I have had a similar experience with testing. I once did a study where
we looked at students who were currently enrolled in college, had above
a B average, and who took either a TABE or CASAS assessment.  We found
that a majority scored below the equivalent of a 10th grade reading or
math level - which would have precluded them from entering a non-degree
based LPN program.  In other words, we had some students working
successfully towards completing an ADN or BA who would not have been
allowed entry into an LPN program based on test scores.
 
Laura Chenven
H-CAP National Coordinator
202 257-7108
lchenven at 1199funds.org
 
 
________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Kirsten Daigneault
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:32 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1683] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2


I coordinate the transitions program at Quinsigamond Community College,
and we allow students to retake the Accuplacer twice with no questions
asked and then additionally with an advisor's permission.  When I was
preparing a student a few years back, she took the Accuplacer on a
Monday and placed into basic developmental English and math classes.  On
Tuesday, she took it again and placed into intermediate level classes.
On Wednesday, she took it again and placed into college-level English
and math classes.  For some, the content of the test has nothing to do
with a student's ability to obtain a higher score, and the issue is more
so about becoming comfortable taking a computerized test.
 
Kirsten M. Daigneault
Coordinator
Future Focus Transitions Program
Quinsigamond Community College
670 West Boylston Street
Worcester, MA 01606
508-854-4353

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Mechem, Thompson
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:02 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1680] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2


Thanks for that clarification, Toni. The thing that worries me about
that scenario is that there is evidence to show that strong arithmetic
ability may not be a good predictor of strong algebra skills and that in
fact it may hinder the development of algebra skills. From a teaching
standpoint, this calls into question our traditional sequence of math
instruction whereby arithmetic comes first and arithmetic skills are
seen as a prerequisite for algebra, but it also makes it problematic as
to whether students' performances on the ACCUPLACER Arithmetic test are
good indications of where they should be placed vis-a-vis algebra. There
are some community colleges in Massachusetts that start students on the
Algebra ACCUPLACER test and only if they do poorly on that do they take
the Arithmetic test, rather than vice versa. 
 

Tom Mechem 
GED State Chief Examiner 
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education 
Commonwealth of Massachusetts 
781-338-6621 
"GED to Ph.D." 

	-----Original Message-----
	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Borge, Toni
	Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:37 PM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1671] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2
	
	

	After reading what Tom wrote that "I believe that if you get
three in a row wrong it shuts you down and tells you, "Don't call us,
we'll call you."  I asked my program's transitions advisor to check with
our assessment director if it that is the case.   He found out that
Accuplacer doesn't stop with wrong answers. In the case of math, the
test might stop after Arithmetic, at BHCC the placement rules have been
set so if a student scores very low on Arithmetic, they will not get the
Elementary Algebra test, but they will get the entire Arithmetic test."

	 

	So it will depend on how each assessment center sets up their
placement protocol to determine if a student will get the Elementary
Algebra test or not.

	 

	Toni

	 

	 

	 

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mechem, Thompson
	Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:53 AM
	To: The Assessment Discussion List
	Subject: [Assessment 1646] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2

	 

	I would just add to what Toni has said about test-taking skills
a point about the differences between the GED test and the ACCUPLACER
with regard to the penalties for getting a problem wrong. We know from
the research that the most-missed questions on the GED test are
Pythagorean Theorem problems. However, there is only one of these on the
GED math test, maybe two (out of fifty questions). Miss the Pythagorean
Theorem question, get a 760 or whatever on the Math test, and head off
to MIT. But the ACCUPLACER is a computer-adaptive test. The ACCUPLACER
algebra test (which you have to pass in order to avoid developmental
courses) starts you off with a medium-difficulty question, but if you
get it wrong, you sink to a lower level from which it is more difficult
to get yourself back to an even keel. Every wrong answer drops you
further into the abyss, and I believe that if you get three in a row
wrong it shuts you down and tells you, "Don't call us, we'll call you."
So the ACCUPLACER requires a completely different test-taking mindset.

	 

	Tom Mechem 
	GED State Chief Examiner 
	Department of Elementary & Secondary Education 
	Commonwealth of Massachusetts 
	781-338-6621 
	"GED to Ph.D." 

		-----Original Message-----
		From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Borge, Toni
		Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:05 PM
		To: The Assessment Discussion List
		Subject: [Assessment 1603] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and
2

		Writing from Bunker Hill Community College Boston one of
the 5 colleges profiled in Torchlights in ESL;  I can confirm that the
majority of GED and ESOL students place into developmental math.  That
said, 90% of all students who enroll in community  colleges  in
Massachusetts place into at least one developmental course.   And this
is the trend nationwide.

