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[EnglishLanguage 3510] Motivation in Learning
Rosemary Dill
rhdill at yahoo.comMon Jan 19 16:19:40 EST 2009
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One of the first things I ask my ESL 1 and ESL 2 students every semester is "Why are you here?" Of course their first reply is that they want to improve their English. I then tell them they have to have a more definite goal if they want the class to work for them. Students who have specific goals ( a job, a job promotion, communicating with their doctor, etc) will do better than those with a nebulous goal.
Rosemary
--- On Mon, 1/19/09, englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote:
From: englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov>
Subject: EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 40, Issue 36
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 9:47 AM
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of EnglishLanguage digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. [EnglishLanguage 3487] Re: oral vs reading traditions
(Steve Kaufmann)
2. [EnglishLanguage 3488] Re: Motivation in language learning
(Steve Kaufmann)
3. [EnglishLanguage 3489] Re: Motivation in language learning
(kolgin at glendale.edu)
4. [EnglishLanguage 3490] Re: Motivation in language learning
(Steinbacher Mikal)
5. [EnglishLanguage 3491] Re: oral vs reading traditions
(cece valentine)
6. [EnglishLanguage 3492] Re: Motivation in language learning
(cece valentine)
7. [EnglishLanguage 3493] Re: oral vs reading traditions
(cece valentine)
8. [EnglishLanguage 3494] Re: Motivation in language learning
(Terry Pruett-Said)
9. [EnglishLanguage 3495] Re: oral vs reading traditions
(Tom Zurinskas)
10. [EnglishLanguage 3496] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and
K-12ESL (IHABRAMSON at aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:10:37 -0800
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3487] Re: oral vs reading traditions
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<f1a6e820901180810i6aa7ac02wdb5c1605778334b7 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I fail to see the benefit of teaching children truespel. I would strongly
oppose it. Children would still have to learn how to spell in order to
communicate in writing and in order to read. Every language has its
difficulty as well as junk code that is unnecessary.
Why not get rid of articles in English and the complicated tenses while we
are at ? Other languages do fine without them. Let's drop gender and the
subjunctive in various European languages. They serve no purpose and are
hard to remember, and make the learning of cases almost impossible. Why not
combine French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese into one
"interlingua" so
that foreigners would only have to learn one Romance language to talk to all
of these people. Let's get rid of of verb aspects in Russian, other
languages do not need them. Why not write Chinese in the Roman alphabet so
it is easier for foreigners?
No. Languages are what they are. They evolve over time. They are living
natural human phenomena. I fail to see any useful purpose to truespel. Learn
to spell or use a spell checker.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:20:35 -0800
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3488] Re: Motivation in language learning
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<f1a6e820901180820l14643392y48f7ac604ceec770 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My experience with ESL learners in Vancouver is that very few put in the
significant effort outside the classroom that is required to achieve a major
improvement. Languages are not learned in class. They are not learned doing
homework assignments. They are learned through a massive interaction with
the language, vast amounts of listening and reading, and eventually
speaking.
Most ESL students I have met, and heard teachers complain about, are
unwilling to do this. They may be prepared to do tasks in class, and to do
their homework. Most then spend the rest of their lives in their native
language, with their own community, watching videos and TV in their native
language etc. This is not going to do it. They know it and are unwilling to
change.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:27:45 -0800 (PST)
From: kolgin at glendale.edu
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3489] Re: Motivation in language learning
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Cc: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<1631.69.231.205.85.1232296065.squirrel at webmail.glendale.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> I have noticed several categories of motivation throughout the years. A
student doesn?t always fall into one category only but may exhibit
qualities of a couple of categories. The first category, the
transitional student generally comes to school with prior experience
from an educational institution. This student obtains competence for
that level and moves to the next level. The second category, the
dependent student mostly relies on others in class. They need constant
reassurance from their peers in their L1. Even though they are fully
competent, they find someone to depend upon for reassurance. The third
category, a learned helpless student has learned to get others to do his
work. Because of fear and avoidance of failure, a learned helpless
student will rarely do his own work. The fourth category, the day care
student (generally a senior citizen) has been left by a son or daughter.
They usually are content within their community and are the least
motivated. The last category, the learning disabled student is rare.
I don?t pigeonhole students into these categories but when I observe
their motivation to fall into one of the categories, I will use a little
i+1. Thanks Vygotsky. By the way, this is for literacy level classes.
Kirk Olgin
Glendale College
I wouldn't even? venture a guess as to the percentage who go on with
> serious study.? The adult learner will only put as much effort as he/she
> perceives is necessary to meet "their" needs.? This is part of
being
> adult.? The older person without family obligations might be perceived as
> putting more serious study time in, but the parent with children, job
> and??adjustment issues will only at best follow curriculum to meet
> citizenship goals and? to enhance job opportunities.? Time for extended
> study in a new language under those conditions is precious.
> ?
