Eurozone crisis: George Osborne says UK could increase IMF payments - 11 January 2012

• Chancellor: Britain could be swayed by well-argued case.
Merkel hints at bigger German contribution to bailout fund
German bond auction goes well
Germany shrinks 0.25% in fourth quarter
Today's agenda

George Osborne
Chancellor George Osborne told the Treasury committee today that Britain might agree to contribute more to the IMF. Photograph: PA
Live blog: recap

10.15pm: The news cycle seems to have parked up for the night, so we'll wrap things up. Here's a summary of the main events:

Chancellor George Osborne has suggested that Britain could increase its payments to the International Monetary Fund. Osborne told parliament that he could be swayed by a "well-argued" case, although funds could not be pumped straight into the eurozone. Treasury sources say the chancellor has not changed position, but senior MP Andrew Tyrie believes Osborne is sending a signal to other finance ministers.

The Greek prime minister will hold talks over the country's debt reduction deal tomorrow. Government insiders insist the PSI negotiations are proceeding well. However there are also reports tonight that the IMF is considering pumping billions of extra euros into the Greek rescue package.

New economic data showed that the German economy shrank in the last three months. The contraction took the shine off Germany's 3% growth during 2011, but didn't prevent a bond sale going well today.

The euro had a turbulent day. The single currency rallied after Angela Merkel said Germany could put more money into the European Stability Mechanism, but then wobbled on rumours that S&P was about to downgrade France. It didn't, though.

Thanks for reading and for the usual great commments. Tomorrow should be a good day (with Italian and Spanish auctions, and Bank of England and European Central Bank interest rate decisions).

Goodnight!

10.07pm: Greek government officials at the highest levels tonight confirmed to our correspondent Helena Smith in Greece that debt-reduction talks are going well and in terms of detail should be completed in "the next few weeks."

Lucas Papademos Greece's new prime minister, Lucas Papademos. Photograph: KeystoneUSA-ZUMA/Rex Features

It will however take several more weeks for the bond swap to "be physically implemented."

Interim prime minister Lucas Papademos will, they confirm, be holding talks with Charles Dallara tomorrow (as Evangelos Venizelos also indicated this evening).

"Right now Papademos is looking towards elections being held sometime in April and probably towards the end of the month," a senior insider has just revealed.

Helena continues:

The revered macro-economist was installed in power in December at the helm of a three-party coalition whose mission is solely to push through the necessary reforms to finally win a second €130bn rescue package for the debt-stricken country.

That mission, of course, is vulnerable to the unpredictable getting in the way.

And as another very well-placed government source has just told me: "unanticipated shocks are anticipated. We are preparing for every scenario - whatever it may be and how we react to it."

9.39pm: A late snippet -- the EU summit scheduled for 30 January in Brussels has been shifted to the 29th, because of a general strike taking place in Belgium that day.

The power of the workers, eh?

News of the change, and its cause, was confirmed by Danish PM Helle Thorning-Schmidt this evening, telling reporters in Copenhagen that:

We have moved it a day earlier, and it really is because of the general strike.

Thorning-Schmidt was speaking at the ceremony to mark the start of Denmark's presidency of the European Union.

9.12pm: A something-or-nothing day for the financial markets has seen the Dow Jones index finish 13 points lower at 12499.

That's a fall of 0.1%, better than the 0.45% fall on the FTSE 100 today (it finished 25 points lower at 5670).

Wall Street traders took some heart from the latest 'Beige Book' report from the Federal Reserve. This regular US economic survey showed that conditions improved at the end of 2011. Nothing spectacular, but December's "modest to moderate pace" growth was better than November, when growth was "slow" in some districts.

8.53pm: Greek finance minister Evangelos Venizelos has called on the Arab world to help Greece through its financial crisis.

Venizelos gave the closing speech this evening at the 1st Economic Forum Greece-UAE 2012. In what reads like a rousing address, he said the support offered to Greece by the rest of the EU was not sufficient to get it through the crisis:

In this effort that requires very tough sacrifices of the Greek people, we need international allies. Undoubtedly, we have found such allies in the face of our partners in the Euro Area and the European Union. But they are not enough.

Our traditional and historic friends must come by our side too; and we will always be by their side. And those friends are in the Arab world.

Greece's finance minister Venizelos Greece's Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos. Photograph: Francois Lenoir/REUTERS

Middle Eastern countries are already providing some support to Greece through their membership of the IMF - with the UAE contributing 0.32% of total funds. I reckon Venizelos is suggesting they could take part in the large-scale Greek privatisation programme (airports, the state lottery, and even some islands are on the block).

Venizelos also told his audience that "an asymmetrical warfare" was being fought in the eurozone:


...between states, international organizations and the organized market entities on the one hand and the speculative aspects of the market on the other hand.

He also claimed that the long-running push to agree a debt-reduction deal with Greece's creditors was going well (despite reports today saying they are going badly):

Our discussions with the private sector regarding the PSI scheme have advanced and are now at a very good point. We are ready for a next meeting, maybe tomorrow morning, with our friend, Charles Dallara, from IIF.

IIF represents Greece's many lenders, who are being asked to accept a 50% haircut on their loans.

The full speech is online here.

8.20pm: There's an interesting report in German newspaper Handelsblatt tonight -- suggesting that Christine Lagarde has accepted that "tens of billions" of extra euros need to be handed to Greece.

According to Handelsblatt, the IMf accepts that the deteriorating Greek economy means that its second rescue package is not large enough. As things stand, Greece will not hit its target of reducing the national debt to 120% of GDP by 2020.

Where might that money come from? If the IMF decides it must make up the difference, then the UK might be asked to contribute -- putting George Osborne on the spot.

It also appears that Lagarde and Angela Merkel have agreed to bring the negotiations over Greece's debt reduction to a rapid conclusion.

Handelsblatt says that the two leaders have agreed that their goal is to complete the private sector participation "in the next few weeks". That would give enough time to sort out the paperwork and hand over Greece's next aid tranche before €14bn of debt comes up for repayment.

8.07pm: Tomorrow could be a hectic day in the eurocrisis.

Spain is holding its first sale of government bonds this year (it is selling three and four-year debt), while Italy will look for buyers of shorter-term debt (135-day and 364-day Treasury bills).

The Bank of England and the European Central Bank are both holding their monthly interest rate-setting meetings.

Analysts at Daiwa Capital Markets predicted that:

Both the BoE and ECB are likely to leave policy unchanged this month, but Draghi could possibly signal further ECB easing in the months ahead.

7.37pm: Philipp Hildebrand, who quit as chairman of the Swiss National Bank following revelations of currency dealings, is walking away with a pay-off of 900,000 Swiss francs (or £615,000).

From the FT tonight:

The bank said Philipp Hildebrand's contract entitled him to 12 months' pay. The first six months covered his notice period, with the remainder compensating him for a clause in his contract preventing him from working for another bank until next January.

Hildebrand stepped down on Monday, saying he could not prove that he was unaware that his wife was dealing in the US dollar while he was pondering whether to intervene to push down the value of the Swiss franc.

