Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j7OK4fG15097; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <55E463DA.4AB3C9BC.0006CB3C@netscape.net> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: tjjhjr@netscape.net To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11083] Re: Thank You and Continued Search for X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Status: O Content-Length: 21870 Lines: 785 and now read this Date: 8/22/2005 2:38:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: "Lynda Terrill" <lterrill@cal.org> To: <tjjhjr@netscape.net> Cc: <Connie.Harich@ed.gov>, <MaryJo.Maralit@ed.gov> « Previous | Next » Dear Mr. Harrison, On December 28, 2004 (NIFL-ESL:10648), I wrote to you and reminded you of the NIFL discussion lists' netiquette rules at http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/nifl-esl/netiquette_nifl-esl.html. I highlighted the following section of the rules: "learning is promoted by dialogue in a spirit of inquiry, curiosity, and mutual respect. Please conduct your discussions in that spirit on this list." In that email, I also said, "Mr. Harrison, do not send an inappropriate letter to NIFL-ESL gain, or NIFL staff will need to consider taking you off the list again." Nonetheless, your recent posting (NIFL-ESL:11076) is inappropriate for several reasons, most importantly for the uncorroborated negative statements you made regarding a school in Frederick, Maryland and UMBC. In addition, you continue to not identify yourself, to "shout" with capital letters, and, overall, write in a way that is contrary to the rules and goals of the list. I have been in contact with my colleagues at NIFL (whom I have cc'ed on this email) and we are in agreement that if you make another inappropriate statement to the NIFL-ESL list, you will automatically be taken off the list again. Sincerely, Lynda Terrill NIFL-ESL Moderator Center for Adult English Language Acquisition Center for Applied Linguistics 4646 40th St, NW Washington, DC lterrill@cal.org tel 202-362-0700 fax 202-363-7204 http://www.cal.org/caela Ken Todd <kentodd@udel.edu> wrote: >University of Maryland-Baltimore County > >Mona Curtis wrote: >> What's UMBC? >> >> Mona Curtis >> ESL Coordinator >> Treasure Valley Community College >> 650 College Blvd. >> Ontario, OR 97914 >> www.tvcc.cc >> 541-881-8822 x 316 >> fax 541-881-2747 >> >> >>>>>tjjhjr@netscape.net 08/20/05 09:01AM >>> >>>> >> This is what was done in Fredick , Maryland where the ESL staff >> instructed us....under observation from UMBC...."you are here to help us >> warehopuse them until they quit"...fortunately for those students the >> Office of Civil Rights US DEPT of ED forced that district, whose program >> had ties to UMBC, to sign a 12 point agreement which goes beyond this >> email and gets to the heart of EQUITABLE EDUCATION .....AND BEYOND 54 >> STUDENTS IN A ROOM, SEGREGATION BY LANGUAGE, COMPUTER USE FOR ALL >> STUDENTS, NOT JUST 'AMERICANS', OPEN RECORDS, BOOKS AND MATERIAL, AND >> MUCH MUCH MORE......TO PREACH ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER IS SAD >> >> >> >> Jodi Crandall <crandall@umbc.edu> wrote: >> >> >>>If I sent this previously, apologies, but I just found this in my >> >> "drafts:: >> >>>------ >>>I have read the discussion on Caribbean students with interest, and >>>though my experience is more with students from secondary settings, I >> >> >>>thought I'd provide what I learned in working for several years with >>>these students and their teachers. >>> >>>This question is not new to ESL. The issue of what to do with >> >> students >> >>>who come from countries in which English is an official >>>language--usually those countries which were British colonies--is one >> >> >>>that is very timely in K-12 education in both the United States and >>>Canada. The situation is complex, but let me try to indicate some of >> >> >>>what those of us who have worked in this area have learned and how it >> >> >>>might apply to adult education. >>> >>>Students from these countries--if they are educated!--learn a variety >> >> of >> >>>standard English in their countries which is somewhat different from >>>American English, but is nonetheless, intelligible to American >> >> teachers >> >>>and these students should be placed with English-speaking students. >>>They will have some differences in their English (pronunciation, some >> >> >>>vocabulary items, etc.) but these will not be substantial enough to >>>prevent them from participating in mainstream classrooms. However, >> >> many >> >>>of those coming from Caribbean countries where English is the >> >> offiicial >> >>>language and the language of education (countries such as Jamaica, >>>Trinidad and Tobago, Belize, etc.) and from West African countries >> >> like >> >>>Liberia, Ghana, etc. have limited formal schooling, and thus, they >> >> speak >> >>>(and more importantly, write) a Creolized variety of English which >>>contains features which are more reflective of the African languages >>>that are part of those Creoles, than of the more Standard Englishes >> >> that >> >>>are spoken by educated people in their countries. >>> >>>The unfortunate part of this is that in places where there are few >>>speakers of Caribbean (or West-African) Englishes with limited formal >> >> >>>schooling, these students will likely be placed with ESL students. >>>Neither the reading specialist nor the regular classroom (or English) >> >> >>>teacher (or in adult education, the ABE instructor) feels qualified to >> >> >>>teach someone whose English is so different from that spoken by other >> >> >>>English-speaking students. However, the students DO speak English and >> >> >>>are thus, not surprisingly, quite insulted when they are viewed as >> >> being >> >>>non-native speakers. Their problems are different from those of >>>students from other language backgrounds; they are also different from >> >> >>>English-speaking adults with limited reading or writing skills. >>> >>>We can only expect this situation to grow in the US, since there are >> >> now >> >>>more than 60 countries in which English is an official language and >>>children have some (often limited) opportunity to speak English, >> >> though >> >>>their education in that language may be limited. Again, however, >> >> those >> >>>who have substantial education in whatever variety of English will not >> >> >>>have as much difficulty in U.S. educational contexts, since educated >> >> (or >> >>>standard) varieties of English around the world (which are based on >>>written varieties) do not differ nearly as much as oral varieties. >>> >>>I've provided a website with an article I wrote about this for the >>>ERIC/CLL News Bulletin, "The DO Speak English: World Englishes in U.S. >> >> >>>Schools" whicht discusses the issue and provides concrete suggestions >> >> >>>for appropriate instruction, especially for adolescents. Some of the >> >> >>>guidelines include: >>>--Fostering an atmosphere of respect for different varieties of >> >> English >> >>>--Building on the English varieties students bring to class >>>--Focusing on developing written Standard American English >>>--Being explicit about differences between students' Englishes and >>>Standard American English >>>--Being cautious in interpreting the results of standardized tests in >> >> >>>English >>>--Developing special instructional programs for those with limited >>>literacy or formal schooling >>> >>> >>> >>>http://www.cal.org/resources/news/2003summer/sum03newsfinal.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>>JUDITH SINCLAIR wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Once again, we appreciate Ms. Chitester's comments, >>>>and we most certainly welcome other responses to our original >>> >> request. >> >>>>Thank you. >>>> >>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Deborah Jill Chitester MS CCC SLP" <djcslp@slllc.org> >>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:54 PM >>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11040] Re: Thank You and Continued Search for >>> >> Caribbean >> >>>>Students Information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Further, students who self identify as English speaking may be not >>>>>reliable >>>>>and often are not. English literate CALP and English basic BICs are >>>> >> very >> >>>>>different. Self identification should be eliminated via a >>>> >> standardized >> >>>>>measure or some other informal instrument.The response was not a >>>> >> review >> >>>>>but >>>>>consisted of guesses based on sketchy, incomplete info needed for a >>>> >> valid >> >>>>>comrpehensive response. I am sorry if this offends you which it >>>> >> appears >> >>>>>but >>>>>I am an expert in this area and do these case analyses daily and >>>> >> know what >> >>>>>info needs to be supplied. if the info is not available, then the >>>>>implication is more needs to be done on your end to exclude or >>>> >> include >> >>>>>various phenomena as accounting for various issues etc you note and >>>>>observe.Thank you ....I feel somewhat uncomfortable by your response >>>> >> and >> >>>>>lord knows I am busy so for now I m signing off. Thanks >>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>> -Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), 732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain information >>>> >> that is >> >>>>>privileged, >>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If >>>> >> you >> >>>>>are >>>>>not >>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>> >> disclosure, >> >>>>>copying, >>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein including >>>> >> any >> >>>>>reliance >>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in >>>> >> >>>>>error, >>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in >>>> >> its >> >>>>>entirety, >>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "Deborah J.C. MS CCC/SLP" <deb_bil_slp@yahoo.com> >>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:46 PM >>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11039] Re: Thank You and Continued Search for >>>> >> Caribbean >> >>>>>Students