle to have done what you know probably to be true.
At 18 years old, I was already a "hardened" veteran of war and had already been in combat, under fire, by a .50 caliber machine gun. When one is trained, appropriately, and has the fear of life and death, they react appropriately for the circumstance, especially after looking out for the backs of comrad in arms.
I would venture to say, that all youngsters will react accordingly and appropriately when given the training of the Marine Corps as I was trained. If they don't, they will be killed, one way or the other.
little arrogant there aren't you buddy
Thank you, msg.
It would be great for all the kids to pull their pants up, but it wouldn't be good for the Army. Plus, we putting out decent Soldiers everyday that we have spent time and money training. Its crazy to develop young men and women to see them have to leave. Then, these two DEM yahoos run around calling for a draft…
I agree MSG Johnson, i am disabled veteran of disabled veteran and my youngest son 25 being deployed!!!! HOOORAW!!
Another 65 year old Vietnam Vet and Marine Corps Sergeant agrees with the top two!
I totally agree, see my comment from Yankee
I AGREE THERE IS NO RESPECT TODAY THEY ALL WANT TO BE ON WELFARE AND THE SOLDIERS GET 1.7% RASIE THATS BULL SHIT
Hey MSG, they wouldn't print what I posted I was AD 66 69 Germany & RVN, I was RA, stayed in USAR/ARNG over 30 & 3yr AD 1 in OIF. the BEST soldiers I ever worked with, ate, lived with were Draftees, they did their job, they had a work ethic, & a oblication to their country, they knew what Duty & Sacrifice ment.Today the kids are in it for the money.
I came across this article from a facebook post that showed up in my stream. It's interesting to me because I am one of the people who is "weirdly at peace" with ongoing war — I'm not proud of that. I don't have any relatives who have or are in the military. I know no one who is serving. It's just not on my daily radar — and I agree that it's not right, as long as we have soldiers and their families sacrificing, it should be on every American's radar. So I apologize for my apathy and I will pay attention to the candidate's positions on America and her military. Thank you for sharing, and for your continued service.
Thank you. — from a marine mom
Kym, Thank you for your honesty and empathy for those who chose to support our nation's military missions. The issue seems to be that too few Americans are serving military missions in this decade of war. Spreading out the casualties is not the answer. Adding a lot of people on short enlistments that do not want to be there or should not be there is not the answer either. Support to the few in the military means honest and consistent support by everyone. Bonds/taxes that pay for sustaining our forces. Community support for those who return wounded or not at all. America has found a convenient system for outsourcing the military when times get fatal, and wringing their collective hand on camera.
Each service member has a community, a state, a nation . and their sacrifices must be recognized at the highest levels. Today that is left to the survivors, and loved ones alone, and too soon forgotten.
We are missing te biggest fact. We are in this together. When one falls, we all must feel the loss.
Don't bring back the draft, but make Govt student loans contingent on military service. 2 years active duty or 8 years reserves… something like that. My tax dollars shouldn't be used to subsidize some pot smoking douche's Associates of Applied Arts of Eastern European Underwater Feminist Basketweaving degree…
…I was permanently draft exempt but went in the Marine Corps in 1968 (0311-Infantry) in spite of that. But I am opposed to the draft.
…Draftees did well enough in the "Crusade" of WWII, but calling up the "sons of the farmers and shopkeepers to fight on the far frontiers" of Korea and especially Vietnam resulted in a long lasting trauma…
…You have to have regulars to patrol the back alleys and windy crags of the far frontier… Using the Guard and Reserve to do this (again and again) for the past decade was a massive abuse that has damaged those organizations… possibly for a generation…
…If you did have a new draft, would *everybody* serve (Universal Military Service)? Alternate service? If so, what are the odds that Senator Cornblatt's son would do his "public service" in Martha's Vineyard rather than Watts… where the average kid might be sent…?
Teddy Kennedy was an MP at the US Embassy in France during the Korean War
If that is the only way I can serve then I agree completely. I’m 22 wanted to join military service since I was a kid. Unfortunately requires tell me im DIsqualified cause of my heart condition. If I wanna go overseas and fight then I should have that right ******!!
I feel they need to bring back the draft. I served in the Army active and reserve where I retired after a total of 24 years 3 months. I feel military service should be a qualifying factor to run for public office especially for our top office of President. I don’t see how a Commander an Chief can understand our military unless he/she has served. So if you have never served, you can not run for public office. Simple as that!
Sarge,
I totally agree with you. Then maybe some of the snot nosed punks on the street and still living in their parents basement will really learn the hard knots of life. There is no better college, than the "College of Hard Knots". When one graduates from there, they have been through a long, hard, course on experiences of life.
Bringing back a general draft is not a great idea, in my opinion. I don't want an Army full of people who don't want to be there. HOWEVER, I think that if a legislator/politician is going to vote for war, then a member of their own family should be drafted and serve in-country in a frontline unit. That would truly make them stakeholders in the war and make them think real hard whether that sort of commitment is worth it.
I don’t think they need to draft….just make basic training required to finish high school
Now that’s actually something I think would be doable. It would also have to be altered to each class of youth. For example… Less physically able ( like myself due too a genetic disorder ) or the like.. You can’t expect everyone to benefit from one kind of training or expeirence. Same as everyone learns differently… Also.. The youth would have to raise the funding for this training. It of course wouldn’t be mandatory… Seeing as that is against all freedom.. But maybe it would be an extra qualification or required for a high school diploma. If opted not to participate in some form of intense self preservation and pride, survival, internal leadership course. Along wirh everything else basic and like intense training have to offer… Then the youth may receive a form of GED stating they chose not to go the extra mile….Or for that matter.. Maybe require it for college admission. Even state and community college.
But draft. I have to agree with others on this. It would distroy what our armed forces have become by infesting it with slum who would rather watch and aide in its demise. Or use our advanced training for purposes other than defending our great nation. Thus aiding in not only military demise but in our country even more than we are currently experiencing.
Im not supportive of a draft. Let’s have a lottery and everyone wins. That way snotty rich kids and poor kids alike get the opportunity learn what it means to be a patriot. Learn what it means to sacrifice. Live off of a E-4′s pay, feed kids and balance a budget. Prove that freedom isn’t free. I’m betting if some “snotty rich kids” powerful parent has to deal with the reality of poor equipment, multiple deployments and Tricare, the rest of us will benefit.
