I think it's important to note that it is argued that age doesn't make a difference, but there are good arguments on both sides.  As an adult educator, I point out the very things Michael was talking about to my adult learners to encourage them.  However there are studies, for example Pallier et al 2003 which imply the plasticity of the brain may make it easier for children to learn a second language better than an adult, in this study, to the point of completely replacing the first language.  
 
My personal area of research has to do with identity and language, and naturally adults have much a more fixed sense of who they are, which can also play into the difference in how/how fast/how well people learn.  
 
Age  is a factor and it may be a mediating factor for other predictors, but it certainly is not the only factor, or an insurmountable one.



Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD

ESL Instructor
Austin Learning Academy
841-4777
 

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, Michael A. Gyori <mgyori at mauilanguage.com> wrote:


From: Michael A. Gyori <mgyori at mauilanguage.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4468] EFL/EAL/ESL development worldwide, learner ages, and approaches
To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 4:56 PM








Hello to all,,
 
These two links might provide useful information about age and SLA.
 
For this discussion to lead to new understandings, it is critical to define our terms first, and to conduct well-designed research so that the views put forth are appropriately related.
 
http://ell.tamucc.edu/frameworkfiles/Module%202%20Script%20-%20Second%20Language%20Acquisition.pdf
 
http://faculty.ucmerced.edu/khakuta/research/publications/(2001)%20-%20A%20CRITICAL%20PERIOD%20FOR%20SECOND%20LANGUAGE%20ACQUISITION.pdf
 
Michael
 

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:09 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4464] Re: audio=lingualism and language learningmethods used in other countries
 
Heide,

I know that, but the origin of this thread had to do with the effect of early childhood education on language learning. While I favour introducing languages early, the fact remains that the UK starts kids in school early, the Finns start them late, and the Finns seem to have better results.

All my Swedish friends attribute their English proficiency to TV, not schools.

I understand that Finnish teachers are paid well too!!

Steve

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Wrigley, Heide <heide at literacywork.com> wrote:


Hi, Steve and others 
 
I agree. I think the English language TV programs in Finland and elsewhere make an important contribution to foreign language education. For one thing, they are able to show the kind of natural interactions between people that are difficult to present by one teacher in a classroom . 
 
I wouldn’t totally discount the role of the Finnish schools, however (not that you did). Finland has a model educational system of small schools, lots of small group projects  and group problem solving; open classrooms where different proficiency levels learn together and highly skilled teachers  Finland consistently comes in on top of international comparisons in reading and science – though no large scale comparisons based on proficiency assessments have been done in  foreign language teaching, 
 
Best 
 
Heide
 
 
 

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 2:24 PM


To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4461] Re: audio=lingualism and language learningmethods used in other countries


 
Michael,

I accept that CLIL is an effective way to teach language. In fact my grandkids' French immersion in Canada is one example. I do not believe that this practice is widespread in Scandinavia whereas the availability of English language TV programs is. It  is the exposure to the language through TV, not the school system, that explains to me why Finns speak English better than Turks.

Steve

On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Michael A. Gyori <mgyori at mauilanguage.com> wrote:


Steve,
 
You might wish to check our http://www.factworld.info/ and http://ec.europa.eu/education/languages/language-teaching/doc236_en.htm  for starters.  I will send you information about schools in Turkey  that teach EFL across the curriculum (and how) when my wife, who is from Ankara, and I return from there in late July. 
 
Yes, English language programs on  TV can be a wonderful opportunity for language development.  Content and Language Integrated Learning (CLIL) as a vehicle for EFL/EAL instruction in K-12 and higher ed, however, is not the same as watching TV in English; rather,  L2 is developed by using it as a vehicle for learning school subjects.  The question becomes one of the nature of L2 proficiency we are talking about and aspiring to (as in BICS or CALP).
 
In the meantime, you might Google CLIL + different countries. 
 
Michael
 
 

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 4:04 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4458] Re: audio=lingualism and language learningmethods used in other countries
 
My point is that Scandinavians will usually tell you that they are good at English because of their exposure to TV in the original language. Many Italians deplore that they do not have the same opportunity. I doubt that differences in method of English instruction between Finland and Italy are much of a factor in the different level of English skills. 

My son attended grade 11 in Sweden for a while and English was not taught across the curriculum there. I would be interested to hear where this is done and how it is done.

Steve

On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Michael A. Gyori <mgyori at mauilanguage.com> wrote:


As I stated earlier, some countries teach EFL very successfully because it is taught across the curriculum rather than as a separate “subject.”  Same in Turkey, the Philippines, Switzerland, amongst others…
 
Michael
 

www.mauilanguage.com
 


From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of selover200 at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:23 AM


To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4455] Re: audio=lingualism and language learningmethods used in other countries


 

Greetings:  

 

            I worked in Norway 1 summer, and I stayed with a college student Stavanger,  Norway.  I was very surprised to see that the college text books for many subjects were in English!  

 

With a smaller population for each of the Scandinavian countries and Finland, I think that some college  textbook publishers choose not to translate their books into these 4 different languages, so the students have to learn English to continue their education. 

We all know that reading can help you make great leaps of vocabulary and in processing  grammar, so their English learning would be greatly accelerated, compared to students in "conversational classes".  

 

I could easily got to the cinema in Scandinavia, because the films were not dubbed, they had Norwegian, Danish, or Swedish subtitles.

Add this audio exposure to English in films and TV programs to their reading, and you have a good environment for acquiring English.  

 

Linda Selover

 

 

 

 


----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org>
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 4:52:32 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4453] Re: audio=lingualism and language learningmethods used in other countries

Pax et bonum all! (peace & goodness)
 
I know of no studies to confirm why Swedes, Dutch and even Finns are generally better at English than the French, Spanish and Italians, but many people in those countries do attribute it to the doubling of movies and TV programs. It is one of the explanations I hear most often.
Having had several Scandinavian friends, we discussed their English capabilities, and they said that when travelling around Europe, they met so few fellow Scandinavian speakers, that English was a necessary “Lingua Franca.” Also, the Scandinavian languages are relatively small, lexically speaking, and borrowing foreign words/phrases is very accepted, from my experience.
There might be a smattering of national pride involved also. I know the Academie Francaise tries to keep a control on the import of foreign words, as do many other countries world-wide. I have found the Scandinavians to be some of the most humble cultures.
Now, this is talking about lexicon only. On a larger scale, the Scandinavian languages are closer “cousins” to English (both Germanic) than most other languages, and that may be a factor.
 
Just my two-cents worth!
MartinThis electronic message and its attachments may includeinformation from GECAC that is confidential and may beprotected under federal and/or state law.  This information isintended to be for the use of the intended addressee only.  Theimproper use of this information is prohibited.  If you havereceived this e-mail in error, please notify me immediately bytelephone at (814) 459-4581 or by e-mail so arrangements can bemade for the appropriate retrieval of this document at no cost    to you.

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604-922-8514

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