Hello,

Like Sarah and Meghan, I have found that formal education makes a big
difference in terms of learning English as an adult or as an adolescent.
Over about eight years of teaching ESL to people of all ages, mainly
adults, I have also noticed that those who have a school background
usually have a distinct advantage.  Part of it is because a solid
educational background in your first language assists education in your
second language, which is why bilingual education and native language
literacy programs can make such a big difference, when it's possible to
develop them.  I believe part of it is also, as Sarah put it, because
students with more formal education know HOW to learn.  They have
experience with being a student and they use that.  I believe that having
a school background also increases their confidence and self-esteem when
they start learning English.

Self-esteem and confidence, I have found, also play a role in language
learning, although how much this matters probably varies according to the
student.  People with little school experience are not just unfamiliar
with how to be students; they are also frequently intimidated by the very
concept of school.  It's a completely foreign space and culture to them
and it operates by rules and standards they don't understand.  Where I
teach, I am able to be much less formal than those who work with
preliterate and nonliterate students in public schools, but even in a much
more relaxed setting, these students struggle with learning how things
work in a classroom setting, and it can be scary and frustrating.

I teach refugee adults, many of them preliterate or nonliterate, and for
them to even step into my classroom requires a lot of courage.  It can
take months of invitations and encouragement to even get them to come.  At
least initially, they tend to believe they are not capable.  They need to
be able to achieve a lot small successes, with assistance, just to learn
that if they work hard at something in the classroom, they are capable of
getting it right... just as they are in other areas of their lives where
they have all kinds of real-world skills and experience.  Success comes in
little steps... learning to write their own names, or learning the English
words for colors.  You start with that and build as you can.

Preliterate and nonliterate adult and adolescent students need a lot of
encouragement, reassurance, and, as Steve has said, interesting and
engaging content to keep them coming back.  They need a lot of assistance
and support to help them build appropriate student habits that will help
them learn, and they seem to need just as much assistance and support to
learn to believe that coming to school can actually help them.  They do
not lack motivation; they do, however, often need a lot more support than
other students to sustain that motivation.  This is where good
relationships with the teacher, volunteers, and other students often makes
a world of difference.  Amazing things can happen when preliterate and
nonliterate older students find a supportive community, and they realize
that they have a place in it and are valued.

However, there are constraints in the process that are extremely
frustrating.  Preliterate and nonliterate adults do not have the advantage
of time or of silence - as Karen said, they really need to know all of
this stuff right now.  Getting around in the English-speaking world, being
able to say survival phrases and fill out forms and read signs and ask for
things, etc., is not a temporary band-aid solution.  It's vital, important
knowledge that can make a huge difference in their lives - food stamps,
school services, and other things that I see my students struggle with all
the time as they attempt to work, take care of a household, and raise
children.  Creativity is crucial; so is repetition and visual assistance.
And I think most teachers would agree that the same approach and methods
aren't going to work equally well with all students.  Getting to know your
students and figuring out how they think and respond, and what works for
them, is very very hard to do with students who aren't literate and can't
say much of anything to you.  But it isn't impossible, and it's the best
way I've found of teaching preliterate and nonliterate beginners.

Katie Wood, MATESOL
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council



> I teach ESL classes to Hispanic adults, and my experience has been similar

> to that of Meghan Kasun--my educated students (high school diploma or

> higher, mostly from the cities) learn dramatically faster than the

> uneducated students (some of whom left school after first grade).  Part of

> this is certainly motivation, but there are other factors as well:

>  

> The educated students simply know HOW to learn.  Given any learning task,

> no matter what the subject or teaching method, they learn faster and

> better than the others.  Some of this ability comes from their experience

> as students in their own countries, and it seems likely that the people

> who chose to pursue higher education were the ones who were studious to

> begin with.   

>  

> The educated students are literate in their own language, which makes

> everything easier.

>  

> The educated students tend to spend more time among native English

> speakers, so they have more opportunity to practice their English.  The

> uneducated students generally have factory jobs working among other

> Spanish speakers.  They say they can't practice at work because no one

> else there speaks English.

>  

> I'm not sure self-esteem is a huge factor, but it does seem to have some

> influence.  The uneducated students are inclined to say, "Oh, I can never

> learn!  I left school in second grade, I'm too old to learn now," and

> they stop trying when something seems too hard.  The educated students

> keep going.