Hildebrand insists that he and his wife are innocent of collusion, and a pre-Christmas investigation by PricewaterhouseCoopers found no evidence of wrong-doing. However, the news of his payout is likely to put banking pay under the spotlight yet again.

7.03pm: I'm a bit late with this story, but it's still worth a read.

In Greece, local chemists are running out of painkillers and asthma inhalers as the Greek population suffer from the worsening economic crisis.

Bloomberg reports that:

For patients and pharmacists in financially stricken Greece, even finding aspirin has turned into a headache.

Pharmaceutical groups say that almost half the country's 500 most-used medicinesare in short supply -- including vitally needed products such as blood-thinners.

So why is the economic crisis to blame? One reason is that the Greek government has cut the price at which medicines are sold, to lower its own costs. That means suppliers can make higher profits by selling their wares in other countries.

Another factor is the weakening Greek economy:

Wholesalers and pharmacists say the system suffers from a lack of liquidity, as public insurers delay payments to pharmacies, which in turn can't pay suppliers on time.

The human cost of the financial crisis -- on top of the recent rise in suicides in Greece.

6.42pm: Over in the US, a sale of ten-year government debt has just seen investors accept record low interest rates.

The 10-year Treasury bonds were sold at an average yield of 1.9% - the first time ever that debt of this kind has been shifted at under 2%. Even that that low price, there was strong demand -- the bid-to-cover ratio came in at 3.29 (meaning the US could have sold three times as much debt as was on offer).

An aerial view of Wall Street, the heart of the global financial meltdown. An aerial view of Wall Street. Photograph: Cameron Davidson

This is the first auction of long-term US bonds since America's national debt reached the size of the overall US economy (a dubious milestone passed earlier this week).

Marketwatch has a good write-up about the details of the US auction, here.

6.20pm: The idea that the UK could increase its IMF contributions has gone down badly with Margot Parker, a UKIP parliamentary candidate. She tweeted that

Live blog: Twitter

@MargotLJParker: Eurozone crisis live: George Osborne says UK could increase IMF payments http://t.co/1I3mTd7b UK taxpayers bashed again eh!!

Sentiments that could be shared inside Westminster too....

5.48pm: So, how significant is George Osborne's comments this afternoon about the possibility of the UK boosting its contributions to the International Monetary Fund (see 3.10pm)?

The word from sources in the Treasury this afteroon is that the chancellor has not changed his stance on the IMF.

However Andrew Tyrie, the Conservative MP who chairs the select committee, believes that Osborne's remarks are significant. He told my colleague Jill Treanor that:

What the chancellor appears to have been doing is sending his opposite numbers a message that his room for manoeuour is limited, while at he same time he also appeared to be saying that he was not excluding more support for the IMF.

Andrew Tyrie Andrew Tyrie, chair of the Treasury Select Committee

The key point, we believe, is that G20 finance ministers are holding a summit in Mexico next month. The issue of IMF funding will certainly be discussed. If there is broad agreement to boost the IMF's firepower, then the UK government would be under some pressure to join in.

But a major increase in funding would need parliament's approval -- and many Tory MPs might block it (see 3.36pm)

5.24pm: The rumours this evening is that the negotiations over Greece's debt reductions plans are not going well. The situation is so worrying, in fact, that European governments may have to dip into their pockets and provide billions of extra euros.

Reuters quotes a senior banking source saying:

Private sector involvement is going badly.

Another reckons that governments are now "mulling an increase in their share of the burden".

The background here is that Greece is trying to agree a 50% haircut with its lenders. Some creditors appear to be playing hardball, while there are also fears that a 50% reduction may not be enough.

So how much money might EU governments have to provide? Dow Jones sources reckon it could be €15bn.

A man walks past as smoke billows from chimneys at a power station in Hefei, China A power station in Hefei, China. Will the Chinese economy stumble in 2012? Photograph: Jianan Yu/Reuters

4.48pm: Albert Edwards, one of the City's most famously bearish analysts, has warned this afternoon that the next 12 months will be desperately grim.

That's the bad news. The good news is that 2012 will be the nadir of the current crisis.

Edwards, who works for Société Générale, told a conference in London this afternoon that 2012 will be a stinker because the Chinese economy will suffer a hard landing.

He explained that:

It is hard to think 2013 and onwards can be any worse than this year if China hard lands.

(via economics editor Larry Elliott, who's at the briefing)

Why might China's economy stumble this year? There are several possible causes -- some economists fear the country's housing market could collapse. Other experts reckon its banking sector is hiding away masses of bad loans.

4.10pm: The Financial Transaction Tax raised its head again today - figuratively speaking - when Italian prime minister Mario Monti compared it to the Loch Ness Monster.

Monti said the idea of imposing a small levy on all financial transactions shared one characteristic with the Highlands's most famous resident -- it keeps disappearing, then reappearing. He supports the idea, but only if it can be implemented across the EU. As the Associated Press explains:

Monti, who studied at Yale with economist James Tobin, who first proposed the levy, said his one-time mentor likened the tax's popularity through history to the Loch Ness Monster.

"You see it, it disappears, then reappears," Monti said. "In this phase I think it has more sense than in others given the velocity of financial transactions, which can cause damage, and not just benefits."

Loch Ness Monster Loch Ness Monster. Similar to the financial transaction tax. Sort of....

But will the FTT slide back into the murky depths, or is it finally ready for the limelight? The French are absolutely determined to bring the tax in - and hope to draw up plans by this spring. Britain argues that the tax would need to be imposed globally.

3.36pm: George Osborne will face a fight with his own backbenchers if he does attempt to increase the UK's contributions to the International Monetary Fund (as he suggested at 3.10pm).

Parliamentary arithmetic means that Conservative eurosceptic MPs could defeat the plan (unless opposition MPs voted with the government).

Two Tories have already voiced their concerns this week. Conservative MP Douglas Carswell told City AM that:

I suspect that if the government pushes it to a vote they may well find they cannot rely on a majority.

A total of 30 Tories rebelled last July when the goverment asked the Commons to approve another £9bn for the IMF, cutting its majority to 28 (as Labour opposed the increase).

Sir Peter Bone MP also opposes Britain paying more to the IMF, saying last weekend that:

Enough is enough.

3.10pm: Chancellor George Osborne has just suggested that Britain could increase its payments to the International Monetary Fund.

Osborne is appearing at the Treasury select committee in parliament -- officially to answer questions the Independent Commission on Banking. The MPs, though, were keen to discuss the financial crisis, and ask whether the UK could raise its IMF contributions.

George Osborne Chancellor George Osborne answering questions from the Treasury committee on the Independent Commission on Banking today. Photograph: PA

Osborne reckoned he was the first finance minister anywhere in the world to suggest the IMF needed more resources. He then explained that:

"We are absolutely enthusiastic supporters of a well-funded IMF.