		 

		From my experience there are a number of factors that
play into developmental placement; one that Tom mentioned is the lack of
alignment between the Massachusetts Adult Curriculum Frameworks and
community college math or English curriculum - and between Adult Ed ESOL
and community college ESOL curriculum also.  It also should be noted a
large number of high school graduates who pass the MCAS - Massachusetts
state K-12 competency test also test into developmental classes, again
lack of alignment between the  secondary education  and community
college curriculum is a factor.  Steps are being taken to address this
issue.

		 

		Another factor is test taking skills.  Students need to
learn how to take a computerized test. The test taking strategies we
learned about skipping the questions you know and then go back or review
the  questions after you have completed the test can't be done on a
computerized test.  Also many students do not take the time to read the
directions carefully.  You can't go back and correct on a computerized
test.

		 

		Instead of thinking how to get students to pass
Accuplacer, I would recommend the focus should be on what math and
English academic skills that are required to place into college level
classes and adapt the curriculum to address these deficiencies.

		Toni

		 

		 

		 

		From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mechem, Thompson
		Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:57 AM
		To: The Assessment Discussion List
		Subject: [Assessment 1574] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and
2

		 

		Stephanie, et al.---

		 

		In our state we also find that the low academic skill
level of GED diploma recipients is, if not the biggest barrier to
post-secondary education, at least a very major one. A huge majority of
GED students end up in college developmental courses from which they
never emerge. The unindicted co-conspirator in all this is the
ACCUPLACER, the placement test that all applicants to Massachusetts
state colleges must take. Our data shows that while GED grads do very
well on the reading part of the ACCUPLACER and quite well on the Writing
in terms of avoiding developmental courses, on the the Math they do
very, very poorly. There is no correlation between GED math and
ACCUPLACER/college Algebra: a person can get an 800 on the GED math test
and still test into developmental math at a community college. I am
working with GED math teachers around Massachusetts to develop a GED
curriculum that will allow students to pass the GED test with all due
speed and also pass the ACCUPLACER math test.

		Tom Mechem 
		GED State Chief Examiner 
		Department of Elementary & Secondary Education 
		Commonwealth of Massachusetts 
		781-338-6621 
		"GED to Ph.D." 

			-----Original Message-----
			From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Stephanie Moran
			Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
			To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
			Subject: [Assessment 1563] Reply to Questions 1
and 2

			1.        The low skill level of many students
trying to transition from GED to college may be the biggest barrier. We
are part of the SUN grant/College Connection grant here in Colorado, so
we are in the middle of  doing exactly this-working in an intensive
8-week program that is attempting to help our GED grads accelerate their
skill levels in reading, writing, math, study skills, critical
thinking-and learn how to "do college" as well as explore career
options. Our students are dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more
sophisticated skills. One of our grant goals is to help them
successfully pass through their current remedial course, and if they are
at the 030 or 060 level, to perhaps skip over the next one into the
higher 060/090 or into credit-bearing courses altogether.

			--Study skills of students-many GED students are
episodic in their attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score,
but college demands  consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills
that may be unfamiliar if not downright foreign to GED grads.

			--Another barrier is that some teachers perceive
their primary role as helping students earn the GED and although such
teachers often support post-GED studies, they don't want to push
students or focus on higher-level skills. This creates a de facto
tracking system, and it may be that centers will need to formalize such
tracking so that students who know they want to go on to post-GED
studies can work with those teachers.

			2.  Resources:  Having GED teachers who also
teach as adjuncts for community colleges is hugely helpful because we
understand both systems and what is required for a student to be
successful in a college environment; we also can tutor and advocate in a
way that teachers who teach at only one level may not be able or willing
to do as effectively.

			--THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us
time and funding to develop curriculum, to work in close collaboration
with other teacher/team members, and to introduce this approach to the
community colleges.

			 

			Stephanie Moran

			Durango, CO

			 

			From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Marie Cora
			Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:52 AM
			To: Assessment at nifl.gov
			Subject: [Assessment 1557] Transitions
Discussion begins today!

			 

			Good morning, afternoon and evening to you all.

			 

			Today begins our week-long discussion on
Transitions in Adult Education.  

			 

			For full information on this discussion, go to:

			 

	
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/09transitions.html

			 

			I have some questions for subscribers:

			 

			1.  What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for
your program when trying to successfully transition adult students from
one education level to another, or from education to the workforce?
What does your program try to do about this?

			 

			2.  What resources have you found helpful when
trying to successfully transition a student?  How have they been
helpful?

			 

			3.  Please comment on the Introduction and/or
Recommended Preparations for this Discussion, found at the announcement
URL above.

			 

			Please post your questions and share your
experiences now.  

			 

			Thanks!!

			 

			Marie Cora

			Assessment Discussion List Moderator

			 


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