I would love to see it.  I think this is such a great way for students
to learn!
 
Amy (Allen) Metcalfe 
Director of Integrated 
Basic Education Skills Training (IBEST) 
Pierce College District 
9401 Farwest Dr. SW 
Lakewood, WA 98498 
(253) 964-6447 
ametcalfe at pierce.ctc.edu 
 
 
________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steinbacher Mikal
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:53 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 3962] Re: past progressive
 
I've developed a tracking form and a coordinating editing symbol sheet
if you'd like it.
 
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College
 
________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of
robinschwarz1 at aol.com
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 8:51 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3962] Re: past progressive
Mikal--this is a very interesting and clearly useful technique--(having
students track their "favorite" mistakes)-- I will suggest this to
teachers I work with-- Great idea!  Robin Lovrien Schwarz
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Steinbacher Mikal <Mikal.Steinbacher at lwtc.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 9:10 am
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3961] Re: past progressive
I use my online students' writing to reinforce the grammar they've
studied and 




practiced with grammar exercises.




I spend a lot of time when correcting their writing, giving them a
explanation 




of each correction with the "grammar and structure rule".  This real
time 




practice coupled with the lessons they've completed for the class, seems
to help 




cement the "rules". I also encourage them to track the type of writing
errors 




they make and then when they are editing their work, to look for their
'favorite 




mistakes".  Those who do that traditionally improve more than those who
don't.  




I find that rules without real life use, don't stick very long.  Like me
with 




computer skills, ESL learners need to be taught and then practice,
practice, 




practice to master the language.




 




 




Mikal Steinbacher




Instructor, ABE/ESL/English




Lake Washington Technical College









________________________________









From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Glenda Lynn Rose




Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 3:16 PM




To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List




Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3959] Re: past progressive














I concur, Robin.  I have had students tell me their previous English
teachers 




told them some very interesting rules.  I should have been collecting
them!




 




Because I use a bilingual approach, I talk about grammar with my
students.  I 




explain that although the terms we use are probably never going to be
needed 




outside of the classroom (could I have one noun with an adjective of
origin and 




a side of prepositional phrases), because we use them inside the
classroom from 




time to time to talk about the language, we need to have the same
understanding.  




I also make sure they know I do not expect them to remember these terms
even in 




Spanish from their primary days, so if I fail to explain what the term
means and 




they are unsure, to please ask me.   




 




Good examples are priceless, which is why I like the Azar series...lots
of 




examples there.




 




One of my high advanced students and I were talking about explicit
grammar 




practice/instruction yesterday.  Between the two of us, we came to the 




conclusion that grammar practice is like the drills during soccer 




practice....useful for learning the skills for the game, but in no way
as 




exciting as the game itself (communicating) or in any way capable of
replacing 




experience gained through playing in live games.









Grace and Peace!




Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD









Instructor, 




Austin Learning Academy




841-4777




 














--- On Fri, 2/27/09, robinschwarz1 at aol.com <robinschwarz1 at aol.com>
wrote:














    From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com <robinschwarz1 at aol.com>




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3958] Re: past progressive




    To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov




    Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:19 PM




    




    




    NIcely and succinctly put, Linda.  The past continuous is easily
over used 




by students as a regular past tense, so at some point clarification of
its use 




is necessary.  It is unique, in my experience in demanding a clear time
location 




in the past, which is why students end up using it incorrectly.  They
tend to 




say,  Yesterday, I was taking a shower.    As someone, (was it Martin)
pointed 




out, without the context of knowing why the shower was intererrupted or
a more 




specific time or what else was happening, native speakers would not use
it.   




That we were not, as native speakers, taught the parameters of a tense
is not 




unusual since we have learned it through exposure in reading and in
speech.   




That is what grammar learning in a new language is all about-- being
conscious 




of grammar that otherwise is unconscious.   




    




    Don't get me wrong, though.   I am not a big advocate of huge
amounts of 




direct instruction in grammar for ESOL learners. In fact, I think
grammar 




instruction often gets in the way of teaching and learning for many
students, 




especially those with low education levels who do not have comparable
knowledge 




in first language to make sense of grammar instruction.   However, as
Linda so 




nicely points out, some learners want it very much, whether or not it
improves 




other skills in English, and some learners MUST have it to pass English
classes 




or take the TOEFL skillfully, to say nothing of making sense of
professors' 




feedback on their writing assignments!  




    




    Also, doing what I do--focusing on what causes ESOL learners to
struggle-- I 




often see that learners have been completely confused by incompetent
instruction 




in grammar by teachers who, as someone pointed out, were just giving
opinions on 




it or teaching what they thought it was.  So here is a plea:  If you
teach 




grammar or are called on to explain it by a curious or eager student,
grab for a 




really good grammar book ( such as Azar) to give your answer if you do
not know 




grammar really well.   




