I do agree we can learn from each other, but the differences are not small. 



Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD

Instuctor, 
Austin Learning Academy
841-4777
 

--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mareike Fitz <mareike at tetonliteracy.org> wrote:

From: Mareike Fitz <mareike at tetonliteracy.org>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3429] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 10:43 AM


This is a very interesting discussion for me to follow.  Thanks for the contributions. I agree that working with adults is very different from working with children and youths in the schools.  However, the difference is small enough for teachers in both areas to learn from each other.


To answer Martin's question, yes, there is cooperation between Adult ESL and teachers where I live.  Just recently educators in schools as well as teaching staff from the adult program I work with have started getting together for small workshops.  The goal of these meetings is to share our resources/ ideas and to create a network.  It has been very successful so far. I would highly recommend it for anybody.  Amongst others having the possibility to observe different teachers classes has been a great benefit.  


mareike



Mareike Fitz
Adult Program Director
(307)733 9242 ext. 226
mareike at tetonliteracy.org





On Jan 15, 2009, at 9:02 AM, cece valentine wrote:


Athough I have completed studies for a Master's in Early Childhood and am currently certified nk-8, I have found it is a whole different ball game teaching adults.  I received a certificate for TESOL from Indian River Community College, it's offered online and they have loads of links and readings for you.  Teaching adults is an adult experience for sure!! I taught on the community college level also classes for students in a Nurse's Aid Program, many of whom were GED graduates.


cgvalentine


--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com> wrote:



From: Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3413] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 9:56 AM
"Since
my program is strictly for parents with young children and
the topics pertain to school related vocabulary and events I
prefer to hire K-12 ESOL.  At the same time I have had
a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time adjusting
their teaching style to a room full of
adults."
 
I find it strange that you would
prefer to hire people who are trained in pedgagogy, not
andragogy, to teach adults.  I understand the
relationship between the two programs, but can you tell me
what in your experience causes you to lean that way? 
Were the adult ESOL teachers (that apprently didn't do
well in your program) actually trained in applied
linguistics or adult education?  It has been my
experience that many K-6 teachers have difficulty
making the transition to adult education without a great
deal of additional training and support.








Grace and Peace!
Glenda Lynn
Rose, PhD


Instuctor, 
Austin Learning
Academy
841-4777
 


--- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
<Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu> wrote:


From: Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
<Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu>
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3412] Re: Cooperation between
Adult ESL and K-12 ESL
To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion
List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:38 AM
















Martin
 
I work
closely with the K-12 ESOL office but fall under the Adult
ESOL umbrella.  My program is Family Literacy which is
free to parents of elementary school parents and funded by
the K-12 Office using Title III funds.  My program has
been the main link between the two offices for a
while.  As budgets decrease in our system we have had
more meetings between the two groups to see how we can work
together.  Typically advertising the adult classes at
parent events has been the main link between the two
organizations.  I have hired both K-12 ESOL teachers
and Adult ESOL teachers in my program and do see a
difference in their teaching.  Since my program is
strictly for parents with young children and the topics
pertain to school related vocabulary and events I prefer to
hire K-12 ESOL.  At the same time I have
 had a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time
adjusting their teaching style to a room full of
adults.
 
Laurie
Mangum
Family Literacy
Specialist/Adult ESOL
Fairfax County
Public Schools
Adult &
Community Education
Plum
Center for Lifelong
Learning
6815 Edsall
Rd. 
Springfield , VA 22151
 
 








From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin
Senger
Sent:
Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:02 AM
To: The Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject:
[EnglishLanguage 3411] Cooperation between Adult ESL and
K-12 ESL
 
Pax
et bonum! (peace & goodness)
 
In
your area, is there any/much cooperation between the Adult
ESL field (teachers/administrators/professional
development/research) and K-12?
 
I
work with several adult ESL teacher networks, but have very,
very limited contact with the K-12 crowd. Is that the norm,
or are we “special?” I have just talked with the PA Dept
of Ed/K-12 ESL section, and they said we could use their
professional development (when pertinent). I just think
it’s funny that we have people doing basically the same
thing (ESL), but in completely different circles. Is there a
big enough difference between adult ed and K-12 to warrant
two individual fields? What say you?
 


Martin
E. Senger
Adult
ESL / Civics Teacher,
G.E.C.A.C.
/ The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center
Erie,
Pa.
Co-Director,
ESL
Special Interest Group
Pa.
Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education
(PAACE)
 




From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Brigitte
Marshall
Sent:
Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:34 PM
To: The Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject:
[EnglishLanguage 3410] Re: FW: Re:
managingprogramsforadultEnglishlearners
 
So many
of us who have pursued management of ESL Programs as a next
step in our journey as ESL professionals are very committed
to keeping the direct and real connection with the
classroom. Several posters to this list discussion have
talked about the value of remaining engaged at the classroom
level because of their love of teaching and/or their desire
to remain connected to students. I know that for a couple of
years I struggled to juggle both, being an administrator and
a classroom teacher, and in the end I discovered a way to
feed my need to teach and stay connected more directly to
students at the same time in a way that I had not
anticipated. My motivation has always emanated from a
commitment to refugee and immigrant students, but when I was
asked to teach in an adult credentialing programming, I
discovered a whole new way of
 contributing something that I thought would ultimately be
of benefit to refugees and immigrants. Working with teachers
as they are learning their craft can be wonderfully
rewarding and provided me with the opportunity to engage
with teachers in a way that was not evaluative or
supervisory – which raises another question I have been
wondering about….
 
