The discussion on digital reading the use of language (English, local, vernacular) has been quite fascinating and in a pitiful attempt to justify my not finishing real work that is due and people are paying me for, I thought I'd write a note to Steve (which would have been much more accurate and fluent had I had the benefit of those two glasses of wine he mentioned on his video) -

Sehr geehrter Herr Kaufman - Lieber Steve

A ce moment, j'ecoute votre video sur "les 10 languages que je parle"  (que vous parlez, pas moi-)

Ich muss shon sagen das ist alles sehr imponierent, besonders weil es klar ist dass Sie frei sprechen und der Text nicht gelesen wird oder auswendig gelernt ist - and anyone who reads Rollo May in German has my admiration - though I wonder why  (I didn't misunderstand and it was Karl May, was it?)

I particularly liked the part where you use a Russian phrase to make a point in Spanish. Bien hecho indeed -  (and one of these days I will actually learn how to use accents and upside down exclamation marks in multilingual e-mails

Xie, xie ni

Ciao

Heide

Heide Spruck Wrigley
Mesilla, NM

P.S.  However, I do feel compelled to point out that having had grammar lessons on the "use of of hypotheticals in English" made it easier to create sentences like 'had I had .... "  when I was still relatively new to English - although I am not arguing that natural curiosity about languages and a delight in running across uncommon structures plus multiple exposures to these phrases (through audio books or text) would not have gotten me there eventually

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:06 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3446] Re: oral vs reading traditions

The position of English as lingua franca is no more secure than the position of Greek in the Helenic Middle East, Sogdian  Central Asia/China during the Tang Dynasty , nor the role of French in Europe for two centuries prior to the present dominance of English. The decline of the economic weight of the Anglo-Saxon world will lead to more multilingualism. Learn regional languages. If anyone is interested they can see my video on this subjec<http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=kT0MvbsOIz4&feature=channel_page>t and one where I speak in 10 languages<http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=E0JhF2eJZDs&feature=related> at youtube.

The IPA has been around since 1886, and just like other attempts to impose an artificial language or writing system or notational system, including Esperanto and "truespel" etc. these things are irrelevant to most people. A language is a natural pheonomeon and grows in influence in proportion to the prestige of its culture. English is in decline. We are headed to a lingustically multi-polar world, and we will deal with the natural writing sytems that these languages have evolved naturally.

Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com<http://www.lingq.com>


On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com<mailto:truespel at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Mike,

Yes, we need new technology/methods for today's world.  Regarding English literacy there is one GIGANTIC issue not being addressed.  English is the lingua franca of the world.  It's our language.  One thing we desperately need is a phonetic notation based on English, suitable for native English users, suitable for computers, and suitable for teaching children phonemic awareness (the key attribute of good readers - Stanovich 2000)

HISTORY - The Initial International Phonetic Association (IPA) notation of 1886 was always intended to teach language learners, but was never English friendly and evolved into a notation that covers all language sounds.  It uses very strange symbols and is not computer friendly.  In 1987, a few European countries created a computer friendly version of the IPA notation called SAMPA (Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet).  SAMPA is not suitable for English not suitable for children, nor is it email or spreadsheet friendly as it should be.

Recognizing this problem, recent dictionaries have evolved various phonetic notations; unfortunately, not keyboard or computer friendly.  The media and government use a work-around notation that looks like this: no-TAY-shin.  These approaches are useful but not standardized.  They don't even have names.

There is only one phonetic notation that satisfies all criteria.  It's truespel.  Like SAMPA, truespel was established in 1987.  It's English-based, using just the letters of the alphabet and most common English forms to spell phonemes.  It's email and spreadsheet friendly, capitalization friendly, punctuation friendly, and simple enough to learn in 15 minutes for adult teachers.  And truespel is free.

The English language is rewritten in truespel phonetics (American accent).  The free converter is present at truespel.com<http://truespel.com>.  An URL converter is there as well which can change any internet site into phonetics.  It's mature and everywhere.

Truespel can follow IBM's "Writing to Read" example for teaching children to write with "phonemic awareness".  At the same time it can integrate dictionary phonetics and translation guide phonetics as well.  A version of the VOA beginner's dictionary is available with a truespel phonetic guide where the VOA provided no guide at all. (See the truespel books 1 to 4)

BOTTOM LINE - IBM's "Writing to Read" showed the way.  It was tested by ETS for 6,000 K-1 kids in the 80"s and showed how to achieve early improvement.  But it was way ahead of its time; when the internet was not available, and computers were expensive.  Unfortunately, it used some special symbols.  Truespel does not, yet it would help "phonemic awareness" and word decoding in the same way IBM did.  Also accent reduction and remedial reading.  I'd be glad to support any efforts to evaluate truespel for any such applications.

Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
Learn truespel in 15 minutes at http://tinypaste.com/764f4








________________________________

From: mtate at sbctc.edu<mailto:mtate at sbctc.edu>
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:50:57 -0800
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3406] Re: oral vs reading traditions



Why do we expect that the technology around reading will endure when no other technology has?



I have a Chandler Price letterpress sitting in my garage that I used to print chapbooks and broadsides on, but it's rare I bump into someone who loves "real" printing.   Of course, the Chandler Price is incredibly modern next to a lithography stone.



I'm not yet able to give up on film photography, but almost.  I came so close to buying a digital Nikon.



I noticed  that the digital picture frames were flying off the shelves, so I think you'll find that they will come to replace the old-fashioned ones which will become curiosities, and so it will be with the books at the bookstore.  We'll be able to find them for a while, but increasingly they will be rarer, and at some point there won't be any new titles coming out.



One of my co-worker's elderly father has a huge 8-track tape library, and she says that he insists that it is coming back into fashion.



I have a  1967 Ford 2 Stakeside truck, and I'm looking for a 1939 Ford 9N tractor.



I think there would be something wrong with us if we didn't love old things.  But, love them though we might, there's always something new to take their place.



Michael Tate







From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov>] On Behalf Of Sandra (Sandy) Jensen
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3403] Re: oral vs reading traditions



Michael, What about reading fiction for pleasure?  The sheer volume of fiction for sale at Barnes and Noble tells me that I am not the only one who likes to curl up with a good book.  I do not want my computer to read to me.  I want to control the speed at which I take in the ideas---rereading a particularly amusing section, skimming a boring one.  Do you think visual learners like me will become extinct?  Maybe, but I think it will take multiple generations.



Sandy Jensen



From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov>] On Behalf Of Michael Tate
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:25 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3401] Re: oral vs reading traditions



Steve,



I think Star Trek had it right when Captain Kirk would interact with the computer orally.  In more recent Star Treks, the book has re-appeared in a digital format, but it is only used by those who have an antiquarian interest in that technology.  We now possess the software to make the Star Trek vision a reality.



Since we are born to do oral/aural communication, I doubt we will stick with reading except for limited applications like making lists, etc.  People will go with what's easiest.  I noticed over the holidays that someone has a little gizmo that will replace a grocery list.



 When you are paying your bills, do you do the sums in your head or on paper?  If you are like most people, you track that on a calculator.  Some of us actually pay bills on line, so the computer keeps track of that, and will even give you a yearly report if you ask for it.



Many computers now come with a screen reader, but if they don't,  you can get one  very cheaply.  Software is also available that will let you interface with your computer by giving oral commands and directions.   You can dictate emails, memos, reports, term papers, etc.  that can be printed or emailed.  If you have a copy of Huckleberry Finn, you can scan it in to your computer and have the computer read it to you.



Computers also come with cameras, so you can do video-calls or meetings.



I don't agree that academic and professional information is not on the web.  Most content is now on the web.  As more higher education entities join Open Source agreements, there will be less and less that is not  on the web.



And, everything we do on a computer, we will soon be able to do on cell phones, so the argument that this technology is out of reach for low-income people isn't true.   I can ask my cell phone  to dial my brother's phone number, and it does it.



As the demand for oral/aural software grows, ways to scan and to highlight audiofiles will be refined.  We'll be able to sort key statements and phrases.    Speed listening can be developed in much the same way speed reading is.  We know from the long histories that aboriginal people are able to do remember, that neither capacity or accuracy will be a problem when speaking and listening replace reading and writing.



So, we need to prepare our students for life in speaking and listening world.  I was at Microsoft's School of the Future conference in Seattle last month, and one of the presenters said that the changes I've been talking about will happen  subliminally, and if we, by chance do sense something happen, it will seem seductive.



Michael Tate



From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov>] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:25 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3397] Re: oral vs reading traditions



It is not a matter of audio books over print books. The reality is that most of the information we need to access in academic and professional situations is not available in audio form, and we are often required to provide information in written form. Moreover, most of us can read much faster than we listen. We can scan, we can easily focus on what is important. Reading and writing are phenomenal inventions, that dwarf the invention of the computer and digital sound files, in terms of their impact on human development.

I have not heard a valid argument for saying that good literacy skills are not important.





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