I'm quite aware of the concepts of andragogy as I engage in practice every time I walk into a face to face classroom as a teacher or as I set up a dialogue through virtual environments with my students. Understanding the need to engage those around us on their ground is important but the idea is that you engage and such an engagement implies communication of some kind - be it verbal, visual or otherwise. It's perhaps the difference between active learning and passive learning - learning occurs in both environments but in one the student is much more invested in what he or she is part of.

Your response brings up an interesting point however in terms of providing 'options' for list participants and 'diverse' ways of gathering the data contained in the discussions. And that might be something worth looking at - looking at how we (or the list admins) etc...whatever the 'we' is defined as - can make the knowledge and resources through these discussions more accessible so that the breadth of the discourse itself does not become a barrier to participants.

 My research as a doctoral student has to do with various types of discourse in which people engage - much like the discourse of this discussion. I do understand that some people don't want to wade through emails. I have a friend who refuses to read anything more than a paragraph when it comes to email - she doesn't have the patience for it at all. What works for her is a bulleted list of summary points. Others, like way more. There are going to be extremes on both ends and I get that. My question in my post however has to do more with what it means to be 'engaged' or to 'value' and whether or not those two things can be adequately done if one is just passively learning ( lurking) or does it at that point become more of an investment with long term returns which I can see as quite plausible. It's about recognizing the differences and considering how the individual needs can be best addressed for the most benefit to each person here.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson


>>> "Maryanne Donovan" <maryann5 at frontiernet.net> 07/15/09 2:42 PM >>>

Just a few comments in response. Relative to teaching adult students, I believe in and use the concepts of andragogy -- meeting the students on their turf, within reason, of course. It is my job as teacher to engage them as individuals, in other words, find out what makes each student tick and press that button. For some students that is in class discussion, for others it is participating in a threaded discussion on BlackBoard. The crux of it is, everyone deals with life, stress and knowledge uniquely, and as educators, I believe it is our job to recognize and address those needs. A good definition for andragogy exists here: http://www.nald.ca/adultlearningcourse/glossary.htm

If we take this concept and translate it to the list, we are all unique and will engage on our own terms, whatever that might be. One of the issues for some (me) is the length of posts. I teach business communications and the guidelines for professional communication are no more than three short paragraphs in an email, anything longer either dealt with in an attachment or redirected to a "pull" board instead of the current "push" format being used here. 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:08 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 2012] Re: Creating Summary Documents

First, I hope don't offend anyone - I'm not trying to. I actually feel bad after reading all the emails about being a lurker or 'stress' related to reading / sorting the emails from the lists. I read every email from each list that I'm part of and currently I'm subscribed to 3 in addition to anything that I do for work. Discussions ebb and flow and it's rare that I've found all three of the lists to be identically 'busy' at the same time. I'm just like everyone else I've seen who explain why they lurk or skim emails - I have a full time job and a part time job; I have 4 kids from 4-17; I'm a 2nd year doctoral student and I still read all the emails and participate in the discussions - as inclined or relevant to experience.  I have always found the value of the discussions to be very worthwhile. When I first joined the lists, these lists were the only other professional development I encountered outside of a yearly training event in my area. It was also the only means I had fo
 r a dialogue with other people in my field b/c the actual people in the program I first started in did not have a dialogue beyond a semester meeting. I remember when I first found these forums, the sense of relief and awe I had at realizing I was not "alone" in my proverbial boat - that there really were other people who had encountered the problems or the joys that I experienced either in the classroom, administratively, or with assessment issues or training ideas. I guess that is still what I find so valuable and I can't see NOT taking the time to read the emails others have taken the time post or working to create a dialogue with others to solve problems or address issues that all might work to create a more successful environment for the student learner. Even if it's a kind word of encouragement to a post that expresses exactly what I already feel or think, I sometimes find those things worthwhile too. I would think others do too especially in what can be the stressful w
 orld of adult literacy. I've seen a couple of people say that they 'value' the lists but it in some ways begs the question what does it mean to value something? Does one, can one, value something but not be actively part of it - what ever that "it" is? Granted, we don't want a discussion that is 'unwieldy' but isn't the goal of a teacher or an instructor in some ways, to find a way to reach that student that sits in the corner and 'lurks'? Don't we want to draw that person into the discussion so that they become an active participant both being changed and changing what they participate in? How are we as participants any different? How can we ask students to participate in the classroom environment when they might be stressed from any number of factors but we as educators don't or can't make the time to participate in a discussion that can potentially shape the face of adult literacy in the US and elsewhere even if we don't see the return on investment in the immediate scope
  of our work?  We may not always discuss EVERY topic or respond to EVERY email but even if you skim and respond to the details that do jump out to you, even if you repeat an idea - has value if nothing more to show the common threads that exists among us as professionals.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson


>>> On 7/14/2009 at 3:22 pm, in message <6B2136B82115894B80A8E1A2B63BDF3B0D10DABB75 at exchange01>, Melody Clinton <mclinton at privateindustrycouncil.com> wrote:


I agree with Mary Anne. Although time-consuming, creation of a summary document/transcript would not only be helpful; but, would cut down on the stress level in relation to the enormous amount of time required when sorting through the overwhelming # of emails. 
Melody Clinton
Family Literacy Instructor

Private Industry Council of Westmoreland/Fayette, Inc.
Phone Number:  (724)437-2590
________________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Maryanne Donovan [maryann5 at frontiernet.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 11:32 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 2007] Re: Creating Summary Documents

Hi Maria,

Thanks so much for getting back to me and hope you had good weather and good time camping in Vermont. I will check out the NIFL discussion links. I have spent a lot of time on the NIFL site gathering data for various research projects, so am familiar with it.

In the meantime, good discussion.

Best,
Mary Anne

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:32 AM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 2002] Re: Creating Summary Documents

Hi Mary Anne,

Thanks for your post.  Yes, summary documents - or we Moderators call them transcripts - are indeed very useful.  Every formal guest discussion does have the discussion transcripts posted at the LINCS Archives (go to:  http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/discussions.html
and click on List Events in the right-hand toolbar).

However, putting together transcripts can be very time-consuming and so it's not really possible to do this with each discussion.  Some discussion transcripts from the past on this List are in fact archived at the ALE Wiki (http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Main_Page - click on Assessment Information), but I have not been able to keep up with that.

A couple other folks have noted that we do have the List archives and they are searchable by subject, date or author.  These are very valuable and I would love to hear from people if they use them and how.

Marie

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Maryanne Donovan
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 12:18 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1996] Re: {Disarmed} Re: Participation Inequality

Be forewarned: a Twilight vampire dons the Emperor's new clothes!
Indeed,
major lurker here, and my reason for doing so is my schedule which is comprised of two book contracts, teaching four college writing classes, running an online business, (including content development, search engine optimization, and site design), and finally, a part time job in search marketing. Thus, I am always in skim mode and never feel qualified to comment. I would love to be able to give more thorough reads to the posts, but I simply can't because of their length.

Is there any way to create some sort of summary document? Perhaps someone else out there might benefit from that as well? I've read enough to know this is great stuff being discussed here, I am just too (unfortunately) embroiled in the digital kaleidoscope to take the time these posts require.

Thanks  for hearing me out.
My best,
Mary Anne Donovan

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On
Behalf Of Katrina Hinson
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:04 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1995] Re: {Disarmed} Re: Participation Inequality

But maybe that's just it -  sometime is not about participating in the discussion but adding to the discussion - and you can do that in a number of ways. The first one, is by sharing HOW you used something you learned on the list. Reflect on it, and then post it to the group and say, "You know, that was a great idea so and so had several weeks ago and I've tried it with this group or that group and this worked and that didn't."  Perhaps by engaging in a dialogue about what we are actually using and taking away from the group, as well as how we're using it, modifying it to fit the programs we are in, etc., we get a better and more active dialogue from more than just a few members.

I think everyone lurks from time to time - some posts are going to be valid and useful to some and not others - but we can all think about the ideas we've actually taken away from a particular conversation and to ensure we continue the conversations sharing how we've used it we may find that these lists are very very useful and we begin to support that through practice and not just what may appear to be sporadic postings by a few.

Just some thoughts.

Regards,
Katrina Hinson


>>> <dcingeorgia at aol.com> 07/10/09 6:58 PM >>>

I have never considered myself a lurker, though I have not contributed to this listserv - most of the time, those who do respond posted a response that covers what I would have said, so, I don't know that I think it behooves any of us to say "ditto" to the last response and fill everyone's mailbox with "I think that same way".? Am I wrong in this - would it help "the cause" to respond even if my response would be the same as another's views?? I use the information I receive all the time unaware that I?was a "lurker".







-----Original Message-----
From: Jackie A. Taylor <jackie at jataylor.net>
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 11:25 am
Subject: [Assessment 1988] Participation Inequality



Hi Phyllis, and all,

Phyllis, you wrote:

"I'm going to guess that there is a huge audience with a tiny percentage that actually post.  I don't think the percentages are necessarily representative of interest!"

I thought you'd like to see this report from Jacob Nielsen on "Participation Inequality: Encouraging More Users to Contribute":

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

"Summary: In most online communities, 90% of users are lurkers who never contribute, 9% of users contribute a little, and 1% of users account for almost all the action."

He goes on to discuss the downsides of participation inequality and strategies online facilitators could use (given that the community has access to the tools) to make participation easier and more equal.

I'd be interested in others' reactions to this report and how some of it may, well, pertain to us!

Best...Jackie

Jackie Taylor, PD List Facilitator, jackie at jataylor.net
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