If there is a case to be made for additional IMF resources we should hear it from the IMF. If it is a good case then ourselves and other countries like Japan, like Australia, will look at that, I am sure, favourably.

[6pm: updated with fuller quotes from GO]

Osborne then skirted around the issue of whether it would be more than the 4.5% that the UK usually contributes... but also spelling out that any money should go into "general resources" and not to bail out the EU.

(with thanks to my colleague Jill Treanor, who is watching the session).

Britain's contributions to the IMF have to be approved by parliament. Last year, MPs gave the green light to a budget of €40bn, of which around €30bn has already been committed. That's why the UK refused to contribute €30bn to an IMF loan to the eurozone last month.

3.01pm: Afternoon all. The euro just suffered one of its periodic wobbles. The trigger appeared to be our old friend - the French downgrade rumour.

The euro fell to $1.2673 in the last few minutes, on rumours that Standard & Poor's had finally done the deed. This was followed by 'sources' at the French Treasury insisting that a downgrade was not imminent [by convention, rating agencies warn their victims sovereign nations before changing their credit rating].

The euro has fallen sharply against the US dollar today Source: Reuters

The Gallic denial sent the euro bouncing back over $1.27, before sliding back again close to a new 15-month low of $1.2668..... Something's afoot? The pound's also falling against the dollar ($1=£1.5344) as risk aversion returns.

Live blog: substitution

2.30pm: It's good-bye from me, Julia Kollewe. I'm handing over to Graeme Wearden.

1.43pm: Time for a look at the markets. The FTSE is down more than 30 points at 5665, a 0.55% fall. Germany's Dax has slipped 17 points, or 0.5% while France's CAC has lost 31 points, or 0.5%.

Markets were spooked by bearish comments from credit rating agency Fitch. David Riley, the head of sovereign ratings at Fitch, said the ECB should ramp up its buying of eurozone debt to prevent a "cataclysmic" collapse of the euro.

A strong German bond sale this morning was seen as a sign that investors were flocking to safe-haven debt, and sparked worries that Spanish and Italian auctions on Thursday and Friday may struggle.

Alex Paterson, a trader at Liberum Capital, said:

Because the German auction has gone so well, the market is wary that these [Spanish and Italian] auctions may not go so well.

But the sell-off on stock markets could also have a technical element to it as it came when the market was "at the top of its range," he said.

1.17pm: Speaking at her office in Berlin after talks with Italian PM Mario Monti, Angela Merkel stressed that the eurozone's top priority at the moment is to secure a second aid package for Greece. She said it had to be sorted out before European leaders could start working on how to boost growth and jobs.

The German chancellor said:

The eurozone's first obligation this year is to resolve a second Greek programme and finalise these negotiations with the banks so that we can then concentrate on structural problems in the eurozone.

The press conference has now finished.

1.05pm: The euro has clawed back some losses and German Bund futures retreated from the day's highs after Merkel suggested Germany may add more funding to a permanent eurozone bailout fund.

The German chancellor said Germany would be prepared to pay more capital into the European Stability Mechanism when it is launched later this year. The euro briefly leapt to $1.2730 from $1.2690 before the comments.

A bond trader told Reuters that the comments "seem like a change of tack" - suggesting Germany is taking a "more proactive approach to the crisis".

1.02pm: More comments from Merkel:

We have said from the beginning that we want to work closely together among the big economies in the European Union and especially in the eurozone. I don't need to stress that that doesn't mean that we want to exclude the economies that aren't quite as big but I believe it is particularly important that everyone of us makes his contribution to the stabilisation of the euro zone.

We also talked about the next summit, ... which should concern itself with the question of how we can advance growth and employment beside (the topic of) budget solidity.

I want to stress there are measures that cost money and those growth-supporting measures that are in the structural area, so it's important we talk about labour law, that we exchange experiences among one another.

12.53pm: Monti, for his part, is insisting Italy will work closely with France and Germany to solve the eurocrisis. Leaders from the three countries will meet on 20 January.

12.50pm: Merkel said she wasn't 45 mins late for her press conference because she was arguing with Monti - but because they had so much to discuss. The two have discussed ways of increasing growth in the eurozone - and she said there are ways of doing this that don't cost money - structural methods.

12.45pm: The press conference in Berlin has started. Merkel kicked off by praising Italy for taking huge steps on structural reforms and the budget. She also said it was positive that plans for a European fiscal pact are progressing. The next summit will not just focus on budget deficits but also look at how to encourage economic growth in Europe.

The German chancellor said:

We have followed with great respect how quickly the [Italian reform] measures are being implemented.

We talked about how positive it is that the fiscal compact has already made good progress in negotiations.

Helena Smith

12.20pm: While we're waiting for Merkel and Monti, there is more bad news from Greece. Helena Smith, our Athens correspondent, reports:

The country's development minister Michalis Chrysohoidis has this morning revealed that Athens' budget deficit will definitely be above target, predicting it will reach 9.6% of economic output in 2011, way above the 7.5% the Greek finance ministry had originally hoped for. The news came as Fitch Ratings also pronounced that Greece's financial woes could still exacerbate the eurozone crisis if private creditors fail to agree on a debt reduction deal widely seen as the meatiest part of a second package of rescue funds for the debt-stricken nation.

Sounding the alarm, Fitch's head of sovereign ratings David Riley said the country "still has lots of potential to plunge Europe into crisis" and that "time is running out."

Athens is racing against the clock to wrap up what have broadly been described as "extremely complex" negotiations with private investors ranging from banks to insurance companies on accepting a 50% reduction in the face value of the bonds they hold.

Charles Dallara, managing director of the International Institute of Finance (IIF) is, according to local media, expected to arrive in Athens later today in a bid to conclude the talks before international debt inspectors, from the EU and IMF, also arrive in town next week.

Addressing an international economic forum outside Athens, Chrysohoides was at pains to emphasise the "good news" saying that "absorption of European Union funds has exceeded all expectations". His upbeat take chimed with that of Olli Rehn, the EU's Economic and Monetary Affairs chief who is busy telling anyone who will listen that a second bailout deal for Greece is "only weeks away."

The EU and IMF agreed to part with a further €130bn in financial aid for the indebted country last October - if the deal is not signed and sealed by March when Athens has to cough up 14 bn euro to cover maturing debt, Greece faces economic armageddon.

12.13pm: Angela Merkel and Mario Monti are due to give a joint press conference in Berlin soon. You can watch it live here, from the Bundeskanzleramt in Berlin.

TradeDesk_Steve Steve Collins tweets:

Merkel's speaking in a min... any positive comments should offer an opportunity to sell EUR on the rally

11.53am: Barclays Capital warns that a skyscraper building boom in China and India may be a sign of an impending economic correction. AP reports that

Barclays has mapped an "unhealthy correlation" between construction of the world's tallest buildings and impending financial crises over the last 140 years, including the Great Depression and the Asian financial crisis. Today, China is home to over half the 124 skyscrapers now under construction worldwide.