Information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I appreciate your response but much more info is needed to answer >>>>> >> you >> >>>>>>properly-I know what you seek but info is missing. If someone can >>>>> >> answer >> >>>>>>this comprehensively with the info supplied, then I am doing >>>>> >> something >> >>>>>>wrong. And I know this is not the case. Sorry again. Gotta run-got >>>>> >> some >> >>>>>>publishing deadlines-look forward to seeing if I am missing >>>>> >> something. >> >>>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>>> -Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), 732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain information >>>>> >> that is >> >>>>>>privileged, >>>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If >>>>> >> you >> >>>>>>are >>>>>>not >>>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>> >> disclosure, >> >>>>>>copying, >>>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein including >>>>> >> any >> >>>>>>reliance >>>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission >>>>> >> in >> >>>>>>error, >>>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in >>>>> >> its >> >>>>>>entirety, >>>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "JUDITH SINCLAIR" <j-p-sinclair@worldnet.att.net> >>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:17 PM >>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11038] Thank You and Continued Search for >>>>> >> Caribbean >> >>>>>>Students Information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Our thanks to Deborah Jill Chitester MS CCC SLP for her excellent >>>>>> >> review >> >>>>>>>of >>>>>>>our request. >>>>>>>We welcome all responses, and look forward to hearing from our >>>>>>>colleagues >>>>>>>through NIFL-ESL. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>>>>> >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "Deborah Jill Chitester MS CCC SLP" <djcslp@slllc.org> >>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:06 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11037] Re: PS to Search for support materials >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Much more info is needed to answer this question appropriately. >>>>>>> >> How >> >>>>>>>>long >>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>these Carribean students in the US? What is their level of >>>>>>>>acculturation? >>>>>>>>Very often people who are second language learners identify >>>>>>> >> themselves >> >>>>>>>>as >>>>>>>>English speaking for political purposes and due to such pressures >>>>>>> >> when >> >>>>>>>>in >>>>>>>>reality this is not the case. An ethnographic interview >>>>>>> >> detailing >> >>>>>>>>language >>>>>>>>background and use and level of acculturation is very important. >>>>>>> >> I am >> >>>>>>>>currently putting together a comprehsive guide to how this should >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>occur. >>>>>>>>Until these answers are obtained, it is hard to answer re: >>>>>>> >> reading >> >>>>>>>>comprehension..Second language acquisition and acculturation as >>>>>>> >> well as >> >>>>>>>>eliminating lang problems as an etiology is critical. >>>>>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>>>>> -Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), 732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain information >>>>>>> >> that >> >>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>privileged, >>>>>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. >>>>>>> >> If you >> >>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>> >> disclosure, >> >>>>>>>>copying, >>>>>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein >>>>>>> >> including any >> >>>>>>>>reliance >>>>>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission >>>>>>> >> in >> >>>>>>>>error, >>>>>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in >>>>>>> >> its >> >>>>>>>>entirety, >>>>>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "JUDITH SINCLAIR" <j-p-sinclair@worldnet.att.net> >>>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 4:39 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11036] PS to Search for support materials >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks to all of you who have taken time to read our message. >>>>>>>> >> We have >> >>>>>>>>>had >>>>>>>>>several interesting responses, and a few good questions. We >>>>>>>> >> would >> >>>>>>>>>like >>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>provide additional information to our request for information >>>>>>>>>regarding >>>>>>>>>Caribbean students' literacy progress in U. S. jobs and schools: >>>>>>>> >> It is >> >>>>>>>>>our >>>>>>>>>experience working with Caribbean students that they consider >>>>>>>> >> English >> >>>>>>>>>as >>>>>>>>>their first language. The assure us that they are first and >>>>>>>> >> foremost >> >>>>>>>>>English speaking, and that they are neither ESL or bilingual. >>>>>>>> >> Yet, >> >>>>>>>>>it >>>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>>also our experience that many of these students