> carolyn valentine
> cgv757 at yahoo.com
> --- On Sat, 1/17/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3481] Motivation in language learning
> To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
> <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 12:13 PM
>
>
> ?A teacher of English in Japan had this to say;
>
> "I have been running into this problem for 5 years now. Out of about
300
> people I have taught, I have about 2-3 who have put any real effort to
> improve their language ability. "
>
> I know from experience that meaningful progress in language learning, in
> other words, significant self-transformation into a person who speaks
> another language fluently, takes a lot of effort and commitment, mostly
> one one's own, outside the classroom. It has also been my experience
that
> the percentage of people who are prepared to put in the effort required is
> very small. It may be around 1%.
>
> So in the end, language class achieves certain social goals, for both
> learners and teachers, but does not really bring about any breakthrough in
> language skills, for all but a tiny minority.
>
> Any comments?
>
> Steve Kaufmann
> www.lingq.com
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
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>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:24:18 -0800
From: "Steinbacher Mikal" <Mikal.Steinbacher at lwtc.edu>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3490] Re: Motivation in language learning
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
<9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8E0AAA685C at LUXOR.campus.lwtc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I've never been clear about the difference between EFL and ESL, but if
the difference is EFL is taught in the native country, and ESL in the second
language country (which makes sense), then you're right! If one want's
to be successful in one's new country, one quickly discovers that the
languague used in the new country is essential. Those who want to be successful
in the business world have even a bigger stake in learning the language of the
land.
I teach in a technical college where many students go into vocational
classes, and having good English skills is critical. The texts are written for
English speakers, much of the vocabulary is unique to the field, and often the
instructors have no ESL training. I'm currently team teaching a mechanic
course with a transportation instructor. I'm there to provide English
support to ESL students in the class and some native English speakers who need
help too! My ESL students are highly motiviated to learn English.
Mikal Steinbacher
Instructor, ABE/ESL/English
Lake Washington Technical College
________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Glenda Lynn Rose
Sent: Sat 1/17/2009 4:12 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3484] Re: Motivation in language learning
I would say that this may be one of the areas that distinguishes ESL from EFL.
It is highly unusual for me to have an unmotivated student. Some have to leave
the program for a while for personal reasons, but they almost always return as
soon as they are able. The sacrifice significant amounts of time and energy
learning English, although understanding my students' lives, I make it
pefectly clear that "homework" may be done at the following class
period if there is not time to do it at home - without any fear of negative
consequences (a difference between adult ed ESL and college level, I suspect).
Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD
Instuctor,
Austin Learning Academy
841-4777
--- On Sat, 1/17/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3481] Motivation in language learning
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 11:13 AM
A teacher of English in Japan had this to say;
"I have been running into this problem for 5 years now. Out of about 300
people I have taught, I have about 2-3 who have put any real effort to improve
their language ability. "
I know from experience that meaningful progress in language learning, in other
words, significant self-transformation into a person who speaks another language
fluently, takes a lot of effort and commitment, mostly one one's own,
outside the classroom. It has also been my experience that the percentage of
people who are prepared to put in the effort required is very small. It may be
around 1%.
So in the end, language class achieves certain social goals, for both learners
and teachers, but does not really bring about any breakthrough in language
skills, for all but a tiny minority.
Any comments?
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com <http://www.lingq.com/>
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to glyndalin at yahoo.com
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:51:17 -0800 (PST)
From: cece valentine <cgv757 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3491] Re: oral vs reading traditions
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <62544.11827.qm at web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
truespel is easy to read, like when my beginning adult writers send me notes!!?
I don't think I would even teachthis to anyone, however.? It would take time
and energy from actual teaching of English .
?
c valentine
cgv757 at yahoo.com
--- On Sat, 1/17/09, Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3486] Re: oral vs reading traditions
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Date: Saturday, January 17, 2009, 7:40 PM
All you need to read truespel is to remember 1. the way the 40 sounds of
Enlgish are spelled phonetically, 2. That stress is on the first syllable or
after a double consonant (but for thh which is doubled as tthh), and 3. an
apostrophe stands for a glottal stop or spacer between two vowels in a row.?
That's it.? It's learnable in 15 seconds by native speakers, and takes
only a few hours for good familiarity.
The truespel advancements are that it is copy pastable and spreadsheet
friendly.? It also retains punctuation norms and capitalization norms.? No other
phonetic notation does this.?
Kids pick up a consistent user friendly phonetic notation easily.? see
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~ozideas/wgreenref.htm
Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
Learn truespel in 15 minutes at http://drop.io/tzurinskas
________________________________
> Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:39:37 -0800
> From: steve at thelinguist.com
> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3480] Re: oral vs reading traditions
>
> The link you provided does not work. I found another link with a handy
converter to truespel and here is what it looks like.
>
> Thu ubjjektiv uv truespel iz tue
> pruvvied u kunssistint noettaeshin that ennaeboolz yue tue spel
> ukkordeeng tue thu soundz (or foeneemz) yue heer. Kaanvverslee, it
> ennaeboolz yue tue reed ulloud enee dieyulekt or laengwij speld in
> truespel, ie, az u tranzllaeshin gied. Fer this, Truespel iz
> faar simpler than enee uther rieteeng sistim or prununseeyyaeshin gied.