India, which has just two skyscrapers, is building 14, including the world's second tallest tower, in the financial capital Mumbai. Barclays says such clusters of building activity usually coincide with periods of easy credit, excessive optimism and rising land prices, which often occur before market corrections.

11.45am: Bad news for orange juice lovers. Fears that the US might ban OJ imports from Brazil drove orange juice futures to a record high on Tuesday. Health regulators have begun testing all incoming shipments for traces of an illegal fungicide called carbendazim.

According to the Food and Drug Administration, a US juice producer had detected low levels of carbendazim in orange juice concentrate imported from Brazil, the top grower which accounts for more than 10% of the US supply. The pesticide is banned in US citrus but it is used on orange trees in Brazil to fight mould.

Meanwhile, cocoa futures rose to a 7-week high early on Wednesday, extending this week's steep rally fuelled by a sharp slowdown in port arrivals in top producer Ivory Coast following adverse weather. Arabica coffee futures edged higher while raw sugar futures were slightly lower.

11.32am: The latest draft version of the EU fiscal compact treaty has been leaked. London-based think tank Open Europe said:

After the last draft, this one now looks to be much more in line with the UK's demands and suggests that the UK still has some negotiating power or some allies willing to argue a similar line. For the eurozone, it actually may not be great news since it seems to be watered down in terms of enforcement mechanisms and is likely to breed fears over the potential weakness of the treaty in tackling the eurozone crisis.

Open Europe's director Mats Persson added:

This latest draft marks a provisional victory for Cameron and Clegg – the references to the single market are gone and the role of the EU institutions watered down. The fact that the changes line up closely with UK objectives suggests that the Government may have more allies than has often been portrayed.

The strengthened commitment to incorporate these new rules into the EU Treaties within the next five years sets the stage for another round of EU negotiations involving the UK, potentially another source of leverage for the government in the future.

At the same time, however, the narrower role for the EU institutions in enforcing the rules for eurozone countries that run large debts may be seen by markets as a weakness reminiscent of the original Stability & Growth Pact.

11.27am: More reaction to the German bond auction.

Jeremy Cook, chief economist at foreign exchange company, World First, said:

This was the first auction of 5 year German debt that has yielded less than 1%, and demand was strong - shifting €8.97bn against a target of €4bn.

This comes in the same week that a 6 month paper auction from Germany was sold with negative yields, i.e. paying to lend money to Germany.

It all suggests that despite all the 'soothing talk' from some members of the EU political class, the market is still very concerned about solvency, going forward.

This news comes a couple of hours after the initial estimate of German GDP for Q4 last year was revealed as "roughly" -0.25%, a number which could be revised lower.

This represents bad news for the entire eurozone. If Germany's not growing, nobody will be.

10.53am: Here's some reaction to the German bond auction, courtesy of Reuters.

Annalisa Piazza, market economist at Newedge Strategy in London, said:

Demand was super-strong with total bids at €8.97bn for a 2.8 bid/cover. The line was priced at an average 99.24, with no auction tail, further underpinning the strong auction results...The amount retained is a touch higher than average but the auction would have been strong anyway.

Richard McGuire senior fixed income strategist at Rabobank in London, said:

Germany's five-year auction went well. €3.15bn of the five-year Bobl was issued with the Bundesbank retaining €847m... This positive result has provided an uplift for the front end with short dated yields 1-2 basis points lower.

10.33am: Germany has sold €3.15bn of of its new 0.75% five-year benchmark bonds. The auction drew more demand than the previous bond sale in early December, with the bid to cover ratio at 2.8% compared with 2.1%. The average yield, or interest rate, was 0.9%, down from the 1.1% seen at the previous auction.

10.08am: The picture on European stock markets is mixed. The FTSE is down just 1.7 points at 5694 now while shares in Germany, France, Spain and Italy have edged higher.

10.05am: While the latest UK trade figures are not that bad, the outlook isn't great. Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said:

UK goods exports fell in November, reversing some of the huge gain seen in October and causing the trade balance to widen. However, exports nevertheless appear to have regained a modest upward trend in recent months, which is likely to have persisted into December. Trade is nevertheless unlikely to contribute strongly to UK economic growth in 2012, which looks set to be a challenging year as signs of improved demand from countries such as the US and China are likely to be countered by weak demand in the eurozone.

Looking ahead, there are signs that exports fared well in December, but the longer term outlook is one where 2012 looks set to be a challenging year for UK exporters.

10.02am: Some more reaction to the German GDP numbers. David Miller, partner at Cheviot Asset Management, said the lack of growth in the fourth quarter shows that Germany could now be on its way into a shallow recession and can't afford to be complacent about the eurozone debt crisis.

Germany's 3% growth for the year was respectable but the fourth quarter saw a marked slowdown, which hints at a possible shallow recession later this year.

The growth is apparent in the industrial companies that export but the financial sector is weak and domestic consumption is just not picking up.

The GDP figures today show just how important propping up the euro is for the Germans. Firstly, the euro is undervalued relative to what the Deutschmark would be, which is why the exporters are doing well. Secondly, German growth this year is dependent on health of export markets and, as the bulk of it's export markets are European, the euro must be propped up to enable growth.

9.47am: One of our readers, ballymichael, makes an interesting point about the meetings that aren't happening.

Hmm.

Note the meetings that aren't happening. Mr. Cameron seems remarkably blithe about the three biggest eurozone economies and the head of the IMF going into daily huddles with each other and discussing things like the FTT and Eurozone

Or possibly, he still believes he's (ho-ho) "Vetoed" everything?

Meanwhile, visceralpelican makes an equally valid point:

Cor Christine, easy on the sunbeds and fake tan

9.40am: Germany has had a good crisis, says Jane Foley, senior currency strategist at Rabobank.

Germany has confirmed a 2011 budget deficit of just -1.0% of GDP. Last September the European Commission had forecast that it would take until 2012 for the country to register this improvement. While the eurozone is most likely presently in recession and although German growth slowed in Q4, Germany continues to have a relatively good crisis. Last week both German unemployment and export data brought positive surprises. This was reminiscent of data in 2010 when Germany's economy powered ahead supported by strong demand for German exports.

In the first half of 2010 German exporters benefitted as the euro was pushed lowered by the Greek financial crisis. On a trade weighted basis the eurozone's nominal exchange rate is currently pressing below those 2010 lows which puts the trade weighted euro back at levels not seen since 2003. For Germany its adoption of the EUR in 1999 has been a remarkable boon to trade. European Commission data showed that Germany's real effective exchange on a steep downward trajectory between 1995 and 2008 and, after a modest appreciation into 2009, a softer tone then emerged as the Greek debt crisis kicked off.

Movements in effective exchange rate illustrate that Germany has benefited significantly from its association with weaker Eurozone countries. A Germany outside of EMU would no doubt be strangled by a sharply stronger exchange rate. While it is of huge importance that all countries within EMU adopt prudent budgetary policies, it is also imperative that Germany plays a key part in stimulating growth in other parts of the system by stimulating domestic demand.

