Doctors get high pensions, but they are doctors who spend their lives curing the sick. They deserve it. They also pay large amounts into those pensions pots.

I support the strikers for those reasons, but also because anyone challenging the Conservatives' dogmatic, ideologically-fuelled distaste for public servants, and their race to the bottom on wages and pensions, deserves our support in my view.

The BMA is a useless union. They completeley miscalculated - the action undertaken meant the vast majority of doctors did the vast majority of their normal work. They even helped trusts to rearrange appointments and ops, and did all other emergency work. And all this to maintain public support. Public support that doesnt exist, if the media coverage is anything to go by. SO the action just weakened their position.

They should have aimed to maximise disruption, not minimise it. Thats how industrial action works. Complete withdrawal of labour, every hospital, every GP. The government would have re-entered negotioations in hours. Either that or a prolonged work to rule. The current action just seems like a bit of a non-action to me, perhaps a doc can say how different things were today?

When can we have a very very long bankers strike please?

Doctors are self employed but get a public pension with all the benefits of index linking, protection from falling annuities and the vagaries of the stock market. Funny arrangement, or strong professional union.

Well done to those doctors who striked. I am sure many would have prefered to have withdrawn their services in protest at the NHS reforms and the transition to GP-led commissioning, however that would be deemed politically motivated and strike action on these grounds is illegal. Legally strikes can only be called on the grounds of working terms and conditions.

That said, the changes to doctors pensions are an attack on the NHS as they render it more possible to privatise huge swathes of the NHS, so defending pensions is in the same stroke defending the NHS as a health care service free at point of use to all. Doctors have a very valid case to strike on these terms. They deserve to be well renumerated. They are worth far more to our society than any self-serving politician or corrupt banker.

Two letters to The Lancet this week:

"Of course the attack on [NHS] pensions is part of the government’s privatisation strategy. It makes it cheaper for private companies to take over services provided by the National Health Service".(1)

1. cutting NHS pay / pensions means it's cheaper for private companies to take over NHS work and staff. (2) Danny Alexander, Chief Secretary to the Treasury said: “The new pensions will be substantially more affordable to alternative providers”. (3)

2. Worse pay and NHS pensions makes the NHS less attractive for doctors and NHS staff, so they will want to go and work in the private sector. (1)

3. If lots of doctors are faced with a big pay cut, they may end up turning to private work to make up the difference. (1)

T Blair put their salaries up. They didn't ask for it.

1. "Defending the UK’s National Health Service".
Kambiz Boomla, Anna Livingstone.
The Lancet June 20, 2012
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(12)60996-9
http://download.thelancet.com/flatcontentassets/pdfs/S0140673612609969.pdf

2. "Defending the UK’s National Health Service"
The Lancet. June 20, 2012
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(12)60995-7
*Nicholas S Hopkinson, David J Nicholl, Kevin O’Kane, David Cohen, Jennifer Mindell, Allyson Pollock,
Andrew Cummin, Lesley Kay, Natalie Silvey, Sheldon Stone, James Robertson
http://download.thelancet.com/flatcontentassets/pdfs/S0140673612609957.pdf

3. (UK HM Treasury. Statement by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Rt Hon Danny Alexander MP on Public Service Pensions 2011.
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/statement_cst_201211.htm (accessed June 12, 2012).

Doctors aren't self employed. GPs are (mostly) self employed, but you may have noticed that not all doctors are GPs.

Not impressed by the BMA's handling of this though. A prolonged work to rule might be more effective.

I am a doctor, I voted to strike - I was technically on strike today.

However, I was told to go to my usual place of work and undertake any urgent clinical work. As a doctor I will always prioritise my patients over any political situation, and I don't think I'm unusual in this.

Because of the nature of my job, all my work is urgent (I work in a crisis/emergency specialty).

I could have said I was participating in the strike, and lost a day's pay.

But I was doing my regular job. I would not have been paid for doing my regular day's work had I declared I was striking.

Perhaps this explains the 'poor' turnout - we were mostly working as usual as our union suggested.

I am still enraged - when I trained/qualified I worked 120 hours/week for pennies, with a promise of a pension at the end of it. We were paid less than anyone else in the hospital, we were exhausted. I know things have changed for later cohorts but in my case and for many of my colleagues we put up with hellish conditions - no sleep, no decent food, no showers between shifts - for many years. We were led to believe we could expect some recompense in terms of pension - that has been stolen from us.