The reality is that there are a lot of issues in this country that could be resolved once everyone fully appreciates them.
well i dont know a whole lot about the draft but from what i know from my mentor a vietnam air force vet. so i tetnicly have no say but i just what to say we should do it would make a man out of the kids these day. so u can chance those snoty nose kids to a respectable man.
I don’t want to be kicked out of the military, a job I love and need, to make way for the newest crop of draftees who neither love or want thier job.
Enact a service corp like Israel or some other nations have done, but don’t make Military members out of folks who would rather not serve in a combat capacity.
Wow, what a range of opinions. For the record I do believe there should be at least two years of mandatory service, be it military or peace corps or forest service etc. The last few generations (for the most part) have no idea what hard work and sacrifice for a higher good is. One of the problems we have with an all volunteer (sp?) force is that we are creating a "warrior class" the the rest of the population cannot truely relate to because they have no "skin in the game".
MSG USA Ret
I enjoyed reading all the different opinions on this excellent discussion topic. A couple of things though, I do not buy into the idea that kids today have no idea what hard work is. I guess some do not, among my circle of friends, many loafed and were content to live off money from their parents, even into their 30s. However, I know many many kids who worked their butt off at full time jobs while going to college, and now are working their butts off trying to get ahead in a difficult economic climate. Some of my friends recently joined the service, and unfortunately, their reason was mostly to have a job and an enlistment bonus that would pay off a significant amount of the debt that they owe. Obviously, they were called to duty as well, but there was more going on than simply service to our country.
Another perspective is that of my father – he was actually drafted during law school, and then entered basic after he graduated. He is very proud of his service, and from all accounts, made a fine soldier, serving in Vietnam. Without the draft he would never have served, yet because he served, he is a proud veteran who is quick to identify himself as both a former soldier and a combat veteran. I believe a mandatory service may be the best way to go, since the fact is, not every civilian is cut out to do the tough jobs that military service requires, and a couple German friends of mine (where service is mandatory) have related to me more than a few anecdotes about loafers who just sat around and smoked cigarettes while they were supposed to be on patrol. Anyway, just a few thoughts, a worthwhile and interesting discussion.
I served in the days of the draft and morale was at rock bottom, partly because of the draft and partly because so many of us got sent to an idiotic war in Southeast Asia. I expressed my opposition to a draft, partly on the constitutional prohibition of indentured servitude and partly because wars should be fought by those willing to do so, not forced to do so. He said, "So you want a mercenary military?" I replied, "I don't want a slave military. Besides, we all work for money, so we're all mercenaries."
I also disagree with Ainsley's comment, tying service to Social Security, because SS is something we contribute to. The government steals enough of our money.
The military is cutting people left and right, why are two Democrats trying to bring people into the military unwillingly? They aren't, they are trying to get support from the Drones.. Jackson and especially Rangel are jokes.
Some but not everyone is missing an important point. We need to return to the draft to provide a disciplinary and skills development opportunity to our young people. There's very little hope for those sucked into the mainstream of a very liberal and disrespectful society where the rule of law is ignored up and through our the highest reaches of our government. No accountability for individual actions required. There just no fear of consequences. No more metal/auto/wood shops in schools, no more arts and music, schools being taught by incompetent tenured teachers who should be fired immediately but are protected by the unions. Bring back the draft.
would it not be better and cheaper to spend the millions is would cost to train up a soldier to put that towards the school system if that your argument for a draft
This is a dumbass idea that's inventing a problem that doesn't exist. Our military is the best it's ever been in large part because it's all volunteer…
For everything, and I mean everything positive, there are also negatives that are not seen, until it becomes clear.
It damn sure an't no better than the Joes of WW2 Korea or RVN !
A resounding…YES…
Yes call up the DRAFT, and while you're at it raise the age range from 18 to 30.
No question the draft should be brought back. Too many people enjoy the freedoms this country gives us without having any respect for those freedoms or sacrificing in any way to have them. Mandatory service of some sort is the answer.
No the draft is unnecessary. When I joined the navy back in the seventies I served with some of the who were drafted at the end of their duty and won’t say all draftees were worthless and actually endangered those they work with but a good were. The volunteers are best our nation has ever seen, they are motivated actually are all in, to what they are doing. Very professional in all regards. Now as for ole Charlie and Jesse Jackson these guys make a living out of grouping individuals then getting them fight amongst themselves so they have an axe to grind. I remember when President Bush was running for his second term ole Charlie trotted out the idea then and before you knew it he had convinced the febble minded that it was a republican plan. They bring this red herring out during every election cycle so don’t I take them seriously anymore, heck I think at one point ole Charlie got it taken to floor for a vote and even he voted against it!
Agreed, we should bring back the draft. We should also let the age limit of the military expannd to higher ages to buid up our forces because there are people that want to serve & can't because of that simple fact.
I think the draft is a good idea. First there are a lot of countries that require the you have to serve in the military. I feel that we have to many adults that act like they are kids. I like the idea of everyone having to put in their 3 years. I think most of the people that are posting on this were not around when there was a draft. Yes a lot of those drafted didn't want to go but they did. They didn't want to go to Vet Naim but they did. I was around then and I joined the military at 17. I think it really made a difference in my life. I feel that it did make a "man" out of me.
The comments that you don't want someone that don't want to be there fighting a war for you. I am sure that most will do just fine. The argument about it costing to much is some what right. It does cost to train them. The positive side is that they are trained and incase we ever need them they can be recalled to fight for our country. We were hurting during WW2 when we had to do short training for those going off to war.
I have always been for the draft. I think it will serve America's best interest. I also think that our polititions are hurting the U. S. by making the militery smaller. That is one reason we are so reliant on the guard to do the fighting.
hell yea! there been too many service men and women combat tour two tour is enough that it WE NEED REALLY BAD.
Regarding re-instating the draft I was initially against it until reading the story then some bells went off.
I'm not a fan of Charlie Rangel, but the general public would think a lot higher of us and our issues re: getting what we're due in retirement pay, Tricare, and other benefits etc., if they had served or had close family serving. Because of the requirements to serve we're part of a small community that ponied up, took the oath, obeyed the orders, and stood tall and proud in our uniforms. I'd say the best jobs still go to those that sign up voluntarily rather than be sucked in by the draft but yes. It actually makes sense in that way if you think it out. But the good training and jobs needs to go 1st to volunteers, not draftees.
