Quote: "And users won't be able to install Firefox, Opera,IE, or any third party browser."

You folks at Adobe keep on repeating this same FUD over and over and over. It is completely wrong.

Please visit the App Store and search for "web browsers". How many third party browsers are there available in that list? The answer is lots and lots and lots. Apple has been permitting third party browsers for the iPhone OS for well over a year now.

Firefox, Opera and MS would be perfectly capable of shipping a browser on the iPhone if they used WebKit for their rendering engine. What they aren't allowed to do is ship a browser using a non-WebKit rendering engine. So what you really mean to say is that Apple isn't allowing non-WebKit rendering engines on the iPhone.

In other news, what did Mozilla do with their latest beta release of mobile Firefox for the maemo platform today? They turned off plug-in support because the performance of Flash is so abysmal. You have to laugh, don't you.

How about you work on making a flash player for the mac that doesn't suck before jumping to other apple platforms.

I can't understand how Apple can claim with a straight face that the iPad will deliver the best possible web experience. They're effectively cannibalizing their own computer market. Obviously the best way to browse the web is on a computer with the choice of any browser you like, with the ability to run any plugins you like (including flash).

Apple just likes to create superficial buzz for their products and use words like "magic" to sucker the average consumer (and Apple fanatic) into believing that Apple has "done it again!".

I look forward to Flash on my Palm Pre where I'll be able to watch embedded videos in web pages, play various games and other things. Something the iPhone nor the iPad will be able to do.

"That's fine, we support your ability to choose, and don't want to require Flash Player on any device"
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you say this but isn't this what this entire article about?

"The Palm Pre, Google Nexus One, Motorola Droid, and other devices all run beta versions of Flash Player 10.1 beautifully."
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has anyone outside adobe seen this? are videos of this working on youtube?

"On the iPad, it looks like developers won't be able to write applications in Java, .net, Python, Ruby, Perl, or any number of other languages (including Flash)"
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isn't this apple's choice and given the popularity of app store devs don't seem to mind?

"At best, developers targeting the iPad are subject to a 30% Apple Tax in the App Store. And at worst, developers invest time and money building a product that can never be brought to market, because the only channel is one that is centrally controlled and entirely opaque. In every case, Apple is a gatekeeper on how developers are able to deliver content to their consumers."
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if adobe doesn't like this then why are you putting iphone app export in your next version of flash tools? if this is the case then don't support apples store

"It would be a disappointment to see that wasted by keeping it closed to outside innovation to protect the Apple Tax."
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disappointment to who, adobe or consumers? 75 million iphone and ipod touch devices have been sold and consumers like them

Personally, I was surprised at all the Flash-hate comments on your last post. As a Flash designer/developer, I want to see an open-source video format (like OGG) replace FLV/F4V, however, SVG and HTML5's canvas are not structured to support the interactive experience that Flash offers (My gut reaction is that Adobe should either start building tools that embrace authoring these emerging technologies or truly open the Flash format--rather than support a "platform" that could possibly be replaced by them).

I guess my question to you is, what is Adobe doing to try and get Flash Player on Apple's mobile products? I've experienced older Flash Players on mobile devices and seen video of the mobile Firefox's Flash video playback--and been less than impressed. Furthermore, What revisions is Adobe making to Actionscript to support touch screen gestures?

Finally, someone understands how closed Apple really is. Also the videos of the Droid and Nexus One playing flash videos smoothly makes me hopeful that I will be seeing a flash plugin available for download(or however the plugin will be made available) sometime in the near future.

One piece of speculation I hear time and time again is that Flash running on a mobile platform reduces battery life, increases RAM footprint, and can significantly impact performance. Is this FUD? Have any of these been significant problems on other mobile platforms?

Looks like you've done some very selective reading of your comments on the other entry if those are the only concerns you've deemed important to address.

Whether or not Flash gets to run on the iphone, ipad, or i-whatever is really besides the point. As succinctly put in the above post, what is really a cause for concern is Apple's closed ecosystem vision for the world wide web. EVERY developer should be concerned. As Doc Searles states 'There’s more reason to be afraid of heights than of widths.'http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/

Open, Opaque, Closed content standards: they're genuine questions for debate.

