I did my undergrad degree in French, but when I went to live in France I
found that I constantly lacked certain cultural references that people used
daily. I eventually discovered that they were frequently based on things
common to their childhoods, such as nursery rhymes and children's stories.
It wasn't until I read those that I came to understand these conversational
references. I also learned a lot of vocabulary that every French person
knows, but are never taught in college classrooms and often don't appear on
high frequency word corpora.  I highly recommend reading children's books
and nursery rhymes to all of my students now, both ESL and French.

 

MaKeever Clarke

Program Coordinator of Customized Workplace English

Literacy Volunteers of Greater Syracuse, Inc.

PO Box 27, 2111 South Salina Street

Syracuse, NY  13205

mclarke at lvgs.org

(315) 471-1300 Ext. 14

Customized

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Rosemary Dill
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:18 PM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3222] Using Children's Book

 


Perhaps using children's books can be insulting to some students but ones
like The Giving Tree have more of an adult theme than a children's theme.

 

Rosemarydill

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov
<englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote:

From: englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov>
Subject: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 12:00 PM

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..."
 
 
 
 
Today's Topics:
 
   1. [EnglishLanguage 3218] Re: I don't understand the current
      thinking behind teaching reading to adults! (Steve Kaufmann)
   2. [EnglishLanguage 3219] Re: I don't understand the current
      thinkingbehind teaching reading to adults! (Frances Nehme)
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:28:53 -0800
From: "Steve Kaufmann" <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3218] Re: I don't understand the current
       thinking       behind teaching reading to adults!
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
       <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
       <f1a6e820812030728k516f9e06u686fa167ddbd5047 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
 
I do not understand why teachers are deciding which books their students
should read and listen to. We know that the brain learns best from
meaningful, relevant abd enjoyable content. Only the learner can decide what
is meaningful and enjoyable.
 
Today, with all of the resources available in libraries and on the internet,
it should be possible to help students find content that is of interest to
them. That is probably more important than any explicit instruction  on how
to read, or teacher directed discussions of elements of the culture, that
may or may not be of interest to learners.
 
I certainly would never use children's books to learn another language. But
for those people who like them, fine. I am also not interested in having a
teacher select which elements of the new culture to present to me. As an
adult, I prefer to start my learning with audio and text material from
normal adult daily life, since that context is familiar to me. From that
starting point, I gradually explore the culture on my own terms. In most
languages there is no shortage of such material to choose from, and in
English such resources are particularly abundant.
 
--

> Regards,

> 

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.LingQ.com

> 1-604-922-8514

> [image: LingQ]

> 

> 

> 

> 

> The future of language

> 

> 

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com

> 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20081203/9e3b61be/
attachment-0001.html
 
 
------------------------------
 
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:42:05 +0000
From: Frances  Nehme <frances.nehme at googlemail.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3219] Re: I don't understand the current
       thinkingbehind teaching reading to adults!
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
       <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <C55C594D.FBA5%frances.nehme at googlemail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
 
It seems to me it is all about balance and attitude and what the books are
for. In Tamela?s case, the learner is being given a valid reason for
children?s texts to be used.
 
We need to be careful sometimes because so many ESOL students already feel
infantilised by the system and by their language barriers.
 
If there is any way an adult could feel they were being given a particular
text because of a negative attitude on the part of the teacher, this could
have a really bad impact.
 
EFL learners used simplified texts with controlled headword count and this
may be more appropriate particularly in the case of adults who are already
feeling sensitive about their status and the low level of respect they feel
they receive on a daily basis.
 
In the case of learners who are illiterate in their first language this may
not be so much of an issue, but for adults who are literate in another
language and so readily recognise children?s literature sensitivity may be
raised. 
 
Frances 
 
 
On 3/12/08 15:18, "Wheeler, Tamela" <tmwheeler at pstcc.edu>
wrote:
 

> I?ve used children?s books as a TOOL for my ESOL students to write their

own

> children?s book.  There?s so many stories and folk tales within our

students

> and this is a good avenue for them to share their stories from their

cultures

> of their lives. 

>  

> When I do this project, I require them to read up to 5 children?s books (I

> have a collection of children?s books that I provide).  They fill out a

form

> on each book (giving a summary, main characters, etc).   They really like

this

> project.  I?ve have some beautiful children?s books written and

illustrated by

> my ESOL students. This helps with reading and writing.

>  

> Tamela Wheeler, MA

> Pellissippi State Adult Education

>  

> 

> 

> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Glenda Lynn Rose

> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:54 AM

> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3215] Re: I don't understand the current

> thinkingbehind teaching reading to adults!

>  

>  

>    I have to admit I"m a little insulted by tone of this response.  I

find it

> ironic that open-mindedness is appreciated, but the idea of using

children's

> books is not included in that open-minded attitude.

