It was depressing to be on the dole and having no chance of a job. Then I went to London which seemed to have soaked up all the work in the country. It's probably why the London-centric elite are so out touch with the average person.

Oh, music was better, far more variety than today's.

In 1996 the country was fed up with a corrupt sleazy government, packed with time servers who were lining their own pockets and ignoring the needs of those they were elected to serve.

Nothing ever changes.

Ah yes I remember that the angry young unemployed in the early 80s who were put on silly training courses that taught them nothing but allowed the conservatives to massage the figures. The conservatives blamed everyone from lone parents, teenage mothers, young unemployed, trades unions and uncle Tom Cobbly and all for the state of the economy. So in reality nothing has change and is unlikely to change any decade soon as the number who are unemployed continues to rise. I see no point in looking to Westminster for answers as all they are offering is another version of what was offered during their reign in the eighties and nineties.

This time instead of on your bike it will be on your own, create your own job as none are going to be forthcoming for at least a few years yet.

In 1996 the country was tired. The Tories had been in for 17 years and were as stale as last week's loaf, but the country as a whole was in good shape. The economy had been doing well for some years with good growth figures. Debt was going down and there was a sense that the unemployment was an unfortunate blip that would soon diminish, as it did.In short, it didn't seem so bad.

In 2011 there are serious underlying structural problems, massive overspending and massive debts. Our major trading partners are also in the poop and their currency is about to crash.

The government are new to the task, not old, and they are already loathed, but the only remaining opposition party have just left office after 14 years in which they went as stale as last years' bread. The financial incompetence, the illegal wars, the failure to deliver many of their promises and the lamentable performance of their last leader have left a foul taste in the mouth. Their new leader has the look of a school prefect, the demeanour of a school prefect and the debating skills of a school prefect. He is in any case tarnished by his association with the ancien regieme and his ruthless knifing of his brother.

All in all, there is only pessimism about 2012.

Happy New Year

41 letters sent applying for any job, without the benifit of Microsoft Word.
And 17% interest rates, though I owed and owned bugger all.

And no dictionary either!

It is funny how the left seem to endow the right with almost godlike powers..Undo in a year the mess created by a decade of socialism.

@ Greendragonreprised:

"In 2009 the country was fed up with a corrupt sleazy government, packed with time servers who were lining their own pockets and ignoring the needs of those they were elected to serve.

Nothing ever changes"

also works. How right you are.

Cheating millions
Gordon Brown

Whoops!

I had two experiences of unemployment in the 80s/early 90s, both quite different.

The first was between '82 and '87. I returned to my hometown of Sheffield after finishing university and spent 5 years on and off the dole, with a series of temp jobs keeping me solvent and sane. I also did voluntary work, adult education classes and made some very good friends. We were all in the same situation - young, intelligent-ish, unsure what we wanted to do. We really were 'all in it together' and there was no stigma attached to being one of the 1 in 10. Sheffield was a great place to be - a UB40 got you subsidised entrance at the Leadmill, the council put on 'Rock on the Rates' concerts, subsidised and sometimes even free. We'd regularly pile on coaches to a demo in London, against Thatcher, Reagan, nuclear arms, cuts, whatever.

In '87 I went back to university, then worked abroad. In 1990 I moved to the north-east of England with my partner, who was finishing his degree. There, apart from a 3 month temp job, I spent two years on the dole. That was the most depressing time of my life. I had by then got a fair bit of work experience, a PGCE and plenty of transferrable skills. I applied for every job I could, and got three interviews (one of which got me the 3 month job). Whilst I was employed, I applied frantically for more work, knowing that my chance of getting it was much greater whilst employed. I didn't get a single reply. Then followed a year and a half of nothing. The jobcentre staff were always apologetic that there were no suitable jobs. I spent the summers picking fruit in Kent to avoid debt. The recession really was biting, and I was older, trying to make a career in teaching, and it was miserable.

When my partner got his degree we left the country.

What was the country like last time that level was reached?

It was like ... err .... Tory. 'Nuff said.

