I have a workplace ed. class of people from five different countries and at least three different levels of education. I think only 2 people have graduated high school.  I noticed that the least literate students have picked up quite a bit of English from listening only.  The written word often gets in the way for them. And when we do minimal pairs activities, they are the ones who distinguish the sounds the best.  That said, they are also the ones who want to do more reading in class as this is the area they want to improve. I sense that without improving their literacy, they learn a certain amount of English, then hit a wall.

My higher level learners enjoy the challenge of written exercises,and they want to know some of the grammar. On a whim, I diagrammed a sentence in class one night--the whole class was fascinated and requested that I do some more! The higher level learners are very proud of the skills they have, and they want to use them.

I also teach at another school.  These students are from around the world, and most of them are highly educated and well off.  They pick up concepts much faster. I know some of that has to do with their level of education, but it also has to do with the fact that they are not working two jobs and supporting families. They have extra time to study.  

Many of our ESL students don't have the extra time to study. My workplace ed class has a high degree of interest in learning--they just don't have the luxury of time to do lots of work outside the classroom.   

Pam Haran
harangod at comcast.net 


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Kaufmann 
  To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List 
  Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 3:19 PM
  Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3570] Re: Working withlearners with limitedliteracy - posted for Martha Bigelow


  It has not been my experience that the length of formal education is an important indicator of language learning success. Foreign professional athletes in North America generally learn to communicate in English better than college professors of the same origin. The college educated person may understand abstract grammar explanations, but that does not necessarily translate into a better ability to communicate. I also doubt if self-esteem has much to do with it.

  I have met many people of limited education in foreign countries who have learned English and other languages in order to interact with tourists. In my experience, it is the level of interest in the language, that matters the most. That is why providing content of interest to listen to and read, rather than grammar drills, tends to produce results.

  Steve Kaufmann
  www.lingq.com


  On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Kasun, Meghan <meghank at forbesroad.com> wrote:

    "What are some main differences you've noticed among your students with limited formal schooling?  How do you explain these differences and what do you do to accommodate the differences you've noted?"



    I've taught English as a Second Language for about two and a half years.  For the first two years, I was teaching at a young women's vocational school in a small village in Indonesia. I taught two different levels of English classes, which were beginner and intermediate.  The difference was evident between those who had access to quality formal education and those who didn't.  Those who finished high school were able to quickly grasp the new concepts that I was presenting. They already had somewhat of a background in English.  They were able to recite the ABC's, numbers, and introductory phrases.  They were more willing to engage in English conversation with me and had a greater interest in learning English.  These students tended to come from the city, where the schools were of better quality.

    The other group of students were from an isolated village in the mountains and most had not graduated from high school.  Although these ladies had English instruction at some point in their lives, they had to start all over at square one again.  We had to study intensively the most basic phrases that the other group knew like the back of their hand.  After working on a concept for over a week, I would have to continue to drill them just so they could remember it.  I noticed that there were often mistakes in the spelling and grammar of their own language, which made it much more difficult to learn English.  

    However, I truly believe that it was not only the lack of formal education that hindered their progress, but it was also the lack of self esteem in regards to education.  Somewhere along the way, something happened that put their education to a halt.  From that point on, education became a privilege that they could no longer enjoy.  Some of them felt that they were stupid or unable to learn.  There was also a stereotype associated with those who weren't able to finish high school.  Too often, it was the poor who weren't able to finish high school because you had to pay.  Elementary school and junior high school were free, so the dropout rate increased dramatically in high school.  Thus, these students really struggled learning English due to their lack of formal education and the stereotypes that went with it.

    I came back to the United States in August.  Since then, I have been teaching an ESL class of eight beginner level students.  I have noticed similar trends in my class here.   There were two students who started at the same time and around the same level.  They could barely speak anything.  One has a Masters degree in agricultural engineering, and the other graduated high school.  Although they both have a high school diploma, I can see a great difference in the way that the students learn.  For the one with the Masters, I am able to give her exercises in grammar, sentence structure, and vocabulary.  She completes them with a great amount of success.  However, I noticed that the one who graduated high school needs a lot more reinforcement.  Working on exercises using the "formulas" to create an English sentence doesn't work for her.  She needs a little less formal approach to learning with a focus on speaking.  Although this could be merely a difference in learning styles, I found that this was an interesting trend.  It would make sense that the Masters degree student would gravitate to formal grammar exercises based on her experiences in university.  Whereas, it is reasonable to assume that the student who graduated high school would feel better about working under less formal circumstances.