The problem is not how much public servants, including the doctors, get as a pension.

The issue is that this government is trying to renege on agreed contracts of employment. These public sector schemes were not invented by the public servants, they were devised by previous governments, both Labour and Conservative, and it is not the public servants fault that these governments were unable to do the maths!

On the contrary they were more than happy to take in the billions of contributions that these schemes generated for them. It is only now when they are having to pay back a little bit more to keep their side of the bargain that they are trying to change the rules.

Basically the government is untrustworthy scum and I hope the doctors and other public servants do whatever is necessary to make this government of duplicitous blackguards honour long standing agreements and not let them change the terms and conditions of these contracts of employment.

After all it was governments lack of control of the banksters that got the country in this mess not the doctors, so why should they pay, especially as the bank bosses are still paying themselves outrageous bonuses?

'Well done to those drs that were on strike.' Why? They are very well paid and are now as greedy as the bankers

Let's hope hope you do not fall sick, have an accident etc while they are taking a paid rest day from their labours and perhaps get in another day on the golf courses.

You could be in pain and danger but never mind eh? the doc's on strike, bless. Price of their golf balls, fancy cars and holidays is really too much for the poor poppets aka shameful money grubbers to cope with.

Those of us outside the magic circle of public employees can only press our cold, hungry faces to the glass and watch our had earned money being foolishly thrown at public sector workers.

Ah well this is the Guardian not the sharpest knife in the box.

Bless what a little trooper.

Agree with Dr Chand's suggestion to withdraw from GP-led commissioning.Patients/profession will support such a decision as this would not hurt patients - will frustrate the government's plans to implement ideologically driven NHS reforms

Let's have another strike.
After all, £5000 a month pension is not enough for anybody, is it?
More public sector disconnect from the realities of who is paying for these pensions, yea, all £5000 a month, every month, for life.
It has to be that dreadful government's fault doesn't it and stuff the taxpayers that have to pay for it all.

I really rather like Dr Chand's idea. Go on strike from anything relating to the implementation of GP commissioning, but carry on actually being a doctor.

Another option, which apparently worked in Ireland, is to go on strike from signing death certificates. Not exactly kind on those wanting to bury their nearest and dearest, however...

to get the public fully onside, strike over nhs privatisation.

Cheese is delicious but I prefer a hearty wedge of Andrew Lansley's underpants, a sharp tug until the pips squeak........keep on tugging medical profession.....you know you like it.......

They're not allowed to.

Would you care to expand upon that comment? As it is, it sounds somewhat patronising.

I know things have changed for later cohorts but in my case and for many of my colleagues we put up with hellish conditions - no sleep, no decent food, no showers between shifts - for many years.

What about the patients who have to put up with no sleep, no decent food, no showers and are ill at the same time?
The hellish conditions are what's left after you pay doctors more than what they get almost anywhere else in the world (twice what they get paid in France) resulting in no money left for anything else.
On £100k a year once outside the hospital, doctors live extremely well compared to almost any other job.

To expand on historydoctor's comment, my rough understanding of trade union law is that any strike that isn't over the group of worker's own pay and/or conditions is illegal. I think this law was introduced or widened under Thatcher to prevent one set of workers striking in solidarity with another. For example workers in one factory wouldn't be allowed to go on strike to support workers in a separate business that supplies materials to their factory.

Unions organising strikes in contravention to this rule are at risk of having their funds confiscated, and workers that participate in unofficial strikes are at risk of disciplinary action or potentially being sacked.

Of course it seems possible that the unpopularity of nhs privatisation may have encouraged more doctors to vote to strike over their pensions than would have done so otherwise.

"http://www.guardian.co.uk/discussion/user/id/4327066" They are very well paid and are now as greedy as the bankers"
... don't think so actually, look at the payscales!

Before you complain too much try and put it in perspective - doctors are very well educated and comparable professions (law, accountancy, vets, dentists) do MUCH better financially.

At the end of the day would you like to get treated by a happy, well-paid, competent doctor, or a fed-up, underpaid, over-worked, burnt -out doctor who is beginning to question why they bothered getting three A's at A-level then 5 years in medical school, then a one-in-two or three on-call rotation for 3 years as a house officer (making under the minimum wage) with the promise of a decent salary and pension once they became consultants etc etc....?