9.29am: The UK trade figures are out. Britain's trade in goods deficit widened more than expected to £8.6bn in November, reversing the previous month's record narrowing. October's deficit was revised to £7.9bn.

Exports fell, especially to countries outside the EU, while imports of oil and chemicals hit record highs. The trade figures tend to be volatile but will add to concerns over Britain's ability to grow.

John Hooper

9.20am: Our man in Rome, John Hooper, has picked up this newspaper interview with Mario Monti in German daily Die Welt.

Die Welt this morning carries a long interview with the Italian prime minister, Mario Monti, ahead of his meeting today with Angela Merkel. His core message could be summed up as "Give us a break! We're doing our bit. Now let up".

Monti, who said he had "always worked for an Italy that as much as possible resembles Germany" (interesting to see how that goes down in Naples) said the key issue now was growth rather than the budgetary discipline the Germans are so keen to impose.

Italians were bracing themselves for a round of liberalisations that many would find painful. "The problem is that, despite these sacrifices, the EU is not meeting us halfway in terms of a reduction in interest rates," he said.

Monti will also be arriving in Berlin with a warning, and a rebuke. He said that, if all the euro was seen to bring was suffering, then there was a risk that Italians could be tempted by eurosceptic populism. And he told his interviewer the "EU's biggest mistake in the last 10 years" was the decision taken by France and Germany in 2003 not to respect their budgetary commitments under the Maastricht treaty.

9.18am: Germany will auction €4bn of the new 5-year benchmark this morning.

Citi analysts Peter Goves and Aman Bansal say:

We expect the auction to be well supported by ongoing demand for sub-5yr AAA paper as evident from the extremely low level of yields and recent strong auctions.

Live blog - Italy flag

9.12am: Some good news from Italy, where the public budget deficit narrowed to 4.3% of GDP in the first nine months of 2011, compared with 4.6% in the same period of 2010. The improvement in the government finances was due to revenue growth, of 1.6%, outpacing spending growth of 1.1%. In the third quarter, the deficit amounted to 2.7% of GDP, down from 3.5% a year earlier. Italy's official target is to bring the deficit down to 3.8% of GDP in 2011, from 4.6% in 2010.

8.49am: The European Central Bank's overnight lending to European banks has hit another peak, of €1.9bn, compared with €1.5bn the previous day.

8.31am: European shares edged lower from Tuesday's one-week closing high amid nervousness ahead of key bond acutions in Italy and Spain later this week.

The FTSE is now down 16 points at 5680, a 0.3% fall, while Germany's Dax and France's CAC are now flat after slipping in early trading.

Keith Bowman, equity analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown, told Reuters:

A touch of nerves is creeping back ahead of some significant debt auctions. If the auctions go reasonably well, investors will just leave the issue on the back burner and concentrate on the quarterly results season. If we were to see a badly received auction, then that could certainly cause further concerns.

On Thursday, the Spanish Treasury looks to raise between €4bn and €5bn from three debt auctions, including one of a new three-year benchmark bond, while on Friday, the Italian Treasury will be selling up to €4.75bn of fixed-rate bonds.

Live blog - Greece flag

8.21am: Greece and private creditors are inching closer to a deal on a bond swap to halve the country's debt load. Charles Dallara, the head of the Institute for International Finance which represents global banks and insurers, is expected in Athens later this week for meetings with top Greek officials. In October, IIF members agreed to accept a 50% reduction in the face value of their Greek bonds.

Greece needs to clinch a deal to secure further bailout funds from its eurozone partners and the International Monetary Fund, in order to stave off a default in March when €14.5bn of its bonds mature.

Under the proposal tabled by banks, private creditors will voluntarily accept a nominal 50% discount, or haircut, on their Greek bond holdings in return for a mix of cash and new bonds. They would swap their old bonds for new ones at 35% of their face value and an average coupon of 5%, along with a cash payment amounting to 15% of the old bonds' face value. This could lead to a bigger "net present value" loss of 60% to 65% for private creditors.

However, the proposal also includes a sweetener which would allow for a bigger return on the new bonds if the economy does better than expected. And it asks that the new bonds should have "pari passu" status which means holders would have priority in claiming assets in case of default.

Live blog - Germany flag

8.07am: Germany, Europe's largest economy, grew by 3% last year, as expected - down from 3.7% growth in 2010, the strongest since reunification two decades ago (and compared with a sharp 5.1% contraction in 2009).

Export growth slowed to 8.2% from 13.7% in 2010 but private consumption finally picked up, growing by 1.5%, up from 0.6%, according to the Federal Statistics Office. Consumers went out and spent more as unemployment fell, with the jobless rate hitting the lowest level in December since the country was reunified.

However, the German economy shrank by 0.25% quarter-on-quarter in the final three months of last year.

"The economic recovery took place primarily in the first half of the year," said Roderich Egeler, the head of the statistics office. "2011 saw strong private consumption," he added.

Jörg Zeuner, chief economist of Switzerland's VP Bank, said:

Germany cannot isolate itself so easily from tensions within the eurozone. In addition, the export sector is facing a difficult period given the fall in global demand. Another quarter of contraction and thereby a technical recession is distinctly possible. However if there is no further escalation in the eurozone debt crisis, the German economy should still grow in 2012, albeit at a moderate 0.5%.

8.06am: The FTSE has slipped about 7 points to 5689, a 0.1% fall. Germany's Dax and Italy's FTSE MIB are also down 0.1% while Spain's Ibex is flat and France's CAC has lost 0.2%.

7.49am: Here is today's agenda:

• German GDP for 2011 at 8am
• Italian third-quarter deficit at 9am
• UK trade for November at 9.30am
• German €4bn auction of 5-year notes at 10.15am
• Merkel and Monti meet in Berlin, press conference at midday
• Sarkozy and Lagarde meet in Paris
• George Osborne appears before TSC on banking reforms at 2.15pm
• IFF chief Charles Dallara expected in Athens today to discuss Greek haircut

All times are GMT

7.30am: Welcome back to our rolling coverage of the European debt crisis. More meetings of European leaders today: German chancellor Angela Merkel meets Italian prime minister Mario Monti in Berlin, with a press conference at midday, while it is French president Nicolas Sarkozy's turn to meet IMF chief Christine Lagarde after Merkel's meeting last night.

On the economic data front, German GDP growth is expected to have slipped back to 3% in 2011. It will be interesting to see how much demand Germany sees for 5-year notes at its €4bn auction today, after it sold short-term bills at negative yields recently.

In the UK, the trade deficit looks to have worsened slightly to around £8.4bn, after October's surprise improvement to £7.6bn. This would still enable the chancellor to meet his targets for 2011.

European stock markets are expected to open slightly lower as worries over the eurozone debt crisis ahead of Spanish and Italian bond auctions later this week outweigh recent optimism about corporate earnings and the US economy.

Financial spreadbetters are calling London's FTSE 100 index 13 to 16 points down, or 0.3%, while the Dax in Frankfurt is set to open 28 points, or 0.5%, lower, and the CAC in Paris is expected to slip 10 points or 0.3%.


