Spell-checker could be included in there, and not just for ESOL: all those inappropriate choices we find. "-)  
Bonnie Odiorne, Post University Writing Center and English Composition, Waterbury, CT 


----- Original Message ----
From: "Sledd, Lee" <lsledd at tacomacc.edu>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:08:05 AM
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2476] Re: advancing competency

I think Steve's eschewing of dictionary/thesaurus and preference for 'honestly' acquired language gets to the importance of context, or at least collocation. A good ESL learner's dictionary like Longman's will give, for each word, multiple examples drawn from authentic corpus. Not a purist whole language approach to acquiring words, but a useful tool when someone feels truly stuck on a word, or just curious, and context is not enough. 

I think we have all seen the result of haphazard use of the little translators- with lower levels when vocabulary is especially lacking, results are entertaining. I had students "abiding" in cities with babies who "lament and lament"... colorful, but hardly appropriate for everyday speech when what they needed was to simply live and cry. In addition to guiding our dictionary addicts to other strategies, as they progress we can guide them to quality dictionaries designed with their needs in mind.  

Lee Sledd
Madison Family Literacy, ESL
Tacoma Community College
253-571-1887



-----Original Message-----
From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Hudson, Linda K
Sent: Tue 5/13/2008 6:34 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2406] Re: advancing competency

I totally agree that letting students come up with word choices from their own vocabulary helps strengthen their vocabulary. I like to brainstorm on the board and let them see the words that they choose. Also, I like to allow them to use the thesaurus with their writing assignments because they began to speak those words later and their writing becomes stronger. At the end of the week the students are allowed to compete with each other on test to win certain prizes. Students love it! Students get to choose the language and win prizes for doing so!(smile)



Educationally yours, 

Ms. L. K. Hudson, M.Ed. 
Elementary Educator 
"Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open." Sir James Dewar 



________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sheryl Rogel
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 2:50 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2387] Re: advancing competency



Thanks for your input and I think that we are talking similarly.  Pat seemed to recommend that a student use his or her own words to explore other possible and perhaps richer word choices rather than just give them a list of words.  I know I encourage my students to get ideas from other ideas and see that in itself is a sign of lively thinking.



In my experience, students do respond to ideas for ways to choose richer or more specific words.  The goal is that students having more choices in their own "mind" file so they produce richer language, whether speaking or writing.  



The thesaurus is one way and modeling is another. For example, I sit in a chair and ask students to describe what I am doing in relation to a chair... they usually jump out with the word 'sitting', but since I am sitting with my legs on either side of the back of the chair, they eventually get to,  with or without prompting,  a more specific word like 'straddling'.  Another example, do we want to write ... my boss 'says',   "Come to work on time."  Or does she 'demand' or 'order' - 'scream' or 'shriek' or ..   All words that most students have some familiarity but often do not choose as they first put "pen to paper" or more likely "fingers to keys" .



That students know how to seek for richer language is more important, whether using the thesaurus to seek out richer words for ones they are already using, such as Pat mentioned, or by coming across delightful words while reading or by listening to other's conversations as you suggested.  At the close of the day that our students have been captivated by language, that they find richer language on the tips of their minds, and that they know how to seek for richness if they choose is where I am striving.  



Your thoughts?  



Sheryl Rogel
English Instructor
Bates Technical College
1101 Yakima Ave S
Tacoma, WA   98498
253-680-7267 

"Every study of young writers I've done in the last twenty years has underestimated what they can do; in fact, we know very little about the human potential for writing."  Donald Graves



________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:01 PM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2384] Re: advancing competency



When learning a language I am always wary of words that I find in a dictionary, or thesaurus, or list of synonyms. In fact I stay away from them. They are not meaningful to me. 

I think that learners should be encouraged to learn words from their own reading and listening, and to read more to acquire more words. They  need to keep track of the words they have already encountered and the phrases where these words were used in familiar contexts. That is what I do, and then I use flash cards to review these words and phrases. 

This helps to stimulate my powers of observation of the language, but it is when I have met words often enough in interesting contexts that they become a part of me, mostly incidentally, that is most of the words I learn were not the ones that I deliberately reviewed.

Steve

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Pat Olson <polson at kishwaukeecollege.edu> wrote:

If computers are available, your students can make use of the synonym function of Word (highlight "nice" for example, right click on top of the highlighted word, click on "synonym" in the list that appears).  This will offer them alternatives that they can explore further.



Pat Olson

Literacy Coordinator

Kishwaukee College

21193 Malta Rd.

Malta IL 60150

(815) 825-2086, ext. 320

Adult Volunteer Tutoring



________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Sheryl Rogel
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:19 PM


To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2381] Re: advancing competency



Interesting.  Good starter for a conversation with students as we talk about seeking out "other" words while editing their writing, like 'good' and 'nice' and such words learned when first acquiring language.  This is not too different from writers for whom English is their first language as they often choose words that they learned when first acquiring language.  I am thinking that when they are more careful about using words that are more specific, like jog or sprint instead of run, that they will be thinking in those terms more naturally.      