Hasn't anyone figured out why our country is over run with illegals and the agenda to allow it?
Who do you think the next bunch of "draftees" is going to be? It's bad enough that we put up with the
massive influx of tax dollar draining people we have created and truth self evident the poor bastards
don't have a clue they are being set up. Calderone and Bush cut that deal a long ways back. No jobs,
join the service. Hello?! Hola!
I believe in some sort of mandatory training for ALL Americans, if for no other reason than to protect our
OWN borders. THIS makes sense. It is NOT about race. It's about sheer numbers. I volunteered and paid
the price. 100%er. Class of '66. Been damaged ever since. But this is the risk you take if you really understand that freedom is not free. No folks, the agenda is politics and money, not freedom. I thank you.
I agree with a lot of these comments. I don't feel that it would be right to be drafting kids into the military when they don't even want to be there. I'm a kid myself, and I can see that clear as day. With all of the people I know, I can tell you every single one of them that just turned 18 or even 20 haven't grown up. To be honest, it would be a hazard to have a large amount of these type of people in the military because they were drafted. But, I agree with her as well. Kids of this age basically have everything handed to them, they are lazy, they don't do anything at all that would help this country the slightest bit. I feel that if we had a draft for an ongoing amount of time, we could possibly reshape the way kids are brought up, and people can truly know how serious these matters are. I'm addicted to keeping up with news on the war, and it makes me sad that when I try to converse with other people my age that they honestly don't even know what I'm talking about!!!
*I'm not saying that every kid is like this, just most of the people I know and the way I see others act
Mistixrenee,
As a Marine recruit that did my basic training at Parris Island, in 1965, I can assure you the laziest recruit would only be lazy for about one hour in Marine training. After that hour, he would be at the start of finding his way to extreme motivation, or would either go to a motivation platoon that would instill within him what the term motivation means, by not only instructing him to become motivated, but by him perfecting the term motivation when it comes time for him to graduate as a Marine. Those children would not, and I mean would not, be coddled and pussy footed around with by professional Marine warriors.
Those lazy Marines will be changed, within a short time, into a motivated Marine that would give his life for other Marines. Guaranteed! Do not ever underestimate a Marine and their training.
Maybe, mistixrenee, you should change friends in order not only have friends like you, but to become a leader of your friends like you. You sound as if you are a true patriot and desires more people to be and to become like you.
Semper Fidelis
Yes, The draft should and must be re-instated. This country UNFORTUNATELY is the policeman of the world but the majority of Americans could care less about the military personnel who fight these wars. The return of the draft and the deployment of husbands, wives, sisters, brothers, daughters and sons will change there minds. We elect our polital leaders therefore, in time of war, we must all support the decisions of our elected leaders.
Tom,
I so agree with you, all up to the last half of your last sentence. Look what going along with that part did for us in Vietnam. While wrong, the young of this divided country not only hurt themselves, society as a whole, but especially the Vietnam Vets still fighting in battles on the battlefields of Vietnam to assist the general population that did not desire us to be there, because it was doing more harm to them by us being there, than helping them. It was a catch 22 situation for them, caught between two countries that did not have any regard for their total being. Who are we as a world leader and nation to throw our superior weight and gonads around to them, when more of the Vietnamese people didn't desire for us to be there in the first place?
With sequestion, we are actually reducing our force. However, If we areinvolved in another conflict, the draft ,may be necessary. The problem will be in finding people physically acceptable for service. We have a gross overweight problem in our country. Then comes the question, will girls/women be drafted? Will dependent children be considered when drafting people. Many aspects of society have changed since we last drafted people in the 50s (I don't remember if we actually drafted people in the 60s). One of the false promises of the draft is that if you stayed in service until retirement, you and your dependents would receive free medical care for life – the military forgot to chedck with congress on that promise. Tis timre if we initiate the draft we will have to ensure that all promises made are based in established law.
don't call it YOUR country if you won't fight for it!
ret us army viet-nam
Interesting approach, BUT no workable when the POTUS is going for a major Reduction in Force (RIF). A drat would only increase the numbers they are trying to reduce. However, IF the money being spent on entitlements for people who get drafted go to the military payroll – it would work. Two words in getting it through Congress "Good Luck" or "Fat Chance".. Besides it brings up the question of the initial drug screening and the pass rate. Currently recruiters can pick a choose the best for the quotas.
Why draft people for the military when your kicking them out, for being gay, or lesbian, or discriminating against them from joining. When you have some muslims drafted to join your ranks, i'm sure some ignorance will be quite present.
I do understand the writers point, but forcing people to be apart of a war when they have entirely different goals, so they feel connected to the war, isn't a sign of small government. I respect military members, and was thinking, and have still thought about joining myself. I think if anything their is a misunderstanding, about non military members being "at peace". We feel that way because their are good men and women who are on the front lines fighting for us.
I don't feel scared getting on a plane, or when a domestic terrorist shoots up a movie release, i'm still going to see that movie, cause I don't have my life dictated by terrorists. I understand that this feeling stems from the fact that on a daily basis good men and women are out their keeping the fight at their door. Just because everyone isn't as vocal about it doesn't mean everyone is at peace, 11 years ago the Twin Towers fell in my city, and just this year people were dancing at that same spot, quite aware of the war and cheering the victories in this fight. People express their take on the war in different ways.
I've been saying for years that the best way to save money in the DOD budget is to bring back the draft. As noted in her commentary, this should also cause more people to take an interest in what's going on in our armed forces.
The key, as I see it, is to create a two-tier pay system. A soldier with less than two years of service gets "three hots and a cot" and a modest salary to take care of essentials–just like it was before they rolled out the "VOLAR" changes in '73. Keep the pay schedule we currently have for career soldiers. Draftees who opt to take a "short" and reenlist for a period of four to six years could be switched over to the current pay schedule for soldiers under two years of service.
While it would be a greater leadership challenge, I'm sure our army can adapt. We did it successfully for more than 20 years after WWII. . . .
Draft let’s dogo it. I’ve always thought we never should have stopped the draft. A mandatory two year hitch would help keep the gang members down. It would also teach them team work and discipline. Sargent First Class retired.
keep the game members down or create a whole load of gang members that are now military trained in weapons and tactics. Do you really think a 2 year draftee is going to change their life style that much. Granted you will for a few but not the majority
Draft let’s dogo it. I’ve always thought we never should have stopped the draft. A mandatory two year hitch would keep the gang members down. It would also teach them team work and discipline. Sargent First Class retired.
