In the USA, we begin asking children, "What do you think/" in kindergarten. This is not done in many other countires of the world. Children are in school to learn, not to express their opinions.  So...years later, we get these same grown up children in our ESL classes. And when we ask them, "What do you think?" they look decidedly uncomfortable.
 
I continue to ask, "What do you think?" in my classes because that is how we learn in the USA.  But, at the same time, I know that some of my students will be very slow to answer questions of his kind.  I do not push them.  
 
Rosemary Dill
ESL teacher ( 25 years) in CT. 
--- 
 
 
 
On Thu, 7/30/09, englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote:


From: englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov>
Subject: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 46, Issue 27
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:00 PM


When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..."




Today's Topics:

   1. [EnglishLanguage 4662] Re: learnerempowerment (Michael A. Gyori)
   2. [EnglishLanguage 4663] Re: Second vs. foreign language
      instruction (Steve Kaufmann)
   3. [EnglishLanguage 4664] Re: computers for families
      programs+learnerempowerment (Kearney Lykins)
   4. [EnglishLanguage 4665] Re: critical thinking (Michael Tate)
   5. [EnglishLanguage 4666] Re: computers for families
      programs+learnerempowerment (Bonnie Odiorne)
   6. [EnglishLanguage 4667] Re: critical thinking (Michael A. Gyori)
   7. [EnglishLanguage 4668]  Critical Thinking Skills for
      clarification (Glenda Lynn Rose)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 11:56:44 -1000
From: "Michael A. Gyori" <mgyori at mauilanguage.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4662] Re: learnerempowerment
To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'"
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <COL117-DS24BCD0ACD4F4CD965B0512B0120 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello Steve and all,



All you mention below is true, except for what can and cannot be taught,
although much that is taught is not learned (or what is learned is something
other than what is taught).



Educators' core efforts in the domain of real-life teaching and learning
lies in the facilitation of the attainment of targeted life outcomes that
are ultimately dictated by learner goals (of which they often become (more)
aware in the course of instruction).   You would be doing a great disservice
to SL learners by implementing an FL curriculum, and perhaps to a lesser
degree, vice versa.  



Critical thinking is not a value system, although it is very much conducted
according to "cultural" norms; nor is critical thinking something that is
"imposed" but rather developed:  a skill and level of cognitive activity
that can help empower learners to function independently in life - skills
and abilities that correlate much more with immigrants' needs than with
those of travelers to a foreign country for a couple of weeks.



Your case appears so very general, almost philosophical, as to elude
operational definition and practical pedagogic application. Further, as
repeatedly mentioned, your notion of what constitutes language is limited to
its purely linguistic features.  



If these comments continue to meet with your disagreement, I, for one, would
be greatly interested in how you would conduct SL instruction in a classroom
of newcomer immigrants, especially ones with little or no schooling.



Michael



From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:44 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4654] Re: learnerempowerment



I understand that the distinction between EFL and ESL learning is a popular
one here. I do not agree. 

There can be as much difference between different ESL and EFL learners as
there is between the one group and the other. There are immigrant ESL
learners who are isolated, and who choose to remain isolated, from the local
culture and there are EFL learners who cannot get enough of the culture of
the language they are learning. 

The former group will resist any new ways of thinking and the latter will
avidly seek them out. But it will be on their own terms as part of their
discovery of the language. It cannot, in my view, be taught. To try to do so
is a distraction from the goal of helping learners enjoy the new language,
and learn it on their own terms.



-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com
www.lingq.com
604-922-8514

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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:04:08 -0700
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4663] Re: Second vs. foreign language
    instruction
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
    <f1a6e820907291504n16f38d7fo96154b63a9f73055 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I like to explore the language and culture myself, and ask about things that
interest me. I have had the experience of teachers telling me about things
they think are important in their culture, like some summer festival, or
other aspect of the culture. Usually these things are of no interest to me
at all.

I do not place much stock in socio-linguistics, which I consider just
another distraction from the task of helping learners acquire a language.

Among the most popular items in our library at LIngQ are Dr. Laura's radio
programs. I do not  necessarily share her views on things. I once got a
complaint form one of our gay learners so I assume she is rather
conservative. The point is that it is not for me to change the social or
political views of our learners.

