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Reports and presenters CK-O Carla Kweifio-Okai; DD Deborah Doane; ZE Zofeen Ebrahim; SA Stépahnie Aglietti; CH Celeste Hicks
Interviewees Ramya; Assia; AGCT Ana Gabriela Caballero Tello; Muskan; Cynthia; Jennifer, Valentina
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CK-O The National Law School in Bangalore, India, has a programme just for children to get them engaged with law at an early age. About 25 of them, all from neighbouring villages, form a committee and talk about issues affecting them.
DD It could be lack of toilets in the school, it could be teachers not showing up.
CK-O This is Deborah Doane, she is a consultant and writer based in India.
DD And then the National Law School helps them to advocate on their behalf. It is a great programme. So they kindly took me out to a village, Bairagi Colony, only about 40 kilometres from Bangalore but still feeling very rural.
CK-O The village itself is made up of about 60 people and here's an interesting side note; every man in the village is an astrologer.
DD Astrology. Read palms and things.
Villager Yeah palms and all those.
Villager Out of the country also. Some people are living in other country and staying in America and England from this village.
DD From this village. Because of their expertise in astrology?
Villager Yeah.
DD So it's mainly women and children only who are left in the village. I finally recorded Ramya.
Ramya My name is Ramya.
DD They don't have any surnames in the villages. And tell me, Ramya, where do you live?
Ramya Bairagi Colony.
DD So Ramya isn't quite 13 though she is almost 13. She is very young sounding. Although people in the villages at 12 and 13 are still very young compared to in the UK.
Ramya [Translated] In the morning I'll sweep the house, I'll put rangoli in front of the house and wash the vessels and the clothes, and help my mother in the cooking.
DD When I finally interviewed Ramya I was really struck by how different girls are treated here; not only than they're treated in the UK but even how I was treated in the 1980s in Canada when I was growing up. So when I was Ramya's age sex education certainly talked about more than just the physical changes. I remember it being extremely uncomfortable at the time but we learned about emotional issues, we learned about mutual consent, we even learned about pleasure. Do you have sex education classes?
Ramya Yes. [Translated] We have (kishori classes where they teach us sex education.
DD Are you taught about the emotional side or just about the biology?
Ramya [Translated] In the class he'll teach us how to behave in the classroom.
DD In the classroom?
Ramya Yes.
DD So it's not really about sex education?
Ramya No that will be afterwards, only for the girls he'll teach it.
DD Even after all of the awareness since the Delhi gang rape and there's a lot of heightened awareness in the media about it, but girls in India, especially rural India, are taught that it's their fault if they're assaulted or raped.
CK-O This is a story from India that is becoming increasingly common. Only last week in Bangalore a six-year-old girl was raped in school. People have been out in the thousands in the streets asking for justice.
DD I read one report in the media that the school says they can't guarantee children's safety; that these things will happen. And you hear that time and time again in the media; that boys will be boys. So when Ramya talked about her sex education experience that they were taught about how to behave around boys, I realise how much sex education is failing girls and how it will do so little to overcome the massive inequities we see here between boys and girls.
CK-O That got us thinking; how different are girls around the world today? What's it like to grow up, become a woman, depending on what you were taught by your school or parents or friends? Today, seven girls all of that crucial age speak to us about their lives, their hopes for the future. This is the Global development podcast. I'm Carla Kweifio-Okai. Stay with us.
We'll come back to Ramya later. But first to Kigali in Rwanda.
Assia [Translated] Right now I sweep to remove the dirt. I do it every day. I also find grass for the rabbits and I cook the meal to help my parents.
CK-O Assia lives with her mum and dad on their banana plantation.
Assia [Translated] Here is my home. On the left it is a forest and a neighbourhood. This banana plantation here is ours. Mum and dad usually cultivate it. My school is behind this forest. It takes 50 minutes to walk there. It is in this room where my sister and I sleep. We sleep one beside the other on this straw mat. It is comfortable. I am very proud of that place. On the walls I draw flowers to decorate the room, but my parents forbade me to continue to do this. So now I only draw in my notebook. Here are soldiers who go to war. I copy that drawing from a book. Here is a drawing of the human heart. The mistress drew it on the board and I copy it. Drawing is an art that I love. I take great pleasure in drawing at the weekend and when I'm asked to do it at school.