> Wun uv thu goelz uv thu Truespel Founddaeshin iz tue form u funnetik
anglocentric baesis fer speleeng, lerneeng, and anuliezeeng moest uv thu maejer
laengwijiz az reerritin in truespel.
>
> English is not the lingua franca of the world, it is just the most common
international language. It may maintain its dominance in certain sectors or
regions, and lose it in others. With the declining prestige and declining
relative influence of English speaking countries, I think it is inevitable that
the prestige of English will decline in favour of regional international
languages. Adopting truespel would, in my view, diminish its prestige and
further hasten its decline.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Tom Zurinskas> wrote:
>
>
>
> There is some data on the prevelance of English below.
>
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
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> English is the langauge of aviation. It's the language of 95% of
scientifice journals. It's the lingua franca of the world and always will
be. The reason is the need to communicate in one common language.
>
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>
>
> There is also a need for a phonetic guide that is keyboard friendly, email
friendly, and English friendly so it's usable by our elementary school
teachers to encourage phonemic awareness. I would say that very few schools in
USA use the phonetic notations in our dictionaries or IPA because those
notations are not English friendly. Truespel fills this void and paves the way
to integrating reading instruction, dictionaries and translations guides under
one method. This has never been done before. And its free.
>
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> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
>
> Learn truespel in 15 minutes at http://tinypaste. com/764f4
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> ________________________________
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>> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 20:06:07 -0800
>
>> From: steve at thelinguist.com
>
>> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3446] Re: oral vs reading traditions
>
>>
>
>> The position of English as lingua franca is no more secure than the
position of Greek in the Helenic Middle East, Sogdian Central Asia/China during
the Tang Dynasty , nor the role of French in Europe for two centuries prior to
the present dominance of English. The decline of the economic weight of the
Anglo-Saxon world will lead to more multilingualism. Learn regional languages.
If anyone is interested they can see my video on this subject and one where I
speak in 10 languages at youtube.
>
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>> The IPA has been around since 1886, and just like other attempts to
impose an artificial language or writing system or notational system, including
Esperanto and "truespel" etc. these things are irrelevant to most
people. A language is a natural pheonomeon and grows in influence in proportion
to the prestige of its culture. English is in decline. We are headed to a
lingustically multi-polar world, and we will deal with the natural writing
sytems that these languages have evolved naturally.
>
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>> Steve Kaufmann
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>> www.lingq.com
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>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Tom Zurinskas> wrote:
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>> Thanks Mike,
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>> Yes, we need new technology/methods for today's world. Regarding
English literacy there is one GIGANTIC issue not being addressed. English is the
lingua franca of the world. It's our language. One thing we desperately need
is a phonetic notation based on English, suitable for native English users,
suitable for computers, and suitable for teaching children phonemic awareness
(the key attribute of good readers - Stanovich 2000)
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>> HISTORY - The Initial International Phonetic Association (IPA)
notation of 1886 was always intended to teach language learners, but was never
English friendly and evolved into a notation that covers all language sounds. It
uses very strange symbols and is not computer friendly. In 1987, a few European
countries created a computer friendly version of the IPA notation called SAMPA
(Speech Assessment Methods Phonetic Alphabet). SAMPA is not suitable for English
not suitable for children, nor is it email or spreadsheet friendly as it should
be.
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>> Recognizing this problem, recent dictionaries have evolved various
phonetic notations; unfortunately, not keyboard or computer friendly. The media
and government use a work-around notation that looks like this: no-TAY-shin.
These approaches are useful but not standardized. They don't even have
names.
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>> There is only one phonetic notation that satisfies all criteria.
It's truespel. Like SAMPA, truespel was established in 1987. It's
English-based, using just the letters of the alphabet and most common English
forms to spell phonemes. It's email and spreadsheet friendly, capitalization
friendly, punctuation friendly, and simple enough to learn in 15 minutes for
adult teachers. And truespel is free.
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>> The English language is rewritten in truespel phonetics (American
accent). The free converter is present at truespel.com. An URL converter is
there as well which can change any internet site into phonetics. It's mature
and everywhere.
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>> Truespel can follow IBM's "Writing to Read" example for
teaching children to write with "phonemic awareness". At the same time
it can integrate dictionary phonetics and translation guide phonetics as well. A
version of the VOA beginner's dictionary is available with a truespel
phonetic guide where the VOA provided no guide at all. (See the truespel books 1
to 4)
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>> BOTTOM LINE - IBM's "Writing to Read" showed the way. It
was tested by ETS for 6,000 K-1 kids in the 80"s and showed how to achieve
early improvement. But it was way ahead of its time; when the internet was not
available, and computers were expensive. Unfortunately, it used some special
symbols. Truespel does not, yet it would help "phonemic awareness" and
word decoding in the same way IBM did. Also accent reduction and remedial
reading. I'd be glad to support any efforts to evaluate truespel for any
such applications.
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>> Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
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>> Learn truespel in 15 minutes at http://tinypaste.com/764f4
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>> ________________________________
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>> From: mtate at sbctc.edu
>
>> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
>
>> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:50:57 -0800
>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3406] Re: oral vs reading traditions
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>> Why do we expect that the technology around reading will endure when
no other technology has?
