Do Politics In Comics Alienate Readers?

I dont think so. It be same as watching a movie with political views

many books have super snide political views, babs, you have a good point!

@Larkin1388 said:

I dont think so. It be same as watching a movie with political views

Agreed. Same thing with music, I like Lupe Fiasco even though he has some political lyrics in his songs. It's all about the beats.

i think politcal points in comics brings a sort of involvement and intellegence to comics..alan moore seems to do this really well

If they are politics you don't agree with, yes.

No, we honestly hear politics all the time everywhere we go. So it just about impossible to avoid it, but I do wish that writers try not to mix politics with comics. They tend to just ruin the story if not written right.

I tend to think that politics do alienate SOME readers because the majority of comic creators seem to hail from one particular political outlook. I suspect that the majority of comic fans are also pretty liberal leaning which means including this type of political outlook in a book panders to your target audience. On the other hand, I tend to be somewhat conservative on a number of subjects, so I do tend to get the short end of the stick when it comes to my politics being shown in a positive.

I mentioned before how I was shocked during the first part of the new "Mister Terrific" because they had Terrific working with a conservative Senator. My surprise quickly became a feeling of "I should have known that was coming" when Terrific flips out at the end of the issue and accuses the Republican of being a demon incarnate.

Personally I find that politics are best left to comics LIKE: V for Vendetta where it is the subject matter. Of course there are certain characters that I am fine with addressing politics because they where their affiliation on their sleeve as part of their character:

Green Arrow = Massive Liberal

Punisher = Eye for an Eye Conservative

The problem is that since most comic writers are fairly liberal, they tend to make their protagonists match their own affiliation and the antagonists match what they disagree with. What happens is that Conservatives are often cast as evil when they simply have different ideals.

Many stories, whether in comic book form or not, are often thinly veiled comments and opinions about politics. If I want to delve into politics, I will do so in other areas. Personally I don't care for discussing it in entertainment. That doesn't make me narrow minded nor a simpleton; it is my opinion and I don't like it. I want to cross into the world of escapism and to me that means leaving a lot of things that are in real life behind.

@B_Heart said:

@Larkin1388 said:

I dont think so. It be same as watching a movie with political views

Agreed. Same thing with music, I like Lupe Fiasco even though he has some political lyrics in his songs. It's all about the beats.

I think the problem is that the politics in comics are usually all skewed toward a liberal point of view, which can be alienating if you are conservative. Writers tend to skew things toward their own leanings and I prefer political commentary left to books like V for Vendetta or Green Arrow where I know going in that it will be addressed because it is the focus of the book.

i will say this, like in real life, politics, religion, morality, tough issues, whatever, is annoying in everyday stuff...

If used well, it can be a very important story telling tool

ex Savage Dragon.....great comic, politics in it kindof ruin it for me

@TheBlackHood: as a conservative, i can tell you reading liberal hero after liberal hero can get kind of annoying......especially with religous superheroes like daredevil or nightcrawler...and to a point spiderman

I don't mind politics in comics, it doesn't bother me, because to be fictional, sometimes they aren't as extreme as the stuff we hear about in reality, especially the last few years. I also can't recall encountering politics too many times. The last one I recall was Superman denouncing his citizenship and the media going bonkers over it and both felt wrong, the story itself felt unnecessary and the media flipping out about it was ridiculous and uncalled for as well. I think the most prominent one in books I read and love is when Bill Willingham made the Fabletown to Israel comparison. A lot of people seemed to be upset by this, some said they were going to drop the title, but I could've cared less. It's not like that one line added or retracted any enjoyment I was getting from the book and I continue to enjoy it. I think seeing some politics is inevitable, but people should be a bit more open minded, especially if it's a small thing and not something smacking you in the face every panel. So, no, I don't believe it does alienate people, it just gives the internet more fodder to fight over.

@TheBlackHood said:

I tend to think that politics do alienate SOME readers because the majority of comic creators seem to hail from one particular political outlook. I suspect that the majority of comic fans are also pretty liberal leaning which means including this type of political outlook in a book panders to your target audience. On the other hand, I tend to be somewhat conservative on a number of subjects, so I do tend to get the short end of the stick when it comes to my politics being shown in a positive.