CK-O We sent some questions along for all the girls we spoke to for this programme. And the first, it pains me to say, is a bit of a cliche: what do you want to do when you're older?
Assia [Translated] I would like to be a doctor because doctors save lives. I remember the day when a doctor saved the life of my mother. When she gave birth to my brother she had complications. It was very serious but a doctor saved her. It is from that date that I wanted to become a doctor.
CK-O It's a similar story for Cynthia in Nairobi, about 15 hours away in Kenya.
Cynthia I see myself as a manager maybe of a certain company, especially that of an optician. I want to know [how] to make the glasses even though I don't know any process or anything about it but then I know I will …
CK-O We sent reporter Zoe Flood to talk to Cynthia.
ZF And what's the problem with your eyes, is it that you're short-sighted?
Cynthia Yeah I'm short-sighted. Even if I'm sitting in front I cannot see the board. My mum could not afford that money to buy. So all the period that I was in primary [school] it was really hard. So when I be[come] an optician I want to help those people who cannot help themselves.
ZF Is your dad still alive?
Cynthia OK, I don't know much about him but I hear they separated with my mum.
ZF OK. So she's raised you as a single mum?
Cynthia Yeah.
ZF That must be hard work?
Cynthia Yeah I'm really proud of her because she decided even to take that choice. I see garbage, I see smelly sewage. I see struggling people, I see mending houses, I hear a lot of sound pollution. The houses are made of iron sheet because they get trashed, and sand. So maybe, for example, our landlord buys a plot then builds many houses to rent, then many people just come there you see, now it's very congested.
CK-O As someone who has seen this same view for all of her young life Cynthia has big plans for how she would change it.
Cynthia If I was the president I will change … maybe build the houses. I feel I would like to locate it. Then water. Even water spreads diseases. So I will treat the water then supply it everywhere. I will build hospitals because many people get sick but they don't have any other ways because maybe they think 'I won't go to the hospital government, it's expensive, private is a lot more expensive'. So many people just go to the chemist and buy medicine. I will change that really.
AGCT [Translated] My name is Ana Gabriela Caballero Tello and right now I can see my friends taking part in a volleyball championship for a good cause. I would make changes for all those people who don't have enough money. Also, I would do something to stop the crime in Peru. The crime gets worse every day. Every day we hear that someone has killed their mother or has poisoned their children. It's something that affects all of Peru and I don't like it. I would look for a solution. I'm a very democratic person so I listen to the opinions of the people around me.
CK-O Before she can focus solely on running for president Ana is currently very busy at school and at home.
AGCT [Translated] I wake up at around six o'clock to go to school. I come to school, study and carry out my duties as a supervisor and as a leader. Most of all, I have to try and get the best out of everybody. I try to put into practice everything I've learnt and learn more. Then I go and have lunch with my Mum as I do every day and go back to school for band practice. Then I go home to carry out my chores. My mother looks after my two cousins and I have to help her because her health is delicate and sometimes she has to go to hospital. So I have to wait until my cousin comes home, feed her, change her, help her with her homework. It's a challenge because I don't think a person can help someone else and concentrate on their own homework. For me it's difficult because I have several responsibilities that I have to carry out on top of looking after my cousin. I have to think about what I'm going to do tomorrow, or my worries like what did the doctor say to my mother; or, if something happens to me, who will look after my mum? That's what I have to think about. Before my mother had cancer. Now it's her back. In the last few days she hasn't been able to walk well and that's affected me because she's the only person I trust and if one day she is gone, I don't know what I will do. So I think I have to do everything now. I have to learn so that in the future I can survive alone. That's what my mother taught me; you have to seize the opportunities now because no one knows what the future holds.
CK-O Ana Gabriela Caballero Tello speaking to reporter Dan Collyns.
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This the Global development podcast from the Guardian. Today, we're speaking to seven young women, all 13 years old, all from different countries about their experiences, their hopes and dreams. So far, we've been to Kenya, India, Peru and Rwanda. Now we move to Pakistan. This interview was recorded and translated by Zofeen Ebrahim and Tonice Fatimer.