In 1962 aged 15 I left school to 20 percent youth unemployment in NE England. I was six months getting a temporary job operating a machine 50 hour a week for two pounds twelve shillings

In 1983 my daughter left school after attending what was called a comprehensive but was actually a secondary modern with a small grammar school stream. Needless to say she was in the secondary modern stream. There were no jobs for anyone of her educational achievements. No places available in further education. Just the Tebbits of the world saying there were jobs to be had if one got on ones bike. I thought it a bit dangerous for a 16 yr old girl to have to move to a different town to get work so she stayed with us while I paid £300 for a training course for her. Unfortunately we picked a course that only gave a basic qualification not recognised by employers in the area Today she is out of work again after never having had a full time job in her life. Lots of part time ones but never a full time one and never one that would allow her to pay for an education to get qualifications to get her one. She is not alone in that. Many of her classmates from school have exactly the same experience. She is currently studying for more qualifications and I am helping pay for it out of my pension.

Roll on 1986 and my son leaves the same school under the same circumstances. Like his sister he is a bit above average intelligence but not much, Again no jobs and no places at further education. He was offered a place at the technical college but only if he could find an employer to sponsor him. Impossible at that time. The factories had stopped taking apprentices. Our own factory that in the 70s took on 200 apprentices a year had dropped the intake to 1 that year. I paid for driving lessons for him. That got him out of town and a job as a labourer. I bought him a motor scooter to get him to work 20 miles away. He crashed it after a month and was dismissed for failure to get to work that day. He was 20 years old before he worked again.

Both my children are now in their 40s and not alone in feeling their generation was betrayed.

If our youth are to make their way in the world they need the education and training to maximise their abilities. Already we can see this current generation slipping back to third world standards. Above all they need the chance. There hasn't been enough chances to go round for over 30 years

Employment? Well, the labour force has well nigh doubled in the last 50 years with women coming into the market. Second - automation. Macines are doing the work.

In that context, 2+ million unemployed is not surprising.

Three major peaks in unemployment, three major blows to British industry, three lots of lives blighted, in the last 40 years.

One common factor: Tory governments.

yes - life under labour was sunny and children had puppydog smiles and the rain tasted of chocolate and the rainbow never ended and and and and and.

Tory - bad nasty rain clouds.
Labour - sunshine rainbows and lollypops.

Complete bullshit - both as bad as each other.

Why does the working* man and woman vote Tory? Nothing changes, if I remember rightly there's a chapter in Ragged Trousered Philanthropists about this, from 1910(? or thereabouts).

I blame the press!

*not to be confused with, but inclusive of, working class.

To me, 1996 was probably the mid point of those years when everything was just about OK (i.e. between the early 90s recession and 9/11).

JezJez

It is funny how the left seem to endow the right with almost godlike powers..Undo in a year the mess created by a decade of socialism.

'Decade of socialism' ? I thought this piece was about the UK.

It is funny how the left seem to endow the right with almost godlike powers..Undo in a year the mess created by a decade of socialism.

Not as amazing as the right's belief that we've had anything even close to socialism in the UK in the last 40 years - New Labour's 13 years continued Thatcher's economic direction.

Because the Tories promise the world and economic prosperity and blame everything on the poor and feckless. Those who are expected to suffer are "somebody else"

Except it isn't. People have short memories.

Ah when the tories fuck it up its blame the tories blah blah blah.
When labour fuck it its well blame the tories because Labour are in fact tories so its the tories fault labour are like the tories and not labour because.....

grow up

Tory - bad nasty rain clouds.
Labour - sunshine rainbows and lollypops.

Complete bullshit - both as bad as each other.

Yes, but we are blessed with having more than two options; why always dumb or dumber? Is it because we, the electorate, are the dumbest of them all?

I lived through the 80's and witnessed the destruction of the UK by the then Tory government.Their policies resulted in decaying hospitals with low staffing levels, decaying schools, the creation of vast industrial deserts (particularly in the north of England, Wales and Scotland), cardboard cities within most major cities for the huge number of homeless people, a high crime rate, a surge a drug use, high unemployment, social unrest caused by a hugely divided society and a massive debt problem of some 42% of GDP and so on. Little wonder they were called the Nasty Party.

And, guess what, here we go again. Same policies that will have the same results. No growth just cuts cuts and more cuts.

britains never been right,ever since harold wilson -labour pm signed britain upto europe in 1975 ,before that date britain just traded with europe through the commonmarket signed upto by edward heath,and ever since joining upto europe in 1975 when ever labour was in power and then got voted out,they all ways left the incoming gov with a financial debt to pay off,(check on it)but this amount of financial debt left by the last labour gov was far bigger than the amount payed out for the second world war and their is not enough money coming into treasury to keep the public sectre going and their was not enough money coming into the treasury when labour was in charge,and thats why labour borrowed and the financial debt we have now was not all down to the banks.

