Tom, you articulated my own thoughts very well!  Thank you!  
 
GED level algebra is actually quite basic and is generally perceived as a fundamental math needed by all students.  It has many simple, real-life applications even though some may not think of the calculations used as being algebraic, i.e. recipes, drug dosage calculations, purchasing, painting and wallpapering, etc. Teaching/facilitating the connection between algebra and real life applications often helps de-mystify algebra and decreases the angst that some students have when they "hit the algebra wall".  Additionally and, in my opinion, as important, skills necessary for mastering algebra are among necessary 21st century skills, i.e. 
problem solving
accessing, processing, and synthesizing information
critical thinking and reasoning skills, 
abstract thinking, 
self-directed learning, etc.
Just a few thoughts to offer....
 
 
Melinda
 
Melinda M. Hefner
Director, Literacy Support Services

Basic Skills Department
Caldwell Community College and Technical Institute
2855 Hickory Blvd.
Hudson, North Carolina 28638
Office: 828.726.2245
FAX:    828.726.2266
 

>>> On 2/3/2009 at 3:01 pm, in message <29CFEE83EDF92741BF0ED3F5D9BC7E87FE753E at exchange2.doe.mass.edu>, "Mechem, Thompson" <tmechem at doe.mass.edu> wrote:

And to support you, Marie, I come back to my pet obsession of the moment, which is the ACCUPLACER: without sound algebra skills, GED grads are doomed to the abyss of developmental math courses and/or an often futile struggle with college-level math. Other states with different college placement tests have the exact same problem. So lament it or not, algebra is the world our students must be able to navigate through to access post-secondary education and training.

Tom Mechem
GED State Chief Examiner
Department of Elementary & Secondary Education
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
781-338-6621
"GED to Ph.D."


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On
Behalf Of Marie Cora
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:35 PM
To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'
Subject: [Assessment 1596] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2


Hi Kathy, Roger, and everyone,

While I also am math challenged, and I feel competent in my daily math
skills, I guess I would argue that all this depends entirely on the
context and the needs of the student.  There are an awful lot of careers
and jobs that depend on the individual having a good command of higher
order math, and there are a lot of people interested in this type of
math (some who do not even realize it).  

But perhaps this is what you are saying - that maybe if the curriculum
were better constructed, like a ladder say, then the people who do want
to pursue math will, and in greater numbers.

Is that what you're saying?

Thanks,

Marie Cora
Assessment Discussion List Moderator


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Ellithorpe, Kathy
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:53 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1578] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2



Bravo, Roger.  Just put me in the shootong line.  I have made it very
well thank you without the knowledge of math beyond basic algebra.  I
probably did have the knowledge at one time-but as the old saying
goes..."use it or lose it"   In most daily lives higher order math is
just not necessary.  Problem IS with the curriculm-not the learners...


-----Original Message-----
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of nqr at mac.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:35 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Cc: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 1577] Re: Reply to Questions 1 and 2

Tom  is, as usual, correct.  My concern is that some students could and
should be able to gain a certificate or, perhaps,  even an Associate's
without a knowledge of algebra.  

I have a Ph D and slogged through three grad course in statistics.
However, if you put a gun to my head and ordered me to solve an equation
with two unknowns I would tell you to shoot me.

I was a Tenured Full Professor at the University of Nebraska as well
managed world-wide customer research for IBM without knowing how to
solve that sort of equation.  

Perhaps, the problem is with the curriculum and not the learners.  

Roger Berg
11 Hall Street
Plymouth, MA 02360
508 746 6345
roger_berg at mac.com


On Tuesday, February 03, 2009, at 09:56AM, "Mechem, Thompson"
<tmechem at doe.mass.edu> wrote:

>Stephanie, et al.---

> 

>In our state we also find that the low academic skill level of GED

diploma recipients is, if not the biggest barrier to post-secondary
education, at least a very major one. A huge majority of GED students
end up in college developmental courses from which they never emerge.
The unindicted co-conspirator in all this is the ACCUPLACER, the
placement test that all applicants to Massachusetts state colleges must
take. Our data shows that while GED grads do very well on the reading
part of the ACCUPLACER and quite well on the Writing in terms of
avoiding developmental courses, on the the Math they do very, very
poorly. There is no correlation between GED math and ACCUPLACER/college
Algebra: a person can get an 800 on the GED math test and still test
into developmental math at a community college. I am working with GED
math teachers around Massachusetts to develop a GED curriculum that will
allow students to pass the GED test with all due speed and also pass the
ACCUPLACER math t!
est.

>

>Tom Mechem

>GED State Chief Examiner

>Department of Elementary & Secondary Education Commonwealth of 

>Massachusetts

>781-338-6621

>"GED to Ph.D." 

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

>[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Stephanie Moran

>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 3:28 PM

>To: 'The Assessment Discussion List'

>Subject: [Assessment 1563] Reply to Questions 1 and 2

>

>

>

>1.        The low skill level of many students trying to transition

from GED to college may be the biggest barrier. We are part of the SUN
grant/College Connection grant here in Colorado, so we are in the middle
of  doing exactly this-working in an intensive 8-week program that is
attempting to help our GED grads accelerate their skill levels in
reading, writing, math, study skills, critical thinking-and learn how to
"do college" as well as explore career options. Our students are
dedicated, but many nevertheless lack more sophisticated skills. One of
our grant goals is to help them successfully pass through their current
remedial course, and if they are at the 030 or 060 level, to perhaps
skip over the next one into the higher 060/090 or into credit-bearing
courses altogether.

>

>--Study skills of students-many GED students are episodic in their

attendance and can still pull off a solid GED score, but college demands
consistent and focused show-up-and-suit-up skills that may be unfamiliar
if not downright foreign to GED grads.

>

>--Another barrier is that some teachers perceive their primary role as

helping students earn the GED and although such teachers often support
post-GED studies, they don't want to push students or focus on
higher-level skills. This creates a de facto tracking system, and it may
be that centers will need to formalize such tracking so that students
who know they want to go on to post-GED studies can work with those
teachers.

>

>2.  Resources:  Having GED teachers who also teach as adjuncts for

community colleges is hugely helpful because we understand both systems
and what is required for a student to be successful in a college
environment; we also can tutor and advocate in a way that teachers who
teach at only one level may not be able or willing to do as effectively.

>

>--THE SUN/ College Connection grant has given us time and funding to

develop curriculum, to work in close collaboration with other
teacher/team members, and to introduce this approach to the community
colleges.

>

> 

>

>Stephanie Moran

>

>Durango, CO

>

> 

>

>From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] 

>On Behalf Of Marie Cora

>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 7:52 AM

>To: Assessment at nifl.gov

>Subject: [Assessment 1557] Transitions Discussion begins today!

>

> 

>

>Good morning, afternoon and evening to you all.

>

> 

>

>Today begins our week-long discussion on Transitions in Adult

Education.  

>

> 

>

>For full information on this discussion, go to:

>

> 

>

>http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/09transitions.html

>

> 

>

>I have some questions for subscribers:

>

> 

>

>1.  What seem to pose the biggest obstacles for your program when

trying to successfully transition adult students from one education
level to another, or from education to the workforce?  What does your
program try to do about this?

>

> 

>

>2.  What resources have you found helpful when trying to successfully

transition a student?  How have they been helpful?

>

> 

>

>3.  Please comment on the Introduction and/or Recommended Preparations

for this Discussion, found at the announcement URL above.

>

> 

>

>Please post your questions and share your experiences now.  

>

> 

>

>Thanks!!

>

> 

>

>Marie Cora

>

>Assessment Discussion List Moderator

>

> 

>

>

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