I think you're both right. Let's face it, GED math isn't college math. More
importantly, most ESL programs have no systematic way of factoring math at
any high level into their curricula - and that's 45% of all AE students. The
GED problem can and should be easily as Tom suggests, and it's amazing that
it hasn't been. That's the easy part. The ESL problem requires a complete
rethinking of ESL program structure to create pathways to college tracks
that include math along with college level English skills. Remember, that
most colleges in most states don't require a GED for admission. But they do
require a high enough level of math to pass the Compass or AccuPlacer.
Hence, especially for ESL students, the GED may be optional, but teaching
high levels of math to those who are college bound isn't. I consider this a
major problem for the ESL field.

 

Forrest      

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Borge, Toni
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:05 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1603] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2

 

Writing from Bunker Hill Community College Boston one of the 5 colleges
profiled in Torchlights in ESL;  I can confirm that the majority of GED and
ESOL students place into developmental math.  That said, 90% of all students
who enroll in community  colleges  in Massachusetts place into at least one
developmental course.   And this is the trend nationwide.

 


>From my experience there are a number of factors that play into

developmental placement; one that Tom mentioned is the lack of alignment
between the Massachusetts Adult Curriculum Frameworks and community college
math or English curriculum - and between Adult Ed ESOL and community college
ESOL curriculum also.  It also should be noted a large number of high school
graduates who pass the MCAS - Massachusetts state K-12 competency test also
test into developmental classes, again lack of alignment between the
secondary education  and community college curriculum is a factor.  Steps
are being taken to address this issue.

 

Another factor is test taking skills.  Students need to learn how to take a
computerized test. The test taking strategies we learned about skipping the
questions you know and then go back or review the  questions after you have
completed the test can't be done on a computerized test.  Also many students
do not take the time to read the directions carefully.  You can't go back
and correct on a computerized test.

 

Instead of thinking how to get students to pass Accuplacer, I would
recommend the focus should be on what math and English academic skills that
are required to place into college level classes and adapt the curriculum to
address these deficiencies.

Toni

 

 

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Mechem, Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:57 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1574] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2

 

Stephanie, et al.---

 

In our state we also find that the low academic skill level of GED diploma
recipients is, if not the biggest barrier to post-secondary education, at
least a very major one. A huge majority of GED students end up in college
developmental courses from which they never emerge. The unindicted
co-conspirator in all this is the ACCUPLACER, the placement test that all
applicants to Massachusetts state colleges must take. Our data shows that
while GED grads do very well on the reading part of the ACCUPLACER and quite
well on the Writing in terms of avoiding developmental courses, on the the
Math they do very, very poorly. There is no correlation between GED math and
ACCUPLACER/college Algebra: a person can get an 800 on the GED math test and
still test into developmental math at a community college. I am working with
GED math teachers around Massachusetts to develop a GED curriculum that will
allow students to pass the GED test with all due speed and also pass the
ACCUPLACER math test.

Tom Mechem 
GED State Chief Examiner 
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education 
Commonwealth of Massachusetts 
781-338-6621 
"GED to Ph.D." 

-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Stephanie Moran
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1563] Reply to Questions 1 and 2

1.        The low skill level of many students trying to transition from GED
to college may be the biggest barrier. We are part of the SUN grant/College
Connection grant here in Colorado, so we are in the middle of  doing exactly
this-working in an intensive 8-week program that is attempting to help our
GED grads accelerate their skill levels in reading, writing, math, study
skills, critical thinking-and learn how to "do college" as well as explore
career options. Our students are dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more
sophisticated skills. One of our grant goals is to help them successfully
pass through their current remedial course, and if they are at the 030 or
060 level, to perhaps skip over the next one into the higher 060/090 or into
credit-bearing courses altogether.

--Study skills of students-many GED students are episodic in their
attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score, but college demands
consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills that may be unfamiliar if
not downright foreign to GED grads.

--Another barrier is that some teachers perceive their primary role as
helping students earn the GED and although such teachers often support
post-GED studies, they don't want to push students or focus on higher-level
skills. This creates a de facto tracking system, and it may be that centers
will need to formalize such tracking so that students who know they want to
go on to post-GED studies can work with those teachers.

2.  Resources:  Having GED teachers who also teach as adjuncts for community
colleges is hugely helpful because we understand both systems and what is
required for a student to be successful in a college environment; we also
can tutor and advocate in a way that teachers who teach at only one level
may not be able or willing to do as effectively.

--THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us time and funding to develop
curriculum, to work in close collaboration with other teacher/team members,
and to introduce this approach to the community colleges.

 

Stephanie Moran

Durango, CO

 

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:52 AM
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: [Assessment 1557] Transitions Discussion begins today!

 

Good morning, afternoon and evening to you all.

 

Today begins our week-long discussion on Transitions in Adult Education.  

 

For full information on this discussion, go to:

 

http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/09transitions.html

 

I have some questions for subscribers:

 

1.  What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for your program when trying to
successfully transition adult students from one education level to another,
or from education to the workforce?  What does your program try to do about
this?

 

2.  What resources have you found helpful when trying to successfully
transition a student?  How have they been helpful?

 

3.  Please comment on the Introduction and/or Recommended Preparations for
this Discussion, found at the announcement URL above.

 

Please post your questions and share your experiences now.  

 

Thanks!!

 

Marie Cora

Assessment Discussion List Moderator

 

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