Flash performance on OS X: there is no room for debate. It stinks.

Can't you track that from my computer's Flash LSO ?

Adrian, it would be cool if you addressed the bad vibes on your previous post that you have not listed above. Two of them are:

- Flash runs abysmally on OS X (in Firefox and Safari)
- Evangelizing "open" while selling "closed"

The Mac and Apple community is obviously passionate about Apple and the devices they sell. Do the right thing, then, and start gaining brownie points from them:

- Address the atrocious performance of Flash on OS X and what Adobe is going to do about it
- Supply a straightforward argument about how Adobe supports "open" but also commercially supplies DRM-based tools to businesses that require it. It's OK to support both. It's not OK to pretend only to being open.

Otherwise, you're simply throwing fresh meat out in the open while surrounded by hungry lions. They will eat you alive, too.

Apple may be seen to close their platform to maintain a clarity of purpose for its brand, but the iPad is not the first of its kind, nor will it be the last. Assuming its eventual success, the iPad will help popularize the tablet device (in the same way the iPod opened up the market for portable MP3 players) not just within the consumer market, but also within business, government, banking, research and education -- sectors which don't necessarily benefit from the Apple App Store business model; and are not natural environments for Apple (the Blackberry is arguably the choice for business, not the iPhone, and PCs maintain dominance in the classroom). It's not hard to imagine situations in which a tablet device might hold up better than a laptop or smartphone in many of these sectors (the tablet is little like a digital clipboard). Judged by the number of big players currently partnered with the Open Screen Project (http://bit.ly/Q4I4s), I would imagine many non-Apple tablet devices will be 'Flash-enabled'. Henceforth, I'm optimistic. The iPad does not have Flash, but it might help put 'new' (non-Apple) technology into the hands of business and education users who might not believe that an Apple App is the best solution.

Apple may be seen to close their platform to maintain a clarity of purpose for its brand, but the iPad is not the first of its kind, nor will it be the last. Assuming its eventual success, the iPad will help popularize the tablet device (in the same way the iPod opened up the market for portable MP3 players) not just within the consumer market, but also within business, government, banking, research and education -- sectors which don't necessarily benefit from the Apple App Store business model; and are not natural environments for Apple (the Blackberry is arguably the choice for business, not the iPhone, and PCs maintain dominance in the classroom). It's not hard to imagine situations in which a tablet device might hold up better than a laptop or smartphone in many of these sectors (the tablet is little like a digital clipboard). Judged by the number of big players currently partnered with the Open Screen Project (http://bit.ly/Q4I4s), I would imagine many non-Apple tablet devices will be 'Flash-enabled'. Henceforth, I'm optimistic. The iPad does not have Flash, but it might help put 'new' (non-Apple) technology into the hands of business and education users who might not believe that an Apple App is the best solution.

I think Apple just doesn't care. Enabling Flash potentially creates competition for iTunes music, video, & app sales, and probably requires at least some level of additional work on Apple's part. So, if bottom level consumers don't care enough about Flash Player (and they mostly don't) then Apple doesn't care. Which is too bad for the rest of us who love & utilize Flash.

You should blog about how awesome Flash and other Adobe applications run on a real Tablet PC running Windows 7. The Asus Eee PC T91MT multi-touch Tablet convertable for example
(http://bit.ly/crcUeZ) seems very capable (in High Performance mode). And it's only $484 on Amazon, $477 on Buy.com.

