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STUTTGART, Germany, 

Nov 19, 2010 — Major General Richard Sherlock, U.S. Africa Command's chief of staff, on November 29, 2010, discussed the command's support to counterterrorism efforts in the Sahel and Maghreb with South Africa journalist Andre Le Roux. Le Roux is the Africa editor for Media 24, one of the largest South African publishing groups.

"The way that we approach trying to disrupt or defeat al-Qaida within Africa is to help our African partners improve their capacity to provide for their own security and for their own defense," Sherlock said. "We believe that working with our African partners is very vital because we believe that by enabling them to be successful in providing for their own security will increase stability throughout Africa, and as Africa is a very strategic part of the world, throughout the rest of the world."

A transcript of the interview follows:

MAJ. GEN. RICHARD SHERLOCK: (in progress) …. Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you today. What I do here at U.S. Africa Command right now as the chief of staff is I'm responsible for all of the coordination of all the staff actions that occur across the different sections of the headquarters, and help the different staff sections prepare their products and route different policies or things to the commander and work a lot of the issues for him through the staff that he wishes worked.

I've been in this job for about two months, now. Before that, I was the director of Strategy, Plans and Programs for U.S. Africa Command, or what is referred to in the traditional joint staff codes as the "J-5". And I was that for approximately 19 months, so just to give you a little bit of a background on what I've been -- what I've done here in U.S. Africa Command.

MR. ANDRE LE ROUX: Thanks, General. Just tell me, how much time have we got?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: I think we have, probably, about 20 minutes.

MR. LE ROUX: Good. Can I just start -- could you -- just -- (inaudible) -- on the strategic objective on your website, that AFRICOM is out to defeat al-Qaida or terrorist organizations and associated networks. Can you just say what that means?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, again, we have several objectives. One of our theater-strategic objectives is to defeat al-Qaida and its associated networks, and that is true whether it's in the U.S. Africa Command's area or whether it's in U.S. Central Command's area. And so for us, we believe that making sure that al-Qaida is not capable of conducting attacks against the United States, or against the interests of the United States anywhere in the world, is our number one security concern.

MR. LE ROUX: General, could you relate that to Africa? If you could -- given recent incidences, yesterday a device was intercepted at Windhoek airport in Namibia, destined for Germany, for example; you have the Christmas bombing attempt last year; you have the Yemeni-Horn of Africa connection, and so forth.

What would you say is the threat level from al-Qaida in Africa to your interests -- the U.S. interests -- and to general peace, in general?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, we view al-Qaida as a -- and we have to believe what al-Qaida says, that their intent is to conduct attacks against the United States and against the allies of the United States. And so we view al-Qaida as a very serious threat and we take them at their word.

The way that we approach trying to disrupt or defeat al-Qaida within Africa is to help our African partners improve their capacity to provide for their own security and for their own defense. You know, as you've mentioned with the device that was intercepted at the airport yesterday in Namibia, that was done by the security forces -- the airfield security forces within Namibia, with their security. That's exactly the right thing because that is their capacity to provide for their own security.

We believe that working with our African partners is very vital because we believe that by enabling them to be successful in providing for their own security will increase stability throughout Africa, and as Africa is a very strategic part of the world, throughout the rest of the world.

MR. LE ROUX: If you have to compare the threat levels of al-Qaida operations in Africa, be it from al-Shabaab right to al-Qaida in the Maghreb, where would you put that if you -- juxtapose that with the threat from Pakistan and Afghanistan and so on? How seriously do you perceive the threat from Africa to be?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, as I mentioned a moment ago, I think we have to take al-Qaida and their associated networks, and a variety of violent extremist networks, at their word. If they say that their intent is to conduct attacks against the United States or United States' interests then we have to be able to address that, to believe what they say.

And so we take the threats very seriously. Obviously, al-Qaida and its senior leadership are, right now, we believe, still focused in the Afghanistan-Pakistan area. But al-Qaida is a franchise network, if you will, and they are very happy to enable other violent extremist organizations, especially as those organizations would like to avow allegiance to al-Qaida and try to enable them to conduct operations wherever they happen to be. So we take every threat very seriously. And again, we have to take them at their word.

MR. LE ROUX: Sir, it appears that your situation currently is that you're working cooperatively with African military and governments and so forth. What would result in a direct action by the U.S. on African soil in defeating al-Qaida? What has to -- what needs to happen for you to get directly involved on the offensive -- put it that way?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, that's kind of a hypothetical question, and I really -- you know, we can debate hypotheticals almost all day long. So I really don't necessarily want to answer that because there are so many different things you could say or posit -- may or may not be a part of any hypothetical situation.

