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[EnglishLanguage 3966] Re: past progressive
Steinbacher Mikal
Mikal.Steinbacher at lwtc.eduMon Mar 2 14:11:47 EST 2009
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Here ya go!
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College
________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Amy Metcalfe
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:06 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3965] Re: past progressive
I would love to see it. I think this is such a great way for students to learn!
Amy (Allen) Metcalfe
Director of Integrated
Basic Education Skills Training (IBEST)
Pierce College District
9401 Farwest Dr. SW
Lakewood, WA 98498
(253) 964-6447
ametcalfe at pierce.ctc.edu
________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steinbacher Mikal
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:53 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 3962] Re: past progressive
I've developed a tracking form and a coordinating editing symbol sheet if you'd like it.
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College
________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of robinschwarz1 at aol.com
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 8:51 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3962] Re: past progressive
Mikal--this is a very interesting and clearly useful technique--(having students track their "favorite" mistakes)-- I will suggest this to teachers I work with-- Great idea! Robin Lovrien Schwarz
-----Original Message-----
From: Steinbacher Mikal <Mikal.Steinbacher at lwtc.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 9:10 am
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3961] Re: past progressive
I use my online students' writing to reinforce the grammar they've studied and
practiced with grammar exercises.
I spend a lot of time when correcting their writing, giving them a explanation
of each correction with the "grammar and structure rule". This real time
practice coupled with the lessons they've completed for the class, seems to help
cement the "rules". I also encourage them to track the type of writing errors
they make and then when they are editing their work, to look for their 'favorite
mistakes". Those who do that traditionally improve more than those who don't.
I find that rules without real life use, don't stick very long. Like me with
computer skills, ESL learners need to be taught and then practice, practice,
practice to master the language.
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College
________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Glenda Lynn Rose
Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 3:16 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3959] Re: past progressive
I concur, Robin. I have had students tell me their previous English teachers
told them some very interesting rules. I should have been collecting them!
Because I use a bilingual approach, I talk about grammar with my students. I
explain that although the terms we use are probably never going to be needed
outside of the classroom (could I have one noun with an adjective of origin and
a side of prepositional phrases), because we use them inside the classroom from
time to time to talk about the language, we need to have the same understanding.
I also make sure they know I do not expect them to remember these terms even in
Spanish from their primary days, so if I fail to explain what the term means and
they are unsure, to please ask me.
Good examples are priceless, which is why I like the Azar series...lots of
examples there.
One of my high advanced students and I were talking about explicit grammar
practice/instruction yesterday. Between the two of us, we came to the
conclusion that grammar practice is like the drills during soccer
practice....useful for learning the skills for the game, but in no way as
exciting as the game itself (communicating) or in any way capable of replacing
experience gained through playing in live games.
Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD
Instructor,
Austin Learning Academy
841-4777
--- On Fri, 2/27/09, robinschwarz1 at aol.com <robinschwarz1 at aol.com> wrote:
From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com <robinschwarz1 at aol.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3958] Re: past progressive
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:19 PM
NIcely and succinctly put, Linda. The past continuous is easily over used
by students as a regular past tense, so at some point clarification of its use
is necessary. It is unique, in my experience in demanding a clear time location
in the past, which is why students end up using it incorrectly. They tend to
say, Yesterday, I was taking a shower. As someone, (was it Martin) pointed
out, without the context of knowing why the shower was intererrupted or a more
specific time or what else was happening, native speakers would not use it.
That we were not, as native speakers, taught the parameters of a tense is not
unusual since we have learned it through exposure in reading and in speech.
That is what grammar learning in a new language is all about-- being conscious
of grammar that otherwise is unconscious.
Don't get me wrong, though. I am not a big advocate of huge amounts of
direct instruction in grammar for ESOL learners. In fact, I think grammar
instruction often gets in the way of teaching and learning for many students,
especially those with low education levels who do not have comparable knowledge
in first language to make sense of grammar instruction. However, as Linda so
nicely points out, some learners want it very much, whether or not it improves
other skills in English, and some learners MUST have it to pass English classes
or take the TOEFL skillfully, to say nothing of making sense of professors'
feedback on their writing assignments!