I believe that the United States should follow suit with many other nations in the world that have required military service. You turn 18 and you serve 2-3 years Active duty. Im a 28 year old man, I served 8 Honorable years with One 16 Month tour served in Iraq back in 2003-2004. I have always said that having required military service would be very good for America. For one, I believe that the required service would really help to give people a sense of direction in life, and some much needed self discipline. I believe that the crime rate within the nation would drop, the unemployment rates would lower, and people would have more respect and be more responsible with there choices in life. I am all for the Draft…
Spc. McClure,
I agree with you on most counts, above, but one thing I do not. Instead of 2-3 years, I would make it four, just as if you were to enlist, you enlist for, four years, and the service training most would have to go through, would be that of the U. S. Marine Corps, like it was prior to the Vietnam War. The Marine Corps would either make or break a rough, tough, unmotivated street punk. And, if you are sent to a different platoon for any reason, like being unmotivated or to the brig, that counts for dead time, that has to be made up at the end of your enlistment and indoctrination in the Marine Corps. Enough said.
Ray,
Thank you for your comment, I would have to disagree on the Marine Corp part.. Not everyone wants to serve in the Marines. And there are other branches of the service. Cant forget that the Air Force, Navy, Army, Coast Guard all have there Own respective training which best prepairs you for each respective branch. Marine Corp training would not properly prepare someone for life in the Navy or Air Force, where as Navy Basic Training would not prepare someone for the Marine Corps. I can definately agree with the 4 year term though.
Maybe SPC, you didn't fully understand or my choice of words were not as clear as they should have been. What I stated was about the training of the Marine Corps. It would be like any of the officer's academies, when they graduate, they could choose whatever service they desired, but it would have to include training that a Marine gets when undergoing boot training at either Parris Island, South Carolina, or at MCRD, San Diego.
When one has made it through this basic training, they are trained, and while going through boot camp, if they are not motivated, then they would go through that training as well, until the point they are motivated enough to go back to a regular platoon, at its very beginning.
As a Vietnam Vet I can contribute my personal motivation and coming out alive and learning how to be a man to that Marine Corps Training. If each branch of service would desire to continue their own short period of training to those that have gone through MC training, then so be it. My suggestions are just that, suggestions, but with my experience as a Marine, I say of all basic training, it is the best kind of training to become a member of a fighting force, or at least it was prior to the Vietnam War.
I was 17 years old when I entered Marine Corps Parris Island, and do not regret what it taught me in basic boot camp.
Many other nations is not a very big list according to wiki countries with compulsive service
3.1 Armenia
3.2 Austria
3.3 Belarus
3.4 Bermuda
3.5 Brazil
3.6 Myanmar (Burma)
3.7 Colombia
3.8 Cyprus
3.9 Denmark
3.10 Egypt
3.11 Finland
3.12 Greece
3.13 Iran
3.14 Israel
3.15 South Korea
3.16 Mexico
3.17 Norway
3.18 Philippines
3.19 Russia
3.20 Singapore
3.21 Switzerland
3.22 Taiwan (ROC)
3.23 Turkey
3.24 Ukraine
If we want to get out of debt then we must go back to the draft. We cannot continue to pay out all these benefits and believe that there will always be plenty of money to go around. To beleive that is pure Bull Sh*t and there is no way of hinding that smell called national debt. The benefits that service members receive is unbelievable from the days when I served. And for you die hards who hate this statement I can line item every "beni" you get that does not exist anywhere else. My father, his father and so on gave the same duty, honor and respect and were in harms way but for considerably less.
Bring back the draft? Hell no! Right now, there is a waiting list to get into the military as it is. Our budget is being cut, and advancement is at a standstill because nobody's getting out! And and you and your representatives in Congress want to INCREASE the number of people in the military?!? Sorry, ma'am, but with all due respect, you really have no concept of the bigger picture. I get what you're saying about the disconnect, but forcing everyone to join the military isn't the answer. The answer is Americans getting up off their lazy butts and voting, writing their Congressmen, and making it clear to Washington that we will not stand for these shenanigans anymore. You want Washington to listen? MAKE them!
An Active Duty Member
Brian,
Most of what you stated is true. Many of the members on the streets need everything a Marine Corps trainer can teach them. Motivation, discipline, self-discipline, the way to act, think, dress, become a patriot, and self-esteem, but most of all, what a real man can be. That, Brian, far too many members of street gangs do not have the luxury of receiving, because their parents are no where to be found, or could care less what their offspring has become.
With that attitude of parents, no wonder many gang members go that route for love as they see it, for connection, for protection and a place they can call home. The country is sick and it has become sick because of the political situation that now the politicians have become their worst enemies, changing and making the laws of the land to serve the politicians and their families, not the american people and public as they should. They have made themselves above the law and the elite of the land, like the Romans use to be. What happened to Rome, the corruption of the Romans was the cause of it's own decline. I've stated that for many years, and the more I have stated it, the worse the politicians have become. We are and I mean ARE heading there. If anyone disbelieves that, they are so badly mistaken. america has been on the decline for many years now!
I see a lot of ignorance here. A lot of people with too much history to want to form an unbiased opinion.
So far I’m noticing that a lot of people are concerned at the utter lack of appreciation for and respect for life that American children have. Is this something that absolutely needs a draft in order to solve? Maybe, maybe not. I ask impartially here.
I also notice that there is concern that Americans are disconnected, and spoiled. I think a draft would help against this, because a lot of grown men and women need to get outside our borders, and see the world at its worst.
On top of that, I feel that a lot of people need a wake up call of sorts. The young americans don’t need it nearly as much as the mid twenties generation needs it. We need to realize that comfort is a luxury. It’s hard to appreciate that when you’ve lived your entire life comfortably.
I dunno. I have mixed feelings about this. But I’m tending to lean toward the recognition that somehow, some way, America needs to wake up from its dreamworld.
SemperFi, Recon82!
The nail has been driven home, by your last eight words.
For years administrators throughout the land have taken what they want and have treated people in the worst way. american citizens have allowed this to occur by their "don't give a crap attitude" and the me, me, me way of life, the hell with the country and those that live outside my property boundary.