However, if we find that there is a credible al-Qaida threat, if we find that there is a identified al-Qaida threat or leader somewhere, then we would be very serious about reviewing what actions would be necessary to take. Again, our first response -- our first action would be to work through our African partners for them to be able to address that themselves because we think that happens to be best way to go in Africa.

MR. LE ROUX: Sir, with respect to your African partners, could you comment on the capacity and, if you will, the political will to deal with al-Qaida in Africa, please?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, the -- I don't wish to generalize because, you know, Africa is a continent of 53 different countries when you include the island countries that we partner with as well. And so each sovereign nation, each country's leadership really has their own view of how they wish to approach al-Qaida or violent extremist organizations within their borders.

And so what we do is we work with our African partners. We go where we're asked to go. We do not undertake activities that we're not asked to undertake. And again, we work from our perspective to support our U.S. foreign policy objectives which includes discussions with our U.S. ambassadors throughout all of those countries.

So instead of really kind of generalizing that answer about, you know, what is the capacity and what is the will, each country views the threat from their own perspective. And those things that they would like us to help them with, to help them address those threats, we're very happy to partner with them on.

MR. LE ROUX: So you've got a situation in the Horn of Africa area where piracy is rife in the sea and in the Indian Ocean. No South African -- no African navy is active in that area. Could you comment on that?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, piracy is certainly a threat. I believe piracy is a symptom and not an end-state problem. I think that there is a variety of problems in the Horn of Africa area that's causing a variety of instability. It's causing al-Shabaab to operate there. It's causing a variety of pirate organizations to operate there. It's causing, you know, kind of a broad swath of instability.

There are things that obviously, you know, we would like to help the regions' partners in that area be able to provide for their security, first of all; to really not allow that instability to spread into Somalia's neighbors. We would like to -- you know, we're currently, through U.S. Central Command, working with the government of Yemen to be able to have the Yemeni government and their armed forces provide for their security, to help reduce the instability and the potential for instability to come across from Yemen into the Horn of Africa area.

And so we think that the counterpiracy operations, all of the partners that are working in the counterpiracy operations -- the Republic of South Africa, the African Union, the European Union, NATO, all the individual nations. That also includes ships from a wide variety of countries, including the United States, Russia and China. We believe that those operations are very key towards containing and preventing the spread of further instability, and ultimately allowing that area to stabilize itself and to be able to move forward.

MR. LE ROUX: Could you go in, specifically, on South Africa's role as it dovetails with your objectives? Does South Africa have the capacity to take care of its neck of the woods? How are you assisting the South African government, the military in doing so? And could they do more?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, certainly, South Africa is a leading country. They are a very established, very competent, very professional country with a very competent, professional military. South Africa has played a very leading role, certainly within the South African Development Community and within many places throughout the African continent.

So where the United States' interests and South Africa's interests are aligned, we're very happy to work with the Republic of South Africa. We think, again, that whereas Republic of South Africa is a sovereign nation, where they would like to work with us, we will be very happy to partner.

I think that the relationship between the Republic of South Africa and the United States has actually been very positive. It has tended to have been more along the lines, from within the military, of the South African navy with the U.S. Navy, the South African Ground Forces with the U.S. Army, and air forces with the Air Forces. But we see where there is an opportunity to work together, we would be very happy to do so.

MR. LE ROUX: And can I just ask you -- there are two -- reading some literature on AFRICOM, there appears to be two thrusts. One is to deal with al-Qaida and -- (inaudible) -- international terrorism. The other is to deal with and to safeguard U.S. interests in Africa.

So for example, you're looking at the Gulf of Guinea, you're looking at Sudan, for example. How is AFRICOM involved in securing the U.S. -- U.S. interests in Africa, particularly as far as resources are concerned?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, Africa Command does not secure resources. Africa Command implements military programs that support U.S. foreign policy. We do not make that foreign policy. Our U.S. State Department is the lead agency within the United States for establishing foreign policy from our main State Department down through our U.S. ambassadors in each country.

Where our foreign policy goals are supported by military programs, we are the implementer of those military programs in many cases. For example, you know, where our concerns, our observations are -- as you mentioned the Gulf of Guinea; you know, piracy is not just off the Horn of Africa. There is a variety of problems from piracy to oil bunkering to illegal fishing to a variety of other problems in the Gulf of Guinea.

And so where we have come on, and where we have done things in support of our U.S. foreign policy objectives, are to help our partners in the Gulf of Guinea region provide for their own maritime security, to increase their capacity for their own maritime-domain awareness so that they can understand what's in their own waters and to help provide for their own security and stability in that area.