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  • meljomur

    11 January 2012 8:43AM

    Under the proposal tabled by banks, private creditors will voluntarily accept a nominal 50% discount, or haircut, on their Greek bond holdings in return for a mix of cash and new bonds. They would swap their old bonds for new ones at 35% of their face value and an average coupon of 5%, along with a cash payment amounting to 15% of the old bonds' face value. This could lead to a bigger "net present value" loss of 60% to 65% for private creditors.

    This is interesting. Does this set a precedent for other countries like Italy, Ireland and Spain? I mean why should this apply just to the Greeks?

  • RobertSchuman

    11 January 2012 8:55AM

    Cor Christine, easy on the sunbeds and fake tan

    Maybe it isn't fake? She might have spent a lot of time in Southern Europe...

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 8:58AM

    Hmm.

    Note the meetings that aren't happening. Mr. Cameron seems remarkably blithe about the three biggest eurozone economies and the head of the IMF going into daily huddles with each other and discussing things like the FTT and Eurozone

    Or possibly, he still believes he's (ho-ho) "Vetoed" everything?

  • ludwigvonbeethoven

    11 January 2012 9:09AM

    Greece is offically bust, the other PIIGS not. Haircuts for Spain and Italy mean that the French banking system goes down in flames.

    Monti's ploy is different: he wants cheap credit, which I assume to mean that he wants the ECB to start lending, or else...

    Monti has been at it for only a few months and has little substance to show (yes, lots of plans and a showy raid in Cortina d'Ampezzo)) and already he's looking for an easy way out. Probably an Italian, he is.

    Angela's guys will beat up Mario's guys.

  • Ikonoclast

    11 January 2012 9:16AM

    Yep, Ireland think so and Portugal..but the Guardian are a bit off the pace on this, there's a storm brewing, Greece may need circa 70%+ haircuts to make the credit affordable and workable and we may be heading for a bit of a stand off with hedge funds who've bought a lot of the debt..if they're insured v a default they might just call what they see as a bluff and stick to the 50%. either way Ireland, for example, wants better terms, particularly given it's behaved and arguably would have had a few signs of economic life with a better deal..

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 9:18AM

    Monti has been at it for only a few months and has little substance to show

    Monti is a former EU competition commissioner. They're generally pretty tough customers, and all italians are not alike. He's also hiked the state retirement age and changed the method of calculating years worked for retirement (which, I recall dimly, was some noddy way of letting well-connected people retire early on full pension) to align with international norms.

    I wouldn't write him off.

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 9:26AM

    Looking around the german press this morning, with regard to the FTT.

    Rösler (FDP, Vice-Chancellor) has repeated his opposition. Seehofer (CSU, the often awkward bavarian sister-party of the CDU) is in favour. Schäuble (CDU, finance minister) in favour, Merkel "personally in favour but has to consult within her administration". Most of the german press appear to be in favour of an FTT within the eurozone along the lines outlined by the European Commission (ie: levied on any transaction, anywhere in the world, where one party is registered within the eurozone).

    So it basically comes down to whether Rösler holds that line. The FDP is ideologically pro-market and low-tax, but they're generally an undisciplined party and Rösler is mostly considered a weak leader. The first FDP candidate at state level has already broken ranks and come out for an FTT. Plus they're terrified that they're going to be obliterated at the next election, so they're behaving even more like a bunch of headless chickens then they normally do.

    If I were William Hague (or Nick Clegg, for that matter), I'd be instructing the british ambassador in germany to talk to Philip Rösler urgently. Since they think "protecting the interests of the City" is so important, and all that.

  • madeupname2

    11 January 2012 9:38AM

    Monti

    "The EU's biggest mistake in the last 10 years" was the decision taken by France and Germany in 2003 not to respect their budgetary commitments under the Maastricht treaty.

    I'm not sure I quite get his point here. Clearly it wasn't a problem - at least for France and Germany. Which would tend to suggest that a further program of fiscal rules and penalties isn't going to help the wider EU even if it is respected (not that it's that different from the existing framework anyway), because that's not where the problem lies.

    I guess his real point is to remind the Germans that they have also spent some time on the naughty step - but that this was conveniently ignored and they suffered no penalties - so ease up on us Italians.

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 9:45AM

    I've just read that interview with Monti (hat-tip to John Hooper for spotting it). Sensible stuff. Silvio Berlusconi trying to stop tax evasion and anti-corruption measures, huh? How there's a surprise.

  • fiveoclock

    11 January 2012 9:49AM

    then there was a risk that Italians could be tempted by eurosceptic populism

    this is the beginning of the end for the euro and all the suffering is bringing to europe. No more diktat from Berlin & Paris

  • HarryRogers

    11 January 2012 9:52AM

    "Silvio Berlusconi trying to stop tax evasion and anti-corruption measures, huh? How there's a surprise"
    This is so typically a nieve petrhaps English comment. Whilst teh Italians are quite open in tehir corruption the Brits are experts at deceiving everybody in their tax policy.

    Not so long ago the following:

    The wealth-management arm of UBS, under fire in the United States for its part in a multibillion-dollar tax evasion scandal, has more than 20,000 clients in the UK who have entrusted £37bn to the battered Swiss bank. Asked whether UBS faces investigation for tax abuse in the UK, a spokeswoman said she was unaware of any inquiry
    Truth is a rare commodity in the banking and tax world.

  • NicholasB

    11 January 2012 9:56AM

    The UK Trade stats are quite interesting. The fall in exports of 0.4bn was largely due to reduced exports of silver of 0.3bn principally to India (!) The 0.4bn increase in Imports was largely due to a 0.5bn increase in chemicals imports.

    Overall the trend seems to be for exports to rise pretty steadily. Since May 2010 the best fit trend lines show exports growing at 10.6% pa (R^2 = 0.79) and imports at 9.3% (R^2 = 0.86). Not too bad though not really good enough.

  • greenpeace

    11 January 2012 9:58AM

    he told his interviewer the "EU's biggest mistake in the last 10 years" was the decision taken by France and Germany in 2003 not to respect their budgetary commitments under the Maastricht treaty.

    I think so too. Their violations were mild (only 4%) but it set a bad example which irresponsible governments in the south took as a sign that they could go 10% and beyond... Nothing bad would've happened if we had good, clean governments like Nordic governments all over the world, but unfortunately it's not the case.
    In hindsight it was really stupid, instead of forcing taxpayers to pay all the price, the Germans should've asked EU for a reunifcation rebate-that money was only for funding the spending fest in the south anyway.

  • ShiresofEngland

    11 January 2012 10:04AM

    then there was a risk that Italians could be tempted by eurosceptic populism

    Populism: That being what the people want, but not the elites and their puppet governments.

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 10:05AM

    So? Rich people pay bankers, lawyers and accountants the world over to do tax avoidance (legal) or tax evasion (illegal). The boundaries of it vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and the swiss economy amongst others makes a big living from it.