That has come about in regard again to politicians gaining the upper hand and their beliefs they can get away with whatever they desire to do. Politicians are just that are there to serve the public, not the other way around. The only way for this to change, is to start changing each and everyone of the politicians within the sorry government existing at the present. Vote new blood in, and give them a chance to do what needs to be done. After a term, if they do not produce what is expected, vote them the hell out too.
It's past the time america should wake up, smell the roses, and then do what the good of america needs. Vote on election day, and vote for new blood, starting in November, 2012!
The time is now, and at hand! Vote, vote, vote!
When a politician begins a career at an early eage
Its interesting listening to those that advocate the draft. Let me ask you a question, who owns you? If you believe in the draft you obviously that the government owns you. A free person should not be forced to do kill or be killed simply because a govt declares it, or force into involuntary servitude. You people might want to read the 13 amendment to the US constitution. “Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”
I believe everyone has a responsibility to the country that provides for them and their families. I think the draft should be brought back and it should include women. Bottom line is: We are all American citizens and should give back to this great country of ours. If we sit back and let "things" happen, then we have no right to any benefits that others have worked so hard for, some making the ultimate sacrifice!
Yes bring back the draft…so that people that don't care now, will sit up at night and realize and worry about freedom!! Right now…our military servicemembers are staying awake and night and babysitting so that the ungrateful "children" can sleep peacefully. Peace comes at a price and that price is being paid hourly by servicemembers and thier families…especially the children of the servicemembers.
I read as far as “Charlie Rangel” and stopped. Any article that would quote that corrupt POS isn’t worth reading.
PLEASE LETS DO IT, OUR YOUNG NEED DIRECTION AND TAUGHT HOW TO BE MEN
I don't think a draft is the best idea. Truthfully, we don't have the present capabilities to have such an influx of draftees enter the system. Maybe after a couple of years of building up our facilities and bases, but that will take more $$. Second, I believe I read that close to 75% of the people age 18 to 24 are unable to enter military service due to lack of education, criminal records or lack of fitness. Third, as a tradition, the draft was only used a few times. Going back to the Revolutionary War, most troop quotas were filled by militia (National Guard) and volunteers. Fourth, apathy in society will happen regardless of circumstances. But I do notice that with this administration, the media isn't blaring casualties as much as they were with the last administration. No more "daily tolls" or "faces of war" every Sunday. Finally, If you want to use a social program to straighten kids out, I rather not make it the military where lives are at stake.
I don't think it is necessary to re-instate the draft. However, I do think it is a good idea to make attending boot camp mandatory for every graduating high school student the Summer after their senior year ends. The Diploma is only considered active after you successfully finish boot camp. This would be great for teaching discipline to young adults and although they wouldn't be required to join the military, many might, right after boot camp. Also, providing that the person keeps up their fitness through life, these people could then join the military at any time maybe up to age 46 or so and not have to go through boot camp, but maybe a quicker boot camp refresher. The only exception, of course, would have to be made for the disabled.
Bill,
In order to make positive changes to a country, to rid itself of negative habits by the citizenry, what must be done? The old Japanese proverb goes something like this: "Even the longest journey begins with the first step!"
I believe most people believe that steps have to be taken to redefine the youth of this nation. So what if our facilities are not all up to par. They're still there, and I was trained at Parris Island, where the facilities were either from World War I or II. Fix up what is essential now and pay as we go.
Key element is to take the first step for change to the good.
The Vietnam War did not have a goal or any good plans to succeed in war. That was taught to the politicians and to the President. Key is to make the right plans by the right people to effect the right change within america (and yes, the small a in america is there for a purpose).
It isn't so much the civilian-military disconnect that bothers me: its the civilian-GOVERNMENT disconnect. When the draft was in effect, people paid attention to what the government was up to – and we wouldn't have had two very long wars sans any clear political objectives, plans or strategies to finish them had the draft been in effect.
None of the US leadership that committed this nation to war in both Afghanistan and Iraq had children serving (out of both houses of representatives – only Joe Biden had a son serving – perhaps a tiny handful more).
The draft should be reinstated for the good of the nation without exception. Then the only way for our forces to be committed will be due to a clear and present danger to the national security of the United States.
Why should implement a one year service requirement for all ages 18 to 21. We would use this one year to evaluate those that can be drafted in the future (most reliable candidate). Only those with major physical and mental disabilities would not serve. I am in a wheelchair but i would serve because i would be able to contribute with my mind and use computer skills. Those that are over weight would be given the tools to get in shape and cut down on expensive medical expenses. CHOOSE ONLY THE BEST FROM THE POOL.
Most of the above comments have been read. Some I agree with. Others, I don't.
It is my estimation the younger generation should learn what patriotism really is, what pride in their country should be, as well as the government should take better care of those that voluntarily takes care of and defend the citizens of this country, as well as every inch of the country.
Having pride in themselves for what they accomplishment that will follow them for the rest of their lives is essential for them not only as a military person, but as a human being as well. My vote is to bring back the draft, and like some here has stated, it is surprising to learn that Jesse Jackson, a black leader has suggested this as well. Is it because he and Bill Cosby saw the light what the youth of their culture was turning out to be?
Bringing back the draft is a bad idea. There are going to be some people that don't want to be in for obvious reasons, and they will do everything it takes to get out. That's a waste of time and money. And we don't have time or money.
I'm for the draft today, tomorrow, and yester years. Why, because it makes people more considerate to the service life when more home town boys from all over the states arrive in the military for their obligated service.
america made the mistake of stopping the draft, and when it did, look what happened to america, especially after the Vietnam War. War out of sight, out of mind, and I could give a crap about someone else's son or daughter.
And by the way, hello young women whether you desire to be in the military or not, now that you are part of the man's world, welcome to combat with all it's thrills, chills and hair raising moments, you are in for the rides of your life. You can thank the women of a couple of generations back for your entry into the military way of life.
I really had to laugh at this: "I believe everyone has a responsibility to the country that provides for them and their families."==========The government doesn't provide for me. I provide for me. The government simply makes it more difficult with a plethora of unreasonable laws and mountains of taxes. The only thing the government can do is take from me my natural, God-given right to live free. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
The government is like the "give me's" They take what they want, when they want, and how they want with an always empty hand, until tax time in April.