I mentioned before how I was shocked during the first part of the new "Mister Terrific" because they had Terrific working with a conservative Senator. My surprise quickly became a feeling of "I should have known that was coming" when Terrific flips out at the end of the issue and accuses the Republican of being a demon incarnate.

Personally I find that politics are best left to comics LIKE: V for Vendetta where it is the subject matter. Of course there are certain characters that I am fine with addressing politics because they where their affiliation on their sleeve as part of their character:

Green Arrow = Massive Liberal

Punisher = Eye for an Eye Conservative

The problem is that since most comic writers are fairly liberal, they tend to make their protagonists match their own affiliation and the antagonists match what they disagree with. What happens is that Conservatives are often cast as evil when they simply have different ideals.

Can i say you're awesome and I completely agree ^___^

I'm interested in broader political topics being discussed in comics but it's hard not to cringe when a writer tries to do their take on the given charged, political talking point of the day. For example a recent Nick Spencer penned Secret Avengers had the Avengers take down an apparent wikileaks analogy ( Cap punches it in the face.).

Superman Red Son is one of my all time favorite reads because of the action yes but there ideas an the spread of communism an if used right how it could help people it acually helped mold my political ideas

I think for the major superhero books there shouldn't be anything political of controversial in it. If someone wants to do it in lesser known books or creator own books then that's fine.

That panel is a flattering picture of Tea Partiers. Photos I've seen show poorer sign-making and English Language skills. Also, that cowardice from Marvel has alienated me.

I'm going to guess any racists, homophobes, and fascists who read V For Vendetta felt alienated by it. Complete hatred of an ideology you hold is more alienating than praise of one you don't. Especially as Moore's view has a lot in common with mainstream politics in the West; the basic idea that "everyone should be the masters of their own destinies" is something most of us can agree on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!

It's funny because he said Teabag.

@EnSabahNurX said:

@TheBlackHood said:

I tend to think that politics do alienate SOME readers because the majority of comic creators seem to hail from one particular political outlook. I suspect that the majority of comic fans are also pretty liberal leaning which means including this type of political outlook in a book panders to your target audience. On the other hand, I tend to be somewhat conservative on a number of subjects, so I do tend to get the short end of the stick when it comes to my politics being shown in a positive.

I mentioned before how I was shocked during the first part of the new "Mister Terrific" because they had Terrific working with a conservative Senator. My surprise quickly became a feeling of "I should have known that was coming" when Terrific flips out at the end of the issue and accuses the Republican of being a demon incarnate.

Personally I find that politics are best left to comics LIKE: V for Vendetta where it is the subject matter. Of course there are certain characters that I am fine with addressing politics because they where their affiliation on their sleeve as part of their character:

Green Arrow = Massive Liberal

Punisher = Eye for an Eye Conservative

The problem is that since most comic writers are fairly liberal, they tend to make their protagonists match their own affiliation and the antagonists match what they disagree with. What happens is that Conservatives are often cast as evil when they simply have different ideals.

Can i say you're awesome and I completely agree ^___^

I also agree!

Green Lantern Green Arrow, very political book and a great story. Although I may only think that because my ideals aligned fairly well with the ideas being championed in the book. Although that may be because there is a difference between a political book and a social book. DC Universe Decides was a book about the politics in the DC universe, I thought that it was interesting read and good story, but not great.

excellent article Sara, and yes indeed a touchy subject to deal with in any form of storytelling without stepping on somebodies toes.

If the story has politically relevant themes and is handled intelligently without too much obvious bias or campaigning I don't mind it. If it starts looking like a piece of propaganda I tend to put that stuff down and ignore it.

Writers and publishers should be smart enough to use caution in using real names of things if they even consider the possibility it might be taken in a bad light. Just like when a tv show uses a fake product like 'choco-puffs' to represent a real product comics have their own, 'Roxxon' clearly represents a big oil entity, and 'Bialya' is just an anagram of Libya.