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>> I have a Chandler Price letterpress sitting in my garage that I used
to print chapbooks and broadsides on, but it's rare I bump into someone who
loves "real" printing. Of course, the Chandler Price is incredibly
modern next to a lithography stone.
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>> I'm not yet able to give up on film photography, but almost. I
came so close to buying a digital Nikon.
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>> I noticed that the digital picture frames were flying off the shelves,
so I think you'll find that they will come to replace the old-fashioned ones
which will become curiosities, and so it will be with the books at the
bookstore. We'll be able to find them for a while, but increasingly they
will be rarer, and at some point there won't be any new titles coming out.
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>> One of my co-worker's elderly father has a huge 8-track tape
library, and she says that he insists that it is coming back into fashion.
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>> I have a 1967 Ford 2 Stakeside truck, and I'm looking for a 1939
Ford 9N tractor.
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>> I think there would be something wrong with us if we didn't love
old things. But, love them though we might, there's always something new to
take their place.
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>> Michael Tate
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>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sandra (Sandy) Jensen
>
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>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 3:02 PM
>
>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3403] Re: oral vs reading traditions
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>> Michael, What about reading fiction for pleasure? The sheer volume of
fiction for sale at Barnes and Noble tells me that I am not the only one who
likes to curl up with a good book. I do not want my computer to read to me. I
want to control the speed at which I take in the ideas---rereading a
particularly amusing section, skimming a boring one. Do you think visual
learners like me will become extinct? Maybe, but I think it will take multiple
generations.
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>> Sandy Jensen
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>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Michael Tate
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>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:25 PM
>
>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3401] Re: oral vs reading traditions
>
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>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Steve,
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I think Star Trek had it right when Captain Kirk would interact with
the computer orally. In more recent Star Treks, the book has re-appeared in a
digital format, but it is only used by those who have an antiquarian interest in
that technology. We now possess the software to make the Star Trek vision a
reality.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Since we are born to do oral/aural communication, I doubt we will
stick with reading except for limited applications like making lists, etc.
People will go with what's easiest. I noticed over the holidays that someone
has a little gizmo that will replace a grocery list.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> When you are paying your bills, do you do the sums in your head or on
paper? If you are like most people, you track that on a calculator. Some of us
actually pay bills on line, so the computer keeps track of that, and will even
give you a yearly report if you ask for it.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Many computers now come with a screen reader, but if they don't,
you can get one very cheaply. Software is also available that will let you
interface with your computer by giving oral commands and directions. You can
dictate emails, memos, reports, term papers, etc. that can be printed or
emailed. If you have a copy of Huckleberry Finn, you can scan it in to your
computer and have the computer read it to you.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Computers also come with cameras, so you can do video-calls or
meetings.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I don't agree that academic and professional information is not on
the web. Most content is now on the web. As more higher education entities join
Open Source agreements, there will be less and less that is not on the web.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> And, everything we do on a computer, we will soon be able to do on
cell phones, so the argument that this technology is out of reach for low-income
people isn't true. I can ask my cell phone to dial my brother's phone
number, and it does it.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> As the demand for oral/aural software grows, ways to scan and to
highlight audiofiles will be refined. We'll be able to sort key statements
and phrases. Speed listening can be developed in much the same way speed reading
is. We know from the long histories that aboriginal people are able to do
remember, that neither capacity or accuracy will be a problem when speaking and
listening replace reading and writing.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> So, we need to prepare our students for life in speaking and listening
world. I was at Microsoft's School of the Future conference in Seattle last
month, and one of the presenters said that the changes I've been talking
about will happen subliminally, and if we, by chance do sense something happen,
it will seem seductive.
>
>
>>
>
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>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Michael Tate
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 12:25 PM
>
>> To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
>
>> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3397] Re: oral vs reading traditions
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> It is not a matter of audio books over print books. The reality is
that most of the information we need to access in academic and professional
situations is not available in audio form, and we are often required to provide
information in written form. Moreover, most of us can read much faster than we
listen. We can scan, we can easily focus on what is important. Reading and
writing are phenomenal inventions, that dwarf the invention of the computer and
digital sound files, in terms of their impact on human development.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I have not heard a valid argument for saying that good literacy skills
are not important.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
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>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ________________________________
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>> National Institute for Literacy
>
>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list
>
>> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
>
>> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ________________________________
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> External Confirmation:
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> This email message was generated by an external source.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic
Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be
legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient
or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any
review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please notify us
immediately at the e-mail address listed above.
>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Thank you.
>
>>
>
>> ________________________________
>
>> Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. Check
it out.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>>
>
>> National Institute for Literacy
>
>>
>
>> Adult English Language Learners mailing list
>
>>
>
>> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
>
>>
>
>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
>
>>
>
>> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com
>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
>
>
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> National Institute for Literacy
>
> Adult English Language Learners mailing list
>
> EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
>
> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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> Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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----------------------------------------------------
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:54:15 -0800 (PST)
From: cece valentine <cgv757 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3492] Re: Motivation in language learning
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <660411.99242.qm at web38202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
That still; is an adult perogative.? Why shouldthey learn any language
(Americans included) if they have adequate support in their native language,
including their videos, etc.? To learn another language is still a luxury item,
unless necessary for job security, functioning as an immigrant in whatever
particular country one finds himself, etc.? Check out Americans who live
abroad.? Same thing.
