Should Peter King hold House hearings on Christian radicalisation?

Given Peter King's support for the IRA, isn't having him chair the committee on Homeland Security like getting Charlie Sheen to run the Drug Enforcement Agency?

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I dunno. Do Christians pose a national security risk? As the dominant religion of the USA, surely they don't need to use terror to achieve their ends?

Christian extremists are more scary because the government already listens to them.

I actually had to check that when you said it, you seem to be right, he seems heavily involved with paramilitarism during the 80's by offering pretty much unilateral support for the IRA - so his request to investigate Christian extremism (remembering that the IRA - an officially pro-Catholic (Christian) terrorist organisation by most western governments was openly supported by him) does seem.... ironic.

Separate from Mr. King's obvious support of terror inflicted in other countries, which makes him wholly unfit to "lead" even such an obvious witch hunt, the US (especially in the US South) went through about one hundred years of literal terror (physical and emotional) inflicted on a substantial portion of its citizens--via Jim Crow.

The US terrorists under (or during) Jim Crow were often employees or agents of the government (or its agencies or departments), but the cruelty and outright terrorism was also inflicted via cultural and "religious" imperatives and practices.

A flip side of all those US Republicans and "conservatives" wrongfully (or wrong-headedly) averring that the US is a "Christian Nation" should be recognition then that, at best, US Christians aided and abetted actual terrorism in the US for about a century.

Why should they be expected or assumed to have stopped now?

I think a good investigation into the support of, or aid in the infliction of, terrorism by US Christians and Jews (and by Mr. King hisownself) would be a very worthwhile and potentially cleansing thing.

Simple answer is No

The House hearings of King are farce and unless they are legally obliged to attend any hearing, Muslims and Christains should tell king, well literally, to F**K off.

Senator Mccarthy himself was a buffoon, thats why the American Intelligence community engineered Leo Strauss to mastermind the charge against Robert Oppenheimer.

King is acting like the infamous Senator and will end up with a career like his.

I think there should be a major investigation into the threat posed by the up and coming Buddhist extremists. Why i heard a report only the other day that the Orange network was expanding.

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I'd call the attempts to overturn science in favour of stupidity fairly radical.

I'd call the attempts to stop family planning and abortion radical.

I'd call trying to run a country based on a slanted interpretation of a contradictory collection of translations of mythical stories from the middle ages radical.

In their own way, these people are pretty much as dangerous as any other bunch of religious nuts.

Can you imagine what they would do if they actually had all the power they crave? It would start with compulsory teaching of the Bible as literal truth to all children. Once you have a mandate to indoctrinate children in any religion, before they have the mental faculties to analyse and decide for themselves, you have automatic believers.

If the reverse could be achieved, i.e. no child was indoctrinated before their 18th year, Christianity and all other religions would die out within two generations. Children brought up in a religion-free environment almost never end up converting to any religion at all. That's because when you can look at any organised religion coldly and logically, without pre-programming, they just look rather unlikely and a bit silly...

I dunno. Do Christians pose a national security risk? As the dominant religion of the USA, surely they don't need to use terror to achieve their ends?

The Oklahoma City bombing - carried out by a Christian right wing nutter and until 9/11 the worst loss of life from terrorism on American soil.

Christian extremists are more scary because the government already listens to them.

Listen to them, you cant get elected unless you are one. God bless America.

The Oklahoma City bombing - carried out by a Christian right wing nutter and until 9/11 the worst loss of life from terrorism on American soil.

I think you'll find that Timothy McVeigh was an atheist who said, 'Science is my Religion'. So watch out for people with Bunsen burners and test tubes.

...the IRA - an officially pro-Catholic (Christian) terrorist organisation...

That's not true at all.

Strange you should come out with such a statement bearing in mind many atheist surveys conclude that atheists tend to suffer from some kinda mental deficieny very similar to Asperger's:

True, calling religion a mental illness makes no sense, as mental illnesses are defined by what the norm is in any given society. It seems to me that humans evolved for religion.

If the reverse could be achieved, i.e. no child was indoctrinated before their 18th year, Christianity and all other religions would die out within two generations. Children brought up in a religion-free environment almost never end up converting to any religion at all. That's because when you can look at any organised religion coldly and logically, without pre-programming, they just look rather unlikely and a bit silly...

And yet, the US has a secular state system of education. And yet, and yet. And they take it seriously too, banning all religious displays in public - i.e. public - schools. The kids, of course, may be indoctrinated at home. How you stop that would be an interesting reply from you.

Strange you should come out with such a statement bearing in mind many atheist surveys conclude that atheists tend to suffer from some kinda mental deficieny very similar to Asperger's:

Strange that the blogpost you link to there doesn't say that.

