Thanks for a copy.


jwilletts at bccc.edu<mailto:jwilletts at bccc.edu>


From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Bullock, Joyce (KYAE)
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:22 PM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1740] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

Susan, I would like to request a copy.

Joyce Bullock
Associate, Kentucky Adult Education
Council on Postsecondary Education
1024 Capital Center Drive, Suite 250
Frankfort, KY 40601-8204
www.kyae.ky.gov<http://www.kyae.ky.gov/>
800-928-7323
502-573-5114, ext 118
Cell: 502-330-3433



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Shrestha, Pamela
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 11:10 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1732] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

Susan:  I would also like to receive a copy.  Thanks.

Pamela Shrestha, Educational Consultant
Florida Department of Education
Pamela.shrestha at fldoe.org<mailto:Pamela.shrestha at fldoe.org>

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Barbara Tondre
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 5:14 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1707] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

Susan, I would like to request a copy - electronic or paper?  Barbara Tondre

________________________________
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Susan Kidd
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 3:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1705] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

A couple of years ago a group of ABE math teachers from Washington State looked at the content of  CASAS Life Skills and Employability, the GED and both the COMPASS and ASSET Numeracy/Pre-Algebra tests. If anyone would like to see the crosswalk they created, I'd be glad to send you a copy.


Susan

Susan Kidd
ABE Professional Development Coordinator
State Board for Community & Technical Colleges
office phone: 509-682-6968
cell phone: 509-630-4520
skidd at sbctc.edu



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Joyce Winters
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 9:50 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1696] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

Thanks so much for your work and offer to share it, Tom.  Has anyone also done this kind of work with the Compass placement test?


Joyce Winters,
Professional Development Specialist
NWRC/Owens Community College
2249 Tracy Road, Room 169
Northwood, Ohio 43619
567-661-7675
joyce_winters at owens.edu<mailto:joyce_winters at owens.edu>



>>> "Mechem, Thompson" <tmechem at doe.mass.edu> 2/5/2009 10:35 AM >>>

Ramsey, et al.---

Well, I can tell you what in my amateurish way I have done. For a number of years part of my job has been to make presentations to GED teachers and program directors regarding what skill sets are needed for success on the five parts of the GED tests. As you know, no one can see the GED tests, so it's hard for teachers to know what to teach or what it means that one of their students got a 410 on the Writing test, and so on. The GED Testing Service in Washington provides us with valuable information on the most-missed questions (based on their analysis of every test taken world-wide since January 1, 2002); we have the GED Item-Writing Manuals, which give valuable insights into the philosophy of how the GED questions are formulated; and we pester the GEDTS at every opportunity for more info. Teachers have found this to be valuable for the most part.

Lately I have focused more on the Math because it is the main reason for GED failures and it is far and away the main reason that GED grads end up in developmental courses.

Last spring, after it finally sunk in that GED grads were not getting anywhere near as far as they needed in post-secondary education, that a great majority  were wallowing in (mostly math) developmental courses, that poor performance on the ACCUPLACER math test was one of the main reasons for that, and that there was no correlation between a GED math score and an ACCUPLACER algebra score, I took the ACCUPLACER Algebra test (something I recommend everyone interested in this subject to do). And I almost threw up, not just for myself, trying to battle through it, but for our GED grads, knowing what it was going to look like to them. So I took the ACCUPLACER dozens more times and I have put together another presentation for teachers and program directors which talks about the differences (in philosophy, in how the test is presented and taken, and in the skills sets needed) and starts the dialogue as to how we can create a GED math curriculum that prepares our students to pass the GED tests, do well enough on the ACCUPLACER to avoid developmental courses, and succeed in college Math classes.

(Here's a brief example: if the GED test wants you to use the formula for the area of a rectangle, it will create a "real-life" situation in a word problem, somebody building a patio or whatever, and the answer will be what our GED students consider an "answer," "460 square feet" or something like that. On the ACCUPLACER, the rectangle will have a width of "x" and a length of "x + 3," so the area will be (I can't type the exponent, but...) "x2 + 3x" and all the multiple-choice wrong answers will be in that form, more or less.)

