I agree. When I'm teaching French I do repetition for rhythm and intonation. Sometimes students object because it's "chunked" and many syllables may be missing in authentic speech, or it's "too fast." But I find that the automaticity of at least oral input of a phonemic system helps immeasurably in eventual comprehension. And, (gasp!) for the same reasons, I will correct. ELLs have often told me they want to be corrected because they want to be reassured they're speaking well, and I don't see why French language learners shouldn't as well. But not too much, and certainly not in an authentic conversation.
Bonnie Odiorne, Post University




________________________________
From: Lynne Weintraub <lynneweintraub at hotmail.com>
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2009 12:26:54 PM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4417] Re: [Technology 2056] Re: teachers aslanguage/different learners

I agree with Ted--I know it's out of vogue and all that, but as a student of Spanish way back in high school, I actually found the audiolingual methods helpful in developing accuracy and "habituating" oral language. If it had been used in conjunction with more communicative methods, I'd have done very well with it, and I think students today would too.

Lynne Weintraub 
Amherst MA




 EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD
Join me 

________________________________
From: taklein at austin.rr.com
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:39:15 -0500
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4414] Re: [Technology 2056] Re: teachers aslanguage/different learners


Bonnie,

Being an old timer, I can tell you a little bit about the old "pure" audio-lingual methodology. Back in the early 60's it was mostly a matter of doing substitution and transformation drills and not worrying about whether there was any explanation of the content. This was mostly in reaction to the old grammar/translation methods, which weren't productive for most people. The strange thing is that a lot of English was acquired the audio-lingual way and students were "habituated" into making new utterances. We used a lot of it in the international student programs at The University of Texas and most of our students went on to get into UT or other universities. A majority graduated. To what degree this was thanks to the instruction and to what degree the English native-speaker environment contributed the most to our success, nobody knows. The problem is that once this methodology was denounced, even after it had evolved into more meaningful contexts, the
 detractors threw out the baby with the bath and insisted on "cognitive methodology," which meant give a lot of information about the language and the students "will piece it together." After that, came "teachers shouldn't teach, but learners should learn," etc. and a whole series of other "thou shalt nots." I went on using a bit of all of this and still do and have found that it probably all works if there is motivation on the part of the students and plenty of communication occurs. I never felt that any of it was "oppressive." However, what works is what matters. Over the years I have gotten quite tired of going to professional conferences where some expert comes in and says "stop everything, this is it." Probably it's all good and some of it is better.
 
www.tedklein-ESL.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Bonnie Odiorne 
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List 
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:33 PM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4399] Re: [Technology 2056] Re: teachers aslanguage/different learners

Waconda, I appreciate your post, and I think I can explain the "deadly oppression of audio-lingualism." That was a method that relied if memory serves only on situational phrases that were learned verbatim without students' seeing the written form, let alone knowing the grammar, which allowed for no creativity in putting the pieces together to form independent sentences, a la Chomsky. Sort of like, and I'm goig to open a can of worms here, doing whole language without any phonemic or vocabulary embedding. I know we are all embroiled in the debates about when/if to teach grammar in a communicative setting. My understanding is that communicative language that's complemented by some kind of structure (grammar, syntax, vocabulary) os what's turned out to work best. A new French text I'll be using has a separate grammar section to be learned independently by students, and it's introduced by Krashen! I've tried the grammar/structure enhanced comunicative
 approach and that doesn't work either. 
However, the real reason I responded is the point you made about many teachers having been star students, which makes us interested, passionate, and informed about our ffield of study and, I would venture, many others as well. This reminder is well worth our while to note that many of our students, for whatever reason, aren't quick studies, do not have intrinsic learning motivation, which I can't imagine, are not, without a great deal of motivation, interested in learning just for the sake of learning, do not find "reading for fun" a viable concept unless they're "interested" in what they read, and they're hard put to define what "interested" means. My current academic population, and thus my current filter, is very similar to that described so eloquently by Susan Jones (Academic Development Specialist Center for Academic Success Parkland College Champaign, IL  61821217-353-2056 sujones at parkland.edu Webmastress, http://www.resourceroom.net
 http://bicyclecu.blogspot.com ), the underprepared college student. 
And yet I don't feel I'm incapacitated by this kind of student, just that this kind of learnig/teaching learning style/history requires some kind of adult ed background to understand the population, the culture that's emerging, which is why language learning, even if it's students needing to learn standar academic language as opposed to their street/buds/texting etc. language (not to mention ELLs or LDs). It's these factors that have I think unjustly, led some faculty to condemn the a "bipolar classroom," where some get it and a lot don't. That's another way to desribe a differentiated classroom, or multi-level, which if we're English/language teachers or adult ed we're in all the time. Such teachers need to learn a whole new way of interacting with the current generation; I find my adult returning students to be a breath of fresh air and sanity, but I do try to understand and educate as much as possible the current younger learners, who have as many
 barriers as ABE or ESL students on a different register. This is where I believe technology and multi-media instruction is essental, or the PDA/cell phone/iPod apps, getting us out of the box. I've never wanted to be the sage on the stage, but very often students want to put me there, and see wanting to form circles for easier communication to be "kindergarten." I try to be the guide on the side, but there has to be some intrinsic motivation there for that to work. 
A long rant, and I'm sorry. But I've been trying to find ways to begin writing an article on the adult first-year transition couse I've been teaching, and I'm brainstorming on you guys. Thanks for your patience.
Bonnie Odiorne, Writing Center, Post University