I took the test and got a 14, by the way. How did you get on?

dunno. Do Christians pose a national security risk? As the dominant religion of the USA, surely they don't need to use terror to achieve their ends?

Christian extremists are more scary because the government already listens to them.

Christian exremists have killed thousands in the USA.
What do you think Timothy McVeigh was all about with his mixed up head?

I think you'll find that Timothy McVeigh was an atheist who said, 'Science is my Religion'. So watch out for people with Bunsen burners and test tubes.

He said that in 2001, but he was a Catholic for most of his life and professed a belief in God in 1996. He also took Catholic sacraments before his execution. He certainly wasn't an atheist, though not very religious either, and I think to attribute his actions to religious beliefs (or lack thereof) is quite wrongheaded.

Religious radicalism of any stripe is dangerous to the sanity and safety of Humanity.

Jim Crow.

The US terrorists under (or during) Jim Crow were often employees or agents of the government (or its agencies or departments), but the cruelty and outright terrorism was also inflicted via cultural and "religious" imperatives and practices.

Not to dissimilar than to the Northern Irish Protestant State - which in fact had many similarities in religion and ethnicity with the deep South. What they call Scots Irish, and we call Northern Irish protestants.

Not to defend the IRA - they were terrorists for sure - but the IRA were not the only "Christian" terrorists in Northern Ireland, and in fact the protestant paramilitaries were more or less sectarian entirely - the attack commemorated by the Ireland football team yesterday was an attack on people watching a world cup game and motivated entirely by sectarianism. The IRA was also so motivated, but also by politics. The difference is similar to the difference between the ANC and the Warriors of the Boer Nation.

This is relevant because British Liberals who hate on the IRA without reference to the other side are a bit suspect. Just saying.

I think you'll find that Timothy McVeigh was an atheist...

I don't think we will.

I think we'll find links to the "Branch Davidians", and to the Klan and to the "Patriot Movement" in general. None of these is officially secular - far from it.

The Oklahoma City bombing - carried out by a Christian right wing nutter and until 9/11 the worst loss of life from terrorism on American soil.

There are few things Europeans know less about than the Oklahoma City bombing:

"His final statement, due to be made from the execution table, will be parsed for every nuance of meaning in a nation still looking for an explanation of why a decorated veteran from the American heartland should commit the worst act of domestic terrorism in US history, killing 168 people.

McVeigh told journalists he would quote from Invictus, a 19th century poem by William Ernest Henley famous for the lines: "I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul."

In his letter, McVeigh said he was an agnostic but that he would "improvise, adapt and overcome", if it turned out there was an afterlife. "If I'm going to hell," he wrote, "I'm gonna have a lot of company." His body is to be cremated and his ashes scattered in a secret location.

In his letter yesterday he showed impatience at the speculation that he was part of any plot, beyond the role played by an old army friend, Terry Nichols, currently serving a life term for helping put the 3,200kg bomb together.

"For those diehard conspiracy theorists who will refuse to believe this, I turn the tables and say: show me where I needed anyone else," McVeigh wrote. "Financing? Logistics? Specialised tech skills? Brainpower? Strategy? _ Show me where I needed a dark, mysterious 'Mr X'!"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4

Sean Faircloth, speaking at Ft. Bragg, addresses the multimillion dollar "Spirituality Fitness Test" imposed by the U.S. Military.

The evidence of politicians continuing to play the religion card is around everywhere, it must cease. Religion is a disease of the mind and as a global pandemic causing suffering and stupidity in too many populations.

the Klan

Definitely religious. Also not around anymore. Well not so much.

The Branch Davidians were more a victim of terrorism, by the secular State. And nationalism is a product of the Englightenment. - or so sociology students say at least . I have my doubts.

Yes

Religion is being used by politicians as the new stormtroopers in disguise.

He also took Catholic sacraments before his execution

Do you have any idea how spectacularly wrong you are?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1382602.stm

Look, even I know that most Christians are OK people. Their beliefs strike me as strange but each to their own.

A very few Christians do bomb (legal) abortion clinics or shoot doctors who provide (legal) abortion services with the aim of discouraging others of providing those legal services. That seems to me to be terrorism and worthy of investigation. Whether a homeland security committee is the best method...

Do you have any idea how spectacularly wrong you are?

*ahem*

McVeigh took last rites before execution

You were saying?

Sean Faircloth, speaking at Ft. Bragg, addresses the multimillion dollar "Spirituality Fitness Test" imposed by the U.S. Military.

Seriously, are you just trying to advertise the fact that you enjoy being spoon-fed mendacious nonsense?

What is Comprehensive Soldier Fitness?