    Italians no doubt are open about their tolerance of corruption. They elected Berlusconi three times, after all.

    An anecdote. Back a few years ago, the head of Deutsche Post was suddenly arrested for tax evasion - his name was on a list of customers at a Liechtenstein trust fund that the german tax authorities had bought for several million. (Cue much rhetoric in Liechtenstein and Switzerland about "gestapo tactics" by the german authorities).

    The point being: He was forced to resign from state-owned Deutsche Post the same day. A month before, he'd delivered bumper profits for Deutsche Post and successfully lobbied Merkel for a minimum wage in the logistics industry, thus quietty polishing off private-sector competition.

    We're not going to be able to stop tax evasion and lobbying. We can stop high-level tolerance of tax evasion. And we must.

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 10:10AM

    Yep. The real damage wasn't so much breaching the limits - like you say, it was a miild breach - , as the informal lobbying in Brussels that I assume led to the non-appearance of the paper sanction for breaching the solidarity and growth pact limits.

    I wasn't following the story closely, but I recall newspaper speculation about whether the EU commission would or would not send a "Blue Letter" to Paris and Berlin demanding action to get back inside the limits.

    The Blue Letter never came. Presumably the informal arm-twisting in Brussels worked. Like Monti said in that interview, if big EU member states don't respect the EU institutions, then they can't quarrel with the small member states doing the same thing.

  • greenpeace

    11 January 2012 10:26AM

    It was not "a naughty step" ( but a very stupid step). It was not like they used that money on increasing expensive pension funds or something they couldn't afford in the long run. Actually they were reducing their welfare system heavily. I would be proud of my government if could they keep budget deficit at 4% while building a country from nil. Morale-wise (if there was such a thing as morale in politics and economics), it was perfectly justifiable - if periphery governments were intelligent, they would've never abused that.
    Point is, it could've been avoided to everyone's benefit, both long-term and short-term.

  • nocolours

    11 January 2012 10:41AM

    Not true. In the Uk they do for avoidance which is remedied by clarifying tax law much that was muddied in the last decade. Getting professional advice on illegal activity is obvously rare, such activity is limited to big scams and cash in hand culture.
    In the PIGS avoidance isn't done much. Evasion is so prevalent and undisguised a mere foreigner like me can spot it without trying. It's cultural and not easy to tackle.

  • Kyza06

    11 January 2012 10:45AM

    Morning all!

    Quick question to the forex folks (specifically thining Canary@thewharf & Ikonoklast)...what's causing sterling to do so badly against the Aussie $ at the moment? It's been hovering around the $1.50 mark for ages, with a little fillip up to $1.60 in December, and now it's back down again...

  • madeupname2

    11 January 2012 10:50AM

    Not saying it wasn't justifiable or the right thing for Germany to do. Part of the point I was trying to make was that rigid fiscal rules, like the ones being proposed, don't allow for the sort of flexibility required under exceptional circumstances like reunification or a financial crises of the scale we're currently experiencing. The fiscal pact - and the breaching of it - isn't the problem. Pre-crisis Spain, for example, didn't breach their Maastricht treaty commitments nor is their debt particularly alarming - what is is their lack of competitiveness and growth.

  • fiveoclock

    11 January 2012 10:51AM

    Are you seriously implying that were you Italian you would not be desperate for government from anywhere but Rome.

    Democracy = "all adult citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives" - it doesn't say anything about little Napoleon and frau Merkel deciding who is running a country, does it?

    So what are we talking about?

  • regorderek

    11 January 2012 11:00AM

    Are bankers buying German EU bonds with such low interest rates on the assumption that when 5 years they will be repaid in a highly appreciated DM?

    A pointer to the future?

  • NicholasB

    11 January 2012 11:02AM

    Have you any idea how time-wasting and soul destroying such meetings are. PMs are quite busy people and even if he were invited the thought of him spending so much time on such unproductive discussions is depressing.

    The UK has enough problems of our own without getting sucked into other people's problems. It's their mess and they need to fix it.

  • nocolours

    11 January 2012 11:05AM

    I suppose and know from experienec elsewhere in the PIGS, the populus may well elect to have a foreign administration. No matter how much moaning and prejudice on here our government is always held in higher regard than elsewhere.

  • greenpeace

    11 January 2012 11:08AM

    I still do agree with governments making a clear point about keeping budget discipline. Maybe it was not Spain's problem, but in the case of many countries, and especially Greece for example, it was a big problem. They waste HUGE amounts of money on nothing at all. If you've read enough about Greece's bureaucracy system, you will see that this is a point worths being addressed.
    Certainly, I do not assume that some nations breaching that limit was the sole cause of this crisis and all the nations that asked/asks for a bailout now committed the exact same mistakes. That's why this crisis needs multi-solution approach. Killing corruption and the mafia economy. Collecting taxes more effectively. Improving rigid labor rules. Other methods to stimulating growth while restricting housing bubbles when needed... etc

  • moneymarkets

    11 January 2012 11:12AM

    @Kyza06

    Since Jan 1st, the top 5 major currencies are BRL, NZD, MXN, AUD and CAD. The bottom 5 (reading up) are EUR, CHF,GBP, KRW and NOK.

    Australia is the highest yielding AAA country in the world, and with positive economic data surprises globally, its been one of the currencies of choice for investors as risk appetite improves and stocks rally

    So, GBP/AUD below 1.50 for only the 4th time in 5 months

  • greenpeace

    11 January 2012 11:18AM

    And it's a mistake to assume that reasonable austerity and simulating growth cannot go well with each other. In fact in many cases one requires the other. Fire all the lazy or unnecessary public sector workers (which periphery nations have plenty), cut unnecessary public spending (which is sometimes even seen in countries like Germany or France) , take money from the rich and the corrupted (all of that would be considered austerity, right?), invest it in the economy (simulating) - what is wrong with that? The problem is finding a way to do this quick and successfully, not "Austerity or Simulating growth is the right way?"

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 11:18AM

    Evasion is so prevalent and undisguised a mere foreigner like me can spot it without trying. It's cultural and not easy to tackle.

    agreed. Which is presumably why the greeks went for piling the austerity costs on those employees taxed at source - far easier to administer than the tricky cultural job of making tax-collection corruption-resistant. Didn't work too well, did it?

    Cultural attitudes shift. German business culture was pretty tolerant of bribery (so long as it was abroad, to win a big deal) until very recently. That changed with the Siemens scandal.

  • LostCause

    11 January 2012 11:19AM

    He's also hiked the state retirement age and changed the method of calculating years worked for retirement (which, I recall dimly, was some noddy way of letting well-connected people retire early on full pension)

    You used to be able to make a payment to INPS that would cover the years you spent at university. I'm not sure whether this still exists but ten years ago it was already prohibitively expensive. I'm sure there are still some pensions privileges here and there in certain sectors, but they do not apply to 99% of the working population.