It isn't hard to represent a 'flavor' in a story without using a specific term or branded name. Then if anyone complains their argument is just that much weaker.

I don't mind it now and then. "V for Vendetta", "X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills", "Superman Red Son", and other books were more enjoyable because they were willing to include normally taboo subject matter.

As long as the writer isn't insulting in how they present an idea. All they have to do is promote their idea, without putting down the other side too much, and package it with a really thoughtful, and compelling story. Let the readers decide if they agree or disagree.

I heard in "the World of Steve Ditko" that Steve Ditko, who from what I read was a follower of Ayn Rand and Objectivism, got full control over Spider-Man and began changing Peter Parker into an Objectivist Ayn Rand type. Not sure if its true but the book mentions things like Parker not liking protestors and the villains becoming more and more regular, no super villain, gangsters because that was more real, and showing how J Jonah Jameson was actually a good guy who put food on people's tables with his large company. the book said that he left Spider-man and Stan Lee was put back in charge more with artist Romita taking over the art.

But it makes me wonder, if this is true, what woud Spider-Man have become if Ditko didn't leave?

If anything politics bring depth to comics. 

They shouldn't because a good writer shouldn't push an idea as the only correct one. Like Alan Moore says in that video the doing that is an insult to reader. In V he doesn't make everyone in the government to be cartoonish villains, he also doesn't make V come across like a saint (like the film), we are allowed to think about the characters themselves and decide if they are truly good or evil. Sadly most writers can not do this and end up writing absolute tripe.

Funny that this article is from Sara Lima, who re-posts a bunch of inaccurate, left-leaning rhetoric on her facebook, such as who in Congress is spending what, but when she posts her own actual views, such as her belief that people on welfare should be drug tested (which I totally agree with), it's all more right-leaning points of view.

I think it depends on the actual story telling. If you're gonna tell a story like, say Morrison's new Superman who goes after actual bad guys in a way that might depict them as the "greedy banker" type, cool!. If you are gonna write a story where the hero feels the eye of "big brother government" must be stopped, I'm down with that too. However, if you are gonna blatantly bash someone's point of view, be they small government Tea Partier (teabagger) or big government liberal (pinko commie hippie), then no. A good writer should be able to interject any political points of view he or she has without making it so blatant as to name-call the other side. OR! Even do away with them all together and just tell a freaking great story.

@iaconpoint said:

Funny that this article is from Sara Lima, who re-posts a bunch of inaccurate, left-leaning rhetoric on her facebook, such as who in Congress is spending what, but when she posts her own actual views, such as her belief that people on welfare should be drug tested (which I totally agree with), it's all more right-leaning points of view.

I think it depends on the actual story telling. If you're gonna tell a story like, say Morrison's new Superman who goes after actual bad guys in a way that might depict them as the "greedy banker" type, cool!. If you are gonna write a story where the hero feels the eye of "big brother government" must be stopped, I'm down with that too. However, if you are gonna blatantly bash someone's point of view, be they small government Tea Partier (teabagger) or big government liberal (pinko commie hippie), then no. A good writer should be able to interject any political points of view he or she has without making it so blatant as to name-call the other side. OR! Even do away with them all together and just tell a freaking great story.

I don't know what my facebook has to do with this article. I didn't really think I integrated my political views up there ^^

@Babs: I'm not bashing you. Really. Or judging. I was just making an observation. Damn you're quick.

That panel is a flattering picture of Tea Partiers. Photos I've seen show poorer sign-making and English Language skills. Also, that cowardice from Marvel has alienated me.

I'm going to guess any racists, homophobes, and fascists who read V For Vendetta felt alienated by it. Complete hatred of an ideology you hold is more alienating than praise of one you don't. Especially as Moore's view has a lot in common with mainstream politics in the West; the basic idea that "everyone should be the masters of their own destinies" is something most of us can agree on.

I think perhaps politics can alienate readers. There are examples where I know my enjoyment has been negatively influenced by the politics underlying the story.