    




    Robin Lovrien Schwarz 




    














    -----Original Message-----




    From: selover200 at comcast.net




    To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>




    Sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 1:46 pm




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3957] Re: past progressive




    




    




    Hello to all- 









    Regarding grammar terms and rules-









    I do tell students what the grammar terms are and the names of the
verb 




tenses are so that later, when I want to explain some rules or refer to
sentence 




structure, they will know the vocabulary of grammar. 




    < br class="webkit-block-placeholder">




     Since I have beginners, I give them examples rather than rules,
with a 




brief description of the sentence structure, because I am giving them a
pattern 




to follow. That is all that they are ready to absorb at this stage. I
also 




encourage them to use the reference pages with the verb tables when they
have 




questions of usage. 









    However, a more advanced student, or one who has studied English in
formal 




classes in their own country, will ask you for the rules. An advanced
student, 




especially someone who has to do a lot of writing for college or
business, will 




find grammar rules very useful. We just need to be sure that the rules
have good 




examples of the usage in context. 









    Peace, 




    Linda Selover









    ----- Original Message -----




    From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org>




    To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" 




<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>




    Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:20:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
Pacific




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3952] Re: past progressive




    




    




    Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness)




     




    You've hi t the nail on the head, Steve. Nobody in their right mind
utilizes 




grammatical rules at the same time they are communicating. Only when we
notice a 




problem will we access our grammatical "brain" to analyze the message.




     




    However, I believe that we as native speakers have that "reference
library" 




in our brain, and refer to it automatically to decode a message. Our
students do 




not have that luxury.  We must provide them with the opportunity to
develop 




their own reference library. An example of this might be: "I will meet
you at." 




You know, having studied English, possibly from birth, that we need more





information to complete the idea. We expect either a time or a place to
follow. 




What I try to do is to get my students to explicitly answer the question
"When?" 




every time they use a verb, thus completing the "idea" of the verb.




     




    How do I do this? I feel by constantly and consistently linking the 




vocabulary with its concise grammatical idea while
reading/listening/speaking/writing, 




we can allow our students to "notice" the relationship on their own, 




intrinsically. It is only through contextual examples can they develop
this. For 




example, when my students use the present s imple, I ask them when is
the action 




happening. By repeating (by me and the students) the words "every day"
and 




making a circular motion with my hand, I reinforce the relationship
between the 




form (spelling/word order) and the grammatical meaning. I do this day
after day, 




month after month. If their idea wasn't something that happened every
day ("I go 




to doctor today.") then I would model the correct form and explain why
("I am 




going to the doctor today/I am going to go to the doctor today").




     




    One thing I do NOT do is memorization. I never stress the name of
the forms 




(although I do repeat them every time). I DO stress the usage: which
words 




(auxiliaries) go with which verb forms/spellings to create which
temporal ideas.




     




    Just my two-cents worth!




     




    Martin E. Senger




    Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,




    G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center




    Erie, Pa.




    Co-Director,




    ESL Special Interest Group




    Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)




     




    From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?>  




<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?> ?> ] On Behalf Of Steve
Kaufmann




    Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:24 AM




    To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3950] Re: past progressive




     




    As a language learner, I find it difficult to absorb explanations of
the 




"five ways that the subjunctive is used " or such like. I need to see
these 




patterns repeatedly in context, read them, hear them and ev entually try
using 




them. Gradually they start to become a part of my language.




    




    It is difficult to understand these explanations let alone remember
them. 




Yet, a familiarity with these rules does help me notice what is
happening in the 




language. So my question to Martin was, how does he use this list. How
much of 




this can be effectively explained? Can the learner absorb it? How is the





explanation spaced out over time? How does the learner reach the point
where he 




or she no longer needs to refer to this list. Kind of like Zhuangzi and
the 




parable of the fish-net. Once you have caught the fish you no longer
need the 




fish net.




    




    Steve Kaufmann




    www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/>  <http://www.lingq.com/> 




    On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:34 AM, <Sandees32605 at aol.com> wrote:




    In a message dated 2/26/2009 9:45:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, 




steve at thelinguist.com writes:









        As a native speaker I do not think about the ways in which the 




progressive is used. 




        =0 A 









    Again, may I suggest that teachers at least glance at a good grammar
text 




for non- learners and/or purchase at least one reputable reference for
their own 




use?




     




    Wouldn't that be a little more useful than just a rehash of personal
opinion 




and prejudices?  




     




    Just a thought.




     




    Best,




    Sue Sandeen




    ESOL Gainesville, Fla




    




    




    




    




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