U R still putting yr instructors in a "box".  I wouldn't dare say  a partcular level of teacher is more capable of teaching adults than another.  The teacher,  not the level of teacher sets the tone for the classroom.  This is the problem I worry about.  With many people always looking for assessments, credentialing and other external affirmations that do not always translate to skillful instruction in the classroom itself.  Hire the person not the paper.

--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mangum, Laurie (ACE) <Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu> wrote:

From: Mangum, Laurie (ACE) <Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3419] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:49 AM








Glenda
It may be a combination of the curriculum content for Family Literacy, the common interests that all of our students come to class with (parents of young children) and the quality of training in our K-12 ESOL department.  I have found our adult education teachers prefer to work with specific levels and cover specific material.   The K-12 ESOL teachers are better equipped to differentiate instruction to meet the needs in our multi-level classes.  My experience could be solely based on the training provided to the two different teacher groups in our programs but I have found it easier to work with highly skilled K-6 and train them on adult education topics.   I also find the K-12 teachers appreciate the freedom in instruction that the evening program provides and use this as a vehicle to tap into their creative teaching approaches.
 
Laurie
 



From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Glenda Lynn Rose
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 9:57 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3413] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL
 





"Since my program is strictly for parents with young children and the topics pertain to school related vocabulary and events I prefer to hire K-12 ESOL.  At the same time I have had a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time adjusting their teaching style to a room full of adults."

 

I find it strange that you would prefer to hire people who are trained in pedgagogy, not andragogy, to teach adults.  I understand the relationship between the two programs, but can you tell me what in your experience causes you to lean that way?  Were the adult ESOL teachers (that apprently didn't do well in your program) actually trained in applied linguistics or adult education?  It has been my experience that many K-6 teachers have difficulty making the transition to adult education without a great deal of additional training and support.

 


Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD

Instuctor, 

Austin Learning Academy

841-4777
 


--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mangum, Laurie (ACE) <Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu> wrote:
From: Mangum, Laurie (ACE) <Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3412] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" < englishlanguage at nifl.gov >
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:38 AM


Martin
 
I work closely with the K-12 ESOL office but fall under the Adult ESOL umbrella.  My program is Family Literacy which is free to parents of elementary school parents and funded by the K-12 Office using Title III funds.  My program has been the main link between the two offices for a while.  As budgets decrease in our system we have had more meetings between the two groups to see how we can work together.  Typically advertising the adult classes at parent events has been the main link between the two organizations.  I have hired both K-12 ESOL teachers and Adult ESOL teachers in my program and do see a difference in their teaching.  Since my program is strictly for parents with young children and the topics pertain to school related vocabulary and events I prefer to hire K-12 ESOL.  At the same time I have had a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time adjusting their teaching style to a room full of adults.
 
Laurie Mangum
Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL
Fairfax County Public Schools
Adult & Community Education
Plum Center for Lifelong Learning
6815 Edsall Rd. 
Springfield , VA 22151
 
 




From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Senger
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:02 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3411] Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
 
Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness)
 
In your area, is there any/much cooperation between the Adult ESL field (teachers/administrators/professional development/research) and K-12?
 
I work with several adult ESL teacher networks, but have very, very limited contact with the K-12 crowd. Is that the norm, or are we “special?” I have just talked with the PA Dept of Ed/K-12 ESL section, and they said we could use their professional development (when pertinent). I just think it’s funny that we have people doing basically the same thing (ESL), but in completely different circles. Is there a big enough difference between adult ed and K-12 to warrant two individual fields? What say you?
 

Martin E. Senger
Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie, Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL Special Interest Group
Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)
 


From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Brigitte Marshall
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:34 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3410] Re: FW: Re: managingprogramsforadultEnglishlearners
 
So many of us who have pursued management of ESL Programs as a next step in our journey as ESL professionals are very committed to keeping the direct and real connection with the classroom. Several posters to this list discussion have talked about the value of remaining engaged at the classroom level because of their love of teaching and/or their desire to remain connected to students. I know that for a couple of years I struggled to juggle both, being an administrator and a classroom teacher, and in the end I discovered a way to feed my need to teach and stay connected more directly to students at the same time in a way that I had not anticipated. My motivation has always emanated from a commitment to refugee and immigrant students, but when I was asked to teach in an adult credentialing programming, I discovered a whole new way of contributing something that I thought would ultimately be of benefit to refugees and immigrants. Working with teachers as
 they are learning their craft can be wonderfully rewarding and provided me with the opportunity to engage with teachers in a way that was not evaluative or supervisory – which raises another question I have been wondering about….
 