But, you had better believe if the fed owes money to you, how long do you think it will take them to get that what is owed you, to you?
Incidentally, the idea promulgated here by some people who, frankly, don't think clearly, that we somehow have to earn our rights with our bodies and lives is idiotic. Under the Constitution, our rights, freedom and citizenship is our birthright. Only in a fascist state would a person not be a citizen unless he had subjected himself to a period of slavery.
Freedom come at a price. Who pays that price, someone has to, so who is it going to be?
Is it going to be the best volunteers there are?
Is it going to be a select few of a certain class of people?
Is it going to be everyone contributing to this society that makes it better not just for a few, like the rich, the famous, those that can afford to send their children overseas to an elite college, or what?
This society is like the old Roman Empire, that saw it's better days while it was young, growing, while it was in Rome, Italy. What happened to Rome, after 400 + years in the country of England, Scotland, etc.?
Corruption within, just as it is within the divided states of america now!
So, how would the citizenry like a change of government, a change to include maybe Russia, China, North Korea, etc, etc, etc? Don't laugh, because China is licking it's chops and will probably own america one day, unless there are some drastic changes made, much sooner than later.
This issue was brought up after 9/11 by Mr. Rangel and while I was recruiting in Texas. The local paper printed this same question and asked for comments from the local population and the majority of the people felt some type of service would be a good idea however there was one person that responed, "Heavens no! That means my son would have to go to some foreign country and fight for some unexplained war. We need to leave that up to the blacks, hispanics and poor white trash, not my son."
Needless to say as a Soldier I was outraged that someone would say that but what upset me more is the fact the newspaper printed it. I wrote an article to the editor replying to this individual and basically I told him, those of us who serve are 100% red blooded Americans. We don't see ourselves as blacks, hispanics or poor white trash. We see ourselves Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, Airmen and Coast Guardsman and as far as us drafting his son; we don't him. But say a prayer before you go to bed tonight, questioning the blanket of freedom us blacks, hispanics and poor white trash provide you to make that statement.
If this is mentality of Americans when it comes to the draft, I do believe there would be 10 times more draft dodgers today than there was during Viet Nam and I would much rather serve with someone who wants to be there and I can trust than someone who truly doesn't understand that we don't do it for the recognition, we do it because we believe in the morals of this great country and want to protect what our forefathers started!
Proud Soldier,
As a Vietnam and Cold War Vet, please allow me the opportunity, Proud Soldier, to say thank you for your service and sacrifices made for this ungrateful and disrespectful way of the american society today.
Things should change for the betterment, but for one, I do not see change happening to this disrespectful society to the very men and women that permits citizens to go to sleep at night without any thought about harm coming to them and their families while they do so — sleep!
Glad you were offended, not only for you, but for all those that serve, have served, and will serve in the future. It disgusts me to the limit and once again shows that even the apathy has reached the older generation as well. "I desire everything that is good for me and my family members, but let the lower classes scumbags do all the dirty work in war, get wounded and killed, but not my son, a son of a politician and other wealthy citizens'. That is their thinking processes, not mine!
Salisbury Marine,
How soon we forget — where do you believe those patriots and warriors mostly came from that fought in the American Revolutionary War, against the greatest Empire of the Day — England?
How many large cities were there then, back in 1776? How many patriots were there coming out of the large cities, towns and larger districts. The truth is, I believe at the time, there were more farmers and the type like the farmers doing battle, than there was from the larger cities. The country was young and wild in those days and not only had the guts to fight, but fought their hearts out and defeated the enemy by using the lay of the land, and their brains, not their brawn.
How many times was Georgia defeated at first, and how many times did he make a comeback? Georgia himself, the leader of the Revolution was not a trained General, but one that had the sense enough not to make the same mistakes, and asked for military leaders from other countries to assist. The result of this tactic, as well as keeping most of the farmers on hand to fight the necessary battles, eventually won not only the war, kept the wounded and death down to a minimum, but won our independence as well.
Don't over estimate farmers and their kind, because when you do, you will get a very much needed surprise, when it comes down to the nitty gritty — I can assure you of that! I am a Vietnam veteran, Cold War veteran and a Marine Corps Sergeant, from a farm. I walked away from the Vietnam War with 17 military decorations, awards and recognitions, like so many others did from the like of people in my squadron as well.
The draft can eliminate some joblessness, give some people a better chance, but it won't be fair because the wealthy in this country won't abide haveing their kids drafted! The draft should include WOMEN whoare currently excluded from the present draft system. It can alslo cut back the military budget since single soldiers cost less than families and big bonus to keep the numbers up. When we had a draft, we could get soldiers cheaper and spend more on weapons systems which are extremly expensive. Now budgets inclued more houseing, schools, bigger hospital , commissaries PX all because of havin gto bribe soldier to stay in and all families. I got in in 1977, the draft was gone but the military ran things in th edraft manner. I had a draft card in 1973!, I retired in 2010 and found everything more expensive due to both inflation and the need to bring the families a sense of normalcy.
How an the he’ll do you people sleep at night, to think its only fair to send kids into war just so they can feel the way you do because your husband or son daughter volunteered for it.They choosed to be in the military.I am 28 yrs old and I’m in the process of enlisting in the army infantry because I am sick of these kids who volunteered that are dying for our freedoms, we can’t bring back the draft. We just need the folks that have the balls to step up! Those kids that would be drafted will be the ones getting killed or sitting in a corner scared when things get heated, that your husband or kids expect to have their backs! I’m just saying I can’t believe you people think its right or fair to put more lives in danger like that. Just because you always have to drop what your doing at Trader Joes to answer your phone that’s just wrong think about it.
Danny,
The young have had it too easy, too long, too soft and what has been developed within the young people is no dignity for themselves or for others, no respect, no self-esteem, doesn't know how to be a man, except putting something in something that eventually out comes something else. that has to be cared for at least for 18 years. Youth of today has to be taught these things so the whole society can benefit in several ways. I've read some good ideas within the posting and nothing is going to be resolved just by listing them and debating for eternity.
While i agree that a draft DOES have it's Pros, you and i know that 80% of the population would be opposed to it, so you know it's not going to go down too well.
If one of the implications of this article is that bringing back the draft would lead to less questionable wars, I’d question the veracity of that.
We had the draft before vietnam, but still got involved there. So I don’t think bringing back the draft would solve this type of problem.