>     

>   I do selectively use children's books.  I use them because as an

adult some

> of my favorite books are still children's books and I use them when I

teach

> English speakers other subjects as well as language arts.  As far as my

> students being insulted, I have never had a student who complained.  A lot

of

> it may be in the presentation.

>     

>   The use of children's books has to be done with an understanding of

your

> goals and the goals of your students, of course.  Some books I present

because

> they are part of the culture - "I do not like them Sam I am" 

and "It's fun to

> have fun but you have to know how" are phrases from Dr. Seuss, used

outside

> their original storybook context, for example.

>   Alexander and the Terrible Horrible No Good Very Bad Day is one of my

and my

> students' favorite books, because it reminds us that bad days happen

and

> happen regardless of where you live ("even in Australia")  (and

how your

> attitude is in the  morning really affects how you see the rest of the

day.)

>   Some bilingual books, like The Upside Down Boy and I Love Saturdays y

> Domingos I use because my students are mainly parents, and these books

address

> issues that their children may be experiencing.

>     

>   David Schwarzer said that if the teacher likes to dance, everyone

dances.

> Maybe that's part of the key.  I love children's books.  I

continue to read

> them as an adult.  I have a large personal collection of books from which

my

> students voluntarily (ie., ASK) to borrow.  If the teacher, however,

dislikes

> children's books, then clearly he or she should not use them, because

that

> dislike will be transmitted to the students and clearly will not be an

> effective teaching tool.

>     

>   In short, I respect your decision to not use children's books and

your

> reasons, but I also ask that you consider the possiblity that the use of

> children's books is not as "insulting" or degrading as you

might think,

> depending on how and why they are used.

>     

>     

>     

>    Grace and Peace!

>  Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD

>   512-789-5131 (cell)

>   glyndalin at yahoo.com

>   

>    

>  

>  

>  

>  --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Jose Perez <joseperez3338 at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jose

> Perez <joseperez3338 at gmail.com>

>  Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3214] Re: I don't understand the current

thinking

> behind teaching reading to adults!

>  To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"

> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>

>  Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 9:19 PM

> Ali,

>  

> Thank goodness for young, innovative, open-minded, "thinking outside

> the box" individuals like you. We need more future educators like

you,

> so I want to thank you for your very astute observations and comments.

>  

> In my humble opinion, there is no place for children's books in an

> adult class--whether it's an ESL class or an ABE class. It is

> insulting, degrading and humiliating for adults, males especially, to

> be handed children's books. It is a mistake many educators make. Maybe

> it's because they don't realize the stigma and unfortunate

humialition

> these adults go through just admitting that they can't read, or how

> hard it is to learn the (complicated) English language when your

> native language is, say, Spanish. So I applaud you for not stooping to

> giving your adult students children's books.

>  

> I know I've said this before, but I am most likely one of their

> biggest fans. Have you tried the Junkyard Dan series by Nox Press?

> These are books written on a first-grade reading level, but are for

> adults and are not the typical condescending, dated, boring books that

> we usually give these students. They are crime dramas. I use these

> books with great success, and my students can't get enough of them. I

> think that as a young, innovative educator, who seems to have a full

> understanding on why our current ways are, on a whole, not effective

> and not working very well for our adult students, if you visit the Nox

> Press website, you will see what I am talking about. Your students

> will thank you. But don't take my word for it. Check 'em out

yourself!

>  

> Good luck in your future teaching carreer, and may you make many great

> changes in your lifetime.

>  

> Jose Perez

>  

> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Ali Hesami <hesamiar at gmail.com>

wrote:

>> > That's a great point, and exactly what I'm talking about.

If we as

> educators

>> > keep extrapolating on teaching methods for children because there

are not

>> > many adult-specific methods, how can we ever hope to develop an

>> > adult-specific method? I think we can agree that adults of

varying ages do

>> > not learn as children do, and have drastically different literacy

needs.

>> > 

>> > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Bonnie Odiorne

> <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net>

>> > wrote:

>>> >> 

>>> >> I don't know a lot about adult reading acquisition

theories, but I

> do know

>>> >> that many researchers take what works for children and

extrapolate,

> since

>>> >> little work has been done with adults. The most important

issue would

> be

>>> >> content, as folks have mentioned, and how the brain

works, added to

> the

>>> >> adult's experience (possible trauma from illiteracy)

and passive

> oral

>>> >> vocabulary. I've been taught a combination of

choosing key words

> to remember

>>> >> initial letters and word patterns to help with

sound/letter

> correspondence;

>>> >> language experience stories that the learner would

dictate and could

> then

>>> >> "read" relatively quickly, and a quick

development of sight

> word vocabulary.