Muskan [Translated] My name's Muskan. I'm 13.
ZE Where do you live?
Muskan [Translated] I live in Neelam Colony with my parents, my brother and a sister.
ZE Where are we right now?
Muskan [Translated] On the terrace. Most days we have no electricity so I come up here as there is a cool breeze.
ZE What else can you see from up here?
Muskan [Translated] I can see the sea, that big shopping mall over there and rich people's houses.
ZE Have you ever been to any?
Muskan [Translated] Yes, once with my mum. I like their bedroom. It has a huge TV and a bed. There were so many nice things there. Everything about that room was nice. Today we didn't have electricity. It went at 11 in the morning and came back at three in the afternoon. Even in the morning there was no electricity from eight to 10.
ZE It must be quite a nuisance not having electricity?
Muskan [Translated] I feel sweaty and smelly. And then when there is no electricity there is no water either. I cannot watch TV or get any work done, not even my homework.
ZE Which class are you studying in?
Muskan [Translated] Grade one. My mother has also joined school with me.
ZE But you're 13. How come you're still in grade one?
Muskan [Translated] That's because I never went to school when I was little. Both my parents went out to work and left me at home to take care of my younger siblings.
ZE Why does your mum go with you to school?
Muskan [Translated] My mum never got a chance to study but she was always very keen. She will also get her certificate.
ZE Tell me, who do you think are better: girls or boys?
Muskan [Translated] Girls for sure … because girls can share their secrets with each other, share things, they're brainier than boys. My mother helps my father a lot.
CK-O This is 13-year-old Jennifer practising her violin at a music club in Elephant & Castle in south London. Her parents are Vietnamese immigrants but Jennifer has lived here all her life.
Jennifer I think now girls are more equal than before but still there are some sides where girls are lower than boys. Like there are some expectations that boys think girls need to live up to either in looks, mostly, talents and then maybe even your intellect. Some would say that girls need to be smart or boys are smarter and stronger. I think boys think they're clever. I think they expect girls to look pretty and keep looking pretty whenever they do anything, and boys should be the brains and stuff.
CH So do you think in yourself, do you try and live up to those ideals of what you think boys want you to look like or do you just dress or do your hair or your make-up how you want it?
Jennifer I do it how I want it because I don't think I should follow others. I'm quite similar to the expectation, like I like to look pretty and sometimes that's to impress boys but mostly to make myself feel confident. I do what I do to make myself happy or make my parents happy because I know that they don't have what I have now.
CH So do you think there's a real difference between the opportunities your parents had and the opportunities you had?
Jennifer Definitely because they didn't live in London, they were in another country and it was quite a few years ago when it wasn't as developed. And where I live there are quite a lot of opportunities for me to do many things and I get to learn many things. And my parents didn't get that.
SA Do you think that girls are better than boys?
Assia [Translated] Because if a girl should work hard and the boy should work hard, both of them will be just as successful in life.
SA At your age in this school do you have classes on sex education?
Assia Yeah there is, it's called life skills.
SA And who teaches them and what kind of things do you learn?
Assia It's like a club. I will just ask my friends because I've never attended. Any question that you have about life, anything that really distracts you or anything you just ask and you'll be given advice. But they wouldn't just tell you that this is what you're supposed to do, they would like you to figure out for yourself that this is what I'm supposed to do because maybe they may tell you 'this is what you are supposed to do', then you will be doomed and you will blame them.
SA And do you talk about issues relating to sex and to your own body, do you talk about it with your friends?
Assia My mum tells me everything that I'm supposed to know. About these boys I would say she does not tell me not to mingle with them but then it's not a bad thing being in their groups.
AGCT [Translated] I think we should all worry about getting pregnant at any time. Apart from the fact we've been given clear and precise advice everyone worries about this. Before it wasn't common to see pregnant girls but nowadays it's very common and it seems normal. Most teenagers aren't aware of this and don't seem to worry but to me it is worrying. If I had a friend who was pregnant I would help her even if her parents didn't understand her for whatever reason.