Todd, Semper Fi man!
A draft will never change anyones behavior/thoughts to the goodness you are talking about no matter how badly we want it to. Under it all you are honestly forcing someone to do something they dont want to do. I hated lima beams growing up, I still strongly believe that my parents hated lima beans, however, but they wanted me to appreciate that we had food on the table and so I was forced to eat lima beans. I was forced to eat lima beans in the belief that it would change my attitude and modify my behavior to appreciate that I had food at all. Guess what, I still hate lima beans, I was to young to appreciate the message they were trying to give me and at the time I started to resent my parents for making me eat them. The draft isnt going to modify a person behavior at all and if anything is only going to cause those forced to do it to resent the source (i.e. our Government) which I honestly dont believe we can afford to do in our country, well unless we want to end up like Russia, Libya, or any of those super influential power houses…..I jest.
It would sure help the economy. Draftees would now have money to buy cars and homes and such , which in turn means more people hired for new jobs needed to make all the items people would buy, and the increased tax revenue would pay for it all. Its a win win situation!
Not everyone is cut out for combat duty. But everyone is cut out for some type of government service whether it is the National Guard or Army Reserves or hospital work or administrative work or teaching special needs children or joining the Peace Corp.
We need some type of national governmental service so that we can lean to appreciate what it takes to make a society succeed and for people to realize what it takes for them to succeed as individuals.
The draft served to kill a lot of birds with one stone, I think a thesis could be written on it and the high cost of ending it: expensive contractors rather than service members, contract mercenaries, rise in need for social welfare programs, fewer people being educated on the GI Bill and not finishing that education, rise of drug abuse and illegal trafficking, lack of genuine concern for those who serve (out of sight/out of mind national syndrome), increase in accidental shooting deaths, I can go on for chapters. The author is right. The end of the draft only served to line the pockets of contractors, sucking on the DOD udder.
Only a well formatted, managed, and implemented draft could work. Providing structure, discipline, a sense of pride, teamwork and self esteem for many. For others it could be nothing more than an obligation that sours quickly leading to other problems. Long term effects would change political thinking and possible migrations to Canada(Clinton). It would unknowingly raise military standards for more desired MOS's. Sounds good, huh? When the dust settles and the is evaluated the cost would be astronomical. If we would close up per WW2 our national debt would vanish in less time than FIGMO did his bag drag. And yes, give up our territorials as well.
How about this, and its free folks, no goverment or taxpayer cost associated, how about instead of the military fixing all our "mixed up youth and lack of respect types" how about parents just being really good parents and raising their kids to treat everyone with dignity and respect? The military is the answer for some but its only because they choose. Its not the answer for everyone and shouldnt be seen as the answer to the problems that parents dont want to correct or work hard at changing.
that actually might work!!!!!
Don't think so, because most parents of today don't control their children because they do not know how. Teach the parents first and then the youngsters would have a prime example how to be the children they can be.
In a land of free people were the few sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the society, yall want to bring back something that destroys freedom of choice? Negative.
So here is what you do. Bring back the draft but make it VOLUNTARY more like a registration. mostly for people who are unemployed and/or do not meet the physical requirements of the military, have a criminal record etc etc. use them as support personnel or if in case the **** hits the fan, hand them all rifles.
this relives the unemployment just a little bit, adds more warm bodies to the military pool in case of an emergency and its still an all volunteer force. Plus obviously it would be cheaper compared to spending how much on a private contractor?
If anyone has a better idea, I will be watching the comments.
The US military is the finest in the world–by a large margin in almost every category of measurement. Why would you want to mess with that? In the 60s and 70s California had the highest reading comprehension test scores in the nation. And then, inexplicably, dumped phonics from the primary curriculum. Test scores plummeted. The point is, if you are already the best, why make fundamental changes?
Since the Combat M.O.S. has been opened to Females, "The Harms Way Excuse" is no longer valid to defer "Able Bodied Female's".
The Conscription Act needs to be updated, too include "Able Bodied Females – 18 to 45 years of age – with a Constitutional Obligation of 8 Years subject to Military Total Military Service ; Active and/or Reserve.
The Military Branch's have re-written Job Descriptions and Standards to reflect New Policies of The Services; and the Update of The Conscription Act is necessary for equal application and to right a disparity of application.
– By doing so, perhaps this nations Politic will restrain its self in declaring hostilities of War on other Nations; however Politic usually has no conscience.
Why then is the army cutting 5 brigades of soldiers from service and not to mention the other branchs just to cut costs.
I personally feel every American boy and girl should go from High School into the Armed Forces for one 3-4 year hitch because it would put backbone in the "boys" and turn them into men with structure and instill pride with character as well as teach them how to act like ana become a real man…too many boys today are growing up without values, allegiance to Family and America, instead they turn into "whimps" and we've all seen them and heard them…the girls should definitely serve a term because it would instill pride in themselves as they turn into a woman and give them independence like they've never had before. FREEDOM & SERVING AMERICA is everyone's responsiblity not just the FEW…
Most of these post are immature , uneducated & misinformed I served active duty from 66 to 69 Germany & ,VN I joined, the best soldiers I lived with worked with were draftees, they didn't want to be there but felt they had an oblication to their Country, they had a work ethic, & were proud of the USA today's youth is radically different, they think the world owes them, they have no concept Duty Honor Country, & no guts, plus they wold have to draft females & that would never happen. Rangel is just blowin smoke.
What you running out of gays and women.Why don't we keep it all volenteer and next war we have I'll see you from the opposite side! People never let one dictate your future. What ever happen to we the people?
I support two courses of action—ALL IN or ALL OUT. We can't have both, simultaneously. We are walking the line of these two courses and are burning out an entire generation of military personnel, men and women. 6 tours in the sandbox are too much, when the end result is a medicated, PTSD-driven person, trying to make his/her way through the VA system, because they weren't allowed to stay for retirement. If we are going to fight a protracted war, we need large numbers of fresh boots on the ground. History has proven this. I served 20 years, both with draftees and with "volunteers". I was a volunteer—read this as someone who couldn't get a job and was struggling to stay in college. Yes, draftees are more work. Suck it up. Our current policies will not work forever and nobody seems to care. It would be good if we could remember the 1960's poster—NOT TO DECIDE IS TO DECIDE.