A structured, long term assessment and development program to build the resilience and enhance the performance of every Soldier, Family member and DA civilian.

Emotional:
Approaching life’s challenges in a positive, optimistic way by demonstrating self-control, stamina and good character with your choices and actions.

Physical:
Performing and excelling in physical activities that require aerobic fitness, endurance, strength, healthy body composition and flexibility derived through exercise, nutrition and training.

Family:
Being part of a family unit that is safe, supportive and loving, and provides the resources needed for all members to live in a healthy and secure environment.

Social:
Developing and maintaining trusted, valued relationships and friendships that are personally fulfilling and foster good communication including a comfortable exchange of ideas, views, and experiences.

Spiritual:
Strengthening a set of beliefs, principles or values that sustain a person beyond family, institutional, and societal sources of strength.

Yeah, these guys are real bastards all right!

McVeigh, who made no final statement before his execution, was offered a priest by Terre Haute Federal Prison Warden Harley Lappin. McVeigh said he would consider the offer.

After a 15-minute meeting with Nigh, McVeigh agreed to see the priest and take the final sacraments of the Catholic faith.

McVeigh was baptized in the Catholic Church as a boy, but had stopped practicing and recently described himself as agnostic.

So we're both "sort of" right.

...but the assertion that "Christian beliefs" has anything to do with the bombing is flat false.

I'd say he was hedging his bets.

All religious people should be discussed under the framework of mental health. It's a sickness that is getting worse, and often is encouraged by politicians.

Yes, its easy to try and suggest in our pluralist society that "religious people" are suffering from a mental illness, particularly if you are not "religious" and certainly don't like some of the things that "religious" people say and do. The trouble is that when doing so you are making some assumptions, namely that non-religious people are "sane", which cannot really be backed up by any data, but more troubling the comment is divisive and suggests a greater level of responsibility for those who are "non-religious", again something that cannot be proved in any way or form. That said, if it makes you feel better crack on.

Nationalism first reared its head at Bannockburn, at 1320,when the Scots pikemen caught the English half over the stream and annhilated them.

The Davidians were in fact victims, but hardly of secular state-terrorism. They were victims of the empowered gun-toters of the ATF.

Anyway- If Moslem radicalisation is a fit subject for Congressinal investigation, then so is Christian radicalisation. And so is jewish American support for Israel and so is Irish American support for the IRA-and I guaran-fucking-tee you that Peter King won't be looking into collections for the Cause and the Bhoys anytime soon.

Calling Asperger's a "mental deficiency" is just plain wrong.

Most of the difficulties are because of prejudice against non-neurotypical people, and because of institutions, social norms, etc. designed by and for neurotypical people with no concern for non-neurotypical people: for example, demanding eye contact, trying to judge people's character from their tone of voice, facial expressions, and body language, demanding participation in abusive hierarchy/dominance/submission practices, etc.

Yes, some extreme forms of autism are disabilities. But treating every form as a disability only gets in the way of pointing out the discrimination.

I see my comment implying people who are religious should be treated for mental health issues, has been moderated.
My bad, eh. I should not disparage people who believe in talking bushes and serpents. Obviously, this is quite rational behaviour

lefthalfback

20 June 2012 10:11PM
Response to pittens, 20 June 2012 9:25PM

Nationalism first reared its head at Bannockburn, at 1320,when the Scots pikemen caught the English half over the stream and annhilated them.

The Davidians were in fact victims, but hardly of secular state-terrorism. They were victims of the empowered gun-toters of the ATF.

Anyway- If Moslem radicalisation is a fit subject for Congressinal investigation, then so is Christian radicalisation. And so is jewish American support for Israel and so is Irish American support for the IRA-and I guaran-fucking-tee you that Peter King won't be looking into collections for the Cause and the Bhoys anytime soon

There is a great, sick irony that a congressman from Long Island - that has lots of Protestants and Jews - supports the IRA with its well-know hatred of Protestants and its strong support of Palestinian terror groups. The money his campaigns get from Irish-American catholics outweighs any sense of decency

I'd say he was hedging his bets.

Then, considering what's at stake, let's follow Pascal and hedge our bets, too. What's the worst that can happen if we carefully check out heavily-armed and angry apparent Christians, and what's the worst that can happen if we don't?

I do think - will no-one else say this? - that this Peter King is obviously taking the piss. More power to his elbow. It's bloody stupid to focus on any religious community. Someone mentioned the IRA earlier as an example of "Catholic terrorists". Suppose that MI5 had used their resources to follow devout UK citizens of catholic Italian or Polish descent and had disregarded atheists from Derry?

*
FredinSpain

20 June 2012 8:56PM
Response to BuckHucklebuck, 20 June 2012 8:32PM

I dunno. Do Christians pose a national security risk? As the dominant religion of the USA, surely they don't need to use terror to achieve their ends?