I've been a Mac user forever, after I started working with graphics and layouts. Cannot say I'm very happy now, that I want to diversify, using anything my heart desires! Macs are driving me nuts!
Right NOW, I'm on my daughters Window's PC and the sun... mOOn, is shining bright and clear again! I've been having major problems, with my outdated G4, which has lots of gOOd oldies (not compatible, or better put, OUT OF FASHION) which all fit beautifully with my 18yr old kids puter! Back to rock+roll!
So, I'm no geek, but did take some basic programming courses in medieval times, when my teacher revealed I had spaghetti logic, and I thought it had to do with my italian genes! I've always had to deal with going under the table and switching cables and connecting us-bees, checking for updates and plugins and whatNOTS to make it happen! I'm too old for that now!, I just want the stupid computer to do what I'm asking it to, plEEEAAASE! If I can get my 6 yr old to obey emediately, why cant this 'user friendly' sun-of-a-gun connect me to my mother all the way across the world, using my outdated webcam, lowcost caller application, with a costly operator, and get on to the next task on the list of things I have to get done by the end of the day???
You all, who are so in to it, why don't they keep the perfectly gOOd things rolling and add only mOre gOOdies??! Now ThAt 's tAlking!! thanks for your patience, I've temporarily lost mine... pbg

Technically, Flash does not have to be enabled in order for the iPad to display the site content, since swfObject provides for relatively simple alternate content.
If the Flash content is dynamically loaded from XML or database, you can use PHP to echo the data into the HTML shell.
Apply some CSS and javascript to the div and you have content that can be read by crippled devices such as the iPad and cell phones.

Personally, I'm raising my rates for web development.
Thanks Apple.

As you mentioned, there is just too much Flash used in the web - a technology which doesn't have a real opensource-alternative. For example, YouTube-Videos don't run well on my linux-netbook and there's no way to run them smoothly with the Flash-Player. So why should Apple use it, if they never will have any control of the performance?

Flash still sucks on powerful OS X and unix machines! How would it not suck on much less powerful unix handhelds??

Maybe Adobe should stop providing their products for Mac? Then this company can immediately close down. Apple became big, because of Photoshop and other products.

As LEEF said, flash is a threat to Apple's money incomes. Flash or no flash ? Anyway Apple is gonna make huge amounts of money for years coming selling iPhone/iPad. Of course It's pissing me off to know that I won't be able to the whole web content but still...I'll buy an iPad for the very simple reason that there is no such powerful device on the market yet. I'm looking forward the day Apple will have to deal with concurrence as for the moment there is no. You're calling for innovation ? Why aren't you complaining about other manufacturers who are not capable to build equivalent product ?
Apple owns this market, as Microsoft was the softs big daddy so why should they care about implementing unecessary technologies to their dominance ?

Make Flash for Android, Pre, Windows Mobile etc available and impressive, and Apple will get under pressure from their (open minded) customers.

I don't need Flash, but I want to take the decision, not Apple.
Apple's business model is indeed very questionable.
But they are successful, one has to admit.

Bring back Flash 5!

Or recode Flash from the ground up/64 bit support

The time for slow, proprietary webformats is over and i and many others absolutely love that fact :)

For those asking "what is Adobe doing about Flash Player performance" (fair questions), you should read up on Flash Player 10.1. (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/)

Adobe has put in significant effort and made some impressive advances in optimizing the full Flash Player for mobile devices including mobile hardware acceleration, multi-touch gesture support, memory and CPU usage optimizations, and more.

@Adrian, I'm not sure your innovation argument is really justified. I know that common sense says that "closed == limits innovation", but for better or worse I think the Apple app ecosystem has actually disproved that. There has been SO much innovation in the wares appearing on the Apple App Store. The 1st gen iPhone I bought at launch is now a completely different and much more useful device thanks to the innovative iPhone SDK developers out there.

That said, one of the biggest selling points of the iPhone was that the mobile Safari browser promised a "no compromises" web browsing experience on smart phones for the first time. It pains me that Apple can't realize that their decision not to support Flash contradicts that original principle.

I'm a 100% PC user, Apple never saw an € from me, but I can see why they don't want Flash.
Until Adobe doesn't rethink their crappy update schedule (especially when it comes to critical security holes), it's a wise decision of Apple not to use Flash.

Flash made my Mac's crash so often, I'm not even angry anymore when it happens. It's simply not stable in every situation. I can understand Apple in not supporting this, "Format", they would ruin the browsing experience on the iPad with such "still beta" software.