There is a significant movement of well trained doctors out of the NHS and into private practice or overseas positions as they realise that their skills are appreciated more by other populations. Look at other health systems where doctors are paid a commercially viable wage (US, Bermuda, etc) and see if you want that to become a reality in the UK. For instance a consultant in the US will frequently earn over 6 times that of a comparably trained NHS consultant.

I think our NHS doctors do a great job despite the poor working conditions and should be fully supported.

What about the patients who have to put up with no sleep, no decent food, no showers and are ill at the same time?

Nobody can guarantee you a good night's sleep, decent food isn't a human right (and indecent food isn't the end of the world), what is your experience of lack of access to a shower in hospital? And lastly, to point out the obvious, if you weren't ill you wouldn't be in hospital.

I noitice that you make no mention of the standard of care that you received from the doctors that you are so quick to criticise.

Let's hope hope you do not fall sick, have an accident etc while they are taking a paid rest day from their labours and perhaps get in another day on the golf courses.

I made the mistake of recommending this post before I read it.

Perhaps you should consider the post above of the doctor who though technically on strike and therefore losing a day's pay, nonetheless went into work and worked a normal day, which is probably why there were few marching.

Those of us outside the magic circle of public employees can only press our cold, hungry faces to the glass and watch our had earned money being foolishly thrown at public sector workers.

So, if I can't get in no one else should be allowed to either, is that it? And did you train for 10 years to do your job and work 80 hour week, shifts of 40 hours without breaks and get paid a pittance for doing it? No, I didn't think so.

Good job you're in the private sector then. You must be a banker.

After all, £5000 a month pension is not enough for anybody, is it?

I agree - these bloody MPs and top Civil Servants, and the rest. And they get it only after 15 years too!
Good job they're not bankers, isn't it? They get that much every day!

What about the patients who have to put up with no sleep, no decent food, no showers and are ill at the same time?

Inconsiderate of them, what? How dare those doctors spend time actually making those people well so successfully, and under such appalling conditions? Do you think it would be any better if doctors were paid a pittance?

When I think of the TAX AVOIDANCE and TAX EVASION from wealthy people within this government and bejond , right. left and centre, who have no morals or ethics, holding the GPs to ransom re there work moral ethics "do patients no harm" I am very angry.

I know where I would prefer decent pension to go to, not the few, who look after there own bank accounts and there paymasters......To the few who look after the many....GPs for me, without a doubt. Same goes for all health care workers.

Health care workers be it from cleaner to consultant or Mr must not because of there great moral ethics not have a voice, must be heard. Do not let this government with little or no moral stance play the same old card. There is no easy answer. Tories will not communicate with BMA, too busy playing public divide card.

Full praise for the GPs...fight your corner. Both private sector workers and public sector workers are the many who will require NHS service at some point, your service......Not the few, they have there own backs covered....Private health care.

There is no easy answer...... Voice must be heard, after all "Listening Government" only to what they want to hear. Too busy raiding public sector pensions to pay of financial meltdown....Not caused by average man or woman. Most have earned there pension, paid into it for years. It is pure ideology from this Tory government. RACE TO THE BOTTOM.

When I think of the TAX AVOIDANCE and TAX EVASION from wealthy people within this government and bejond , right. left and centre, who have no morals or ethics, holding the GPs to ransom re there work moral ethics "do patients no harm" I am very angry.

I know where I would prefer decent pension to go to, not the few, who look after there own bank accounts and there paymasters......To the few who look after the many....GPs for me, without a doubt. Same goes for all health care workers.

Health care workers be it from cleaner to consultant or Mr must not because of there great moral ethics not have a voice, must be heard. Do not let this government with little or no moral stance play the same old card. There is no easy answer. Tories will not communicate with BMA, too busy playing public divide card.

Full praise for the GPs...fight your corner. Both private sector workers and public sector workers are the many who will require NHS service at some point, your service......Not the few, they have there own backs covered....Private health care.

There is no easy answer...... Voice must be heard, after all "Listening Government" only to what they want to hear. Too busy raiding public sector pensions to pay of financial meltdown....Not caused by average man or woman. Most have earned there pension, paid into it for years. It is pure ideology from this Tory government. RACE TO THE BOTTOM.

Clicked "post comment" twice, hence two comments stating same comment. Can't take one out.....Guardian can.

Mind you! My comment may be seen as not "politically correct" by Guardian. However, do not care if politically correct or not. Might have two comments deleted.