Here ya go!  
 
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College

________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Amy Metcalfe
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 10:06 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3965] Re: past progressive


I would love to see it.  I think this is such a great way for students to learn!
 
Amy (Allen) Metcalfe 
Director of Integrated 
Basic Education Skills Training (IBEST) 
Pierce College District 
9401 Farwest Dr. SW 
Lakewood, WA 98498 
(253) 964-6447 
ametcalfe at pierce.ctc.edu 
 
 
________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steinbacher Mikal
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 9:53 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 3962] Re: past progressive
 
I've developed a tracking form and a coordinating editing symbol sheet if you'd like it.
 
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College
 
________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of robinschwarz1 at aol.com
Sent: Mon 3/2/2009 8:51 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3962] Re: past progressive
Mikal--this is a very interesting and clearly useful technique--(having students track their "favorite" mistakes)-- I will suggest this to teachers I work with-- Great idea!  Robin Lovrien Schwarz
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Steinbacher Mikal <Mikal.Steinbacher at lwtc.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 9:10 am
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3961] Re: past progressive
I use my online students' writing to reinforce the grammar they've studied and 




practiced with grammar exercises.




I spend a lot of time when correcting their writing, giving them a explanation 




of each correction with the "grammar and structure rule".  This real time 




practice coupled with the lessons they've completed for the class, seems to help 




cement the "rules". I also encourage them to track the type of writing errors 




they make and then when they are editing their work, to look for their 'favorite 




mistakes".  Those who do that traditionally improve more than those who don't.  




I find that rules without real life use, don't stick very long.  Like me with 




computer skills, ESL learners need to be taught and then practice, practice, 




practice to master the language.




 




 




Mikal Steinbacher




Instructor, ABE/ESL/English




Lake Washington Technical College









________________________________









From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Glenda Lynn Rose




Sent: Sat 2/28/2009 3:16 PM




To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List




Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3959] Re: past progressive














I concur, Robin.  I have had students tell me their previous English teachers 




told them some very interesting rules.  I should have been collecting them!




 




Because I use a bilingual approach, I talk about grammar with my students.  I 




explain that although the terms we use are probably never going to be needed 




outside of the classroom (could I have one noun with an adjective of origin and 




a side of prepositional phrases), because we use them inside the classroom from 




time to time to talk about the language, we need to have the same understanding.  




I also make sure they know I do not expect them to remember these terms even in 




Spanish from their primary days, so if I fail to explain what the term means and 




they are unsure, to please ask me.   




 




Good examples are priceless, which is why I like the Azar series...lots of 




examples there.




 




One of my high advanced students and I were talking about explicit grammar 




practice/instruction yesterday.  Between the two of us, we came to the 




conclusion that grammar practice is like the drills during soccer 




practice....useful for learning the skills for the game, but in no way as 




exciting as the game itself (communicating) or in any way capable of replacing 




experience gained through playing in live games.









Grace and Peace!




Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD









Instructor, 




Austin Learning Academy




841-4777




 














--- On Fri, 2/27/09, robinschwarz1 at aol.com <robinschwarz1 at aol.com> wrote:














    From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com <robinschwarz1 at aol.com>




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3958] Re: past progressive




    To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov




    Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 8:19 PM




    




    




    NIcely and succinctly put, Linda.  The past continuous is easily over used 




by students as a regular past tense, so at some point clarification of its use 




is necessary.  It is unique, in my experience in demanding a clear time location 




in the past, which is why students end up using it incorrectly.  They tend to 




say,  Yesterday, I was taking a shower.    As someone, (was it Martin) pointed 




out, without the context of knowing why the shower was intererrupted or a more 




specific time or what else was happening, native speakers would not use it.   




That we were not, as native speakers, taught the parameters of a tense is not 




unusual since we have learned it through exposure in reading and in speech.   




That is what grammar learning in a new language is all about-- being conscious 




of grammar that otherwise is unconscious.   




    




    Don't get me wrong, though.   I am not a big advocate of huge amounts of 




direct instruction in grammar for ESOL learners. In fact, I think grammar 




instruction often gets in the way of teaching and learning for many students, 




especially those with low education levels who do not have comparable knowledge 




in first language to make sense of grammar instruction.   However, as Linda so 




nicely points out, some learners want it very much, whether or not it improves 




other skills in English, and some learners MUST have it to pass English classes 




or take the TOEFL skillfully, to say nothing of making sense of professors' 




feedback on their writing assignments!  




    




    Also, doing what I do--focusing on what causes ESOL learners to struggle-- I 




often see that learners have been completely confused by incompetent instruction 




in grammar by teachers who, as someone pointed out, were just giving opinions on 




it or teaching what they thought it was.  So here is a plea:  If you teach 




grammar or are called on to explain it by a curious or eager student, grab for a 




really good grammar book ( such as Azar) to give your answer if you do not know 




grammar really well.   




