I would as well.
Sally Sandy
Parkway Adult Education and Literacy





________________________________
From: Barbara Tondre <btondre at earthlink.net>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 4:13:39 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1707] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

 
Susan, I would like to request a copy –
electronic or paper?  Barbara Tondre 
 

________________________________
 
From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Susan Kidd
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009
3:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion
List'
Subject: [Assessment 1705] Re:
Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.
 
A couple
of years ago a group of ABE math teachers from Washington State 
looked at the content of  CASAS Life Skills and Employability, the GED and
both the COMPASS and ASSET Numeracy/Pre-Algebra tests. If anyone would like to
see the crosswalk they created, I’d be glad to send you a copy.
 
 
Susan
 
Susan Kidd
ABE Professional Development Coordinator
State Board for Community &
Technical Colleges
office phone: 509-682-6968
cell phone: 509-630-4520
skidd at sbctc.edu
 
 
 
From:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009
9:50 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1696] Re:
Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.
 
Thanks so much for your work and offer to share it,
Tom.  Has anyone also done this kind of work with the Compass
placement test?
 
 
Joyce Winters, 
Professional
Development Specialist
NWRC/Owens Community
College
2249 Tracy Road,
Room 169
Northwood, Ohio 43619
567-661-7675
joyce_winters at owens.edu



>>> "Mechem, Thompson" <tmechem at doe.mass.edu> 2/5/2009

10:35 AM >>>
Ramsey, et al.---
 
Well, I can tell you
what in my amateurish way I have done. For a number of years part of my
job has been to make presentations to GED teachers and program directors
regarding what skill sets are needed for success on the five parts of the GED
tests. As you know, no one can see the GED tests, so it's hard for teachers to
know what to teach or what it means that one of their students got a 410 on the
Writing test, and so on. The GED Testing Service in Washington provides us with valuable
information on the most-missed questions (based on their analysis of every test
taken world-wide since January 1, 2002); we have the GED Item-Writing Manuals,
which give valuable insights into the philosophy of how the GED questions are
formulated; and we pester the GEDTS at every opportunity for more info.
Teachers have found this to be valuable for the most part.
 
Lately I have focused
more on the Math because it is the main reason for GED failures and it is far
and away the main reason that GED grads end up in developmental courses.
 
Last spring, after it
finally sunk in that GED grads were not getting anywhere near as far
as they needed in post-secondary education, that a great majority were wallowing in (mostly math) developmental
courses, that poor performance on the ACCUPLACER math test was one of the
main reasons for that, and that there was no correlation between a GED
math score and an ACCUPLACER algebra score, I took the ACCUPLACER
Algebra test (something I recommend everyone interested in this subject to do).
And I almost threw up, not just for myself, trying to battle through it, but
for our GED grads, knowing what it was going to look like to them. So I took
the ACCUPLACER dozens more times and I have put together another presentation
for teachers and program directors which talks about the differences (in
philosophy, in how the test is presented and taken, and in the skills sets
needed) and starts the dialogue as to how we can create a GED math curriculum
that prepares our students to pass the GED tests, do well enough on the
ACCUPLACER to avoid developmental courses, and succeed in college Math classes.
 
(Here's a brief
example: if the GED test wants you to use the formula for the area of a
rectangle, it will create a "real-life" situation in a word problem,
somebody building a patio or whatever, and the answer will be what our GED
students consider an "answer," "460 square feet" or
something like that. On the ACCUPLACER, the rectangle will have a width of
"x" and a length of "x + 3," so the area will be (I can't
type the exponent, but...) "x2 + 3x" and all the
multiple-choice wrong answers will be in that form, more or less.)
 
These presentations
have been great for me because of the tremendous enthusiasm and input from the
teachers, "Well, here's a difficulty you present and here's how I address
that in my class." And the discussion this week has been fabulous in that
respect as well: so many dedicated people and so many fantastic ideas I can
hardly steal them all.
 
If anyone were
to e-mail me off-list, I could send you my PowerPoint presentation: one
man's opinion, a work in progress, but perhaps food for further thought.
Tom Mechem 
GED State Chief Examiner 
Department of Elementary & Secondary  Education 
Commonwealthof Massachusetts 
781-338-6621 
"GED to Ph.D." 
-----Original
Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf
Of Ramsey Ludlow
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009
8:50 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1684] Re:
Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.
Very interesting, Donna. You
refer to Tom Mechem's  identification of the math that is tested on the
Accuplacer. What are those, and how do we get that info? 

Thanks,

Ramsey Ludlow
Oxford /
Buckfield Hills Adult Education
South Paris , Maine 04281

Donna Chambers wrote: 
Jessie,
 
Thank you for bringing up the issue of
the less rigorous current NEDP math requirements.  As you mentioned, CASAS
is in the process of revalidating the competencies, but we cannot
wait for this work to be completed.  Here is how we are planning to
address this in RI to be fare to the NEDP graduates who are planning to move on
to college or other post-secondary programs through our Transitions program.
 
All NEDP candidates are informed when they first
enter the program that by fulfilling the national requirements they will still
need further work to meet the demands of most post-secondary
programs.   Since our pilot will blend both TTC and NEDP, candidates
will fulfill the NEDP math requirements as a first step and a base. 
This math is basic arithmetic.  Our combined National External
Diploma Program/Transitions to College Program will have the additional
requirements of learning, practicing and being assessed in the math that
is being tested on the Accuplacer (which my good buddy, Tom Mechem, has so
painstakingly identified.)   This is targeted scaffold instruction
that requires competency-based assessment (no one gets by without demonstrating
understanding).  You might call this NEDP Plus,  since these
participants will be going beyond the NEDP competencies to earn their diploma.
The reading and writing will also have increased rigor.  What we will be
doing is adding RI Transitions to College requirements to the NEDP
requirements.  This work does not change the existing NEDP requirements,
but offers additional activities beyond for our Rhode Islanders.
 
Massachusetts Adult Diploma Program has a similar
process in that all diploma participants must meet the state MCAS rcompetency
determination before a diploma can be awarded.  In many ways, these
graduates are more ready academically to transition into college because
they are required to demonstrate understanding. 
 
I hope this helps. 
Donna Chambers
 
 
 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
From:Jessie Stadd 
To:Assessment at nifl.gov 
Sent:Wednesday,
February 04, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject:[Assessment
1677] Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.
 
Hi All,
I am the Program
Coordinator for Academy of Hope and Beyond Talent's Pathways College Preparation
Program, currently Washington  D.C. 's only college prep program
for adult learners.  Unlike states where adult ed programs are housed in
community colleges or public schools, the district relies on community-based
non-profit organizations such as ours. In addition to Pathways, Academy of Hope offers ABE/GED classes and Beyond
Talent offers peer-mentoring to non-traditional graduates.
 
Pathways follows the
College Prep model and is comprised of three month-long modules: writing, math,
and college prep & career development (applications, financial aid
documents, etc.).  Our Pathways students are primarily GED or EDP
graduates, although we have had several high school graduates in the program.
All enter the program with generally weak math skills. Most will attend our
local university, UDC, or neighboring community colleges in Virginia 
or Maryland ,
all of which use the Accuplacer. Prior to starting, most of our GED and EDP
graduates placed into remedial math classes. 
 
To address your point,
Donna, while all of our students need extra work in math, we have found that
GED graduates generally have higher math skills than our EDP graduates. Our GED
graduates have some understanding of algebra (at least of its existence!) but
that is not the case for the EDP grads. EDP learners entering the program
scored in the 210s and 220s on the B level math CASAS. As a GED instructor, I
had always felt that the less rigorous math requirements of EDP were a benefit
and allowed students to earn a credential who otherwise might not. However, as
a college prep program coordinator, EDP is doing a disservice to its students
who believe that since they earned an actual high school diploma they are
prepared for college. I understand that EDP is now in the process of revamping
their competencies to increase the amount of math required. For those students
who are interested in pursuing higher education, I do believe this is a
positive step.
 
Thank you,
Jessie Stadd
AoH Program
Coordinator, Pathways  College Preparation
Program
Lifelong Learning
Coach, Academy of Hope/Beyond Talent

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