However, I am not sure this is a horrible thing. You know what else alienates readers? Boring lifeless storytelling. While politically influenced comics do not necessarily constitute exciting or substantive, I would much rather a comic try to have a message that might alienate me than have no message at all. While I am not sure I want all my comics to become political commentary, I think there is room in the industry for a balance between pure entertainment and social commentary.

Politics and comics go hand in hand. Superheroes and politics go hand in hand. They've been there since the beginning. Seigel and Shuster's Superman was a socialist, Denny O'Neil's Green Lantern/Green Arrow comics were liberal, you can probably find some right wing stuff in other mainstream stuff. 
 
Comics mirror real life, they're veiled, sometimes thinly, to fit into a fantasy setting but politics are there in our comic books and usually these characters are used as mouth pieces to reflect the author's feelings on a certain issue. 
 
Grant Morrison did it on Animal Man and JLA, Alan Moore did it on most of his works, and the list goes on and on.  
 
Does it turn people off? I don't think so. Because even if you disagree with, say, the political views of a character, you can appreciate it because that's what their character is. I don't believe in lethal means in dealing with criminals, but the Punisher does, I don't exactly hate his comics, though. There are some people who think lethal means as to dealing with criminals is okay and share this view with the Punisher, I don't think they're exactly put off by his actions.

Speculative fiction—sci-fi and fantasy—is the best possible platform for displaying, exploring, and raising political issues, and superhero comic books are basically spec fiction. Because they're "not serious," you can float the ideas that matter and get real discussions going. From the far left (e.g., V For Vendetta) to the far right (e.g., Martha Washington Goes to War).

Only when it's done poorly.

I could care less. If it's handled well, it's handled well. If there's a book like V For Vendetta (which is obviously a political statement/full of politics (if one of those expressions is wrong, forgive it, I hope you realize what I mean), and you don't like politics, then don't read it. Now, if something like Spider-man takes the occasional jab, that's fine too.(I remember in "American Son" where Wolverine and Spidey fistbumped after a particularly hilarious diss at George W. Bush). Like I said, handled well, handled well.

It depends on how up to date the reader is on politics and current events

I think you'll find that it's hard to divorce politics from anything since it's connected to everything. You'll find most writers sneak in their political values in subtle ways from plot to plot without doing anything to raise a commotion. Only every now and then do you hear a complaint, but, really, grow up. Politics are so important to people that I can't imagine anyone separating themselves from it completely enough not to put it into their work. It's like religion. Take the Chronicles of Narnia. You can read it as a fun, fantasy series without worrying about the Judeo-Christian messages and values but they are definitely there. so lighten up. I'm as far left as left can be and when I read Liberality for All I just laughed and laughed. What a ridiculous Conservative nightmare...

that's a great interview w/ Alan Moore. I like political stuff in comics just fine, though I often prefer it to be subtle and not too trivial. I don't want to feel the writer is forcing his views on the reader because I could see someone on the opposite side of the proverbial fence making a big deal about it. Comic books aren't exactly a political medium though it certainly can have a potent political effect such as V for Vendetta has. Sometimes it's political propaganda/persuasion, like how the first Batman serial of the 1940s during WWII had an evil Japanese dictator as the villain. Something like that isn't acceptable nowadays as apparent with the whole controversy when Frank Miller wanted to make a Batman book where he fights Al Qaeda - Yet the whole Republican vs. Liberal angle is overdone, widely permissible nowadays in comics because that is far less alienating, but it's hard to tell if the political impact of comics is mostly positive or negative. I think it is likely it causes more (trollish) debates than inspire someone to get involved in something meaningful.

I don't believe comics should ever think of not using something like politics in the book. These are fictional books and if an author wants to write about something then he should be able to without drawbacks and as long as he writes within the rating system.

I think politics are ok to an extent, most of it isn't very in your face but there have been a few instances that annoyed me like the mayoral debates in Spider-Man and DC Universe: Decisions a while back.

I think there is a difference between including opinions on specific issues or people in comic books and politics in comics. Obviously, writers can avoid talking about specific people or issues in comic books. However, even the most escapist fantasy story is political just by virtue of who is featured as the hero or villain, how the heroes/villains relate to the world around them, and even in a writers choice to write an escapist story.