?
cgv
cgv757 at yahoo.com
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3488] Re: Motivation in language learning
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 11:20 AM
My experience with ESL learners in Vancouver is that very few put in the
significant effort outside the classroom that is required to achieve a major
improvement. Languages are not learned in class. They are not learned doing
homework assignments. They are learned through a massive interaction with the
language, vast amounts of listening and reading, and eventually speaking.
Most ESL students I have met, and heard teachers complain about, are unwilling
to do this. They may be prepared to do tasks in class, and to do their homework.
Most then spend the rest of their lives in their native language, with their own
community, watching videos and TV in their native language etc. This is not
going to do it. They know it and are unwilling to change.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to cgv757 at yahoo.com
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:55:09 -0800 (PST)
From: cece valentine <cgv757 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3493] Re: oral vs reading traditions
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <602312.97929.qm at web38206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I agree 100%.
?
cgv
cgv757 at yahoo.com
--- On Sun, 1/18/09, Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3487] Re: oral vs reading traditions
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 11:10 AM
I fail? to see the benefit of teaching children truespel. I would strongly
oppose it. Children would still have to learn how to spell in order to
communicate in writing and in order to read. Every language has its difficulty
as well as junk code that is unnecessary.
Why not get rid of articles in English and the complicated tenses while we are
at ? Other languages do fine without them. Let's drop gender and the
subjunctive in various European languages. They serve no purpose and are hard to
remember, and make the learning of cases almost impossible.? Why not combine
French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese into one "interlingua" so that
foreigners would only have to learn one Romance language to talk to all of these
people. Let's get rid of of verb aspects in Russian, other languages do not
need them. Why not write Chinese in the Roman alphabet so it is easier for
foreigners?
No. Languages are what they are. They evolve over time. They are living natural
human phenomena. I fail to see any useful purpose to truespel. Learn to spell or
use a spell checker.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:15:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Pruett-Said <said at ameritech.net>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3494] Re: Motivation in language learning
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <495902.93025.qm at web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The?more important?question is why are students unwilling to put in the time.
First of all, Steve, I think you have a love (and talent?) to learn other
languages. Not everyone feels that way. For many adult students language is an
obstacle. It's an obstacle to do what they want. They understand they need
to learn the language, and they want to. But after they've put in a long day
and/or night?at work, perhaps with limited sleep, and tried to help?their
children, and navigated an unfamiliar culture there is little energy left for
learning a new language.? Being able to "rest" with?their own is a
well-deserved moment of relaxation.
You may ask why they came then. The answer is they came for a better life for
their children or other members of their family. Most people don't emigrate
for the fun of it. There are always push factors involved--some bigger than
others. Many immigrants also are unaware of all the challenges they are going to
face. I've had students tell me if they had known what they know now, they
wouldn't have emigrated. In addition, a number of immigrants initially
intend to return to their countries of origin, but what pushed them away in the
first place doesn't change as rapidly as they plan. In the US, Castro's
Cuba would be a perfect example. The longer they stay and become disconnected
from their countries and have children who want to stay, the harder it becomes
to return. In other cases, people have to sell everything they own in order to
emigrate, so there is nothing for them to go back to when the opportunity
arises.
The above story is not the story of every immigrant. More and more we see
transnationals who go back and forth between countries. But this group is
usually better educated, and may already be multilingual so if they do show up
in our classes, they are often more motivated.
Terry Pruett-Said
________________________________
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:20:35 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3488] Re: Motivation in language learning
My experience with ESL learners in Vancouver is that very few put in the
significant effort outside the classroom that is required to achieve a major
improvement. Languages are not learned in class. They are not learned doing
homework assignments. They are learned through a massive interaction with the
language, vast amounts of listening and reading, and eventually speaking.
Most ESL students I have met, and heard teachers complain about, are unwilling
to do this. They may be prepared to do tasks in class, and to do their homework.
Most then spend the rest of their lives in their native language, with their own
community, watching videos and TV in their native language etc. This is not
going to do it. They know it and are unwilling to change.
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:44:01 +0000
From: Tom Zurinskas <truespel at hotmail.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3495] Re: oral vs reading traditions
To: <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <BAY135-W123086F7A14DFEFB12A47DD3D20 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Paul,
So you're saying there is no useful purpose to phonetic notation?
That's all truespel is. Don't you think dictionaries should have
phonetic guides? Most do. And most use special symbols that are keyboard
unfriendly. For instance the word "inaugural" in that good resource
m-w.com.
Main Entry: in?au?gu?ral
Pronunciation: \i-?no?-gy?-r?l, -g(?-)r?l\
I'm sure kids can handle simple phonetic notaton because it's been
proven true with IBM's "Writing to Read" system for thousands of
K-1 kids as tested by ETS. But that system was WAY before its time, before
internet and very expensive. Now a better system with no special symbols is
available free for teachers and kids via truespel.com. It's the way to go.
