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[EnglishLanguage 3714] Re: Post critical period oral L2 learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy
Steve Kaufmann
steve at thelinguist.comWed Jan 28 18:03:19 EST 2009
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I have learned Chinese, Japanese, Russian and Korean where the Roman
alphabet is of no help. I have not found closed captioning in the target
language to be helpful until you are very far along in the language. You
cannot read that fast in a strange script until you are advanced.
I recommend combining reading and listening as the main learning tools, and
treating movies strictly as entertainment, and as a means to connect with
the culture, which is of course very motivating.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Martha Bigelow <mbigelow at umn.edu> wrote:
> I'm checking with some folks about research, but I have some thoughts.
>
>
>
> I'm imagining how hard it would be for me to recognize letters, much less
> words, in Arabic. What about logographic script? I'd be hopeless. Give
> me a romance or Germanic language and I'd probably have fun picking out
> cognates and matching sounds to script.
>
>
>
> For someone who is not print literate in any language, the closed
> captioning can be pretty fast. They need a level of automaticity in reading
> in the L2. I think captions would probably be great for learners who have
> literacy in an alphabetic script already and are developing English reading
> skills. Perhaps with basic print concepts in place and some sight words
> memorized, students could begin with it.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:
> englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Amy Stotts
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:22 PM
> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
> *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 3702] Re: Post critical period oral L2
> learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy
>
>
>
> When I work with the lowest level English learners in our workplace and
> general English programs, I am frequently struck by how few English language
> situations they participate in. For many of our program participants, the
> classroom is the most English input and interaction that the learner
> receives. While I have created some interactive interviews and surveys to
> encourage greater use of English, this may add only an hour of additional
> English input and interaction in a week.
>
>
>
> Many of our English learners from basic to advanced levels have favorite TV
> shows. I have frequently encouraged adult students to turn on the closed
> captioning on their TVs to encourage using the words to enhance listening or
> the listening to enhance print familiarity. Does anyone know of studies that
> have examined the efficacy of this practice in first or second language
> literacy?
>
>
>
> Amy
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:
> englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Charlotte Van Londen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:31 AM
> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
> *Subject:* RE: [EnglishLanguage 3676] Re: Post critical period oral L2
> learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy
>
>
>
> I am enjoying the academic discussion on L2 acquisition for adults with low
> L1 literacy. These students have to overcome a double obstacle. If I may I
> would like to add a very practicle component to the discussion.
>
> In a lot of adult esl programs we find teachers with a limited background
> in TESOL dealing with a group of students with a mix of literate levels.Can
> we come up with some practical tips for these teachers that will help
> them serve the needs of the low literate students.How they can adjust
> activities to make them suitable for both groups.
>
> One idea would be to have the literate group write simple directions to
> teach the illiterate group through Total Physical Response. For example "Sit
> Down" "Stand Up" etc.
>
>
>
> Charlotte van Londen
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Elaine Tarone
> *Sent:* Wed 1/28/2009 11:15 AM
> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
> *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 3676] Re: Post critical period oral L2
> learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy
>
>
>
> I'm just urging caution: There is undoubtedly lots of research on how the
> brain learns, but almost all of it, (except for studies like Reis and
> Castro-Caldas, Read et al, etc) is research on the brains of literate
> people.
>
>
>
> There are brain imaging studies showing that literate and illiterate brain
> images are different during oral pseudoword repetition tasks, where
> individuals can't process words semantically but have to process them in
> terms of linguistic form. (One such is Castro-Caldas et al (1998) Brain
> 121, 1053-1063.)
>
>
>
> These results are consistent with what teachers tell us they see in the
> classroom with regard to the difficulties typically experienced by adults
> who aren't alphabetically literate in 'focus on form' type activities.
> There are cognitive reasons why literacy affects certain kinds of oral
> language processing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:
>
>
>
> I am not talking about generalizations about how the brain learns. I ma
> referring to the work of Manfred Spitzer who describes where in the brain
> this leaning takes place and how.
>
> Reading is learned in a different area of the brain from the spoken
> language, by the way. In any case there is a lot of research on how the
> brain learns, and that research should be applied to teaching. We should
> recognize that learning takes place in the brain, not in the classroom, as
> Spitzer says. Read Spitzer's book on learning and the brain when it comes
> out in English.
>
> Steve Kaufmann
> www.lingq.com
>
> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Elaine Tarone <etarone at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> There is research demonstrating significant differences in cognitive
> processing between matched groups of literate and illiterate adults. I can
> send copies of these studies to anyone who is interested.
>
>
>
> These studies suggest that we need to be very cautious in making
> generalizations about the way illiterate adults' brains process and acquire
> second languages.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, it is very important to do what we are doing in this
> discussion -- share information on what works in classrooms, and what
> doesn't.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2009, at 8:46 PM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:
>
>
>
> I believe that our brain will, with enough exposure to content that is
> relevant and interesting, start to sort out some rules relating to word
> order, and other aspects of the structure of the new language, with or
> without explicit grammar explanations and drills. Some degree of grammar
> review, corrections etc, are helpful but not necessary, and not as important
> as the massive input. Most learners attending ESL language class do not get
> enough input of English.
>
> Some aspects of a new language may never stick. In English, articles are
> difficult for people form languages without articles. The spoken difference
> between "he" and "she" is difficult for well educated Chinese people, even
> after ten or more years of grammar study, and even though the concept is not
> difficult and universally understood. It just does not exist in Chinese, so
> it is hard to develop the natural ability to say "she" and "he" when
> required.
>
> >From my reading and observation, the brain sorts these things out on its
> own schedule, and slowly. Explanations and drills are relatively
> ineffective, but can help a little. Only lots of input will enable the brain
> to gradually get better, as long as there is a will, and the input
> continues. That has been my experience in learning Russian over the last 2
> years, and that has been the experience of many others who are prepared to
> put in the time, listening and reading, according to what they have told me.
>
> Obviously the non-reader is at a disadvantage. However, intensive listening
> on an iPod to content of interest could go a long way. However, I admit I
> have no experience with non-literate learners.
>
> Steve Kaufmann
> www.lingq.com
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Elaine Tarone <etarone at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> It is possible that formal teaching imposes accuracy standards that are
> very difficult to attain unless the learner is alphabetically literate. I
> think this is particularly true of grammatical features that do not
> dramatically change the semantics, like word order in questions and final
> morphemes that are really redundant in context. Maybe teachers can find
> other ways to communicate those standards (like use of cuisinaire rods to
> show word order shifts) to make the learner aware of the difference between
> their production and the accurate target.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:
>
>
>
> Is it possible that formal teaching imposes accuracy standards on learners
> that are either not relevant to their own language goals, or applied too
> soon in their language development? We all know fluent speakers of English
> and other languages who make many mistakes.
>
> Steve Kaufmann
> www.lingq.com
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Martha Bigelow <mbigelow at umn.edu> wrote:
>
> Anne,
>
> This is fascinating. Would you happen to have a publication or citation
> you could share with the list yet? I'm sure many would be very interested
> to read more, even if it is a handout. I'm often overwhelmed by the English
> language fluency and pragmatic skills of the teens I've worked with. But
> sometimes the transcriptions show surprises! They are not as accurate as
> they seem.
>
> Martha
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
> Adult English Language Learners mailing list
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> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
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