United States Holocaust Memorial Museum The Power of Truth: 20 Years
Museum   Education   Research   History   Remembrance   Genocide   Support   Connect
Donate

 

 

Voices on Antisemitism — A Podcast Series

James Carroll

January 31, 2008

James Carroll

author and Boston Globe columnist

Though he left the priesthood more than thirty years ago, James Carroll has continued to wrestle with the Church's two thousand year history of anti-Judaism.

RSS Subscribe | Download | Share | Comment

Download audio (.mp3) mp3 – 8.45 MB »

Transcript also available in:
Español


Transcript:

JAMES CARROLL:
It's urgently important to me that a reformed, self-critical, ecumenical, respectful Christianity dominate the Christian world in the twenty-first century. And the Christian world is at war with itself right now with a contest between the triumphalist, contemptuous, fundamentalism and what might be called an emerging church.

And the cross at Auschwitz is a symbol, really a symbol, a misguided, mistaken, ignorant symbol of the Christianity that needs to be left behind.

DANIEL GREENE:
Though he left the priesthood more than thirty years ago, James Carroll has continued to wrestle with his relationship to the Catholic Church. Carroll's controversial book, Constantine's Sword, is a deeply personal exploration of his love for Christianity as well as his confrontation with the Church's two thousand year history of anti-Judaism. That confrontation came into focus when Carroll first saw the large wooden cross erected by Catholics at the Auschwitz death camp.

Welcome to Voices on Antisemitism, a free podcast series of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum made possible by generous support by the Oliver and Elizabeth Stanton Foundation. I'm Daniel Greene. Every other week we invite a guest to reflect about the many ways that antisemitism and hatred influence our world today. Here's author, James Carroll.

JAMES CARROLL:
For the first generations of the Christian movement the cross was not an important symbol. On the contrary. The cross was an execution device, pure and simple. It was symbol of shame and disgrace. The cross comes into the Christian imagination with power only with the conversion of Constantine in the early fourth century. He instructed his soldiers to refashion their swords and spears in the form of a cross. And he went into battle behind this symbol. And suddenly the violence of the cross becomes a note of Christian faith. We find in the Gospel a kind of triumphant reversal of the meaning of the cross. Yes, that's true. But then down through the centuries, the cross does become the emblem of Christian triumphalist claims brought against Jews and the Jewish people. Never mind the history, the authentic history, which was that it was a Roman execution device, erected by Romans. Now it's used against the Jews.

The Second Vatican Council was a startling confrontation by the Church's own leadership with the failures of the Church. The most important manifestation of that reckoning was the document Nostra Aetate, issued in 1965—right in the middle of my time in training for the priesthood—which was the revolutionary declaration the Christian people could no longer say that Jesus Christ was murdered by the Jewish people, and went on to say further that Jewish religion continued to have validity. Well, these two notes were a complete overturning of basic affirmations of Catholic and Christian doctrine going back almost to the New Testament period.

But having said that, it's crucial to face the terribly discouraging fact that the average believing Christian in the world today is still liable to believe that "the Jews" murdered Christ, and still liable to believe that Christian truth has replaced Jewish truth. And as evidence of that of course you need to look no further than the phenomenal response to the Mel Gibson film, The Passion of the Christ. Mel Gibson put on vivid display the theology that Nostra Aetate had repudiated. It just goes to show you how deep into the Christian psyche the deicide charge against the Jewish people goes.

I first went to Auschwitz in 1995. And I went to Auschwitz as any Catholic of my generation would, braced against what I would behold, but also braced against any indulgence of cheap feeling about it.

The last thing I expected to find when I went to Auschwitz was looming at the wall, Polish Catholics had erected a very large, stout wooden cross. And I associate myself with Jews who find it offensive. For Auschwitz to be in even the most implicit of ways claimed by Christians is something deeply wrong.

What are Christians saying to Jews? Are Christians saying that the deaths of those who were murdered at Auschwitz are somehow redemptive, in the way that Christians believe that the death of Jesus was redemptive? If that's what's being said that's an offense at a whole other order. There is no redeeming the deaths of people who died in Auschwitz—period. There must be no diminishment of the horror, no overlay of Christian piety on it.

The question has to be asked, what is being said about Jesus Christ by having this symbol that we associate with him, this device on which he died? What is it- what is it saying? Jesus of Nazareth at Auschwitz? If he had been at Auschwitz he would have been there simply as a Jew, one of the Jews who died with a number instead of a name.

DANIEL GREENE:
Voices on Antisemitism is a free podcast series of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Join us every other week to hear a new perspective on the continuing threat of antisemitism in our world today. To contribute your thoughts to our series, please call 888-70USHMM, or visit our Web site at www.ushmm.org. At that site, you can also listen to Voices on Genocide Prevention, a podcast series on contemporary genocide.

 


 

Available interviews:

Jamel Bettaieb
Jeremy Waldron
Mehnaz Afridi
Fariborz Mokhtari
Maya Benton
Vanessa Hidary
Dr. Michael A. Grodin
David Draiman
Vidal Sassoon
Michael Kahn
David Albahari
Sir Ben Kingsley
Mike Godwin
Stephen H. Norwood
Betty Lauer
Hannah Rosenthal
Edward Koch
Sarah Jones
Frank Meeink
Danielle Rossen
Rex Bloomstein
Renee Hobbs
Imam Mohamed Magid
Robert A. Corrigan
Garth Crooks
Kevin Gover
Diego Portillo Mazal
David Reynolds
Louise Gruner Gans
Ray Allen
Ralph Fiennes
Judy Gold
Charles H. Ramsey
Rabbi Gila Ruskin
Mazal Aklum
danah boyd
Xu Xin
Navila Rashid
John Mann
Andrei Codrescu
Brigitte Zypries
Tracy Strong, Jr.
Rebecca Dupas
Scott Simon
Sadia Shepard
Gregory S. Gordon
Samia Essabaa
David Pilgrim
Sayana Ser
Christopher Leighton
Daniel Craig
Helen Jonas
Col. Edward B. Westermann
Alexander Verkhovsky
Nechama Tec
Harald Edinger
Beverly E. Mitchell
Martin Goldsmith
Tad Stahnke
Antony Polonsky
Johanna Neumann
Albie Sachs
Rabbi Capers Funnye, Jr.
Bruce Pearl
Jeffrey Goldberg
Ian Buruma
Miriam Greenspan
Matthias Küntzel
Laurel Leff
Hillel Fradkin
Irwin Cotler
Kathrin Meyer
Ilan Stavans
Susan Warsinger
Margaret Lambert
Alexandra Zapruder
Michael Chabon
Alain Finkielkraut
Dan Bar-On
James Carroll
Ruth Gruber
Reza Aslan
Alan Dershowitz
Michael Posner
Susannah Heschel
Father Patrick Desbois
Rabbi Marc Schneier
Shawn Green
Judea Pearl
Daniel Libeskind
Faiza Abdul-Wahab
Errol Morris
Charles Small
Cornel West
Karen Armstrong
Mark Potok
Ladan Boroumand
Elie Wiesel
Eboo Patel
Jean Bethke Elshtain
Madeleine K. Albright
Bassam Tibi
Deborah Lipstadt
Sara Bloomfield
Lawrence Summers
Christopher Caldwell
Father John Pawlikowski
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Christopher Browning
Gerda Weissmann Klein
Robert Satloff
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg