Thanks Susan, I would like a copy also. 

Linda Cheek
Basic Education Coordinator
Adult Education
Prince George's Community College
301-322-0891

>>> dcw113 at psu.edu 02/06/09 1:37 PM >>>


Susan,
I'd like one, too. Is it available online?
Drucie Weirauch

At 10:03 AM 2/6/2009, you wrote:

>Hi Susan,

>I'd also like to request a copy, if I could.

>Thanks,

>Jessie

>

>On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Susan Kidd 

><<mailto:SKidd at sbctc.edu>SKidd at sbctc.edu> wrote:

>

>A couple of years ago a group of ABE math teachers from Washington 

>State looked at the content of  CASAS Life Skills and Employability, 

>the GED and both the COMPASS and ASSET Numeracy/Pre-Algebra tests. 

>If anyone would like to see the crosswalk they created, I'd be glad 

>to send you a copy.

>

>

>

>

>

>Susan

>

>

>

>Susan Kidd

>

>ABE Professional Development Coordinator

>

>State Board for Community & Technical Colleges

>

>office phone: 509-682-6968

>

>cell phone: 509-630-4520

>

><mailto:skidd at sbctc.edu>skidd at sbctc.edu

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>From: 

><mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

>[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Joyce Winters

>

>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:50 AM

>To: The Assessment Discussion List

>Subject: [Assessment 1696] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

>

>

>

>Thanks so much for your work and offer to share it, Tom.  Has anyone 

>also done this kind of work with the Compass placement test?

>

>

>

>

>

>Joyce Winters,

>

>Professional Development Specialist

>

>NWRC/Owens Community College

>

>2249 Tracy Road, Room 169

>

>Northwood, Ohio 43619

>

>567-661-7675

>

><mailto:joyce_winters at owens.edu>joyce_winters at owens.edu

>

>

>

> >>> "Mechem, Thompson" 

> <<mailto:tmechem at doe.mass.edu>tmechem at doe.mass.edu> 2/5/2009 10:35 AM

>>>

>

>Ramsey, et al.---

>

>

>

>Well, I can tell you what in my amateurish way I have done. For a 

>number of years part of my job has been to make presentations to GED 

>teachers and program directors regarding what skill sets are needed 

>for success on the five parts of the GED tests. As you know, no one 

>can see the GED tests, so it's hard for teachers to know what to 

>teach or what it means that one of their students got a 410 on the 

>Writing test, and so on. The GED Testing Service in Washington 

>provides us with valuable information on the most-missed questions 

>(based on their analysis of every test taken world-wide since 

>January 1, 2002); we have the GED Item-Writing Manuals, which give 

>valuable insights into the philosophy of how the GED questions are 

>formulated; and we pester the GEDTS at every opportunity for more 

>info. Teachers have found this to be valuable for the most part.

>

>

>

>Lately I have focused more on the Math because it is the main reason 

>for GED failures and it is far and away the main reason that GED 

>grads end up in developmental courses.

>

>

>

>Last spring, after it finally sunk in that GED grads were not 

>getting anywhere near as far as they needed in post-secondary 

>education, that a great majority  were wallowing in (mostly math) 

>developmental courses, that poor performance on the ACCUPLACER math 

>test was one of the main reasons for that, and that there was no 

>correlation between a GED math score and an ACCUPLACER algebra 

>score, I took the ACCUPLACER Algebra test (something I recommend 

>everyone interested in this subject to do). And I almost threw up, 

>not just for myself, trying to battle through it, but for our GED 

>grads, knowing what it was going to look like to them. So I took the 

>ACCUPLACER dozens more times and I have put together another 

>presentation for teachers and program directors which talks about 

>the differences (in philosophy, in how the test is presented and 

>taken, and in the skills sets needed) and starts the dialogue as to 

>how we can create a GED math curriculum that prepares our students 

>to pass the GED tests, do well enough on the ACCUPLACER to avoid 

>developmental courses, and succeed in college Math classes.

>

>

>

>(Here's a brief example: if the GED test wants you to use the 

>formula for the area of a rectangle, it will create a "real-life" 

>situation in a word problem, somebody building a patio or whatever, 

>and the answer will be what our GED students consider an "answer," 

>"460 square feet" or something like that. On the ACCUPLACER, the 

>rectangle will have a width of "x" and a length of "x + 3," so the 

>area will be (I can't type the exponent, but...) "x2 + 3x" and all 

>the multiple-choice wrong answers will be in that form, more or less.)

>

>

>

>These presentations have been great for me because of the tremendous 

>enthusiasm and input from the teachers, "Well, here's a difficulty 

>you present and here's how I address that in my class." And the 

>discussion this week has been fabulous in that respect as well: so 

>many dedicated people and so many fantastic ideas I can hardly steal

them all.

>

>

>

>If anyone were to e-mail me off-list, I could send you my PowerPoint 

>presentation: one man's opinion, a work in progress, but perhaps 

>food for further thought.