>

> --- On Mon, 1/26/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:

>

> From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3570] Re: Working withlearners with limited

> literacy - posted for Martha Bigelow

> To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"

> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> Date: Monday, January 26, 2009, 3:19 PM

>

>

> It has not been my experience that the length of formal education is an

> important indicator of language learning success. Foreign professional

> athletes in North America generally learn to communicate in English better

> than college professors of the same origin. The college educated person

> may understand abstract grammar explanations, but that does not

> necessarily translate into a better ability to communicate. I also doubt

> if self-esteem has much to do with it.

>

> I have met many people of limited education in foreign countries who have

> learned English and other languages in order to interact with tourists. In

> my experience, it is the level of interest in the language, that matters

> the most. That is why providing content of interest to listen to and read,

> rather than grammar drills, tends to produce results.

>

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.lingq.com

>

>

> On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Kasun, Meghan <meghank at forbesroad.com>

> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> "What are some main differences you've noticed among your students with

> limited formal schooling?  How do you explain these differences and what

> do you do to accommodate the differences you've noted?"

>  

> I've taught English as a Second Language for about two and a half years. 

> For the first two years, I was teaching at a young women's vocational

> school in a small village in Indonesia. I taught two different levels of

> English classes, which were beginner and intermediate.  The difference was

> evident between those who had access to quality formal education and those

> who didn't.  Those who finished high school were able to quickly grasp the

> new concepts that I was presenting. They already had somewhat of a

> background in English.  They were able to recite the ABC's, numbers, and

> introductory phrases.  They were more willing to engage in English

> conversation with me and had a greater interest in learning English. 

> These students tended to come from the city, where the schools were of

> better quality.

> The other group of students were from an isolated village in the mountains

> and most had not graduated from high school.  Although these ladies had

> English instruction at some point in their lives, they had to start all

> over at square one again.  We had to study intensively the most basic

> phrases that the other group knew like the back of their hand.  After

> working on a concept for over a week, I would have to continue to drill

> them just so they could remember it.  I noticed that there were often

> mistakes in the spelling and grammar of their own language, which made it

> much more difficult to learn English. 

> However, I truly believe that it was not only the lack of formal education

> that hindered their progress, but it was also the lack of self esteem in

> regards to education.  Somewhere along the way, something happened that

> put their education to a halt.  From that point on, education became a

> privilege that they could no longer enjoy.  Some of them felt that they

> were stupid or unable to learn.  There was also a stereotype associated

> with those who weren't able to finish high school.  Too often, it was the

> poor who weren't able to finish high school because you had to pay. 

> Elementary school and junior high school were free, so the dropout rate

> increased dramatically in high school.  Thus, these students really

> struggled learning English due to their lack of formal education and the

> stereotypes that went with it.

> I came back to the United States in August.  Since then, I have been

> teaching an ESL class of eight beginner level students.  I have noticed

> similar trends in my class here.   There were two students who started at

> the same time and around the same level.  They could barely speak

> anything.  One has a Masters degree in agricultural engineering, and the

> other graduated high school.  Although they both have a high school

> diploma, I can see a great difference in the way that the students learn. 

> For the one with the Masters, I am able to give her exercises in grammar,

> sentence structure, and vocabulary.  She completes them with a great

> amount of success.  However, I noticed that the one who graduated high

> school needs a lot more reinforcement.  Working on exercises using the

> "formulas" to create an English sentence doesn't work for her.  She needs

> a little less formal approach to learning with a focus on speaking. 

> Although this could be merely

>  a difference in learning styles, I found that this was an interesting

> trend.  It would make sense that the Masters degree student would

> gravitate to formal grammar exercises based on her experiences in

> university.  Whereas, it is reasonable to assume that the student who

> graduated high school would feel better about working under less formal

> circumstances.

>>From my experiences, I agree that there is a great difference in the way

>> that students learn based on their previous educational opportunities.

>

>

> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Miriam Burt

> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:17 AM

>

> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3562] Working withlearners with limited literacy

> - posted for Martha Bigelow

>

>  

> I'm posting the following on behalf of Martha Bigelow, guest facilitator

> for this week's discussion on working with adult English language learners

> with limited literacy.