Right now I'm writing Some French Canadian words in truespel to speak to my
new neighbors. I had my neighbors speak them and I wrote them phonetically. I
read them back and they laugh and say I have a French Canadian accent. Wee.
I'm just repeating their accent phonetically back to them.
So truespel is just a phonetic spelling. If you see no use for phonetic
spelling, then it's of no use for you. But I see plenty of use for you.
Tom Zurinskas, USA - CT20, TN3, NJ33, FL5+
Learn truespel in 15 minutes at http://drop.io/tzurinskas
________________________________
> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 08:10:37 -0800
> From: steve at thelinguist.com
> To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3487] Re: oral vs reading traditions
>
> I fail to see the benefit of teaching children truespel. I would strongly
oppose it. Children would still have to learn how to spell in order to
communicate in writing and in order to read. Every language has its difficulty
as well as junk code that is unnecessary.
>
>
> Why not get rid of articles in English and the complicated tenses while we
are at ? Other languages do fine without them. Let's drop gender and the
subjunctive in various European languages. They serve no purpose and are hard to
remember, and make the learning of cases almost impossible. Why not combine
French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese into one "interlingua" so that
foreigners would only have to learn one Romance language to talk to all of these
people. Let's get rid of of verb aspects in Russian, other languages do not
need them. Why not write Chinese in the Roman alphabet so it is easier for
foreigners?
>
>
> No. Languages are what they are. They evolve over time. They are living
natural human phenomena. I fail to see any useful purpose to truespel. Learn to
spell or use a spell checker.
>
> Steve Kaufmann
> www.lingq.com
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_explore_012009
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:27:08 EST
From: IHABRAMSON at aol.com
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3496] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and
K-12ESL
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Cc: BDiaz at dadeschools.net
Message-ID: <c88.3ff4d136.36a530ec at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello.
In some adult education programs I have worked with, students were on
welfare and had to come to our classes (or risk losing benefits).
"Resource
sharing" meant using kindergarten readers for basic ESL adults. This
saved money
but the practice was considered degrading by some staff, especially since the
enrollees really had no choice in the matter.
Any thoughts from the list?
Ilene
_ihabramson at aol.com_ (mailto:ihabramson at aol.com)
In a message dated 1/18/2009 10:21:42 AM Eastern Standard Time,
BDiaz at dadeschools.net writes:
In our district,the last superintendent had the vision of a seamless K-adult
program. The adult ESOL program was the first one moved to a K-12 division
under Curriculum and Development. Moving our adult ESOL program, servicing 40,
000+ students with 800+ teachers, into the Division of Bilingual Education
and World Languages helped establish a good professional working retation with
K-12 folks. Their programs and ours have benefited from the merge in several
ways: professional development, resource sharing, community outreach and
policy making.
This is the third year of our joint venture and it gets better everyday as
both groups collaborate to service our English learners. We have saved money,
a
good thing in budget tight times, and have learned from each other so
practitioners and administrators from both programs (K-12 and adult) now have
common
goals that have lead to better service and more community outreach.
________________________________
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Martin Senger
Sent: Fri 1/16/2009 7:46 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3449] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL
Pax et bonum Marieke!
I would love to hear more details about your group. Here in Erie (PA), the
K-12 admin (I haven't contacted individual K-12 ESL teachers) establishment
doesn't seem very interested in working with ABE. Did you find that also?
Did you
deal with the groups on a local/regional/state level?
Do you have any existing teacher "networks" of either K-12 or ABE? We
have
the Professional Development Center (PDC), which is in charge of professional
development for ABE teachers. They are an official part of the PA Dept of Ed.
(PDE). Through them, we have created a very active teachers' network (the
most
active in the state), with around 5-10 participants every month (almost every
adult ESL program in the area is represented). Our meetings are around 3 hours,
and we usually have a guest speaker, but we also have time to just
"debrief"
with other ESL teachers. We have years of experience between the lot of us. We
have become very good friends through our "commiserating." I
haven't found
anything (yet) similar in the K-12 field.
As of right now, there are NO lines of communication between us and the K-12
crowd. Like I said, the local school admin has shown very little enthusiasm
for cooperation. I would at least like to open one, so there would be some
potential of communication and cooperation. Any suggestions?
Martin E. Senger
Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie, Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL Special Interest Group
Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mareike Fitz
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:47 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3436] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL
Martin,
The networking started with individual teachers from three different
institutions (2 school and 1 non-profit ABE). We met and put together a mini
"language learning" workshop/ conference. This included a local
specialist in that
field as a keynote speaker, I modeled a German class for the attendees to
analyze, and we finished in an activity swap. The overall topic was learning
strategies. We invited teachers, volunteer tutors and any language learning
enthusiasts to participate. Around 25 attended, which is quite significant for
a town
of 8000.