People have short memories.

Ah, back to blaming the people.

;)

I lived through the 80's and witnessed the destruction of the UK by the then Tory government.

No, I was there as well and what you witnessed was the rescue of the economy from rampant unions where the unions controlled the country through bullying, fear and intimidation, to 'save' dead men walking industries.

You may call them 'the nasty party' but they got more votes than Labour did in the last election, so what does that make Labour ?

Now it will be worse as the non-productive public sector is a far larger drain on the economy than in the 1980's. Maybe the public sector employees who have created our bureaucratic nightmare that is our economic system, could start up businesses and create some wealth and employ their children to glean the rewards of private industry that are derided so much by the public sector ? Then they can find out what its like trying to give yourself a public sector type pension without going bust.

Or would they find that the mess that the public sector has created though bureaucracy and red tape, stops them from starting their own businesses.

I think we all know the answer to that.

You may call them 'the nasty party' but they got more votes than Labour did in the last election, so what does that make Labour ?

Or in other words:

"The best thing since my pet rabbit died was Crossing the road outside my house and getting a bus in the face"

Now it will be worse as the non-productive public sector is a far larger drain on the economy than in the 1980's.

Every pound that goes into the public sector winds up with the private sector. Think about it.

No, I was there as well and what you witnessed was the rescue of the economy from rampant unions where the unions controlled the country through bullying, fear and intimidation, to 'save' dead men walking industries.

Were the trades unions responsible for the lack of investment in new technology, R&D, the ending of apprenticeships and the movement of money (profits) out our industries and into financial services? If the unions were responsible for all of that then yes they were responsible for the decline of British industry

indeed labour rec'd less votes than the tories

and the tories didn't get enough to form a government, even with the full backing of offshore millionaires and most of the media and an imploding Labour government

what does that make them?

Welcome to Osborne's Living Museum of the 1980s - enquire within for prices, all welcome.

People have short memories.

Not in Scotland and Wales, we don't!
I was 13 years old before I realised that "Fucking Tories" was actually two words.

Last time that level was reached - there was a Tory government - That's the cause you're looking for.

This is national Pavlovian training in action: Repeat the treatment enough times, and we eventually learn never to let these people in power again.

This time, the stunt is a show-stopping miracle:

This time only - Watch the Tories create mass unemployment
Without a majority !
Cast your votes here !

Jesus Christ man. Here's a good tip. Sentences begin with capital letters and end with full stops.Try to keep them 20-30 words long. When you've written one sentence read it back to yourself a few times and, whenever you take a breath or insert a sub-clause, (See how I did that?) insert a comma.

Strictly speaking the brackets should have came before the second comma.

BTW. Labour promised a referendum on continued membership of the EEC in 1975 after Heath took Britain in two years earlier. Two thirds voted to stay in the EEC. I would have thought you supported the chance of a say in whether we stayed in or not.

At least in 1996 the unemployed had the consolation of knowing they were not in competition with cheap labour imported from around the world. Thanks Labour.

At least in 1996 they knew they wouldn't have to compete for jobs with people willing to sleep three to a room on a short term basis, allowing them to work for vastly lower wages than them. Thanks Labour.

At least in 1996 they knew that if they got a job and worked hard they could afford to buy a house or at least a flat. Or if not, could afford to pay reasonable rent on a home. Thanks Labour.

At least in 1996 they knew their social services were not hugely oversubscribed and swollen beyond functional use by the massive influx of cheap labour and accompanying families. Thanks Labour.

At least in 1996 they could console themselves with the fantasy that the Labour party might win the next election and look after the interests of the British working class.

Thanks Labour.

Every pound that goes into the public sector winds up with the private sector.

Let's just cut out the middleman then.

Fair point, fair point: Both parties get it wrong.

However, the Tories have a greater natural afinity with unemployment: They don't mind it. Some even welcome it - good for business (if you think only about labour costs).

So history does teach us not to vote Tory no matter what happens, in an economic downturn.
It may be good for business in the medium term, but it's not good for the average citizen, who bears the brunt of a return to competitivity.

I'm not objective because I think the Tories are vermin, much like Nye Bevan

But I'm trying, and history does at least seem to support that: In a crisis, do NOT vote tory. Ever.