These presentations have been great for me because of the tremendous enthusiasm and input from the teachers, "Well, here's a difficulty you present and here's how I address that in my class." And the discussion this week has been fabulous in that respect as well: so many dedicated people and so many fantastic ideas I can hardly steal them all.

If anyone were to e-mail me off-list, I could send you my PowerPoint presentation: one man's opinion, a work in progress, but perhaps food for further thought.

Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
781-338-6621
"GED to Ph.D."
-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Ramsey Ludlow
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 8:50 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1684] Re: Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.
Very interesting, Donna. You refer to Tom Mechem's  identification of the math that is tested on the Accuplacer. What are those, and how do we get that info?

Thanks,

Ramsey Ludlow
Oxford / Buckfield Hills Adult Education
South Paris, Maine 04281

Donna Chambers wrote:
Jessie,

Thank you for bringing up the issue of the less rigorous current NEDP math requirements.  As you mentioned, CASAS is in the process of revalidating the competencies, but we cannot wait for this work to be completed.  Here is how we are planning to address this in RI to be fare to the NEDP graduates who are planning to move on to college or other post-secondary programs through our Transitions program.

All NEDP candidates are informed when they first enter the program that by fulfilling the national requirements they will still need further work to meet the demands of most post-secondary programs.   Since our pilot will blend both TTC and NEDP, candidates will fulfill the NEDP math requirements as a first step and a base.  This math is basic arithmetic.  Our combined National External Diploma Program/Transitions to College Program will have the additional requirements of learning, practicing and being assessed in the math that is being tested on the Accuplacer (which my good buddy, Tom Mechem, has so painstakingly identified.)   This is targeted scaffold instruction that requires competency-based assessment (no one gets by without demonstrating understanding).  You might call this NEDP Plus,  since these participants will be going beyond the NEDP competencies to earn their diploma. The reading and writing will also have increased rigor.  What we will be doing is adding RI Transitions to College requirements to the NEDP requirements.  This work does not change the existing NEDP requirements, but offers additional activities beyond for our Rhode Islanders.

Massachusetts Adult Diploma Program has a similar process in that all diploma participants must meet the state MCAS rcompetency determination before a diploma can be awarded.  In many ways, these graduates are more ready academically to transition into college because they are required to demonstrate understanding.

I hope this helps.
Donna Chambers



  ----- Original Message -----
From: Jessie Stadd<mailto:jstadd at gmail.com>
To: Assessment at nifl.gov<mailto:Assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1677] Adult Ed Math & Accuplacer, cont.

Hi All,
I am the Program Coordinator for Academy of Hope and Beyond Talent's Pathways College Preparation Program, currently Washington D.C.'s only college prep program for adult learners.  Unlike states where adult ed programs are housed in community colleges or public schools, the district relies on community-based non-profit organizations such as ours. In addition to Pathways, Academy of Hope offers ABE/GED classes and Beyond Talent offers peer-mentoring to non-traditional graduates.

Pathways follows the College Prep model and is comprised of three month-long modules: writing, math, and college prep & career development (applications, financial aid documents, etc.).  Our Pathways students are primarily GED or EDP graduates, although we have had several high school graduates in the program. All enter the program with generally weak math skills. Most will attend our local university, UDC, or neighboring community colleges in Virginia or Maryland, all of which use the Accuplacer. Prior to starting, most of our GED and EDP graduates placed into remedial math classes.

To address your point, Donna, while all of our students need extra work in math, we have found that GED graduates generally have higher math skills than our EDP graduates. Our GED graduates have some understanding of algebra (at least of its existence!) but that is not the case for the EDP grads. EDP learners entering the program scored in the 210s and 220s on the B level math CASAS. As a GED instructor, I had always felt that the less rigorous math requirements of EDP were a benefit and allowed students to earn a credential who otherwise might not. However, as a college prep program coordinator, EDP is doing a disservice to its students who believe that since they earned an actual high school diploma they are prepared for college. I understand that EDP is now in the process of revamping their competencies to increase the amount of math required. For those students who are interested in pursuing higher education, I do believe this is a positive step.

Thank you,
Jessie Stadd
AoH Program Coordinator, Pathways College Preparation Program
Lifelong Learning Coach, Academy of Hope/Beyond Talent
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