If I have a learner from Saudi Arabia who does not think women should drive,
or that we should not vote for legislators because laws come from Allah, I
am not going to try to persuade him to apply critical thinking to his
religious beliefs. I may discuss the point but only to force him to use the
language to defend his views. I would not tell him what I really think of
his religious views. I would certainly not bother him with my views about
lobbyists in Washington.

I would not, Bonnie, tell French language students that the French are rude,
or similar personal views. I would focus on helping them find things of
interest to read and listen to about the country and region they were
planning to visit.

Janet, the attitude of the learner toward the language, and the proximity of
the learner's language to the language being studied, are more important
than distinctions between EFL and ESL. I find appalling the degree to which
people on this listserve, and other language teachers I have come across,
are focused on matters that have little to do with language learning. I hang
around this listserve to try to stimulate a little critical thinking, in the
hope that some people might challenge the prevailing orthodoxy.

Steve





-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com
www.lingq.com
604-922-8514
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:15:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4664] Re: computers for families
    programs+learnerempowerment
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <632372.80542.qm at web37908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Bonnie,

Why is promoting an awareness of the?differences between French and?American cultures?necessary for language learning?

Kearney
?
?
?
Kearney_Lykins at yahoo.com




________________________________
From: Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 11:44:08 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4649] Re: computers for families programs+learnerempowerment


Steve,
No one (to my knowledge) adressed "imposing" one's values in the classroom. Cannot cultural awareness be done with questioning: did you notice this? why?do you think that this may or may not be important? what woud you do if...???how would doing that thing be different in French or Ameircian culture??We read our?environments all the time?and I can only assume that reading means decoding, interpreting?that is tested by experience.Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Director, Writing Center Adjunct Professor of English, French, First Year Transitions, Day Division and ADP
Post University, Waterbury, CT 




________________________________
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:52:09 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4639] Re: computers for families programs+learnerempowerment

The brain learns from experience and massive input of information. It seeks to create patterns from this anarchy of stimulus using comparisons and metaphors. The brain is neither precise nor logical in organizing this information. The Thai student will form her own ideas from a variety of input, so will the student of French. I think that the role of the language teacher is to allow the student to learn the language from content of interest to him or her. It is not to impose ways of thinking. 

Each teacher's approach to critical thinking will be individual to him or her.? As long as the teacher's ideas were presented in the language I was learning, and to the extent that I found them of interest, I would listen. I would not just accept them. If I found these views uninteresting it would turn me off. Especially if I felt the teacher was preaching at me or trying to tell me how to interpret what I read.




-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com
www.lingq.com
604-922-8514



      
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:26:46 -0700
From: Michael Tate <mtate at sbctc.edu>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4665] Re: critical thinking
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
    <6166DAF11B548844952130C4F6C2124C062AD65671 at exch-2.sbctc2.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Kearny,

There are clear examples of how the power structure, both here and in other countries, has used and continues to use illiteracy as a tool of enforcement.  The Taliban forbids girl?s schools.  Southern White terrorists punished those who taught Blacks reading and writing.  Canadians, Australians and Americans rounded up Indian children into boarding schools, so they couldn?t learn their tribal languages.  The list is long.

Illiteracy is too often a result of sociopolitical deficits, not student deficits.  Underclass students need to know that.  Teaching literacy is teaching power.  Learning to read and write is the first step out of invisibility, the first step toward self-determination.  Re-discovered power without critical thinking skills re-invents oppression, with the formerly oppressed as the new oppressors.  Teaching critical thinking skills with literacy is essential.

Michael Tate

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Kearney Lykins
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:08 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4657] Re: critical thinking

Alisa,

It seems to me that the formal discipline that most directly engages in the study of critical thinking is philsophy.

Like Steve, when I have shared with non-subscribers that most literacy teachers on this listserve see their role as critical thinking specialists and agents for social change, they are shocked and yes, appalled.  Would that English teachers teach English.


Regards,

Kearney



Kearney_Lykins at yahoo.com

C: (614) 787-2202
H: (614) 760-1407


________________________________
From: "Povenmire, Alisa" <apovenmire at necc.mass.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:41:23 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4647] Re: critical thinking
Perhaps what we do is not teach critical thinking per se, but instead teach language in such a way as to require students to respond critically and to use language constructs that reflect their thoughts- rather than just rote learning.  I encourage my teachers to incorporate critical thinking into their curricula in order to draw out richer and more thoughtful language from their students.  When I say ?incorporate critical thinking?, I mean activity such as persuasive essays, reflective journals, verbal critiques, debates, etc.  I encourage teachers to push students to use more language by asking them why? How? Tell me more.  Anyone is qualified to do this.

