I do not imagine that these wives of Japanese company  representatives are
immigrants. They are probably not planning to become American citizens.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 10:13 AM, <carolkubota at comcast.net> wrote:


> Ted,

>

> I am still not sure what you mean.  Most of my students are Japanese wives

> who have been transplanted here by Japanese companies who have moved their

> families. They do not work and are very interested in learning English.

>

> Are they "run of the mill"?

>

> Carol

>

> --

> Director/Language and Culture Specialist

> Battle Creek Language and Culture Center

> 7 Heritage Oak Lane #4

> Battle Creek, Mi 49015

> 269-979-8432

> http://www.bclanguageculture.com

> carolkubota at comcast.net

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com>

> Carol,

>

> To me "run of the mill" means "average." I hope that you didn't get the

> impression that I was being negative. The people who take the time, trouble

> and sometimes loss-of-wages to study English are usually not "average." They

> want more out of their life here.

>

> Ted

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* carolkubota at comcast.net

> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 24, 2008 7:32 AM

> *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2868] Re: citizenship

>

> What do you mean by "run of the mill immigrant".

>

> Carol

>

> --

> Director/Language and Culture Specialist

> Battle Creek Language and Culture Center

> 7 Heritage Oak Lane #4

> Battle Creek, Mi 49015

> 269-979-8432

> http://www.bclanguageculture.com

> carolkubota at comcast.net

>

>

> -------------- Original message --------------

> From: "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com>

> Let's also not forget that the individuals who want the best economic

> opportunities need English the most. The $ is a great motivator. I've

> noticed that most of my immigrant students are innately ambitious, compared

> to the run-of-the-mill immigrant. The first week I always ask my students

> why they want to learn English. The ones who want better jobs, promotions or

> more education are the winners by the end of the term.

>

> Ted

> www.tedklein-ESL.com <http://www.tedklein-esl.com/>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> *From:* Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>

> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> *Sent:* Monday, September 22, 2008 11:34 AM

> *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2834] Re: citizenship

>

> Eduardo,

>

> It has been my experience that people learn languages best from content

> that is of interest to them. Therefore they should have the freedom to

> choose what content to study. For some it may be reading about their home

> countries in English, for others it may be listening to and reading about

> the experiences of the people from their home country who have succeeded in

> the US, and some may want to read about things that are completely new to

> them. All of these options and more should be offered in sound and text

> format.

>

> When I learn a language, I see myself as one of 'them', and I want to join

> their discussion. Right now I regularly download content from a Russian

> radio station, where there is plenty of interesting discussions about

> history, food, travel, politics and business and more. I would love to join

> the discussion as one of them, not as a Canadian. My own culture is

> irrelevant when I study another language and culture.

>

> Steve

> * On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Eduardo Honold <ehonol at sisd.net> wrote:

>

>>  Steve:

>>

>>

>>

>> I completely agree.  The issue is language.   Yet, your assertion that

>> "promoting diversity or celebrating their differences, does not speed up

>> language learning. It is, in fact, unnecessary since that is the natural

>> tendency with first generation immigrants," is not supported by any

>> evidence.  Over the past 8 years, we have been working with actual

>> immigrants in a demonstration EL Civics project in Socorro, Texas.  We have

>> found that talking about the immigrant experience, students' own cultures

>> and experiences in their own countries makes perfect language sense.  We all

>> know how difficult it is for newly-arrived immigrants to use whatever

>> language they have learned in their classes.  But we all know they are

>> initially more likely to use English in reference to topics, feelings, and

>> ideas that are already familiar and important to them.  The language

>> principle involve d her e is scaffolding.  Students move from familiar to

>> unfamiliar material.  So we have them bring an artifact of their own culture

>> or a family photograph to show to the rest of the class and explain its

>> significance.  We have them write their autobiographies and compile them as

>> book for all the class to read and discuss.  Students are eager to tell us

>> their stories, to tell us why they left their country, to discuss their

>> emotions about the immigrant experience.  At the same time we are helping

>> their new immigrants to explore their new communities (e.g. creating

>> community maps, visiting libraries and museums) and to learn about cultural

>> norms and expectations of  their new society through problem-solving

>> scenarios, skits and plays.  As with Ted's survey, we have them think about

>> similarities and differences in the experiences they have encountered here

>> and in their native countries.  So, for instance, they can compare holiday

>> celebrations i n the U nited States and Mexico or how bosses in both

>> countries are likely to react to an employee being late to work.  The fact

>> that they have their own experience to rely upon makes their answers much

>> richer and communicative.  And of course that is another basic tenet of

>> adult learning:  leveraging your students' vast background knowledge and

>> experience. The success of this approach to language learning is supported

>> by excellent student performance in standardized tests (these students are

>> twice as likely to advance an NRS level than the national average) and

>> above-average student retention.  You can take a look at some of this work

>> in www. bordercivics.org

>>

>>

>>

>> I think we can agree that participating in the "mainstream culture" and

>> being aware of your own culture is not an either/or proposition, but I have

>> to disagree with this swipe you took at me:  "Encouraging newcomers to

>> connect with the mainstream culture, which is my no means limited to Donald

>> Duck or whatever caricature was used by Eduardo, is helpful to language

>> learning."  My point in my earlier post was clearly that the American

>> experience cannot be reduced to any particular set of cultural referents and

>> that the "mainstream," as you like to call it, may not be very easily

>> defined.  So let's play fair. By the way, I love Donald Duck.

>>

>>

>>

>> I was also intrigued by your final comment ("But it is hard to learn a

>> people's language if you do not want to join their group. I speak from

>> experience.")  You mean to say that you have "joined" the culture "groups"

>> of the 12 languages you have learned?  If so, you truly are the embodiment

>> of multiculturalism.

>>

>>

>>

>> Eduardo

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Eduardo Honold

>>

>> Far West Project GREAT Coordinator

>>

>> (915) 937-1703

>>

>> fax: (915) 937-1795

>>

>> SISD Community Services

>>

>> 313 S. Rio Vista Rd.

>>

>> El Paso, TX 79927

>>

>> www.farwestgreat.org

>>  ------------------------------

>>

>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:

>> englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann

>> Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:31 PM

>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2819] Re: citizenship

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> The issue here is language. Encouraging newcomers to connect with the

>> mainstream culture, which is my no means limited to Donald Duck or whatever

>> caricature was used by Eduardo, is helpful to language learning. Promoting

>> diversity or celebrating their differences, does not speed up language

>> learning.It is, in fact, unnecessary since that is the natural tendency with

>> first generation immigrants.

>>

>> People will do what people will do. It is not for the state to promote

>> either the melting pot or multicultural model. It is, however, incorrect to

>> say, as Michael does, that the melting pot tries to make every one a WASP. I

>> am not a WASP, my wife is part Chinese and part Hispanic, we speak lots of

>> languages and enjoy lots of cultures, but we consider ourselves part of the

>> mainstream, and effectively melted in the pot.

>>

>> It is possible to participate in the mainstream culture and develop and

>> maintain whatev er ot h er cultural activities or affiliation one wants,

>> ancestral or otherwise.

>>

>> But it is hard to learn a people's language if you do not want to join

>> their group. I speak from experience.

>>

>> Steve

>>

>>

>> --

>> Steve Kaufmann

>> www.lingq.com

>> 1-604-922-8514

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------

>> National Institute for Literacy

>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

>> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

>> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com

>>

>

>

>

> --

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.lingq.com< BR>1-6 04-922-8514

> *

>

> ------------------------------

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com

>

>  ------------------------------

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

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> Email delivered to taklein at austin.rr.com

>

>

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> From: "Ted Klein" <taklein at austin.rr.com>

> To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <

> englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:20:33 +0000

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2872] Re: citizenship

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

> Email delivered to carolkubota at comcast.net

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com

>




-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
1-604-922-8514
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