>"Flash technology isn't open" -- The Flash file format >specifications are open and unrestricted, so Apple can build >their own Flash Player if they want. If Apple wants the source >code to the Flash Player, we're happy to provide it, just as we >have to many other device manufacturers.

sorry guys, but it is your product, why should apple fix this for you?

Speaking about the AppStore and the Apple-TAX: please consider that to
create a real-world mobile strategy, Adobe NEEDs to think about how to deliver applications created with Flash. The Apple strategy was perfect
to create a workflow that essentially close the chain between company/developers
and users.

I remember a lot of promises from Adobe when starting develop
Flash Lite (marketplace etc.) but all of those promises missed. I
pushed a lot on Flash Platform with my clients and also for enterprise
solutions but Adobe really need another step forward to call back a lot
of developers that leave the Flash Platform on mobile market simply
because Adobe forgot us (SymbianSigned content delivery in example?)...

Adrian, to be honest, the Flash Player is not really necessary for the internet browsing if the next generation website will move on a new content-based structure. On the other hand, the Flash Platform could be a good starting point to create install based applications on different devices. Why do not move forward (and fast) on this way instead of thinking about the strategy of a company that essentially Adobe ignored in the last years? Adobe was the first that *forgot* to implement the mouse wheel support on mac... :-)

Are you nuts?
Flash seems to be the worst piece of code ever compiled! I'm sitting at an Quad Core PC, 8 GB of RAM, 1 GB GeForce Graphics Card and the most up to date Flash (beta) and Linux kernel.
And it sucks! Playing back HD videos in full screen uses more ressources than running three (!) versions of Microsoft Windows in a virtual machine at once.

Flash is a pain in the ass. It doesn't work porperly on any platform and is responsible for useless cpu-drain and browser-crashes. This is not just FUD, this is a fact i experience every single day. And this is also a reason, why i have flashblocker as a personal standard plugin.

So i totaly understand the reasoning behind S.J. comment, but i find it nevertheless ironic for it to come from apple.

So folks at adobe: Wake up! Your player sucks! Improve it, or flash will become obsolete in the not to far future.
Since there is this HTML5-beta page at youtube i don't miss Flash at all.

I have used my netbook for over a week now without flash and i don't miss it - better yet: I dont' have to install flashblocker anymore! ;-)

But if you were able to overcome the obvious technical problems of your player, i would surely reconsider flash, as i'm sure S.J would either - so the ball is in your half now! Fight on! ;-)

I don't think Flash has any place on my iPhone until Adobe can get it running acceptably on my Mac desktop. My PC box has no problem and half the horsepower - and I'm looking at you Adobe. The fact that the majority of Mac crashes come from the Flash plug-in is possibly one of the most embarrassing statistics I've ever heard.

The truth is, I don't use flash that often on my desktops anyway. And most of what I do use it for is video - something that can easily be replaced by HTML5. I'm looking forward to the end of proprietary web technologies.

Just wondering ... does adobe have any plans to write a better flash plug in that wont crash our mac systems. Apple does not want to run a parallel app with windows, apple wants you to write a better app , not just a mediocre app. your app makes our systems crash .. using 80 % of my processor .. not acceptable.
please write a better plug in or quit complaining that apple wont use your buggy software. There, wast that easy?!

Flash needs a lot of performance, it's easy to see and experience if you browser the web. Also I'm Firefox user and I've seen enough websites with Flash crashing my browser session. Flash is a nice add-on for some websites, but most time people just use Flash instead of using a good website concept and good content.

I'm working in an Internet Agency - it's not easy to create REAL good Flash contents. The editor looks like a nightmare to me, although I don't have to work with it by mself. You need know-how to create browser compliant Flashes that look nice to the user and just work fine. And Flash is no replacement for good web design!

I'm not missing Flash on my iPhone, I would not miss it on a iPad, sorry - why doesn't Adobe create nice Flash Editor with good usability and provide stable Player software for each existing platform and browsers first. After this has been proofed you can recommend Flash as standard for web multimedia tasks.