It was desperate before but it's even more sinister now, the Tories are far worse this time around.

irussell
16 December 2011 1:42PM
Why does the working* man and woman vote Tory? Nothing changes, if I remember rightly there's a chapter in Ragged Trousered Philanthropists about this, from 1910(? or thereabouts).

I blame the press!

Trouser Press?

@ Regal 1.52pm

Harold Wilson did not sign us up for anything in 1976 with regard to the EEC/EU.

He was the last primeminister to give the British public a choice in or out,and as a much more sensible country then and no murdoch propoganda we chose to stay in !

I thought thats what all you Eurosceptics wanted now ?

If you look into a few history books you will find its Tories that have signed on to most of the main treaty changes.

Sorry to go of thread.

In the 1990s a lot of people in their 50s, like my husband, were given early retirement packages as organisations slimmed down. Today we have the ridiculous situation that while youth unemployment rises to over a million, older workers are expected to work till they drop - and legislation passed by this government (why was it not delayed?) gives older workers the right to carry on even though they're probably past their best. Technology, too, has made a difference to the jobs market as self-service becomes the norm, while volunteers are expected to do jobs previously done by paid workers. Contrary to ConDem beliefs, we cannot leave it to entrepreneurs to provide all the answers. We need a strong state to direct and educate the workforce and to ensure that money is more evenly spread across the sectors, and across the country.

Undo in a year the mess created by a decade of socialism.

What decade of Socialism? Where?

My hopes and prospects were casualties of the last round: lost generation of the early '90s. I don't want to see another generation go through what I've had (and have): the endless rejections, the unemployment, and the temporary employment way below my qualifications and abilities. I despair of ever having a steady job: 3 years was longest contract I've ever had. I'm 46, a PhD but no pension, on less than £8 an hour.

Let's just cut out the middleman then

Like this you mean.

The Tech City Initiative has so far cost £1.79m, we learn, with "business specialists" bleeding the taxpayer for the majority of it: £1.171m including expenses.

And some FOIA requests were refused flat out: PA Consulting and Grant Thornton declined to reveal salaries of their consultants and BIS refused to disclose the salary of Eric Van der Kleij, the "CEO" of Tech City.

London 'Tech City' quango burns through £1m on admin

bloody conservatives

Worse than last time ? it depends - which do you mean like last time ?

Under Thatcher, it felt more malignant than now. Those that came after seem relatively forgettable.

Maybe I'm missing it - what do you see as far worse this time 'round ?

On thread

The difference between then and now is they the Tories actually believed
that finance and the service industry was going to be our saviour.

Now of course we know its a busted flush and its still groundhog day for the tories and the same elite assett strippers!

It also has to be said that its about power something the Tories believe is there birthright.At the end of the 70,s it was looking like Labour were becoming the natural party of government.

So then as today the priorities of the Tories is power they smashed the unions as much for that as they did fir strikes,they gerrymander as with the poll tax and aka Dame Shirley Porter.What are there prioroties today the same to get past 2013 when they can consolidate the English constituencies.

Just read "In Place Of Fear" again and either Nye Bevan was psychic or Tories have always hated the British people and always will.

Mind you the current reportage of the BBC would probably see it as a "labour pool of underutilised resources" which will "see the country flourish and a new Empire emerge."

This morning they were even contradicting their own website over the forthcoming Eurozone meeting.

What has changed. We lived in a capitalist dictatorship then, as now.

well this paper championed Libdem.

It is funny how the left seem to endow the right with almost godlike powers..Undo in a year the mess created by a decade of socialism.

@ Greendragonreprised:

"In 2009 the country was fed up with a corrupt sleazy government, packed with time servers who were lining their own pockets and ignoring the needs of those they were elected to serve.

Nothing ever changes"

also works. How right you are.

Where has had a decade of socialism. I'm in the UK and we've had 30 years the Neo-Liberal rampant unremorseful capitalism that has left us a broken society with little commonality.

The desire for change in 2009 was very different from that in 1996. In 1996 people not only know what they rejected, they knew what they wanted. In 2009 people only knew what they didn't want; there was no consensus as to what to replace it with.

To put it in simpler terms for you, in 1996 people wanted a shift to the left, in 2009 some people wanted a shift to the right whilst others were still waiting for the shift to the left.

Let's just say there's an insidious thread that binds them all together - They're all in it together. They do not have the figurehead as in Thatcher's days, they dont need one, it's all mapped out for them, bastards.