I don't care about real politics, so i definitely don't care about comic book politics.

I don't find things that interest me alienating. Of course, the things that interest me happen to be sex, drugs, politics, science, violence, and atheism, in no particular order. ^_^

If including political content into a story makes it more compelling (V for Vendetta or God Loves, Man Kills), then why the hell not? I personally found the jab at the tea party in Captain America quite entertaining. :P

Funny that this article is from Sara Lima, who re-posts a bunch of inaccurate, left-leaning rhetoric on her facebook, such as who in Congress is spending what, but when she posts her own actual views, such as her belief that people on welfare should be drug tested (which I totally agree with), it's all more right-leaning points of view.

I think it depends on the actual story telling. If you're gonna tell a story like, say Morrison's new Superman who goes after actual bad guys in a way that might depict them as the "greedy banker" type, cool!. If you are gonna write a story where the hero feels the eye of "big brother government" must be stopped, I'm down with that too. However, if you are gonna blatantly bash someone's point of view, be they small government Tea Partier (teabagger) or big government liberal (pinko commie hippie), then no. A good writer should be able to interject any political points of view he or she has without making it so blatant as to name-call the other side. OR! Even do away with them all together and just tell a freaking great story.

Well said. and it pretty much sums up my point of view on politics in comics. Political commentary is one thing, being small minded and heavy handed with politics, as well as sex and religion for that matter, is just irresponsibility plain and simple.

Only to those who are not aware of politics in high school and collage OR are above the age of 21.

Speaking of politics, here's something for propaganda on War on Terrorism and anti-Islamic terrorists: FRANK MILLER'S HOLY TERROR (now available in comic book stores and book stores).

Well comics should be above politics but in truth it is not. In the end it has to be about how one construes the implicit or explicit sexual message that is being given. Sure, one can see the obvious communistic connotations in Superman: Red Son or the overt criticism of the Tea Party in Avengers #602 (tea baggers); but it is up to the reader to either be offended or acknowledging of those messages. If people are offended by those kind of issues then it is something that is with the reader, not an issue of the reading material. The fact that such messages exist does not degenerate the quality of the reading material in comics. If anything they enhance it and make the story more realistic to us as readers.

can't we just be social, instead being racial?

Only to those who are not aware of politics in high school and collage OR are above the age of 21.

Speaking of politics, here's something for propaganda on War on Terrorism and anti-Islamic terrorists: FRANK MILLER'S HOLY TERROR (now available in comic book stores and book stores).

@AlexDM said:

That panel is a flattering picture of Tea Partiers. Photos I've seen show poorer sign-making and English Language skills. Also, that cowardice from Marvel has alienated me.

I'm going to guess any racists, homophobes, and fascists who read V For Vendetta felt alienated by it. Complete hatred of an ideology you hold is more alienating than praise of one you don't. Especially as Moore's view has a lot in common with mainstream politics in the West; the basic idea that "everyone should be the masters of their own destinies" is something most of us can agree on.

Of course you've never seen or heard anything ignorant or stupid from the liberal left right, Alex? I don't suppose you remember the woman claiming that President Obama would pay her mortgage or put gas in her car? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

I've always found it interesting how the tolerant left are often the most intolerant to anyone who has an opposing view.

I believe some comics are meant for political topics such as Green Arrow and X-men (and many others). But, I prefer non-political stuff because it become a battleground on who's right and who's wrong. If comics take a political stance they can alienate some readers, and that's not what the comic industry needs right now. I think they should touch on the subject but not take a stance in it. Grant Morrison once said

"politics date comics, we want to make comics timeless as we can. " I can't deal with political fads or fancies, I'd rather deal with universal ideas which everyone can agree with so everyone can read it.

@TheBlackHood: I'm sorry, what does that have to do with signs? And where did you get "intolerant" from?

Please keep politics out of my comics. I see enough of it in the real world, I don't need it shoved down my throat when I'm trying to escape for a bit.