In this 1st meeting we surveyed the participants about their interest in
pursuing our meetings. Most were very interested and many were happy to
volunteer
as a presenter in the future. We will meet again in a couple of months and
have different presenters.
Since financial means for regular visits of conferences are rare for us these
days this project is an affordable way to share the knowledge we have and
benefit from each other.
Greetings from snowy Wyoming,
Mareike
Mareike Fitz
Adult Program Director
(307)733 9242 ext. 226
mareike at tetonliteracy.org
On Jan 15, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Martin Senger wrote:
Pax et bonum Marieke!
Could you offer some specifics on how the groups came together, or what do
they do currently?
Martin E. Senger
Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie, Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL Special Interest Group
Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mareike Fitz
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:44 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3429] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL
This is a very interesting discussion for me to follow. Thanks for the
contributions. I agree that working with adults is very different from working
with
children and youths in the schools. However, the difference is small enough
for teachers in both areas to learn from each other.
To answer Martin's question, yes, there is cooperation between Adult ESL
and
teachers where I live. Just recently educators in schools as well as teaching
staff from the adult program I work with have started getting together for
small workshops. The goal of these meetings is to share our resources/ ideas
and to create a network. It has been very successful so far. I would highly
recommend it for anybody. Amongst others having the possibility to observe
different teachers classes has been a great benefit.
mareike
Mareike Fitz
Adult Program Director
(307)733 9242 ext. 226
mareike at tetonliteracy.org
On Jan 15, 2009, at 9:02 AM, cece valentine wrote:
Athough I have completed studies for a Master's in Early Childhood and am
currently certified nk-8, I have found it is a whole different ball game
teaching
adults. I received a certificate for TESOL from Indian River Community
College, it's offered online and they have loads of links and readings for
you.
Teaching adults is an adult experience for sure!! I taught on the community
college level also classes for students in a Nurse's Aid Program, many of
whom
were GED graduates.
cgvalentine
--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3413] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List"
<englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 9:56 AM
"Since
my program is strictly for parents with young children and
the topics pertain to school related vocabulary and events I
prefer to hire K-12 ESOL. At the same time I have had
a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time adjusting
their teaching style to a room full of
adults."
I find it strange that you would
prefer to hire people who are trained in pedgagogy, not
andragogy, to teach adults. I understand the
relationship between the two programs, but can you tell me
what in your experience causes you to lean that way?
Were the adult ESOL teachers (that apprently didn't do
well in your program) actually trained in applied
linguistics or adult education? It has been my
experience that many K-6 teachers have difficulty
making the transition to adult education without a great
deal of additional training and support.
Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn
Rose, PhD
Instuctor,
Austin Learning
Academy
841-4777
--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
<Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu> wrote:
From: Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
<Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3412] Re: Cooperation between
Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion
List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:38 AM
Martin
I work
closely with the K-12 ESOL office but fall under the Adult
ESOL umbrella. My program is Family Literacy which is
free to parents of elementary school parents and funded by
the K-12 Office using Title III funds. My program has
been the main link between the two offices for a
while. As budgets decrease in our system we have had
more meetings between the two groups to see how we can work
together. Typically advertising the adult classes at
parent events has been the main link between the two
organizations. I have hired both K-12 ESOL teachers
and Adult ESOL teachers in my program and do see a
difference in their teaching. Since my program is
strictly for parents with young children and the topics
pertain to school related vocabulary and events I prefer to
hire K-12 ESOL. At the same time I have
had a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time
adjusting their teaching style to a room full of
adults.
Laurie
Mangum
Family Literacy
Specialist/Adult ESOL
Fairfax County
Public Schools
Adult &
Community Education
Plum
Center for Lifelong
Learning
6815 Edsall
Rd.
Springfield , VA 22151
From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin
Senger
Sent:
Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:02 AM
To: The Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject:
[EnglishLanguage 3411] Cooperation between Adult ESL and
K-12 ESL
Pax
et bonum! (peace & goodness)
In
your area, is there any/much cooperation between the Adult
ESL field (teachers/administrators/professional
development/research) and K-12?
I
work with several adult ESL teacher networks, but have very,
very limited contact with the K-12 crowd. Is that the norm,
or are we "special?" I have just talked with the PA Dept
of Ed/K-12 ESL section, and they said we could use their
professional development (when pertinent). I just think
it's funny that we have people doing basically the same
thing (ESL), but in completely different circles. Is there a
big enough difference between adult ed and K-12 to warrant
two individual fields? What say you?
Martin
E. Senger
Adult
ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C.
/ The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie,
Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL
Special Interest Group
Pa.
Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education
(PAACE)
From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Brigitte
Marshall
Sent:
Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:34 PM
To: The Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject:
[EnglishLanguage 3410] Re: FW: Re:
managingprogramsforadultEnglishlearners
So many
of us who have pursued management of ESL Programs as a next
step in our journey as ESL professionals are very committed
to keeping the direct and real connection with the
classroom. Several posters to this list discussion have
talked about the value of remaining engaged at the classroom
level because of their love of teaching and/or their desire
to remain connected to students. I know that for a couple of
years I struggled to juggle both, being an administrator and
a classroom teacher, and in the end I discovered a way to
feed my need to teach and stay connected more directly to
students at the same time in a way that I had not
anticipated. My motivation has always emanated from a
commitment to refugee and immigrant students, but when I was
asked to teach in an adult credentialing programming, I
discovered a whole new way of
contributing something that I thought would ultimately be
of benefit to refugees and immigrants. Working with teachers
as they are learning their craft can be wonderfully
rewarding and provided me with the opportunity to engage
with teachers in a way that was not evaluative or
supervisory - which raises another question I have been
wondering about....