You know, again, we're committed to building capacity and stability so that the African nations can secure and protect their own natural resources. Africa Command is not involved in securing resources.

MR. LE ROUX: Sir, will Africa Command, at any time, get involved -- for example, in the Niger Delta, there was a raid on an oil rig there. And two American citizens were freed in that exercise, but by Nigerian forces. How would you be involved in something like that? Would you be involved on an intelligence basis or would you actually get involved in a direct-assault basis in something -- in a case like?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Well, we weren't involved in that at all. You know, if the Nigerian leadership had asked for us to help them prepare or to help them train or to help them to build their capacity, we would do that in a generic sense across the Nigerian armed forces. We wouldn't necessarily do that specifically for a mission or get involved in a mission. So again, our main thrust is to work by, with and through our African partners so that they can do exactly what the Nigerian armed forces did in freeing those people who were kidnapped.

MR. LE ROUX: Can I just go to piracy once again? Do you make a direct linkage between piracy and the funding of international terrorism?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: I don't necessarily see the direct linkages. I think that there are potential linkages, and that's something that, you know, we look at to try to see if those areas are connecting. I think that anything that is a potential moneymaker, whether it's kidnap for ransom, whether it's piracy, whether it's trafficking in some form of illicit trafficking, I think eventually many of the violent extremist organizations will attempt to use those to try to stay in business and to try to survive.

So again, you know, as you look at countering violent extremist ideology, that's not just a military issue, that's a variety of issues that -- everything from our Treasury Department working with a variety of host nation officials on how do we affect the money streams. That's also with, you know, our U.S. Agency for International Development as they conduct projects that try to keep people from being sensitive to violent extremist ideologies. It's a variety of ways, so, you know, again, it's not just a military type of an approach.

MR. LE ROUX: Sir, to round off this, all your respective regional commands are in situ -- in other words, in theater. Your problem -- you're talking to me from Stuttgart. When and why and if would you try to establish a foothold or at least a base presence, boots on the ground in Africa? What would trigger that?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Actually, we are not looking for bases in Africa, and if you look at the six regional commands, only two of them actually reside in their theater. You have U.S.-European Command in Europe and you have U.S.-Pacific Command in the Pacific. But Southern Command is in the continental United States -- you know, so again, we are not -- we don't need to be within the continent of Africa.

It's not about Africa Command or where Africa Command is. What we want to concentrate on and what it's about is what we bring to the table that can assist our African partners be successful. I think any debate of Africa Command's location or where are we looking for a headquarters -- and we are not looking to change our headquarters -- really just detracts from the discussions of what do we bring to the table that can be value-added for our partners that want to work with us.

MR. LE ROUX: I understand that.

LT. CMDR. STOCKMAN: Andre, this is Lt. Cmdr. --

MR. LE ROUX: Yes, I understand that, sir. Are you done?

LT. CMDR. STOCKMAN: I'm sorry, no, we've got time for probably, just one more question.

MR. LE ROUX: Okay. Can I ask you -- the AU and its body, its Pan-African Parliament, adopted a resolution asking of African countries not to accept American forces on the ground in Africa. Is that not also a part of the background as to why you are not in Africa?

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: No. I mean, it's certainly -- we listen to the governments of our partner nations and we listen to the regional organizations. And we have a very good relationship and dialogue with the African Union and many regional organizations and, again, many of the governments of our partner nations in Africa. You know, a lot of the public statements expressed concern about Africa Command and potential locations were made, really, before the command existed and before our role was even understood.

And so, you know, we certainly are -- we like to think of ourselves as a listening-and-learning organization, and so we work very hard to listen to our African partners who know the situation in Africa much better than we do and to work with the regional organizations like the African Union who know Africa much better than we do.

And so, you know, the discussions that occurred three years ago are not necessarily the discussions that occur now. Again, we're not looking for -- to move our headquarters anywhere. We find that our ability to work with our African partners from where we are is quite good. And again, it's not about the command; it's not about Africa Command. It's what can we bring to the table that's value-added?

MR. LE ROUX: General, thank you very much for your time. I much appreciate everybody who helped set this thing up. It was great. Thank you. This will probably run sometime next week in our papers down here.

MR. CRAWLEY: If you have any follow-ups --

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Great. Yeah, if you have any follow-on questions because I always think of one or two good ones after I hang up or after I leave the room somewhere, so -- please get in touch with us if you have anything else.

MR. LE ROUX: I much appreciate it. Will do that. Thank you very much.

MAJ. GEN. SHERLOCK: Thanks again.

LT. CMDR. STOCKMAN: Thank you, Andre.

MR. LE ROUX: Bye-bye.

(Off-side conversation.)

(END)