>  

> Best, Miriam

> Miriam Burt, moderator

> Adult English Language Learners discussionlist

> mburt at cal.org

> *****************************************

>  

> Hello, everyone, and welcome to the discussion on teaching English to

> adults with limited formal school and low levels of print literacy.

>  

> I'm passionate about learning how to teach English to adolescents and

> adults with limited formal schooling and low levels of print literacy. 

> I've been deeply involved in the Somali community in Minnesota and have

> done research on issues related literacy and language learning as well as

> research on the social dimensions of the education of newcomers with

> limited formal schooling.  I'm looking forward to a lively discussion and

> sharing of ideas!

> Choose any question below to begin the discussion, or just pose your own

> comment or question!

>  

>

>   What are some main differences you've noticed among your students with

> limited formal schooling?  How do you explain these differences and what

> do you do to accommodate the differences you've noted?

> What are some of the policies or programs at school or in your state that

> need to be changed to better educate adolescent and adult learners with

> limited formal schooling?  I welcome any stories about

> how  policies/programs have been be changed to benefit students with

> limited formal schooling.

>

>

>  What do teachers need to know and be able to do in order to be effective

> in teaching adolescents or adults with limited formal schooling?  What do

> you wish you had learned as a pre-service teacher?

>

>

> What resources can you share that have been helpful in teaching basic

> literacy skills to adolescents or adult?

>

>

>   What ways have you connected your classroom activities to the needs your

> students have outside the classroom?  Do you have any special ways for

> finding out what your students' goals are or why they wish to become

> literate in English?

>

>

>   What other issues you would like to discuss related to this topic?. 

>

>

>  Looking forward to hearing from you, 

> Best,

>  

> Martha Bigelow

> Associate Professor, University of Minnesota  

> mbigelow at umn.edu

>

>

>

> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Miriam Burt

> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:55 AM

> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3557] Discussion next week on working

> withlearners with limited literacy

> Hello, everyone.

>  

> I'm happy to announce that next week, January26-30, this electronic

> discussion list for those who work with adult English language learners

> will have a focused discussion on the topic of

>

> working with adult English language learners who have limited literacy and

> preferences for learning through the oral mode. This topic was selected

> because of suggestions made by list participants this past fall.

>  

> The guest facilitator is Martha Bigelow.  Dr Bigelow teaches in the Second

> Languages and Cultures Program in the Department of Curriculum and

> Instruction at the University of Minnesota. She has studied how English

> language learners (ages 16-28) with low print literacy make use of oral

> feedback, and has examined the strengths and challenges that older

> students with limited formal schooling and low literacy bring to oral

> language development in English. She has also studied the Somali and

> English literacy skills of young Somali women (ages 17-21) who are

> newcomers to the United States and have had limited formal schooling. 

>  

> In preparation:

> If you would like to do a little pre-reading before the discussion, you

> can read a brief article on Dr. Bigelow's work with Somali women; it's on

> a Web page of the University of Minnesota at  

>  

>  http://cehd.umn.edu/Pubs/Research/Bigelow/default.html. 

>  

>  

> You can also read a brief synthesis of recent research and promising

> practices for working with adult English language learners; it's on from

> the CAELA Network at

>  

>  http://www.cal.org/caelanetwork/pd_resources/literacy.html

>  

>  

>

> For more information, including a bio of Dr. Bigelow, see the full

> announcement at

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/englishlanguage//09programs.html

>

>  

>

> To sign up

>

> If you have colleagues who may be interested in joining the list for this

> discussion, please forward this to them and invite them to join!   Here's

> the link to join the discussion list:

>  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage 

>  

>  

> Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you during this discussions –

> and throughout 2009, of course!

>  

> Miriam

> ***********

> Miriam Burt,

> Facilitator, electronic discussion list for those working with adult

> English language learners

> mburt at cal.org

>  

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

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> Email delivered to sarah.houston at yahoo.com

>

>

>       ----------------------------------------------------

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> Email delivered to kwood at gplc.org



Katie Wood, MA TESOL
Teacher and Project Manager
Greater Pittsburgh Literacy Council
Greentree Families for Learning Center
1836 Brett Street, Apartment 1
Pittsburgh, PA 15205
412-921-8114

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