>>> >> Also workplace or other realia that the learner needs to

function. In

>>> >> relation to using children's books or techniques (the

Wilson

> method comes to

>>> >> mind) I'd do it only if reading to children was one

of the

> adult's goals;

>>> >> otherwise learners can make their own picture books with

doodles and

>>> >> accompanying text limited to their level and interest. I

do have

> direct

>>> >> experience with taking a Methods and Materials ESL class

whose

> professor's

>>> >> only knowledge of adult learners was of graduate

assistants in her

>>> >> University, though she claimed adult learning as her

specialty;

> otherwise

>>> >> her materials came right out of chldren's contexts

and K-12

> methodology; she

>>> >> didn't appreciate my more "practical"

methods and

> materials that didn't have

>>> >> communicative language games....

>>> >> Bonnie Odiorne, Post University Writing Center,

Waterbury, CT

>>> >> 

>>> >> --- On Tue, 12/2/08, Ali Hesami

<hesamiar at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> >> 

>>> >> From: Ali Hesami <hesamiar at gmail.com>

>>> >> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3184] I don't understand

the current

> thinking

>>> >> behind teaching reading to adults!

>>> >> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov

>>> >> Date: Tuesday, December 2, 2008, 12:29 AM

>>> >> 

>>> >> Hello all.

>>> >> My name is Ali Hesami, and I am currently a graduate

student in the

> adult

>>> >> literacy program at Virginia Commonwealth University in

Richmond,

> Virginia.

>>> >> I've been attending a class called "Teaching

Reading to

> Adults" as part of

>>> >> my required curriculum, and I have been wondering about

the current

> methods

>>> >> used to teach reading to adults. It seems to me that the

teacher teach

>>> >> adults just as they would teach children, often even

using research

> and

>>> >> writing on teaching reading to children as guidelines.

>>> >> While I understand the usefulness of phonics, phonetics,

etc. by

>>> >> themselves, I firmly believe that an adult can better

benefit from

> learning

>>> >> to read by simply reading in a classroom environment,

guided by

> teachers,

>>> >> tutors, etc. An adult in his or her 40s or even 50s

simply should not

> have

>>> >> to sit through long sessions of syllable by syllable

instruction if

> all they

>>> >> desire id to be better able to communicate with others

and better

> express

>>> >> their opinions about the world surrounding them.

>>> >> I speak from experience here. I began learning English as

a 14 year

> old in

>>> >> an international school in Tanzania. I placed into the

9th grade to

> start;

>>> >> no one ever even approached phonics, phonemes, etc. I

read and

> listened, all

>>> >> the while guided by teachers who helped me with the

material at hand.

> I

>>> >> became conversational in about three months or so, while

I worked on

> my

>>> >> writing, also with guidance from my teachers. Conversely,

while in

> school in

>>> >> my native Tehran, Iran, I was taught English in a similar

manner as

> here,

>>> >> and I spoke a grand total of three phrases when I left

Iran for

> Tanzania:

>>> >> Hello, Fine thank you, and Beg your pardon? I'm not

even joking

> here!

>>> >> I admit as a 14 year old I had an advantage over adults

here, but I

> can't

>>> >> help but wonder if what worked for me would help adults

much more than

>>> >> playing word games and reading children's books.

>>> >> Let's have them read material they can identify with

in some way,

> and keep

>>> >> them reading, while slowly working on their writing skill

alongside.

>>> >> Let me know any thoughts, ideas, criticisms, etc. It has

been eating

> away

>>> >> at me for a few months now.

>>> >> Thanks in advance,

>>> >> Ali Hesami

>>> >> hesamiar at gmail.com

>>> >> 

>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> >> National Institute for Literacy

>>> >> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

>>> >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,

please go to

>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

>>> >> Email delivered to bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net

>>> >> 

>>> >> ----------------------------------------------------

>>> >> National Institute for Literacy

>>> >> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

>>> >> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

>>> >> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings,

please go to

>>> >> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

>>> >> Email delivered to hesamiar at gmail.com

>> > 

>> > 

>> > ----------------------------------------------------

>> > National Institute for Literacy

>> > Adult English Language Learners mailing list

>> > EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

>> > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

>> > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

>> > Email delivered to joseperez3338 at gmail.com

>> > 

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

> Email delivered to glyndalin at yahoo.com

>  

>  

> 

> 

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult English Language Learners mailing list

> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

> Email delivered to frances.nehme at gmail.com

 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20081203/2431d4d8/
attachment-0001.html
 
 
------------------------------
 
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
 
End of EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
***********************************************

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20081204/57861705/attachment.html 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 5390 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/englishlanguage/attachments/20081204/57861705/attachment.jpe