    Pensions are an important part of Italian society, mess with them at your peril because at present they are the only form of social welfare that there is, apart from the Catholic Church; they are a major stabilising factor during this recession. Of course it's not perfect and there have been major abuses and imbalances (as there still are, but look at the pension contributions of those using the Gestione Separata for example, not just those getting the best deal), but I am fairly weary of commentators from abroad talking about the dismantling of the Italian state pensions system as if this represents a step forward. It is anything but.

  • zipit

    11 January 2012 11:26AM

    Populism is not based on what the people need.

    You are correct - it is based on what they want.

    I want the "elites and their puppet governments". to meet the basic needs rather than the wants.

    Few people are going hungry in Europe. Lots around the world are?

    Not defending - just putting a different perspective.

  • SoAnnoyed

    11 January 2012 11:27AM

    Lagarde looks like she's been tango'd. Is it some sort of message of solidarity with the Club Med countries?

    And yes, I would say this if she were a man.

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 11:29AM

    Have you any idea how time-wasting and soul destroying such meetings are? PMs are quite busy people and even if he were invited the thought of him spending so much time on such unproductive discussions is depressing. The UK has enough problems of our own without getting sucked into other people's problems. It's their mess and they need to fix it.

    Indeed it is "their mess". But since the UK has blocked (for now, at least) an EU treaty change, and since the rules governing the Eurozone are EU Treaties, and since, as Osborne correctly stated recently, the prospects for the UK economy itself are intimately bound up with the eurozone crisis, I'm afraid it's "Cameron's mess" too.

    Of course, he doesn't have to take the time. He doesn't even have to delegate it to the Foreign Office or his European Minister, if he regards it as "other people's problems".

    In which case, he can't complain when the result is not to his liking.

    But trust me, he will complain, loudly. "You say you hate the euro, and then come here and interfere in our meetings", as Sarkozy told him some months back.

    The FTT is just an example of the areas where eurozone members attempting to "fix their mess" impacts UK interests.

  • nocolours

    11 January 2012 11:51AM

    Exactly. You don't change culture before next week's critical meeting, ad nauseum. There is no short term planning, before end of month planning is immediate.
    Greece hasn't got a tax system in effect. I can show you numerous businesses in Portugal that exist through evasion. Any remedy to that would see them go bust and the premises re-possessed. Hence a banking issue, now cifers have no idea about banking and see them as the enemy, but banks are essential.
    The bottom line the south is not compatible with the north. The south is compatible with itself, the Rome Euro!!!! Need to bypass politicos egos before we get there, sod the people.

  • zipit

    11 January 2012 11:51AM

    Not sure what a cultural attitude has to do with corruption?

    I do really – it’s when it brings you benefits and you don’t really care if you get caught when operating in countries that this way of doing business is the norm

    I worked for Siemens in many countries - great company. Great products. Aggressive and perceptive when selling abroad.

    Have not noticed anything different since they got “caught”.

    Impression I get from UK companies when working for them abroad - they were more concerned with the ramifications of being caught.

    Level playing field and European directives. Eh what!

  • fiveoclock

    11 January 2012 11:51AM

    If Germany's not growing, nobody will be.

    The nordic countries are growing more than Germany. And all are socialist states - they are taxed to the kilt, they pay their taxes, they are competitive and they are happy. Wouldn't be a good idea that the rest of EU takes a leaf out of their books?

  • NicholasB

    11 January 2012 11:53AM

    The US and China will also be impacted if the Eurozone leaders drop the ball. Should they be attending the meetings too?

    Any proposals that the come up with which impact the UK and which Cameron doesn't like he can, and will veto. You are free to do this if you are not party to the discussions. Remember the EU badly needs our cash (we are the 2nd largest net contributor) and they need access to our market at least as much as we need access to theirs (we run a substantial balance of payments deficit with the Eurozone). We are also the only large EU economy other than Germany that the markets (as opposed to the ratings agencies) give a AAA credit rating to. And the only EU economy other than Germany expected to be a top 10 global economy in 2050.

  • xxgorrasxx

    11 January 2012 11:59AM

    The fact that Germany and France leave EU the door open for Greece when they knew the accounts because both countries had a huge deficit and could target the Maastricht treaty, it is something we should have in mind. They should be the one paying the bill, but instead, they helping a country was going really well, Spain, to bankurrupt the accounts after the bubble. They have help to degrade the Spanish brand to levels we have never seen before in Europe, and I think that is unacceptable for a country with less debt than France or Germany. They started calling in the countries from the South PIIGS and from there , these 5 countries have lost any credibility.

  • VSLVSL

    11 January 2012 12:00PM

    I haven't been around for a couple of days because I was berated for pointing-out that the Euro still hasn't collapsed.

    Can I take it as read that as this isn't on the front page anymore that again today the Euro still hasn't collapsed.

    On a more philosophical point - when does a crisis stop being a crisis and just become business as usual?

    It seems to me that the patient's in a coma - possibly permanently vegetative - but I can't see that it's still a crisis.

  • ballymichael

    11 January 2012 12:01PM

    Pensions are an important part of Italian society, mess with them at your peril because at present they are the only form of social welfare that there is, apart from the Catholic Church;

    Pensions are an important part of every developed society, not just italian. And there's huge amounts of money riding on them, and an awful lot of misleading rhetoric. In every society.

    but I am fairly weary of commentators from abroad talking about the dismantling of the Italian state pensions system as if this represents a step forward. It is anything but.

    I don't doubt you know much more about it then I do, but I'm afraid one of the things all countries in the eurozone are going to have to get used to is commentators from other countries making (often ignorant) comparisons. And pensions is one of the classic subjects, because it's so damned expensive. And mathematics knows no borders.

    Currently, people retire in italy at below the average OECD rate

    and the demographic trends are alarming.
    (population trees in OECD countries) (excel spreadsheet, just compare the population drop-off in italy in the country graphs. Only japan has a similar profile.

    And italy's youth unemployment rate is among the highest in the OECD, and that's long-term, nothing to do with the financial crisis. Those are, you know, your future pensions contributors?

    I doubt I'm telling you anything the italian central bank hasn't been telling you for some decades now. And yes, there have been reforms. But I believe women still retire at 60, men at 65?

  • authurn

    11 January 2012 12:03PM

    This is interesting. Does this set a precedent for other countries like Italy, Ireland and Spain? I mean why should this apply just to the Greeks?

    I seem to remember the Portuguese asking the same question around the end of November. They never got an answer though.

  • zipit

    11 January 2012 12:03PM

    Course he can complain.

    What has the Euro problems got to do with a Tobin tax?

    Why are the two linked?

    Sterling has been devalued by some 40% against the Euro - is that the German Euro or the Spanish/Irish/Greek one?

    Did not see Ireland or Germany come to the rescue when the UK dropped out of the ERM?

    Tell is to the million or so Brits living/retired in Spain and France where their pensions are paid in sterling while seeing pensioners of those countries own nationals being paid more in pensions and retiring earlier.

    At what point has the UK dodged it's responsibility towards Europe and has not suffered the consequences of retaining their own fiscal independence?

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