Is there another, more formal, discipline of ?critical thinking??


Alisa Vlahakis Povenmire
ESOL Coordinator/Counselor
Adult Literacy and Transition Programs
Northern Essex Community College, Extension Campus
78 Amesbury Street
Lawrence, MA 01840-1312
apovenmire at necc.mass.edu<mailto:apovenmire at necc.mass.edu>
978-738-7623


From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:41 AM
To: programs at englishcenter.edu; The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4638] Re: learnerempowerment

I am fluent and conduct business in a number of languages. This means that I can read books, newspapers, and listen to radio programs and have business discussions and all kinds of social interaction. I have never studied critical thinking. I believe that a majority of people who speak other languages at this level have had no instruction in critical thinking. I still would like to know why it is only English teachers who feel that they are required to, and qualified to, teach critical thinking.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Lynne Wilkins <programs at englishcenter.edu<mailto:programs at englishcenter.edu>> wrote:
Hello
I'm a list lurker but think that Steve Kaufmann has posed a really interesting question about 'critical thinking' and different languages. I'm going to continue to think about this topic but my first response is that if you're learning a language in order to live and work and perhaps study in the country that uses that language, then you need as much fluency in that language as possible and that includes critical thinking. If you're learning the language for travel and some basic social interactions, then I agree that there's little reason to learn how to think critically in that second or third language.

Thanks for an interesting discussion and exchange of ideas.
Best regards,
Lynne



Lynne Wilkins, Associate Director for Programs

Director, Corporate Training for Industry
The English Center

66 Franklin Street, Oakland, CA 94607-3734

programs at englishcenter.edu<mailto:programs at englishcenter.edu>

www.englishcenter.edu<http://www.englishcenter.edu/>

(510) 836-6700, ext. 105


-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov>] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:48 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4628] Re: computers for families programs+learnerempowerment
I am curious to know why teachers of ESL feel that they should teach critical thinking. I do not think that teachers of Spanish, French, Chinese or Russian, for example, feel that this is a part of their task. Is there something different about learning English?


Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com<http://www.thelinguist.blogs.com/>
www.lingq.com<http://www.lingq.com/>
604-922-8514

----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov<mailto:EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com<mailto:steve at thelinguist.com>



--
Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com<http://www.thelinguist.blogs.com/>
www.lingq.com<http://www.lingq.com/>
604-922-8514

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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:21:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4666] Re: computers for families
    programs+learnerempowerment
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <781333.22496.qm at web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Andrea, I, too, don't agree with, nor have ever understood the?H/LO thinking skills/competencies. One 'level'?that's supposedly introductory and thus '"lower order" would ramp up at the introductory level of a higher leve course. I think of the Bloom's Taxonomy as a spiral rather than a pyramid.
?Bonnie Odiorne, Ph.D. Director, Writing Center Adjunct Professor of English, French, First Year Transitions, Day Division and ADP
Post University, Waterbury, CT 




________________________________
From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:41:35 PM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4648] Re: computers for families programs+learnerempowerment

Let me speak for my experience. 

My Thai student is following along an educational path somewhat like my own, therefore, I am qualified to help her with critical thinking about her work. ?I have done this with many students. ?I know a lot of the material, and I am ahead in some areas. The Thai student also utilized the TA's and the professors.

For an immigrant student, learning about language in the United States, and politics in the United States, learning about campaign contributions and how to get to them on the web can be called critical thinking. ?How people get and keep power is pertinent anywhere you end up on the earth's surface. ?You have to probe and go beneath the surface.

Now, as to the jargon that goes along with critical thinking: ?there is a lot of jargon and it makes me want to pull out my hair. ?"Higher order thinking skills" is one string that irks me--can someone say what this means? ?Give an example?

We are talking here about many different types of students, with different backgrounds and reasons for seeking more language knowledge.

Andrea



On Jul 29, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:

I am a little confused by all of this. Are the learners educated in their L1 and pursuing academic studies in the US, as Andrea suggests? I that case I think that it is not their English coach that should teach them critical thinking. This is something that they will learn from their various courses, if their English skills are good enough. So I would focus on language. Finding out who contributes what to electoral campaigns is irrelevant to academic pursuits.

