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From: Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse@yahoo.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10150] Re: layers of meaning
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Bonnie,
I know what you mean (well I think I do, correct me if
I'm wrong))), because I get the same from the French
on my accent and language use. But America was the
first place where I would get "How well have you lived
in America?" My response when I first arrived, "Two
weeks". "OH MY GOD! You really speak English well."
And I was supposed to think of that as being
complimentary. At one point I was irritated enough to
say, "Well you're not doing so badly yourself
considering you're American." I did feel badly about
that later on, but by that time I was getting fedup of
having to point out that the same folks who colonised
them, colonised India, etc. etc.
I was/am still told that I don't come across as
Indian, and that was another compliment. And in
France, I get compliments on my pronunciation, use of
argot, lack of an accent (!?!) and for being a "modern
Indian". I've just stopped caring. I either make it
into a joke or ignore the stuff.
Ahh well, if I had a dollar for every such veiled
compliment ("Oh you're so articulate" was another
one.), I would be a wealthy woman!
regards,
Ujwala Samant
--- Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia@adelphia.net> wrote:
> When I travel to France, I'm a foreigner, yes, and
> have suffered some of the
> snubs that the French are legendary for (and no, I'm
> not engaging in that
> popular past time of French bashing). When I was
> truly offended was by my
> French friends who meant to pay me a compliment by
> saying I wasn't "really"
> American. Because my French was fluent? Because I
> didn't meet the
> stereotype? Because I was intelligent? Yes, I was
> ashamed of my country and
> of the behavior of some of my national
> confrères(soeurs). I was ashamed of
> how the policies of my country made some reluctant
> to deal with Americans at
> a recent conference, or were surprised that we
> weren't (all) flag waving
> monsters. This is why, at home, I work with those in
> the greatest need. It's
> my only way to make a difference, however small.
> And, yes, I have dealt with
> "illegal aliens," (both terms being offensive) and
> with their despair at
> being so terribly limited in their choices, in
> employment, education, family
> life... And their tremendous desire to cope
> nevertheless.
> Warmest Regards,
> Bonnie Odiorne Ph.D
> Program Faciliator
> Working Smart
> Computers 4 Kids
> Silas Bronson Library Information Technology Center
> Waterbury, CT
> Integrating Technology, ABE and ESL Instruction
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On
> Behalf Of Susan
> Ryan
> Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10140] Re: layers of meaning
>
>
> If I travel to a foreign ( to me) country, to the
> inhabitants there I am a
> foreigner. I do not find this offensive at all. You
> could take amost any
> word; put a certain tone or slant to it, and be
> offensive.
> However, the meaning of the word "foreigner" is not
> offensive. We are all
> foreigners" at some time.
> Susan
>
>
> >From: "Eugenio Longoria" <ezl109@psu.edu>
> >Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov
> >To: Multiple recipients of list
> <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov>
> >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10135] Re: layers of meaning
> >Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:47:53 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >I can't believe this conversation. I never really
> like to post anything,
> >but I guess today my tolerance level is a bit low.
> In life you cannot have
> >just one perspective; you have to have many. I am
> a foreigner and like
> >being one. I like to stand out from the mass of
> acculturated beings that
> >this country is. But, many times I just like to
> fit in as well as I can.
> >I
> >walk both roads never at once, but alternately. I
> have to. It is not that
> >I am living two lives, I am living one. But this
> life is full of events
> >that I have to navigate through. I navigate
> through each one as best as I
> >can, sometimes as a foreigner and sometimes as an
> acculturated being.
> >Putting all personal agendas aside, when was the
> last time any of you
> >looked
> >at yourselves critically and admitted to yourselves
> who you really are.
> >Who
> >is playing God here? None of us know more than the
> person next to us. I
> >am
> >the first to say that I know nothing more that the
> "Illiterates" Mr. Muro
> >refers to. They are not less literate than you and
> you not more than them.
> >Everyone reads the world a certain way. Literacy
> is not a language only of
> >letters; it includes that which is seen, heard,
> felt, and perceived. We
> >are
> >ignorant to think that progress lies only in the
> written word. Everyone is
> >a "foreigner" or outsider, including you Mr. Muro
> and Ms. Tanya and Ms.
> >Sissy. We all don't belong somewhere (whether it
> is in a certain family,
> >neighborhood, or social club). Don't forget this
> idea, you are not alien
> >to
> >it. Or has it been so long that you haven't felt
> like a "foreigner" or
> >outsider in any situation. This is where our
> faults lie. We alienate
> >ourselves from those experiences we attribute to
> others. If we thought of
> >ourselves like those we claim to help, then we
> would be more aware of the
> >rhetoric that Mr. Muro has so attacked. Anyway, I
> could go on forever, but
> >I have work to do. I am only a student, So I don't
> claim to be right, but
> >I'd rather be a student for life than a teacher who
> is not willing to admit
> >when they don't know much.
> >
> >Eugenio Longoria Saenz
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of Sissy
> >Kegley
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:14 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list
> >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10134] Re: layers of meaning
> >
> >Tanya,
> >
> >I heard you say that your intention was not to be
> offensive. I respect
> >that.
> >
> >I am in agreement with what Andres says.
> >
> >I happen to think that what he says is important
> enough that I wish he'd
> >made his point differently because, in my opinion,
> he's opened himself
> >up to an array of accusations.
> >
> >On the one hand, I would not be surprised if you
> felt his message
> >conveys a lot of assumptions about you and your
> intention.
> >
> >But, if we take you personally out of his analysis,
> and look critically
> >at the reality he is describing, he has hit the
> nail on the head. I can
> >say this based on my own years of experience.
> >
> >And, finally, his closing definition of racism is
> important. As I said,
> >I do respect your assertion that your intention was
> not to be offensive.
> >However, in one of my classes last month, there was
> unanimous consent
> >that certain words, including "foreigner", were
> offensive; in this case,
> >we can see that regardless of intention, the
> interpretation is racist.
> >
> >This is important stuff, and in my opinion, both
> Janet and Andres have
> >each gone out on limb to address it. We all have a
> lot to learn from
> >them.
> >
> >Sissy Kegley
> >ESOL/Adult Education
> >(301) 588-4333 home office
> >(301) 467-5364 cellular
> >sissy.kegley@verizon.net
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]
> On Behalf Of
> >AndresMuro@aol.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:38 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list
> >Subject: [NIFL-ESL:10133] Re: layers of meaning
> >
> >.but you are afraid of driving in the same roads
> with them.
> >
> >I believe that you live in florida, am I right?
> They
=== message truncated ===
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