The Oklahoma City bombing - carried out by a Christian right wing nutter and until 9/11 the worst loss of life from terrorism on American soil.

Christian extremists are more scary because the government already listens to them.

Listen to them, you cant get elected unless you are one. God bless America.

in comparison the the UK. Other than Disraeli, has there been a PM who is not a member of the official state religion?

FredinSpain

20 June 2012 8:56PM
Response to BuckHucklebuck, 20 June 2012 8:32PM
.... God bless America.

We need His help with cloacae like King in positions of power.

Should Peter King hold House hearings on Christian radicalisation?

definitely, once Christians start to kill 3000 infidels at a time flying aircraft into skyscrapers on behalf of their religion

I see my comment implying people who are religious should be treated for mental health issues, has been moderated.
My bad, eh. I should not disparage people who believe in talking bushes and serpents. Obviously, this is quite rational behaviour

Perhaps it was because your post was a flame? I didnt report it but it did appear very childish, it came across as "All religious people are mad" which certainly maybe your opinion isn't really backed up and is the sort of comment which has the potential to lead readers to the conclusion that you have little to say.

Given Peter King's support for the IRA, isn't having him chair the committee on Homeland Security like getting Charlie Sheen to run the Drug Enforcement Agency?

When I lived in the Philippines I met a lot of Americans who simply didn't have a clue as to the reality of the "Irish situation".

One day (eight years ago) I was sitting in a bar with seven or eight Americans shooting the breeze when the subject of the Iraq War came up. I simply posited that I didn't understand why the US had invaded another country. The instant riposte to this, seeing that I was a Brit, was "when are you guys going to get the fuck out of Ireland?"

When I explained that there was an independent state of Eire that comprised 26 out of the 32 counties, and that we were indeed mostly "out of Ireland" I was greeted with howls of derision. They quite simply didn't believe me at all, even to the point of arguing that I was just ignorantly reflecting British government propaganda.

Let's face it, most Americans don't have a clue what's going on within their own country, let alone the affairs of other countries.

I am not sure what you mean by Christian extremist. To me the terms Christian and extremist are juxaposed to each other. I mean, I may say that I am a Christian extremist and to me that means that I am very active in and very vocal mabout my Christian faith; but I follow the guidelines laid down in the New Testament to temper all of my Christian activities.

If, when you say Christian extremist, you mean someone who harms his neighbour and hates those who hate him, then I would say that person is not a Christian. He or she may be a religious fanatic but they are not Christian.

Christ himself was definitely a devout activist in the work of His Father, but He did not advocate hatred or vengeance. (The example of Peter cutting off the ear of the centurion - Christ healed it, remember?). Christianity is a gospel of peace, not a gospel of violence. Those who use the name "Christian" to further a violent mission in life need to repent and read the New Testament.

I think that air heads should be treated for mental health issues too, but then I would be disparaging people who do not know what they are talking about, and that would probably be moderated too.

Nationalism first reared its head at Bannockburn, at 1320

No, nationalism first reared its head at Gallipoli in 1981. Bannockburn wasn't until 1995.

Long Island - that has lots of Protestants

Do you know America at all? Long Island is 7% Protestant. The Republic of Ireland is about 5% Protestant - less, but in the same ball-park (that's a baseball metaphor, I'm told).

the IRA with its well-know hatred of Protestants

Again, that's not at all true. I doubt whether the Protestant minority of Long island feel any more threatened than does the Protestant minority in Dublin.

I was caught up in a Provo bombing attack on England, by the way. And it cannot have been because I'm a Protestant, because I'm not,

Let's face it, most Americans don't have a clue what's going on within their own country, let alone the affairs of other countries.

The important thing here is to make generalisations based on personal experience.

Apology accepted.

Other than Disraeli, has there been a PM who is not a member of the official state religion?

Disraeli was Church of England.

But Lloyd-George was a Baptist. Harold Wilson was a Congregationalist.

Both the Conservative and Labour parties have been led by Jews, and both the Liberal and Conservative parties have been led by Catholics. The Labour party has been led by an atheist and the current leader of the Liberal party, the deputy prime minister, is an atheist.

Since you ask.

"...atheists tend to be loners/geeky and most likely, suffer from some kinda mental defeciency! Very similar to Asperger's..."

Your description of those of us who have Asperger's syndrome as "geeks" displays appalling prejudice. I hope you do not display the same degree of intolerance towards other minority groups.

I may also be an atheist as well as an aspie but so what? Many of us who are atheists - both aspies and neurotypicals - have studied the claims of the various religions and found them all severely wanting.