>

>Are the learners unschooled people like those folks from Appalachia, as Glenda says? If so I think there are many things to learn before critical thinking enters the equation. Again, the ability to read will really help them access information about blood types and DNA and other facts of life.

>

>Is critical thinking really about helping non-native speakers navigate American ways of thinking as MaryAnn says? Do teachers really not judge these other ways of thinking? 

>

>What if the roles were reversed and MaryAnn were studying in a society were the norm was not to question the views of authority figures, especially as a woman? Would she conform to that cultural norm as part of learning the language? Or would she still try to be who she was, based on her accumulated cultural background and experience? Would she not just concentrate on the language, and although aware of the different norms in that society,? cling to her own belief system? Would she not resent a language teacher telling her how to think?

>

>When I tell people outside this listserve that English and literacy teachers see their role as one of teaching critical thinking, higher level thinking and effecting social change, most listeners are appalled. I am not saying that their view is correct, but here I hear very few voices here to challenge the prevailing ideology, which suggests to me that there is not very much critical thinking taking place. Is no one here just interested in improving the learners' language skills?

>

>

>

>-- 

>Steve Kaufmann

>www.thelinguist.blogs.com

>www.lingq.com

>604-922-8514

>

>----------------------------------------------------

>National Institute for Literacy

>Adult English Language Learners mailing list

>EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov

>To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage

>Email delivered to andreawilder at comcast.net

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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:35:27 -1000
From: "Michael A. Gyori" <mgyori at mauilanguage.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4667] Re: critical thinking
To: "'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'"
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <COL117-DS635883956AB16DD40864EB0120 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Greetings Alisa, Kearney and all,



I think there is a real misunderstanding in some of today?s posts about the application of ?critical thinking? in education.   It is a cognitive process as in, for example, ?critical thinking skills? with reference to measures of reading comprehension of subsurface text features (i.e., implicit vs. explicit) that rely on analyzing, synthesizing, and inferring from information in it. 



Critical thinking as a philosophical construct is something very different and usually correlates with sociopolitical stances.



It is really important that we all share a similar understanding of the term; if not, concerns about the imposition of value systems onto our students really can and does become an issue, as your post below exhibits.



Let?s avoid a semantic breakdown.  I believe Alisa?s post is in line with what is and should be discussed here. 



Michael







world10



Michael A. Gyori, M.A. TESOL

Owner-Teacher

Maui International Language School

Phone 808.205.2101 (U.S.A.)

Fax 808.891.2237 (U.S.A.)

E-mail mgyori at mauilanguage.com

Website www.mauilanguage.com









From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Kearney Lykins
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:08 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4657] Re: critical thinking



Alisa,



It seems to me that the formal discipline that most directly engages in the study of critical thinking is philsophy. 



Like Steve, when I have shared with non-subscribers that most literacy teachers on this listserve see their role as critical thinking specialists and agents for social change, they are shocked and yes, appalled.  Would that English teachers teach English.





Regards,



Kearney






Kearney_Lykins at yahoo.com



C: (614) 787-2202

H: (614) 760-1407





  _____  

From: "Povenmire, Alisa" <apovenmire at necc.mass.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:41:23 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4647] Re: critical thinking

Perhaps what we do is not teach critical thinking per se, but instead teach language in such a way as to require students to respond critically and to use language constructs that reflect their thoughts- rather than just rote learning.  I encourage my teachers to incorporate critical thinking into their curricula in order to draw out richer and more thoughtful language from their students.  When I say ?incorporate critical thinking?, I mean activity such as persuasive essays, reflective journals, verbal critiques, debates, etc.  I encourage teachers to push students to use more language by asking them why? How? Tell me more.  Anyone is qualified to do this.



Is there another, more formal, discipline of ?critical thinking?? 





Alisa Vlahakis Povenmire

ESOL Coordinator/Counselor

Adult Literacy and Transition Programs

Northern Essex Community College, Extension Campus

78 Amesbury Street

Lawrence, MA 01840-1312

<mailto:apovenmire at necc.mass.edu> apovenmire at necc.mass.edu

978-738-7623





From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:41 AM
To: programs at englishcenter.edu; The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4638] Re: learnerempowerment



I am fluent and conduct business in a number of languages. This means that I can read books, newspapers, and listen to radio programs and have business discussions and all kinds of social interaction. I have never studied critical thinking. I believe that a majority of people who speak other languages at this level have had no instruction in critical thinking. I still would like to know why it is only English teachers who feel that they are required to, and qualified to, teach critical thinking.

