I have been following this discussion with great interest.  I myself grew up in a small German speaking community in northern Canada.  My grandparents were adamant about preserving language and culture.  Me....not so interested.  Now, I am a first generation college graduate with a MA degree in TESOL. I moved from Canada and now live in the US, and I don't really speak a word of German.  I have come to believe that our emotions are the gatekeepers of our identity.  It is hard to open up a conversation like this and not find that emotions flare.  As a child, I was more interested in playing with my friends than learning to speak German. I knew that my parents and grandparents where somewhat disappointed with this decision... they told me so.   As an adult, I am not proud of the fact that I don't speak German...I wish I did. However, I attribute who I am.., my values, work ethic, beliefs... to those experiences that shaped me early on.  I have a great passion for what I do, and for my students. I am not afraid of being in the room where people are speaking languages that I don't understand.  I recognize that people need a choice in what they want to learn and the pace at which it happens.  I understand that the whole thing is very messy. Thank you Oma and Opa



One more thing on this subject... I love the poem "Theme for English B" by Langston Hughes.



Darlene



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From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Muro, Andres
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2008 5:33 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2822] Re: citizenship



Actually preserving diversity and culture is not the natural thing to do. The opposite is the case. In fact, for most the original culture and language is lost after three generations. It takes a conscious effort from the original immigrants to preserve these things for them to be passed on to the second and third generations.



Third generation children of immigrants and older. A significant amount of the US population have completely lost any traces of culture and language from the original immigrants. In fact, many of these are the ones that are against immigration reform, multiculturalism, etc and love to state that their ancestors came legally and learned the language. Fact is that the first generation, if they arrived as adults, didn't learn anything. They simply worked  like mad to provide for their children. If some of you have a different story, it is not the rule but the exception.



In some places it may appear that original cultures are preserved because the number of first generation immigrants is greater and because over the years, there have been significant efforts by these to try to preserve elements of their culture. So, in California, New York City, Washington DC you may find multicultural evidence. In the rest of the country it is not the case.



I live in El Paso a mostly immigrant bilingual community. Despite great efforts to preserve Spanish through bilingual public schools, college and university courses, and the abundance of Spanish speaking, it is all first generation usage. The second generation hardly speaks Spanish outside of the homes and third generation immigrants don't use Spanish.



Now, there are reasons for us finding that some kids don't speak English in the third, fourth, fifth grade and even high school. The ignorant assumption is that they, their parents are lazy and don't want the kids to learn English. In fact, the opposite is true. Children become fluent in English and loose the native language within a year or so. Then, why do some kids still speak their native language even in High school? Well, may be they just immigrated.



In addition, the first generation immigrants tend to work in the service industry. These include waiter and waitresses, cooks, maids, repair, gardening, agriculture, factory and construction people. So when we use these services, we are very likely to encounter immigrants. In addition, in industry cities they congregate in large amounts. So we think that the entire US is being overrun by immigrants that don't speak English because the construction crew, cooking staff, maid don't speak English. Fact is that they just arrived in the US. Their children are loosing the language and culture and their grand children can only say hi grandma/pa in the original language and their only connection to their ancestry are some strange dishes.



A few parents who have the resources make conscious efforts to preserve original culture and values. This is still very difficult to do and the second and third generation of immigrants speak the language of their parents poorly and don't read or write it very well even when the effort to pass on these values has been made. This is because it is hard to maintain a language that you don't use and ultimately they don't.



Michael, I don't know if you and your wife have children. But watch them grow up and see how the language that you and your wife speak are lost, unless they become linguists, translators, or professional users of the various languages. Even with conscious efforts by your wife to pass on Chinese language, it will slowly erode. Your grand children will only be able to say hi in Chinese and most likely won't write it.



Andres



Please visit my art website at:

http://www.geocities.com/andresmuro/art.html



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From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Fri 9/19/2008 4:30 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2819] Re: citizenship

The issue here is language. Encouraging newcomers to connect with the mainstream culture, which is my no means limited to Donald Duck or whatever caricature was used by Eduardo, is helpful to language learning. Promoting diversity or celebrating their differences, does not speed up language learning.It is, in fact, unnecessary since that is the natural tendency with first generation immigrants.

People will do what people will do. It is not for the state to promote either the melting pot or multicultural model. It is, however, incorrect to say, as Michael does, that the melting pot tries to make every one a WASP. I am not a WASP, my wife is part Chinese and part Hispanic, we speak lots of languages and enjoy lots of cultures, but we consider ourselves part of the mainstream, and effectively melted in the pot.

It is possible to participate in the mainstream culture and develop and maintain whatever other cultural activities or affiliation one wants, ancestral or otherwise.

But it is hard to learn a people's language if you do not want to join their group. I speak from experience.

Steve


--
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/>
1-604-922-8514




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