    




    Robin Lovrien Schwarz 




    














    -----Original Message-----




    From: selover200 at comcast.net




    To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>




    Sent: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 1:46 pm




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3957] Re: past progressive




    




    




    Hello to all- 









    Regarding grammar terms and rules-









    I do tell students what the grammar terms are and the names of the verb 




tenses are so that later, when I want to explain some rules or refer to sentence 




structure, they will know the vocabulary of grammar. 




    < br class="webkit-block-placeholder">




     Since I have beginners, I give them examples rather than rules, with a 




brief description of the sentence structure, because I am giving them a pattern 




to follow. That is all that they are ready to absorb at this stage. I also 




encourage them to use the reference pages with the verb tables when they have 




questions of usage. 









    However, a more advanced student, or one who has studied English in formal 




classes in their own country, will ask you for the rules. An advanced student, 




especially someone who has to do a lot of writing for college or business, will 




find grammar rules very useful. We just need to be sure that the rules have good 




examples of the usage in context. 









    Peace, 




    Linda Selover









    ----- Original Message -----




    From: "Martin Senger" <MSenger at GECAC.org>




    To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" 




<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>




    Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 10:20:41 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3952] Re: past progressive




    




    




    Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness)




     




    You've hi t the nail on the head, Steve. Nobody in their right mind utilizes 




grammatical rules at the same time they are communicating. Only when we notice a 




problem will we access our grammatical "brain" to analyze the message.




     




    However, I believe that we as native speakers have that "reference library" 




in our brain, and refer to it automatically to decode a message. Our students do 




not have that luxury.  We must provide them with the opportunity to develop 




their own reference library. An example of this might be: "I will meet you at." 




You know, having studied English, possibly from birth, that we need more 




information to complete the idea. We expect either a time or a place to follow. 




What I try to do is to get my students to explicitly answer the question "When?" 




every time they use a verb, thus completing the "idea" of the verb.




     




    How do I do this? I feel by constantly and consistently linking the 




vocabulary with its concise grammatical idea while reading/listening/speaking/writing, 




we can allow our students to "notice" the relationship on their own, 




intrinsically. It is only through contextual examples can they develop this. For 




example, when my students use the present s imple, I ask them when is the action 




happening. By repeating (by me and the students) the words "every day" and 




making a circular motion with my hand, I reinforce the relationship between the 




form (spelling/word order) and the grammatical meaning. I do this day after day, 




month after month. If their idea wasn't something that happened every day ("I go 




to doctor today.") then I would model the correct form and explain why ("I am 




going to the doctor today/I am going to go to the doctor today").




     




    One thing I do NOT do is memorization. I never stress the name of the forms 




(although I do repeat them every time). I DO stress the usage: which words 




(auxiliaries) go with which verb forms/spellings to create which temporal ideas.




     




    Just my two-cents worth!




     




    Martin E. Senger




    Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,




    G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center




    Erie, Pa.




    Co-Director,




    ESL Special Interest Group




    Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)




     




    From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?>  




<mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov <mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov?> ?> ] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann




    Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:24 AM




    To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List




    Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3950] Re: past progressive




     




    As a language learner, I find it difficult to absorb explanations of the 




"five ways that the subjunctive is used " or such like. I need to see these 




patterns repeatedly in context, read them, hear them and ev entually try using 




them. Gradually they start to become a part of my language.




    




    It is difficult to understand these explanations let alone remember them. 




Yet, a familiarity with these rules does help me notice what is happening in the 




language. So my question to Martin was, how does he use this list. How much of 




this can be effectively explained? Can the learner absorb it? How is the 




explanation spaced out over time? How does the learner reach the point where he 




or she no longer needs to refer to this list. Kind of like Zhuangzi and the 




parable of the fish-net. Once you have caught the fish you no longer need the 




fish net.




    




    Steve Kaufmann




    www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/>  <http://www.lingq.com/> 




    On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 7:34 AM, <Sandees32605 at aol.com> wrote:




    In a message dated 2/26/2009 9:45:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, 




steve at thelinguist.com writes:









        As a native speaker I do not think about the ways in which the 




progressive is used. 




        =0 A 









    Again, may I suggest that teachers at least glance at a good grammar text 




for non- learners and/or purchase at least one reputable reference for their own 




use?




     




    Wouldn't that be a little more useful than just a rehash of personal opinion 




and prejudices?  




     




    Just a thought.




     




    Best,




    Sue Sandeen




    ESOL Gainesville, Fla




    




    




    




    




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