Robin Schwartz wrote: "...  Elaine Tarone mentioned about theories about
noticing--if we do not actively notice what is wrong (not have it
pointed out, but consciously think about it as needing correction) then
the errors do not change. "

 

"Noticing" is the start of learning, as Caleb Gattegno described it.
Remembering this truth helps me work with students in a way to make
their learning, not my teaching, the most important factor in play. And
when new tutors hear "all learning starts with noticing," they say,
"A-ha!" and recognize it from their own experience.

 

Judy Rittenhouse, Tutor Coordinator, ProJeCt of Easton, PA

 

  _____  

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of
robinschwarz1 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:33 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3607] Re: Working withlearners
withlimitedliteracy

 

In reviewing some literature about adult second/other language
acquistion, I came across a couple of studies showing that "grammar
sensitivity"-- the ability to know when a sentence is grammatically
correct or not in the language being learned (English in both
cases)--was far lower or even non-existent in immigrants who arrived in
the US as adults compared to those who had arrived as young teens.
Their sensitivity was tested after they had been in the US many years
but had had no formal English instruction.   This is consistent with
theories that indicate that for adults, language acquisition is
conscious and effortful--and this also goes along with what Elaine
Tarone mentioned about theories about noticing--if we do not actively
notice what is wrong (not have it pointed out, but consciously think
about it as needing correction) then the errors do not change.    

As of now, I believe there is almost no research at all telling us what
it is like for non-literates--or especially preliterates (those coming
from cultures with no text tradition) to learn grammar as adults.   The
latter have no language with which to even express the ideas, and none
of the non-literates has even grappled with the concept that language is
a thing that can be talked about and manipulated.    There seems to be a
deeply seated belief among a lot of ESL teachers that teaching grammar
explicitly will help with language learning, but in my observation and
experience as a teacher, there is no direct connection with learning
grammar and PRODUCING correct language unless, as Elaine points out, it
is a consciously applied process.   If grammar were the answer, all
those students who excel at grammar book grammar should be able to speak
and write grammar as well as they do the excercises-- and we all know
THAT is not true.....

Robin Lovrien Schwarz

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Joan <owlhouse at wwt.net>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 8:00 pm
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3592] Re: Working withlearners
withlimitedliteracy

On the issue of teaching grammar...

 

I'm for it!  

 

And, in general, the students are for it - if they're not Korean or
Japanese or come from an education that has rammed grammar down their
throats at the expense of communicative ability.  Not to say that
grammar is not communicative - it definitely is, it definitely is more
than form, it definitely carries meaning, and our students need to know
that and how to get their meaning across.  I am skeptical that most
people will intuit grammatical forms if they receive adequate input. I
have worked with immigrant and refugee high school students - some of
whom have lived their entire lives in the U.S. and gone through the
school system every step of the way - and are still speaking some
interlanguage that is neither English nor their native language, but
some conglomeration of rules that they intuited absolutely incorrectly.
At that point, it's nearly impossible for them to go back and get it
right.

 

I'm not advocating a heavy form-based approach, but definitely some
grammar.  

 

 

----------------------------------------------------






National Institute for Literacy






Adult English Language Learners mailing list






EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov






To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 






http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage






Email delivered to robinschwarz1 at aol.com







 

  _____  

Get instant access to the latest & most popular FREE games while you
browse with the Games Toolbar - Download
<http://toolbar.aol.com/games/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown00000026>
Now! 



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20090127/17840bb0/attachment.html