>

>Tom Mechem

>GED State Chief Examiner

>Department of Elementary & Secondary Education

>Commonwealth of Massachusetts

>781-338-6621

>"GED to Ph.D."

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: 

><mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

>[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Ramsey Ludlow

>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:50 AM

>To: The Assessment Discussion List

>Subject: [Assessment 1684] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

>

>Very interesting, Donna. You refer to Tom Mechem's  identification 

>of the math that is tested on the Accuplacer. What are those, and 

>how do we get that info?

>

>Thanks,

>

>Ramsey Ludlow

>Oxford / Buckfield Hills Adult Education

>South Paris, Maine 04281

>

>Donna Chambers wrote:

>

>Jessie,

>

>

>

>Thank you for bringing up the issue of the less rigorous current 

>NEDP math requirements.  As you mentioned, CASAS is in the process 

>of revalidating the competencies, but we cannot wait for this work 

>to be completed.  Here is how we are planning to address this in RI 

>to be fare to the NEDP graduates who are planning to move on to 

>college or other post-secondary programs through our Transitions

program.

>

>

>

>All NEDP candidates are informed when they first enter the program 

>that by fulfilling the national requirements they will still need 

>further work to meet the demands of most post-secondary 

>programs.   Since our pilot will blend both TTC and NEDP, candidates 

>will fulfill the NEDP math requirements as a first step and a 

>base.  This math is basic arithmetic.  Our combined National 

>External Diploma Program/Transitions to College Program will have 

>the additional requirements of learning, practicing and being 

>assessed in the math that is being tested on the Accuplacer (which 

>my good buddy, Tom Mechem, has so painstakingly identified.)   This 

>is targeted scaffold instruction that requires competency-based 

>assessment (no one gets by without demonstrating 

>understanding).  You might call this NEDP Plus,  since these 

>participants will be going beyond the NEDP competencies to earn 

>their diploma. The reading and writing will also have increased 

>rigor.  What we will be doing is adding RI Transitions to College 

>requirements to the NEDP requirements.  This work does not change 

>the existing NEDP requirements, but offers additional activities 

>beyond for our Rhode Islanders.

>

>

>

>Massachusetts Adult Diploma Program has a similar process in that 

>all diploma participants must meet the state MCAS rcompetency 

>determination before a diploma can be awarded.  In many ways, these 

>graduates are more ready academically to transition into college 

>because they are required to demonstrate understanding.

>

>

>

>I hope this helps.

>

>Donna Chambers

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>   ----- Original Message -----

>

>From: <mailto:jstadd at gmail.com>Jessie Stadd

>

>To: <mailto:Assessment at nifl.gov>Assessment at nifl.gov

>

>Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:13 PM

>

>Subject: [Assessment 1677] Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

>

>

>

>Hi All,

>

>I am the Program Coordinator for Academy of Hope and Beyond Talent's 

>Pathways College Preparation Program, currently Washington D.C.'s 

>only college prep program for adult learners.  Unlike states where 

>adult ed programs are housed in community colleges or public 

>schools, the district relies on community-based non-profit 

>organizations such as ours. In addition to Pathways, Academy of Hope 

>offers ABE/GED classes and Beyond Talent offers peer-mentoring to 

>non-traditional graduates.

>

>

>

>Pathways follows the College Prep model and is comprised of three 

>month-long modules: writing, math, and college prep & career 

>development (applications, financial aid documents, etc.).  Our 

>Pathways students are primarily GED or EDP graduates, although we 

>have had several high school graduates in the program. All enter the 

>program with generally weak math skills. Most will attend our local 

>university, UDC, or neighboring community colleges in Virginia or 

>Maryland, all of which use the Accuplacer. Prior to starting, most 

>of our GED and EDP graduates placed into remedial math classes.

>

>

>

>To address your point, Donna, while all of our students need extra 

>work in math, we have found that GED graduates generally have higher 

>math skills than our EDP graduates. Our GED graduates have some 

>understanding of algebra (at least of its existence!) but that is 

>not the case for the EDP grads. EDP learners entering the program 

>scored in the 210s and 220s on the B level math CASAS. As a GED 

>instructor, I had always felt that the less rigorous math 

>requirements of EDP were a benefit and allowed students to earn a 

>credential who otherwise might not. However, as a college prep 

>program coordinator, EDP is doing a disservice to its students who 

>believe that since they earned an actual high school diploma they 

>are prepared for college. I understand that EDP is now in the 

>process of revamping their competencies to increase the amount of 

>math required. For those students who are interested in pursuing 

>higher education, I do believe this is a positive step.

>

>

>

>Thank you,

>

>Jessie Stadd

>

>AoH Program Coordinator, Pathways College Preparation Program

>

>Lifelong Learning Coach, Academy of Hope/Beyond Talent

>

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