I find that wrong word choice quite often has to do with grammar: choosing the adjective over the noun form, for example. Wrong forms of verbs are frequent, and relate not just to tense  but to gerunds, past participles, and, gasp! present progresssive. Then I'd have to say that subject/verb and pronoun agreement, with verb tense very close behind. I am not in an employment situation, but in an academic one, where professors,oddly enough, expect perfect writing of their students. As far as I'm concerned, as long as communication is not impeded, it's OK. But in English classes, and when I function as the Writing Center, I need to make sure the grammar is observed for the teachers who will follow me.
How to teach that is another issue; often I'll incorporate explanations when online, or send then to a resource, but in face to face I do incorporate some explaining.
Bonnie



________________________________
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 10:17:34 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3980] Re: past progressive

Bonnie,
By far the most common mistake I find in writing is wrong word choice. Is this not your experience? 

It is unlikely that non-native speakers will end up speaking or writing fault free English, and the odd mistake in prepositions, or articles, or verb agreement or tense is not that important. I have always had about 40% non-native speaking employees, some of them express themselves well, although with mistakes.

I still think reading widely and a system for tracking and noticing the kinds of words and structures that the learner knows cause trouble is more effective than explanation, although explanations can be useful in helping learners notice. However, improvement is a long road and involves many kinds of activities, especially continued exposure to the language.

Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com


On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Lee,
Thanks for this information: I'm glad to hear it. Unfortunately, I took my ESL methods and materials couse at the height of the communicative phase, and given my experience with adult learners whose goal was survival, I failed to see how cartoons and "language gap" activities would help the students I served, who repeatedly were concerned, for their livelihoods, about getting the grammar "right" and who felt diminished if they were speaking what they knew to be imperfect English. Needless to say, I didn't synch with this young professor fresh out of grad school, who supposedly specialized in adult esl and whose only experience with adult learners were TAs from her university. This will be of enormouse help in the writing tutoring I give to ESL students, who, in this univeristy, often end up in the writing center for help. There's also increasing data in respect to online learners (not necessarily ESl) that cognitive processing in auditory and visual
 channels can very quickly become overloaded.
Bonnie Odiorne, Phd. Director Writing Center
Post University
bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net




________________________________
From: "Sledd, Lee" <lsledd at tacomacc.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 6:20:22 PM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3975] Re: past progressive



Krashen would do well to look at recent research in metacognition and its implications for grammar teaching; it explains in some detail the process of getting concepts to 'click in', namely by identifying those concepts rather than keeping their names and structures secrets, as was the fad in the communicative days. Certainly, exposure is key to language learning, but there is also a growing mass of studies that has turned the tide from the days of the Palmolive method of language learning (English? You're soaking in it!)
 
A summary of relevant studies related to grammar teaching is in this volume:
http://books.google.com/books?id=h9vsX4E2rJoC&pg=PA766&dq=metacognition+in+grammar
Handbook of Research in Second Language Teaching and Learning
By Eli Hinkel
Contributor Eli Hinkel
Published by Routledge, 2005
ISBN 0805841814, 9780805841817
 
One textbook for students that exemplifies metacognition in grammar instruction and has worked wonderfully for my students (Latino and Arabic, low prior education levels) is The Grammar Review Book, published by ProLingua.
Lee Sledd 
ESL Instructor
Madison Family Literacy
a partnership of Tacoma Community College and Tacoma Public Schools
253-571-1887

________________________________
From: Steinbacher Mikal
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 10:26 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 3969] Re: past progressive


I usually teach level 4 and up .. low intermediate to high advanced, so the students have a lot of the basics already.     I also have students write a short paragraph at the beginning of the quarter so I have an idea of their writing skill problem areas.   I usually do a review of articles, verb tenses, subject/verb agreement and complete sentences at the beginning of the quarter. So I correct for all of those.  
 
Depending on the skill levels your students display in their writing, I'd have them track those you teach.  And as the quarter progresses, add the grammar and structures you have taught and practiced and have them track those too.
 
 
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College

________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Martin Senger
Sent: Tue 3/3/2009 6:33 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3969] Re: past progressive


Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness)
 
Great work, Mikal. I do have questions as to how you apply this in the classroom? When I work with my students’ writing, I focus on one type of mistake at a time, so my student can focus on one aspect of grammar or vocab or whatever.
 
Martin E. Senger
Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie, Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL Special Interest Group
Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)
 
From:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 8:47 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3967] Re: past progressive
 
This list is similar to the one we use, and which we then graph and track, see attached. However, we find that the greatest benefit comes from seeing an incorrect phrase corrected, and then saving  a key word in that phrase, and the phrase itself, for future review. Even when people know the rules, they keep on making mistakes. The third person singular of the present tense is a notorious example.

We also find that Wrong Word is by far the most frequent mistake in writing and speaking, and usually the most damaging. Vocabulary usually trumps grammar.

I think that is difficult to concentrate  on more than one usage issue at a time. Since we have no way of knowing when a usage pattern will "click in", and since as Krashen says, this is often immune to the efforts of a teacher, a focus on lots of content is still the best expenditure of the learner's time, in my view. 

Steve Kaufmann
http://www.lingq.com/


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