When I was going through the administrative credentialing program, the professor who was leading the section on supervision and evaluation made a couple of very strong recommendations; the first was that administrators and program managers should not try to be instructional experts and should not try to critique the teachers they were supervising and observing from a place of expertise. The second was that as the supervisor and/or evaluator, an administrator or program manager is very ill positioned to be a coach, or the person identified to help and support a teacher because the supervisory dynamic will get in the way. 
What do others think about these recommendations? 
Can ESL Program Managers continue over time to be experts on instructional practice, or should they acknowledge that being out of the classroom either entirely or more than they are in it, reduces their ability to speak from a platform of expertise? And if an ESL Program Manager does not speak from a platform of instructional and specific ESL expertise, how do they effectively manage and supervise?
Do you agree that administrators and program managers are not the best people to be coaches for teachers who need support to develop their craft? If not the Program manager, then who?
 

Brigitte Marshall, Director
Oakland Adult and Career Education
McClymonds Education Complex
2607 Myrtle Street, Oakland , CA 94607
 
Tel: (510) 879 3037
Fax: (510) 452 2077 
 
Expect Success. Every student. Every classroom. Every day.




From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Diaz, Beatriz B.
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:05 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing programsforadultEnglishlearners
 


As the "leader" of a very large Adult ESOL program,  I wear many hats but more and more I find it difficult to get away from my "administrator crown", which is the one I like the least.  I strongly believe that programs improve and better service students if leaders are in the  class, in the centers and in the community facilating English literacy opportunities and expanding our learning communities. Unfortunately, many hours of my day are spent processing the right form, approving purchase orders and attending meetings.  Is this typical of others in similar positions?  How have other achieved a balance short of putting in 20 hours of work per day?

 



From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Betsy Wong
Sent: Tue 1/13/2009 10:50 AM
To: 'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing programsforadultEnglishlearners


In keeping with the spirit of a chain dialogue, I wanted to highlight
something that Laurie said:

"What I find more important is recognizing really good teaching methods and
resources available and providing opportunities to share those in your
program."

I think that this is a really important part of a program manager's role,
and it gets back to the points that have been made about striving to be a
visionary and achieving balance.

It also points to a solution to a dilemma that many of us face: In the face
of shrunken resources, what can we offer teachers when salary increases or
full-time positions are simply not on the table?

I think that professional development opportunities can be something to help
"sell" a program to a prospective teacher and help motivate (and retain)
current teachers. This can be through formal in-service meetings responding
to teachers' stated needs or informal discussions or focus groups that allow
teachers to share ideas and give input on program decisions.  

What do the rest of you think? Suggestions?

Betsy Lindeman Wong
Lead ESL Teacher
Alexandria Adult and Community Education

-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:18 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3342] FW: Re: managing programs
foradultEnglishlearners

I wanted to respond to Brigitte's thought

"I think it would be very interesting to explore this last point a
little
bit more. We have already asked if we think that ESOL Program Managers
should ideally have ESOL classroom experience - but what do we think
about the need for an effective ESOL Program Manager to have been a
good, or really good teacher? Is this a necessary pre-requisite? And is
an effective ESOL Program manager's effectiveness derived from their
ongoing expertise as a classroom instructor? Is it really possible for
an ESOL Program Manager to remain current and a model of good
instructional practice? If they don't, could they still be able to
manage and supervise other ESL instructors effectively?"


My name is Laurie Mangum, I manage the Family Literacy program under
Adult ESOL for Fairfax County Public Schools.  I had taught a
non-intensive ESOL class (first as a volunteer and then paid) before
taking on the responsibility to coordinate this program but I always
think of my professional background as a project manager.  I am often
frustrated by the idea in Education that good teachers make good
administrators.  I don't necessarily think being a really good teacher
is a pre-requisite to running a really good program.  What I find more
important is recognizing really good teaching methods and resources
available and providing opportunities to share those in your program.  I
see part of my job to be a consulting role and look for best practices
to share with my staff.  Managing the many facets of a program and being
adept at changing strategies when something isn't working are also
instrumental to being successful in the role.  Or as some people have
described my job: having the ability to juggle while herding cats. 



Laurie Mangum
Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL
Fairfax County Public Schools
Adult & Community Education
Plum Center for Lifelong Learning
6815 Edsall Rd.
Springfield , VA 22151

Phone:  703-658-2760

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Email delivered to bdiaz at dadeschools.net----------------------------------------------------National Institute for LiteracyAdult English Language Learners mailing listEnglishLanguage at nifl.govTo unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go tohttp://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguageEmail delivered to glyndalin at yahoo.com
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