I grew up a "military brat", and as expected went into the military. I didn't join the Army or Marines like all the other guys I knew though, NO I had to be the SMART ONE, I joined the Navy(where I knew I could get a SKATE JOB,LIKE a cook,or something in an air-condioned area), well at that time you had to take some tests and that determined what schools you could apply for out of bootcamp. I qualified for any school I wanted(includung nuclear propulsion), but I wanted to be where I had access to shore and girls and booze so I chose Hospital Corpsman. Little did I know it also meant playing Marine. so to put it shorrt I played Marine in RVN fo little less than a year then went to Okinawa and was discharged for being "CRAZY" best and worst year of my life! met some good and bad guys both volunteers and draftees, still don't think draft will help anyone it didn't help then!!!!!
About the DRAFT ! Well, I'll put it this way, it worked in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam and a large amount of those draftees decided on their own, that the military wasn't as bad as they had been told by the civilians around them prior to their service time. Not only that, many of them decided to stay in and even made a career out of the military. I myself enlisted right after my 17th birthday, and for those of you that think I was too immature at that age, well, I had already been working 7 days a week and going to school from the age of 12. I had to grow up fast and mature just as fast and I wasn't immature, but thankful for learning early what it took to to make something of myself. I spent 24 1/2 years and retired as an E8 First Sergeant and in those years I worked with many draftees and I will say this for them, most of them were the best soldiers I had served with. There is one big difference between the younger folks from my day and those through the draft period, most of us knew what this country was all about and had pride. The younger folks these past 15-20 years, have had it too easy in school and at home in a good number of cases. But, I am not blind to the fact that there are a lot of homeless families in our nation and it is beyond their control. The way I see it, if we had a larger military, meaning a draft also, there would be fewer younger folks in the homeless situation and more military personnel to rotate overseas no matter where it was. As it is now, the military men and women are meeting themselves coming and going on their assignments, and the families are suffering right along with them. If, our military was larger in numbers, the families could spend more time together and I can base that on my own experiences from when I was in. I was in combat arms, a tanker, and served in tank battalions and CAV units most of my career, that was from 16 July 1962 – 1 January 1987. It was mentioned that there would be some draftees that could possibly put their fellow soldiers at risk because they didn't want to be there in the first place. Well, IF THE Basic training units were tougher like, and yes I'll say it, they were when I was in basic, then the weak ones would be weeded out and not make it out of basic, only the real men and strong willed females would make it through. I would like to add a lot more but I know that most of you ready this is tired of it already, so I'll end it with this. If the American people no matter what age, want a strong nation again, go along with the draft and make sure your children grow up to accept hardships in life such as the military.
Well first of all to answer this question the answer is NO! The draft is immoral and amounts to nothing but slavery! How anyone can try and argue that it is not slavery is insane and is probably mentally unstable as well. Also not for nothing but the cost of it would be unthinkable! If you want the Federal Reserve to keep printing money to pay for it than enjoy your devalued dollar! The all volunteer military has proven to be effective and guess what it works! __I will just end on this one. IF the draft was to ever come back, which I don't think it will, but if it ever did than the ONLY FAIR WAY to do it is the way the Roman Republic did it which is as follows:__ If war was declared than what they did was draft by class level. So what that means they would send the wealthy class first and went down the line with the poor being drafted at the very end of the bottom of the barrel. The reason was because if they lost the war than the wealthy were the ones who had the MOST to lose if Rome lost, the lower your status in society the less you had to lose. You know something they were right. __I hope people can at the very least agree with me on this one. Love to hear everyone's opinion on it!
Well at the rate we are losing citizens and the fact you have gays and women giving direction you would have a civil war on your hands. I personally do not take order let alone from someone who never walk the walk. As far as I'm concern this freedom light is flickering and no one give a dam. If I had to put on a uniform it would not be for the USA and guess what American pride is none existent in the warrior clan!
Yes…Yes..and Yes again.
When I was young, and eligible, we had the Draft. In those days we were all against the draft because we would not want to be picked, but we all had friends that did (I ended up being one of those friends in late1965). I think that America, as a nation felt the war more acutely because of the risks we all, males that is, faced. Mothers and fathers and grandparents all paid attention to what was going on "over there". It was important. We finally got rid of the draft because so many young people protested the Draft and the War!, Johnson's War, not ours. It was Johnson's war, because even then we knew he started it. No Vietnamese ever fired a shot at an American on American soil, just a greedy president's will to make a lot of money started that war. But now my diatribe about that war is over. I will state my position and be done. I am fully for reinstating the Draft, not because I was drafted and everyone should be drafted,no, but because the Draft did make WWII, the Korean War and the Vietnam War was felt in the hearts of every American every day, because we all had people in them. That made us all more reluctant to scream for war or even allow or politicians to suck us into any unnecessary war. We definitely need the Draft. As a side note, I have a beautiful granddaughter, who could be a model, who has already served 2 tours in Afghanistan. I am 100% against that war and the Iraq war and any future war, in any country that they are currently planning to attack.
Why? Have we not successfully performed in our latest conflcits? We get the personnel we need. Unlike what some pols believe, the armed forces are not a youth soccer league where everyone gets a trophy for participation. It can be hard, nasty, and deadly. We don't want the fat and lazy youth just because their number came up. All they will succeed in accomplishing is getting themselves killed or worse yet, getting one of my sons killed. Let them stay on the couch playing video games in their parents basements. Also, when did Rachel Madcow become a military expert?
As my husband always says; we should empty most of the jails and send the prisoners. Not the ones who are the worst kind of offenders, but the ones who would be willing to go to war in exchange for their freedom. The same with the illegal immigrants if they are willing to fight for our country then they should be granted full citizenship for our country and if they are married their wife and kids should be given the same. This country was created by immigrants from all walks of life and to make it great again we need to pull together and get rid of our current government and elect someone who actually cares. So yes bring back the draft!!!!!
Wouldn't it be great if you had to have prior military service to run for public office,or maybe even to vote.At least you would be aware of what it means to go to war.To have fought or served this country before you can demand "Free stuff " would go along way to respecting what services and freedoms received from your country,you would have earned that right . It is reprehensible for the one who claims to be commander and chief of this great nation to be unqualified to have even enlisted in any branch of service whether it is because of his admitted drug use,his homosexuality,or his known communist affiliations on topof not being a natural born citizen.