________________________________

From: Waconda Clayworth <wclayworth at yahoo.com>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:25:36 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4387] Re: [Technology 2056] Re: teachers as language learners


Hi and I am not sure why this appeared on my e-mail, but certainly
interesting....many teachers were star students which makes them
interested and to use this decades current buzz- passionate about
what they are doing-and informed...but many students are not
quick studies and even if it seems tedious need to acquire and
get language repeatedly without the deadly oppression of audio
lingualism....and 100 per cent agree that learning a second
language even if one is a quick learner really helps a teacher
to be emphathetic, to really understand that languge learning
is more than a task to be checked off on a to-do list...
I have managed 2 Roman languages and struggled with
an Asiatic one...and not any of that was easy, but think
that patience besides being virtuous can also be a learned
asset....
wec
 Peace in 2009 




________________________________
From: Michael A. Gyori <mgyori at mauilanguage.com>
To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List <technology at nifl.gov>
Cc: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:29:29 PM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4384] Re: [Technology 2056] Re: teachers as language learners

I'm also posting this interaction to the Adult ELL list, as it primarily
belongs there, I believe...

Hello Gail,

I believe that ESL teachers should have experience learning a second
language at least as a foreign language, and ideally as a second language
(by having had to live for some time in a non-English speaking country).  My
sense if that at least many ESL teachers would further enhance their
teaching abilities by having themselves experienced what they teach.  The
challenges presented by learning how to play the piano or soccer are of a
different kind and may not directly inform issues related to L2 acquisition.


Thanks,

Michael
www.mauilanguage.com 


-----Original Message-----
From: technology-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:technology-bounces at nifl.gov] On
Behalf Of Troy, Gail 
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:40 AM
To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Technology 2056] Re: teachers as language learners

Learning other languages (bilingualism) is good; but, teachers need to
learn something out of their comfort zone. That may be another language,
playing an instrument, learning a sports skill, higher math etc; then
the teacher will experience the frustrations that the student
experiences.

Gail Troy, M.Ed
Nelson County Adult GED



-----Original Message-----
From: technology-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:technology-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Paul Rogers
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:15 PM
To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List
Subject: [Technology 2049] teachers as language learners


Steve Kaufmann raises a very important point: teachers need to learn
other languages.
I refer to it as "putting the shoe on the other foot". 
Paul Rogers
805-258-3310
pumarosa21 at yahoo.com
PUMAROSA.COM


--- On Tue, 6/2/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:


> From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>

> Subject: [Technology 2039] Re: Day 2 question to the list

> To: "The Technology and Literacy Discussion List"

<technology at nifl.gov>

> Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2009, 9:20 AM

> 

> I would also suggest that language teachers be asked to

> spend a little time learning another language using

> technology.

> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 7:12 AM, 

> <adam.kieffer at spps.org>

> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> "What will it take to help our colleagues (teachers

> and administrators) try

> 

> technology infused teaching and learning, too?"

> 

> 

> 

> I've had the role of technology coordinator for

> about a year now at my

> 

> school, which is the center of a larger, urban ABE program

> and I'm a

> 

> teacher by training. It's been one of my primary roles

> to do just what the

> 

> above question poses. During my experience the past year, I

> noticed that

> 

> several things are needed to help colleagues infuse

> technology into both

> 

> their teaching and learning:

> 

> 

> 

> 1. a desire to learn

> 

> 2. a positive culture of learning in the school/site

> 

> 3. an administration that values, and therefore plans and

> budgets for,

> 

> hardware, tech training and development and expects tech

> and computer

> 

> competency from staff and new hires

> 

> 4. time (for change, for training, for practice, for things

> to grow)

> 

> 5. persistance

> 

> 

> 

> -Adam Kieffer

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> ----------------------------------------------------

> 

> National Institute for Literacy

> 

> Technology and Literacy mailing list

> 

> Technology at nifl.gov

> 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please

> go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology

> 

> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com

> 

> 

> 

> 

> -- 

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.thelinguist.blogs.com

> www.kpwood.com

> 604-922-8514

> 

> 

> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

> 

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Technology and Literacy mailing list

> Technology at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please

> go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology

> Email delivered to pumarosa21 at yahoo.com



      
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Technology and Literacy mailing list
Technology at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology
Email delivered to gtroy at nelson.k12.va.us
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Technology and Literacy mailing list
Technology at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/technology
Email delivered to mgyori at mauilanguage.com

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to wclayworth at yahoo.com


________________________________

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20090608/1233f7ae/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Ted-cursive.JPG
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 2375 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20090608/1233f7ae/attachment.jpe