    From my experiences, I agree that there is a great difference in the way that students learn based on their previous educational opportunities.

    From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Miriam Burt
    Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:17 AM


    To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3562] Working withlearners with limited literacy - posted for Martha Bigelow



    I'm posting the following on behalf of Martha Bigelow, guest facilitator for this week's discussion on working with adult English language learners with limited literacy. 



    Best, Miriam

    Miriam Burt, moderator

    Adult English Language Learners discussionlist

    mburt at cal.org

    *****************************************



    Hello, everyone, and welcome to the discussion on teaching English to adults with limited formal school and low levels of print literacy.



    I'm passionate about learning how to teach English to adolescents and adults with limited formal schooling and low levels of print literacy.  I've been deeply involved in the Somali community in Minnesota and have done research on issues related literacy and language learning as well as research on the social dimensions of the education of newcomers with limited formal schooling.  I'm looking forward to a lively discussion and sharing of ideas!

    Choose any question below to begin the discussion, or just pose your own comment or question!



      a..   What are some main differences you've noticed among your students with limited formal schooling?  How do you explain these differences and what do you do to accommodate the differences you've noted? 
      b.. What are some of the policies or programs at school or in your state that need to be changed to better educate adolescent and adult learners with limited formal schooling?  I welcome any stories about how  policies/programs have been be changed to benefit students with limited formal schooling. 
      a..  What do teachers need to know and be able to do in order to be effective in teaching adolescents or adults with limited formal schooling?  What do you wish you had learned as a pre-service teacher? 
      a.. What resources can you share that have been helpful in teaching basic literacy skills to adolescents or adult? 
      a..   What ways have you connected your classroom activities to the needs your students have outside the classroom?  Do you have any special ways for finding out what your students' goals are or why they wish to become literate in English? 
      a..   What other issues you would like to discuss related to this topic?.  
       Looking forward to hearing from you, 

      Best,



      Martha Bigelow

      Associate Professor, University of Minnesota  

      mbigelow at umn.edu


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

      From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Miriam Burt
      Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:55 AM
      To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
      Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3557] Discussion next week on working withlearners with limited literacy

      Hello, everyone.



      I'm happy to announce that next week, January26-30, this electronic discussion list for those who work with adult English language learners will have a focused discussion on the topic of 

      working with adult English language learners who have limited literacy and preferences for learning through the oral mode. This topic was selected because of suggestions made by list participants this past fall. 



      The guest facilitator is Martha Bigelow.  Dr Bigelow teaches in the Second Languages and Cultures Program in the Department of Curriculum and Instruction at the University of Minnesota. She has studied how English language learners (ages 16-28) with low print literacy make use of oral feedback, and has examined the strengths and challenges that older students with limited formal schooling and low literacy bring to oral language development in English. She has also studied the Somali and English literacy skills of young Somali women (ages 17-21) who are newcomers to the United States and have had limited formal schooling.  



      In preparation:

      If you would like to do a little pre-reading before the discussion, you can read a brief article on Dr. Bigelow's work with Somali women; it's on a Web page of the University of Minnesota at  



       http://cehd.umn.edu/Pubs/Research/Bigelow/default.html.  





      You can also read a brief synthesis of recent research and promising practices for working with adult English language learners; it's on from the CAELA Network at



       http://www.cal.org/caelanetwork/pd_resources/literacy.html





      For more information, including a bio of Dr. Bigelow, see the full announcement at 

      http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/englishlanguage//09programs.html



      To sign up 

      If you have colleagues who may be interested in joining the list for this discussion, please forward this to them and invite them to join!   Here's the link to join the discussion list:  http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage 





      Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you during this discussions – and throughout 2009, of course!



      Miriam

      ***********

      Miriam Burt, 

      Facilitator, electronic discussion list for those working with adult English language learners

      mburt at cal.org




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