Sheryl Rogel
English Instructor
Bates Technical College
1101 Yakima Ave S
Tacoma, WA   98498
253-680-7267 

"Every study of young writers I've done in the last twenty years has underestimated what they can do; in fact, we know very little about the human potential for writing."  Donald Graves



________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Steve Kaufmann
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 9:46 AM
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2380] Re: advancing competency



Goals can be different for different learners. To me, one universal goal, and a good measurement of one's level, is the number of words known, and I mean just passively known. This can be relatively easily measured with cloze tests. If these words have been acquired honestly,  through reading (and listening) , it usually means that a large number of them have been acquired incidentally, and that the learner is on his/her way to acquiring more words in the same way. Eventually, given the opportunity to speak and write, more and more of these passive words will become active. But passive vocabulary is the foundation of language growth, and an excellent measurement of progress, in my view.


Steve

On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Sheryl Rogel <srogel at bates.ctc.edu> wrote:

Very nicely explained Wayne.  I will be thoughtful about sharing your thoughts with our students.  I think this description would be most helpful for students in understanding their own language acquisition struggles so they can proceed with confidence when setting explicit goals.   Thank you



Sheryl Rogel
English Instructor
Bates Technical College
1101 Yakima Ave S
Tacoma, WA   98498
253-680-7267 

"Every study of young writers I've done in the last twenty years has underestimated what they can do; in fact, we know very little about the human potential for writing."  Donald Graves



________________________________

From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Wayne Hall
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2008 1:46 AM


To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2371] Re: advancing competency



A paradigm that I have used with advanced adult students of English in Korea is to tell them that learning a language is a bit like being in a small boat on a body of water. When students first begin learning a language, it's a bit like being in a small boat that is passing midway down a narrow stream. As the boat moves forward, the banks of the stream are passing by, so it is easy for the learner/traveller to have a sense of progress, and a sense of where they are going. 



When you become an advanced student, however, you have a problem...the small stream has opened up into an "ocean" of English. There are no "banks of the stream" anymore; nothing to give you a reference point or a sense of direction. The language you've learned is now an ocean...it goes on forever, and you can "move" and "see" in any possible direction. However, it is now very difficult to have a sense of progress or a sense of direction. You can move your boat over to the region of legalisms and legal English, for example, and study those for a while...but when you finish, there is still something else to learn. And there always will be. 



So what does an advanced learner do? They have to develop new tools to give themselves a reference point and be able to determine where they are going and how they are progressing. They need a "nautical chart": a set of explicit goals, means to achieve those goals, and ways or milestones to measure your progress. Then we go through an exercise where the students have to develop five very explicit, specific goals ffor language acquisition, and how they will achieve those goals. For example, one student decided she wanted to learn the names of all the Italian spices, and what dishes they are used in.



Wayne Hall

Global Language School

Gumi, Korea



Holly Dilatush <holly at dilatush.com> wrote:

    Hello Sheryl, all,

    a quick response now, maybe more later --

    But setting written specific goals and then developing a rubric (with input from learner and facilitator/instructor on observed error/challenge patterns) --

    then ensuring that the rubric is understood, then editing paragraphs with a focus on ONLY one rubric item at a time, repeatedly -- 

    challenge the learner to take one paragraph, edit it looking ONLY for ONE of the errors she/he is trying to correct, 

    then have it reviewed by instructor, then edited / perfected again for that ONE error only.

    Then repeat with another paragraph and another and another until learner feels more confident in that skill (this may be a day, days, weeks; varying per learner), then POST a written dated track record of progress, and tackle the next item -- I've noticed in informal research that this method yields positive results, measurable results, and is a motivator, and often rapid incremental progress noted, with fewer backslides than other approaches.

    

    must dash, hope this makes some sense and is helpful in some way -- will try to post/share a sample rubric later,

    Holly 

    On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Sheryl Rogel <srogel at bates.ctc.edu> wrote:

    Greetings.  I am new to this blogging world; thus, I may be not applying

    this form correctly as I am just 'replying to all' via my email.

    I am quite interested in the how teachers advance the language of higher

    level learners of English.  In my regular college prep English courses,

    I work with a few students each quarter at this level, and in the last

    week I have been introduced to two young, 14 year old, Chinese students

    attending a local private school who want to advance their English this

    summer.

    
    
    They have been excellent students in their Chinese schools and their

    thinking shows depth and much of their speaking and writing in our

    language is delightful --- similar to our high school and adult

    students.   However, their writing also reflects a variety of

    misunderstandings about sentence structure and verb and preposition

    choices, as well as a lack of depth in vocabulary, i.e. overuse of words

    such as 'good' - 'nice' - words that appear in primary school readers.

    They are asked to write page+ long assignments and the misunderstandings

    continue to pile up until we must ask,  "Where do we start?"

    Any suggestions focusing on strategies, lessons, and/or ideas that have

    been successful in advancing English competency would be welcomed.

    Thank you.

    
    
    
    Holly (Dilatush)
    
    holly at dilatush.com

    (434) 960.7177 cell phone

    (434) 295.9716 home phone

    [OK to call 7:30 a.m. to 9:30 p.m. EST / GMT -5 time]

    "As soon as we begin to generalize, we fail to have meaningful dialogue." (Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, 2008)

    "Live with intention. Share inside~out smiles, inspire hope, seek awe and nurture in nature."

    www.tales-around-the-world.blogspot.com <http://www.tales-around-the-world.blogspot.com/> 

    www.abavirtual-learningcenter.org <http://www.abavirtual-learningcenter.org/>  

    ----------------------------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------
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EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com




-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
1-604-922-8514 


----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult English Language Learners mailing list
EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage
Email delivered to steve at thelinguist.com




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Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com
1-604-922-8514 
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