face >>>>>>>> >> significant >> >>>>>>>>>challenges >>>>>>>>>when they are presented with standard tests for professional and >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>school >>>>>>>>>work. We are looking for more information regarding Caribbean >>>>>>>>>students >>>>>>>>>who >>>>>>>>>consider English as their first language, and their ability to >>>>>>>> >> take >> >>>>>>>>>professional and school tests. For example, are they >>>>>>>> >> compromised in >> >>>>>>>>>reading >>>>>>>>>comprehension tests? Do they do well in their writing sample >>>>>>>> >> tests? >> >>>>>>>>>If >>>>>>>>>so, >>>>>>>>>why? If not, why? We are interested in a variety of >>>>>>>> >> perspectives, >> >>>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>>appreciate your response. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thank you again. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>>>>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>>>>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "Deborah J.C. MS CCC/SLP" <deb_bil_slp@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 1:49 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11035] Re: Search for support materials >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Please check my site and email me privately re: some pieces I >>>>>>>>> >> have >> >>>>>>>>>>written. >>>>>>>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>>>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>>>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>>>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>>>>>>> -Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>>>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>>>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>>>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), 732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain >>>>>>>>> >> information >> >>>>>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>>>privileged, >>>>>>>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable >>>>>>>>> >> law. If >> >>>>>>>>>>you >>>>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >>>>>>>>> >> disclosure, >> >>>>>>>>>>copying, >>>>>>>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein >>>>>>>>> >> including >> >>>>>>>>>>any >>>>>>>>>>reliance >>>>>>>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this >>>>>>>>> >> transmission in >> >>>>>>>>>>error, >>>>>>>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material >>>>>>>>> >> in its >> >>>>>>>>>>entirety, >>>>>>>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>>From: "JUDITH SINCLAIR" <j-p-sinclair@worldnet.att.net> >>>>>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 1:33 PM >>>>>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11034] Search for support materials >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Hello: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>As part of our work we look at various cultures that are >>>>>>>>>>>relatively/new >>>>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>>America to determine how to best address their educational >>>>>>>>>> >> needs. >> >>>>>>>>>>>We >>>>>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>>>>currently looking for materials, papers, personal narratives, >>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>journal >>>>>>>>>>>articles and the like that discuss challenges students from >>>>>>>>>> >> the >> >>>>>>>>>>>Caribbean >>>>>>>>>>>islands face when they come to the United States to attend >>>>>>>>>> >> school or >> >>>>>>>>>>>obtain >>>>>>>>>>>work. We are most interested in reading comprehension >>>>>>>>>> >> problems, and >> >>>>>>>>>>>Caribbean students' ability to successfully pass written >>>>>>>>>> >> school and >> >>>>>>>>>>>professional tests. If anyone has information regarding this >>>>>>>>>> >> topic, >> >>>>>>>>>>>please >>>>>>>>>>>let us know. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>>>>>>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>>>>>>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>___________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer >>>>>>>10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. >>>>>>>Signup at www.doteasy.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall >>>Professor and Director >>>Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program >>>University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) >>>1000 Hilltop Circle >>>Baltimore, MD 21250 >>> >>>tel: 410-455-2313 >>>fax: 410-455-8947 >>>email: crandall@umbc.edu >>>www.umbc.edu/llc >>>www.umbc.edu/esol >>> >>> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ >> Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >> As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at >> http://isp.netscape.com/register >> >> Netscape. Just the Net You Need. >> >> New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >> Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >> Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
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