On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Lynne Wilkins <programs at englishcenter.edu> wrote:

Hello

I'm a list lurker but think that Steve Kaufmann has posed a really interesting question about 'critical thinking' and different languages. I'm going to continue to think about this topic but my first response is that if you're learning a language in order to live and work and perhaps study in the country that uses that language, then you need as much fluency in that language as possible and that includes critical thinking. If you're learning the language for travel and some basic social interactions, then I agree that there's little reason to learn how to think critically in that second or third language. 



Thanks for an interesting discussion and exchange of ideas.

Best regards,

Lynne





Lynne Wilkins, Associate Director for Programs

Director, Corporate Training for Industry
The English Center 

66 Franklin Street, Oakland, CA 94607-3734

programs at englishcenter.edu

www.englishcenter.edu <http://www.englishcenter.edu/> 

(510) 836-6700, ext. 105



-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 8:48 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4628] Re: computers for families programs+learnerempowerment

I am curious to know why teachers of ESL feel that they should teach critical thinking. I do not think that teachers of Spanish, French, Chinese or Russian, for example, feel that this is a part of their task. Is there something different about learning English?


Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com <http://www.thelinguist.blogs.com/> 
www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/> 
604-922-8514


----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com




-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com <http://www.thelinguist.blogs.com/> 
www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/> 
604-922-8514



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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4668]  Critical Thinking Skills for
    clarification
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <799176.57906.qm at web81908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

My point, for clarification, is NOT that all ESL students are uneducated.? That almost seems like a deliberate misinterpretation.? Please keep in mind that we are supposed to express differing opinions - respectfully.?? 
?
To?restate, ?my point is that ESL students may not have had the opportunity to be scaffolded into thinking critically through whatever education they received, none or even college level.? While many students (especially those in higher ed ESL program) may have learned critical skills, the education systems of many countries do not incorporate these skills, depending more on rote memorization and teacher-centered approaches that do not require students to draw their own conclusion or question (gasp) the authority of the teacher and/or text.? Critical thinking skills are no more automatic than learning to drive or learning to use a computer.? Someone taught each one of us, whether we realize it or not.
?
In addition, getting information is not the same as thinking critically.? You can have all the information available and still not be able to critically analyze what you have and glean what you need or make inferences from that information.? 
?
I think this will be another one of those issues where we will have?to agree to disagree.?SO I'm going to bow out of this discussion from here on out.
?
?

Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD

ESL Instructor
Austin Learning Academy
(512) 841-4777 - classroom
(512) 789-5131 - mobile
?

--- On Wed, 7/29/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:


From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 4645] Re: computers for families programs+learnerempowerment
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009, 12:20 PM


I am a little confused by all of this. Are the learners educated in their L1 and pursuing academic studies in the US, as Andrea suggests? I that case I think that it is not their English coach that should teach them critical thinking. This is something that they will learn from their various courses, if their English skills are good enough. So I would focus on language. Finding out who contributes what to electoral campaigns is irrelevant to academic pursuits.

Are the learners unschooled people like those folks from Appalachia, as Glenda says? If so I think there are many things to learn before critical thinking enters the equation. Again, the ability to read will really help them access information about blood types and DNA and other facts of life.

Is critical thinking really about helping non-native speakers navigate American ways of thinking as MaryAnn says? Do teachers really not judge these other ways of thinking? 

What if the roles were reversed and MaryAnn were studying in a society were the norm was not to question the views of authority figures, especially as a woman? Would she conform to that cultural norm as part of learning the language? Or would she still try to be who she was, based on her accumulated cultural background and experience? Would she not just concentrate on the language, and although aware of the different norms in that society,? cling to her own belief system? Would she not resent a language teacher telling her how to think?

When I tell people outside this listserve that English and literacy teachers see their role as one of teaching critical thinking, higher level thinking and effecting social change, most listeners are appalled. I am not saying that their view is correct, but here I hear very few voices here to challenge the prevailing ideology, which suggests to me that there is not very much critical thinking taking place. Is no one here just interested in improving the learners' language skills?



-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.thelinguist.blogs.com
www.lingq.com
604-922-8514

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