I can't help but be reminded of how Microsoft lost an antitrust lawsuit when they tried to make Netscape run poorly on their computers. As Apple finds Flash a competitor to their app store they seek to shut you down. Their market share is small enough that they can get away with this, but if their market share increased to Microsoft proportions could they also be liable under antitrust laws?

Almost every argument in these comments are shallow and leave themselves open to an obvious rebuttal that one could figure out within 5 seconds of thought.
Please take a deep breath and calm down before you try and present your own rebuttal to Mr Ludwig and each other, otherwise you're just wasting their and your own time. As Mark Twain said
"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

i think how nervous mr. jobs react on the town hall conference speaking to his own folks shows how concerned he is about. how concerned he is about the fact that you can get all from google for free and all flash developers of the world will write applications for these smart phones.

when the lasst iphone user sees that he is not anymore hold a smart phone, then he will reconize it.

meanwhile he can look at 50% of the existing websites over his iphone and think he sees them all.

when the kids in the school will laugh about you because your iphone is just showing a blue stone, then is maybe too late for apple to react. now they could but steve jobs becomes to ignorant against the freeness of development.

google and the others will show the difference. for a webdesigner using flash an apple ipone is just a cripple.

and dont make me laught about the ipad. this thing has not even a webcam. is jobs thinking that video comunications is just a minor web standard currently and will blow away?

but with a apple user you can obviously do anything. apple has become for some users a religion and they dont see any negative whatever jobs decide. this remembers me of dictators as on future orientated visions.

html 5. showing video is not the same like a flash website.

the next google phone is my future phone. jobs just took the decision away.

I agree with Adrian. The specification for Flash is open so anyone can write their own Flash player. Apple has always been irrational about not incorporating good technology that is out there. Remember firewire vs. USB? - Arunabh Das

Adobe sells development tools. If their format is the dominant platform, and they are the dominate tool provider for that platform, they make a ton of cash. For its time, Flash filled a huge gap in the web's ability to display dynamic content. Many of us are thankful. However, sticking with flash in light of a growing demand for new tools, Adobe should maybe consider creating an amazing HTML 5 dev tool in tandem with Flash tools.

I've never had a problem with Flash player. If anything, it has single-handedly made the Internet understand the feasibility of streaming video. Real Player, Quicktime and WMV were not good solutions. When YouTube came out, it turned a killer ap (Flash) into something that was basically ubiquitous.

Just my .02 cents.

Jay | goldenrule.com

...continued from above

I was just thinking, Flash can continue to innovate by using all the data they can collect from usage statistics. There's no reason why they can't use their massive network/install base to out optimize HTML 5.

More .02 cents... ;)

Jay | www.goldenrule.com

It has always been like that apple has always been a alien to genuine users they don't wish to serve all the people .their only aim is a bunch who they find prospective.........ignoring flash is big mistake they have made ...they will also lose the bunch they are aiming for.....currently there is so much hype around this newly released i pad. Which will surely die down as people find out there is no support for flash...People will surely abandon it in the long run...i am seriously looking forward for it

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I was just thinking, Flash can continue to innovate by using all the data they can collect from usage statistics. There's no reason why they can't use their massive network/install base to out optimize HTML 5. Thanks Presentation Skills

The iPad should be able to support Flash and its components. You make great points as to why the reasons it doesn't support on the iPad.
Annabel
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What a great post. I really admire the people at adobe because it one thing to do what everyone else is doing but when you create something that no one else has you have created magic.

Thanks Kristy Taylor
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I think flash technology is so important for the ipad. If it works on on the ipad it makes it so good. The technology is so good on the ipad. I think it is such a wonderful tool. I use it on a daily basis with great success.
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Thanks for the great post. I think adobe has created some real magic! This is something that no one has every done before. I wish I had their knowledge.

Thanks Josie Lee
Maui and Tahoe Travel

The Flash file format specifications are open and unrestricted, so Apple can build their own Flash Player if they want. If Apple wants the source code to the Flash Player, we're happy to provide it, just as we have to many other device manufacturers. Credit Cards