When I
was going through the administrative credentialing program,
the professor who was leading the section on supervision and
evaluation made a couple of very strong recommendations; the
first was that administrators and program managers should
not try to be instructional experts and should not try to
critique the teachers they were supervising and observing
from a place of expertise. The second was that as the
supervisor and/or evaluator, an administrator or program
manager is very ill positioned to be a coach, or the person
identified to help and support a teacher because the
supervisory dynamic will get in the way. 
What do
others think about these recommendations? 
Can ESL
Program Managers continue over time to be experts on
instructional practice, or should they acknowledge that
being out of the classroom either entirely or more than they
are in it, reduces their ability to speak from a platform of
expertise? And if an ESL Program Manager does not speak from
a platform of instructional and specific ESL expertise, how
do they effectively manage and supervise?
Do you
agree that administrators and program managers are not the
best people to be coaches for teachers who need support to
develop their craft? If not the Program manager, then
who?
 


Brigitte
Marshall, Director
Oakland
Adult and Career Education
McClymonds
Education Complex
2607
Myrtle Street,
Oakland , CA 94607
 
Tel:
(510) 879 3037
Fax:
(510) 452 2077 
 
Expect
Success. Every student. Every classroom. Every
day.








From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Diaz,
Beatriz B.
Sent:
Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:05 PM
To: The Adult
English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: RE:
[EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing
programsforadultEnglishlearners
 




As the
"leader" of a very large Adult ESOL program, 
I wear many hats but more and more I find it difficult to
get away from my "administrator crown", which
is the one I like the least.  I strongly believe that
programs improve and better service students if leaders are
in the  class, in the centers and in the community
facilating English literacy opportunities and expanding
our learning communities. Unfortunately, many hours of my
day are spent processing the right form, approving purchase
orders and attending meetings.  Is this typical of
others in similar positions?  How have other achieved a
balance short of putting in 20 hours of work per
day?


 






From:
englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Betsy Wong
Sent: Tue
1/13/2009 10:50 AM
To: 'The
Adult English Language Learners Discussion List'
Subject:
[EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing
programsforadultEnglishlearners


In keeping with the spirit of a
chain dialogue, I wanted to highlight
something that Laurie said:


"What I find more important is recognizing really good
teaching methods and
resources available and providing opportunities to share
those in your
program."


I think that this is a really important part of a program
manager's role,
and it gets back to the points that have been made about
striving to be a
visionary and achieving balance.


It also points to a solution to a dilemma that many of us
face: In the face
of shrunken resources, what can we offer teachers when
salary increases or
full-time positions are simply not on the table?


I think that professional development opportunities can be
something to help
"sell" a program to a prospective teacher and
help motivate (and retain)
current teachers. This can be through formal in-service
 meetings responding
to teachers' stated needs or informal discussions or
focus groups that allow
teachers to share ideas and give input on program
decisions.  


What do the rest of you think? Suggestions?


Betsy Lindeman Wong
Lead ESL Teacher
Alexandria Adult and Community Education


-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Mangum, Laurie (ACE)
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:18 AM
To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3342] FW: Re: managing programs
foradultEnglishlearners


I wanted to respond to Brigitte's thought


"I think it would be very interesting to explore this
last point a
little
bit more. We have already asked if we think that ESOL
Program Managers
should ideally have ESOL classroom
 experience - but what do we think
about the need for an effective ESOL Program Manager to
have been a
good, or really good teacher? Is this a necessary
pre-requisite? And is
an effective ESOL Program manager's effectiveness
derived from their
ongoing expertise as a classroom instructor? Is it really
possible for
an ESOL Program Manager to remain current and a model of
good
instructional practice? If they don't, could they still
be able to
manage and supervise other ESL instructors
effectively?"




My name is Laurie Mangum, I manage the Family Literacy
program under
Adult ESOL for Fairfax County Public Schools.  I had
taught a
non-intensive ESOL class (first as a volunteer and then
paid) before
taking on the responsibility to coordinate this program but
I always
think of my professional background as a project
manager.  I am often
frustrated by the idea in Education that good teachers make
 good
administrators.  I don't necessarily think being a
really good teacher
is a pre-requisite to running a really good program. 
What I find more
important is recognizing really good teaching methods and
resources
available and providing opportunities to share those in
your program.  I
see part of my job to be a consulting role and look for
best practices
to share with my staff.  Managing the many facets of a
program and being
adept at changing strategies when something isn't
working are also
instrumental to being successful in the role.  Or as
some people have
described my job: having the ability to juggle while
herding cats. 






Laurie Mangum
Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL
Fairfax County Public Schools
Adult & Community Education
Plum Center for Lifelong Learning
6815 Edsall Rd.
Springfield , VA 22151


Phone: 
 703-658-2760


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