When I
was going through the administrative credentialing program,
the professor who was leading the section on supervision and
evaluation made a couple of very strong recommendations; the
first was that administrators and program managers should
not try to be instructional experts and should not try to
critique the teachers they were supervising and observing
from a place of expertise. The second was that as the
supervisor and/or evaluator, an administrator or program
manager is very ill positioned to be a coach, or the person
identified to help and support a teacher because the
supervisory dynamic will get in the way.
What do
others think about these recommendations?
Can ESL
Program Managers continue over time to be experts on
instructional practice, or should they acknowledge that
being out of the classroom either entirely or more than they
are in it, reduces their ability to speak from a platform of
expertise? And if an ESL Program Manager does not speak from
a platform of instructional and specific ESL expertise, how
do they effectively manage and supervise?
Do you
agree that administrators and program managers are not the
best people to be coaches for teachers who need support to
develop their craft? If not the Program manager, then
who?
Brigitte
Marshall, Director
Oakland
Adult and Career Education
McClymonds
Education Complex
2607
Myrtle Street,
Oakland , CA 94607
Tel:
(510) 879 3037
Fax:
(510) 452 2077
Expect
Success. Every student. Every classroom. Every
day.
From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Diaz,
Beatriz B.
Sent:
Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:05 PM
To: The Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE:
[EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing
programsforadultEnglishlearners
As the
"leader" of a very large Adult ESOL program,
I wear many hats but more and more I find it difficult to
get away from my "administrator crown", which
is the one I like the least. I strongly believe that
programs improve and better service students if leaders are
in the class, in the centers and in the community
facilating English literacy opportunities and expanding
our learning communities. Unfortunately, many hours of my
day are spent processing the right form, approving purchase
orders and attending meetings. Is this typical of
others in similar positions? How have other achieved a
balance short of putting in 20 hours of work per
day?
From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Betsy Wong
Sent: Tue
1/13/2009 10:50 AM
To: 'The
Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'
Subject:
[EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing
programsforadultEnglishlearners
In keeping with the spirit of a
chain dialogue, I wanted to highlight
something that Laurie said:
"What I find more important is recognizing really good
teaching methods and
resources available and providing opportunities to share
those in your
program."
I think that this is a really important part of a program
manager's role,
and it gets back to the points that have been made about
striving to be a
visionary and achieving balance.
It also points to a solution to a dilemma that many of us
face: In the face
of shrunken resources, what can we offer teachers when
salary increases or
full-time positions are simply not on the table?
I think that professional development opportunities can be
something to help
"sell" a program to a prospective teacher and
help motivate (and retain)
current teachers. This can be through formal in-service
meetings responding
to teachers' stated needs or informal discussions or
focus groups that allow
teachers to share ideas and give input on program
decisions.
What do the rest of you think? Suggestions?
Betsy Lindeman Wong
Lead ESL Teacher
Alexandria Adult and Community Education
-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:18 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3342] FW: Re: managing programs
foradultEnglishlearners
I wanted to respond to Brigitte's thought
"I think it would be very interesting to explore this
last point a
little
bit more. We have already asked if we think that ESOL
Program Managers
should ideally have ESOL classroom
experience - but what do we think
about the need for an effective ESOL Program Manager to
have been a
good, or really good teacher? Is this a necessary
pre-requisite? And is
an effective ESOL Program manager's effectiveness
derived from their
ongoing expertise as a classroom instructor? Is it really
possible for
an ESOL Program Manager to remain current and a model of
good
instructional practice? If they don't, could they still
be able to
manage and supervise other ESL instructors
effectively?"
My name is Laurie Mangum, I manage the Family Literacy
program under
Adult ESOL for Fairfax County Public Schools. I had
taught a
non-intensive ESOL class (first as a volunteer and then
paid) before
taking on the responsibility to coordinate this program but
I always
think of my professional background as a project
manager. I am often
frustrated by the idea in Education that good teachers make
good
administrators. I don't necessarily think being a
really good teacher
is a pre-requisite to running a really good program.
What I find more
important is recognizing really good teaching methods and
resources
available and providing opportunities to share those in
your program. I
see part of my job to be a consulting role and look for
best practices
to share with my staff. Managing the many facets of a
program and being
adept at changing strategies when something isn't
working are also
instrumental to being successful in the role. Or as
some people have
described my job: having the ability to juggle while
herding cats.
Laurie Mangum
Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL
Fairfax County Public Schools
Adult & Community Education
Plum Center for Lifelong Learning
6815 Edsall Rd.
Springfield , VA 22151
Phone:
703-658-2760
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