Also, doing what I do--focusing on what causes ESOL learners to struggle-- I
often see that learners have been completely confused by incompetent instruction
in grammar by teachers who, as someone pointed out, were just giving opinions on
it or teaching what they thought it was. So here is a plea: If you teach
grammar or are called on to explain it by a curious or eager student, grab for a
really good grammar book ( such as Azar) to give your answer if you do not know
grammar really well.
Robin Lovrien Schwarz
-----Original Message-----
From: selover200 at comcast.net
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 1:46 pm
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3957] Re: past progressive
Hello to all-
Regarding grammar terms and rules-
I do tell students what the grammar terms are and the names of the verb
tenses are so that later, when I want to explain some rules or refer to sentence
structure, they will know the vocabulary of grammar.
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Since I have beginners, I give them examples rather than rules, with a
brief description of the sentence structure, because I am giving them a pattern
to follow. That is all that they are ready to absorb at this stage. I also
encourage them to use the reference pages with the verb tables when they have
questions of usage.
However, a more advanced student, or one who has studied English in formal
classes in their own country, will ask you for the rules. An advanced student,
especially someone who has to do a lot of writing for college or business, will
find grammar rules very useful. We just need to be sure that the rules have good
examples of the usage in context.
Peace,
Linda Selover
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org>
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:20:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3952] Re: past progressive
Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness)
You've hi t the nail on the head, Steve. Nobody in their right mind utilizes
grammatical rules at the same time they are communicating. Only when we notice a
problem will we access our grammatical "brain" to analyze the message.
However, I believe that we as native speakers have that "reference library"
in our brain, and refer to it automatically to decode a message. Our students do
not have that luxury. We must provide them with the opportunity to develop
their own reference library. An example of this might be: "I will meet you at."
You know, having studied English, possibly from birth, that we need more
information to complete the idea. We expect either a time or a place to follow.
What I try to do is to get my students to explicitly answer the question "When?"
every time they use a verb, thus completing the "idea" of the verb.
How do I do this? I feel by constantly and consistently linking the
vocabulary with its concise grammatical idea while reading/listening/speaking/writing,
we can allow our students to "notice" the relationship on their own,
intrinsically. It is only through contextual examples can they develop this. For
example, when my students use the present s imple, I ask them when is the action
happening. By repeating (by me and the students) the words "every day" and
making a circular motion with my hand, I reinforce the relationship between the
form (spelling/word order) and the grammatical meaning. I do this day after day,
month after month. If their idea wasn't something that happened every day ("I go
to doctor today.") then I would model the correct form and explain why ("I am
going to the doctor today/I am going to go to the doctor today").
One thing I do NOT do is memorization. I never stress the name of the forms
(although I do repeat them every time). I DO stress the usage: which words
(auxiliaries) go with which verb forms/spellings to create which temporal ideas.
Just my two-cents worth!
Martin E. Senger
Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie, Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL Special Interest Group
Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?>
<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?> ?> ] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:24 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3950] Re: past progressive
As a language learner, I find it difficult to absorb explanations of the
"five ways that the subjunctive is used " or such like. I need to see these
patterns repeatedly in context, read them, hear them and ev entually try using
them. Gradually they start to become a part of my language.
It is difficult to understand these explanations let alone remember them.
Yet, a familiarity with these rules does help me notice what is happening in the
language. So my question to Martin was, how does he use this list. How much of
this can be effectively explained? Can the learner absorb it? How is the
explanation spaced out over time? How does the learner reach the point where he
or she no longer needs to refer to this list. Kind of like Zhuangzi and the
parable of the fish-net. Once you have caught the fish you no longer need the
fish net.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/> <http://www.lingq.com/>
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:34 AM, <Sandees32605 at aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 2/26/2009 9:45:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
steve at thelinguist.com writes:
As a native speaker I do not think about the ways in which the
progressive is used.
=0 A
Again, may I suggest that teachers at least glance at a good grammar text
for non- learners and/or purchase at least one reputable reference for their own
use?
Wouldn't that be a little more useful than just a rehash of personal opinion
and prejudices?
Just a thought.
Best,
Sue Sandeen
ESOL Gainesville, Fla
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