Assia [Translated] We have classes every Tuesday afternoon only with girls. The teachers tell us to avoid sharing sharp objects and avoid having sex. We heard about the condom too. We discussed about that at home too with my parents and sisters. My parents told us to avoid boys to prevent from getting pregnant. It is very important because I remember one of my friend who was driven from her home because she was pregnant. Her parents told her to leave with this thing she was carrying inside of her.
AGCT [Translated]: Yes in the People, Family and Human Relations course, which we started when we began secondary school, the teachers take the time to teach us how not to make mistakes, I mean in taking sexual relations as a game and not taking them seriously. Having sexual relations with anyone, leaving a girl pregnant and not assuming your role – that's what I mean by mistakes. I think when I'm big I'll have a big house or when I study I think about having my own children one day because I love kids.
CK-O This is Cynthia in Nairobi.
Cynthia First I would just enjoy life as a youth, then 26, 27 then I would be considering to get married. But that is not my aim now.
CK-O Do you want to have children one day, or how do you feel about children?
Cynthia Children, yeah I would like to. But in this environment all children … Yeah maybe I will just see how it will go.
Valentina [Translated] Yes only when I'm about 30, 28, 27 because I want to give myself time. Everything has its moment. There are people who get married when they are 20 but that's when you're at university and you're only just beginning to define yourself as a person.
CK-O This is Valentina.
Valentina [Translated] I wake up at 4:30, no at 4:00 in the morning. I get on the bus. The school bus picks me up at quarter past five.
CK-O She spoke to reporter Sibylla Brodzinsky at her school in Bogota, Colombia.
Valentina [Translated] We arrive here at school at seven and at quarter past seven we start classes. For breakfast I eat fruits, melo, arepa or different things. I get home at 5pm. It's a very long day but it's because of where I live because it's really far and sometimes I get really stressed because it takes two hours from my house to here. Every day I come and go, so it's very tiring.
I get home late and when I get home I do my homework and then I have about an hour free time and that's it. I relax and watch television and sometimes I read. My sister and I always wanted to make cupcakes and so we would look on the internet and we would make some and sometimes sell them. Then we decided to take a class with a woman who is an expert doing that. And then we made them and started showing them to people and selling them. The big ones we sell for 4,000 pesos and the cookies cost 1,000 or 2,000 pesos. We invest that money to make more and our profits we spend on things and sometimes we save it for the future. Once I managed to save almost a million pesos, I still have it. I don't want to spend it on candy but on something special, something different.
I have thought about making a donation to a foundation like for children with cancer.
Valentina I don't see anything that can stop me, except for that insecurity and other things.
AGCT [Translated] Today the obstacles for me is my mood changes; one moment I can be happy and in the next I can be sad. I need to learn to control my emotions. Another one is when you start rebelling against your parents as an adolescent. We have to know how to deal with these things every day.
Assia When you are a big woman you cannot do many things. Even if you say ? I see myself in five years or 10 years to come but knowing you are old, do you know you are a mature woman. You are then wanting everything.
ZE [Translated] Is it fantastic to be 13?
Muskan [Translated] I'd say life was better when I was younger. Now that I'm older I can't go out on the street. I mean I can go out but not as much or go and play there the way small kids do like ride a bike. The area that I live in the environment there is not very good. Boys misbehave with girls especially after they have had a drink or two. They even eat and just hang around. I'm not comfortable going out there and my parents don't allow me either.
AGCT [Translated] Children see the world as a game but as teenagers we begin to become more aware, more thoughtful and we see the world in another way. We look for solutions to our problems. We have duties to deal with but those responsibilities are what make us more mature.
CK-O Ana Gabriela Caballero Tello. That's it for this edition of the Global development podcast. Thanks to all the girls; they were Cynthia, Valentina, Muskan, Assia, Ramya, Jennifer, Ana, Gabriela. If you want to see who these girls are and explore their stories in more detail there's an interactive available now; go to theguardian.com/global-development.
Thanks to our reporters, Zofeen Ebrahim, Celeste Hicks, Deborah Doane, Dan Collyns, Zoe Flood, Stephanie Aglietti and Sibyllia Brodzinsky. Special thanks to Mark Anderson and Lucy Lamble for their organisational skills. The producer was Matt Hill. I've been Carla Kweifio-Okai. Thanks for listening.
For more great downloads to theguardian.com/audio.
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